OT: new Ford F150 with all aluminum body panels

[eddief]

I know squat about trucks or aluminum, but is it safe to assume doing body work on aluminum would be way different than typical steel? In other words, are body shops gonna know how to repair these new trucks?

[thirdgenbird]

When audi and jaguar first started making full aluminum chassis it was an issue, but its time it became more mainstream. Ford has also been using some alloy panels for a while. My 2005 f150 had an aluminum hood.

[Admiral Ackbar]

"panel beating" has been basically obsolete for nearly 10 years now, if you get a dent/accident damage that isn't repairable by a simple dent pulling chances are its going to be cheaper to replace the panel as a whole.

imo alloy body panels are an excellent idea given how hefty (and uneconomical) modern vehicles have become. but in the end, if you want a vehicle that will be affordable to repair and maintain, don't buy a new car/truck.

[kramnnim]

When audi and jaguar first started making full aluminum chassis it was an issue, but its time it became more mainstream. Ford has also been using some alloy panels for a while. My 2005 f150 had an aluminum hood.

As does my '98 Ranger...

[572cv]

The Citroen DS had an aluminum hood in 1956. It allowed weight reduction, easier lifting and a really long hood, very difficult in steel. The hood, if I am not mistaken, persisted for the entire production run of the DS. The roof panel was composite, but that's another story.

[carpediemracing]

I read the reports on the new F150 with some interest. The biggest factor with aluminum is the cost. It's really cheap to get a knock off steel fender for a popular vehicle, at least after it's been sold for a bit. I think they sell 750k F150s a year so it'll be "popular" even if it drops a bit in sales.

Since actual body work with a hammer and dolly are limited to old school craftsmen I think that body shops will do what they always did - bang it out as best they can and slop on that filler.

There are other differences - welding, paint prep - but I think that there will be enough shops that have that stuff down, although a cyclist I know who works in a body shop admitted to me he can't weld aluminum.

I imagine that comprehensive coverage on those trucks will be a bit higher due to the increased costs of the panels.

I wonder how much the steel of the bodywork contributes to the force absorption of a vehicle in a crash. Aluminum won't absorb as much which means that there will need to be more frame/steel elsewhere.

Saving 700 pounds of weight… that's substantial. That's the reported weight savings on the F150.

I have a 2006 Ford Expedition, and it has an aluminum hood and back gate/hatch. Both are plagued with oxidization prevention issues, causing the paint to bubble and peel off. The steel parts under the vehicle aren't much better so it's not just the aluminum.

I had a 2003 350Z. That had an aluminum hood. No corrosion or other problems with that, at least while I had it, and I haven't heard of any reports of issues with them now. However the hood was so light that any aftermarket hood was much heavier, including the carbon/fiberglass hood I got after a hubcap bounced off my hood at 65 mph or so. I left the tiger claw marks on my hood and traded in the car that way, sold the carbon hood separately.

[martl]

Equipping such a truck with alloy panels is like crafting a ship anchor from carbon fiber.

[Geemalar]

For the most part body panel repairs on aluminum are similar to repairs on steel panels. Small dent repairs are the same, the guy we use to repair steel dents repairs aluminum panels just the same. I deal with this on a daily basis.

Now when it comes to aluminum chassis repair, totally different ball game. Chassis repair requires special training, special tools and equipment, and a dedicated aluminum repair location. Cross contamination is a major concern between steel and aluminum repair processes. Major emphasis is placed on limiting cross contamination by sharing repair equipment between the 2 different processes.

Properly designed and manufactured aluminum components can be just as strong if not stronger than comparable steel components. The mindset that it's light so it can't be as strong couldn't be any further from the truth. I would think that vehicles manufactured with aluminum components need to meet the same safety crash test standards as vehicles without aluminum.

[goonster]

When audi and jaguar first started making full aluminum chassis it was an issue, but its time it became more mainstream.
Aluminum unibody, like on the A8, is still kind of exotic.

[verticaldoug]

I wonder how much the steel of the bodywork contributes to the force absorption of a vehicle in a crash. Aluminum won't absorb as much which means that there will need to be more frame/steel elsewhere.


I think crash absorption is a bit different. Modern vehicles are comprised of crumple zones and passenger safety cells. I 'd expect the new F-150 to be better. I also think the chassis of the new F-150 is light weight steel not aluminum.

[Ralph]

Part of that "up to" 700 lb weight saving comes from weighing truck with the new 2.7 L Turbo 6 cylinder Eco Boost engine. VS standard V6 of 2013 truck. Although while 2.7 6 cylinder cylinder is lighter than V8, you have turbo and heavy exhaust manifolds that add back some weight.

EDIT.....New lighteeight engine is a V6.

[oldpotatoe]

Part of that "up to" 700 lb weight saving comes from weighing truck with the new 2.7 L Turbo 4 cylinder Eco Boost engine. VS standard V6 of 2013 truck. Although while 4 cylinder is lighter than V6, you have turbo and heavy exhaust manifolds that add back some weight.

No diesel? Ought to be...and for you auto-tech guys..why no diesel/hybrids??

[sales guy]

The stuff I have read is the weight savings of up to 800 pounds and costs of up to 1200 more on retail price. BUT, they are saying with every 100 pounds saved, your mileage goes up 1 to 1.5 mpg!

I'm looking at it with interest for my mom who is looking for a new truck to pull a trailer and for running around with. Sound like a great truck if the cost isn't insane. Hopefully it will be here next month for our autoshow.

[verticaldoug]

No diesel? Ought to be...and for you auto-tech guys..why no diesel/hybrids??

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1080282_diesel-hybrids-why-they-dont-make-as-much-sense-as-you-think

This walks you through it.

If you look at the total carbon footprint of a car- production, use and disposal, hybrids and electrics might not save all that much.

[AngryScientist]

how many "truck guys" are going to be thrilled with a 2.7 liter 4-banger though?

[Ralph]

Dodge 1500 light truck gets a 3 L diesel this year. Maybe close to 30 MPG highway rating. Is Motor Trend Truck of the year. Has IRS etc. Nice truck.

Ford may bring over a small diesel soon also.....but generally they don't think diesel is the future. Urea injection, Fed smog controls hurt economy and power. Same engine makes more power and has better fuel economy in Europe. Also.....the Eco Boost small gas engines with direct injection and turbo (with forged pistons and rods, steel cranks, and beefed up blocks) gets about 90% of the fuel economy of diesel, has about 90% of the low RPM TQ, has about the same engine life as a passenger vehicle diesel, uses fuel that costs about 90% of diesel, and an engine that costs way less to build. Anyway....that's their argument.

Me.....as a Ford shareholder......I would like to see a small diesel for the F150 to go along with the incredibly powerful diesel in the F 350 and up Power Stroke trucks.

[thirdgenbird]

Equipping such a truck with alloy panels is like crafting a ship anchor from carbon fiber.

I guess I'm not following. It makes perfect sense to equip a truck like this with aluminum. A 700lb weight reduction should make a very real impact on fuel milage. Even if it is only good for a few miles per gallon, the net effect on oil consumption will be very real. Ford sells boat loads of these trucks and many of them cover lots of fleet miles.

Aluminum unibody, like on the A8, is still kind of exotic.

That it is. Aluminum unibodys force body shops to actually repair aluminum vs bolting on new parts. Wide use of aluminum in something like the f150 should help push it more mainstream. I'm kind of surprised Ford didn't make an alloy push on the new mustang. Maybe they did and it just didn't see the press coverage.

[goonster]

I'm kind of surprised Ford didn't make an alloy push on the new mustang.
Woah, Nellie. Newfangled inde-ma-pendent rear suspension is mindblowing enough for Pony car buyers!

[martl]

I guess I'm not following. It makes perfect sense to equip a truck like this with aluminum.
For my european eye that car is ridiculously oversized. It actually does not take a 3t truck to haul one or two persons and a bit of gear...

If it was half the size it is, it wolud (maybe) make sense to replace some parts with lighter material even if it was more engery to produce the parts in the first place (as aluminium is).

The way it is now, putting alloy parts on that knid of car is like putting lipstick on a 300lbs girl - won't make her a mannequin.

[dawgie]

I drove a Ford Ranger for more than 15 years and it had an aluminum hood. I was initially concerned that it might be more fragile, but it never got a dent and it certainly didn't rust. It was also much easier to raise the hood than if it had been made of steel due to the lighter weight.

[thirdgenbird]

For my european eye that car is ridiculously oversized. It actually does not take a 3t truck to haul one or two persons and a bit of gear...

If it was half the size it is, it wolud (maybe) make sense to replace some parts with lighter material even if it was more engery to produce the parts in the first place (as aluminium is).

The way it is now, putting alloy parts on that knid of car is like putting lipstick on a 300lbs girl - won't make her a mannequin.

Plenty of people are hauling way more than a few people and gear in these trucks. I know a lot of guys that have gotten rid of their 3/4 ton trucks and replaced them with these new half ton trucks. They will often haul four people and a large trailer that smaller trucks couldn't dream of handling safely. I'm all about small pickups, but there is no way I would put one in front of a stock trailer or large farm equipment. I've personally hauled loads that well exceeded what this f150 is capable of.

A 700lb weight reduction is still a 700lb weight reduction and a massive amount of oil barrels saved per year.

Saying aluminum on an f150 is a waste is more like saying the 300lb woman shouldn't bother loosing any weight because its a lost cause.

People using large trucks for the wrong reason is a problem, but the people than need a half ton truck shouldn't suffer because of it.

[AngryScientist]

i have to wonder if in 2014 the US market can still not support a small pick-up truck.

i think it's great that Ford is making headway in increasing fuel economy on their F150 line, and if they applied the same principals to a smaller truck, i would think phenomenal fuel economy would be well within reach for weekend warriors who want to haul their muddy mountain bikes to the trailhead and bring home a few sheets of ply wood or a refrigerator every now and then.

i used to own a small S-10, and it was an incredibly utilitarian truck. little 4-banger was slow, but adequate. that truck saw many many camping, fishing and cycling trips. hauled all sorts of home depot stuff to my house and was really perfect for an adventure crazed home owner.

i get that lots of folks really do need big trucks, but i refuse to believe the market can not support a smaller truck.

[FlashUNC]

i have to wonder if in 2014 the US market can still not support a small pick-up truck.

i think it's great that Ford is making headway in increasing fuel economy on their F150 line, and if they applied the same principals to a smaller truck, i would think phenomenal fuel economy would be well within reach for weekend warriors who want to haul their muddy mountain bikes to the trailhead and bring home a few sheets of ply wood or a refrigerator every now and then.

i used to own a small S-10, and it was an incredibly utilitarian truck. little 4-banger was slow, but adequate. that truck saw many many camping, fishing and cycling trips. hauled all sorts of home depot stuff to my house and was really perfect for an adventure crazed home owner.

i get that lots of folks really do need big trucks, but i refuse to believe the market can not support a smaller truck.

I think the market spoke pretty clearly when the Ranger finally died off.

A lot of these truck buyers want the big truck so they can navigate that pile of leaves and that puddle on the way to their office job.

[GScot]

...

i get that lots of folks really do need big trucks, but i refuse to believe the market can not support a smaller truck.

I think safety standards are the reason we can't have small truck. Ford held out as long as possible ending the Ranger a couple years ago.

[tele]

Chevy is bringing back the Colorado smaller pickup with a diesel soon?

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2015-chevrolet-colorado-photos-and-info-news

[soulspinner]

Dodge 1500 light truck gets a 3 L diesel this year. Maybe close to 30 MPG highway rating. Is Motor Trend Truck of the year. Has IRS etc. Nice truck.

Ford may bring over a small diesel soon also.....but generally they don't think diesel is the future. Urea injection, Fed smog controls hurt economy and power. Same engine makes more power and has better fuel economy in Europe. Also.....the Eco Boost small gas engines with direct injection and turbo (with forged pistons and rods, steel cranks, and beefed up blocks) gets about 90% of the fuel economy of diesel, has about 90% of the low RPM TQ, has about the same engine life as a passenger vehicle diesel, uses fuel that costs about 90% of diesel, and an engine that costs way less to build. Anyway....that's their argument.

Me.....as a Ford shareholder......I would like to see a small diesel for the F150 to go along with the incredibly powerful diesel in the F 350 and up Power Stroke trucks.

The eco boost will get squat next to any small high torque diesel pulling. Its all about pulling.

[Anarchist]

I think it's really impressive that Ford are "innovating" something that Land Rover started doing in 1948.

[bikinchris]

The USPS has had aluminum skinned vehicles for decades. But this is apparently a new alloy or something is being done differently than before.
I would also like to see the Ranger return with a small turbo diesel. I remember the last TD Ranger making well above 35mpg. That was in the 80's

[thirdgenbird]

Here is an interesting article for those interested.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-shows/2014-detroit-auto-show/2015-ford-f-150-baja-1000-prototype-ford-snuck-in

It looks like the 700lb weight savings if from the use of aluminum and the high strength steel frame.

[Ralph]

The eco boost will get squat next to any small high torque diesel pulling. Its all about pulling.

The 2.7 Ecoboost is designed for economy. But the 3.5 V6 gas Eco Boost makes 420 Ft LBs TQ at 2500 RPM. Considering cost of fuel, cost of engine, etc....that compares very well with small diesel for much lower cost.

[stuckey]

I know it may be a surprise to everyone here... I am a bodyman and we repair a lot of stuff still. It may not be as much as it was 15 years ago, but the majority of stuff on the shop floor right now is repair not replacement.
Using aluminum is going to create a mess when it comes to repairs. I worked at a few high end shops and the buy in was about $250,000 to set the shop up to do structural aluminum repairs. The small guys are not going to be able to afford this and the big guys will be able to charge more driving the insurance rates up.

[oldguy00]

Does anyone here use a F150 (Supercrew) or other pickup truck as a family travel vehicle?
And what about bikes? i know you can setup a fork mount type rack in the back, but what if you prefer to keep everything sealed from weather, do you just buy one of the flat tops to fit over the back, and lay the bikes down?

I'm in Atlantic Canada, so of course the next decision would be 4x2 or 4x4..... :)

[fiataccompli]

Land Rovers have had aluminum body panels for decades...or, forever, basically

[GScot]

Does anyone here use a F150 (Supercrew) or other pickup truck as a family travel vehicle?
And what about bikes? i know you can setup a fork mount type rack in the back, but what if you prefer to keep everything sealed from weather, do you just buy one of the flat tops to fit over the back, and lay the bikes down?

I'm in Atlantic Canada, so of course the next decision would be 4x2 or 4x4..... :)

We had one for a company car from 2010 - 2013. Lots of travel. It was an FX2 supercrew with the really short bed. Bed storage works the same as any truck but it is a tiny bed, I mounted fork towers on either side as close as possible to the front making the handlebars dictate the width to preserve space as much as possible. In the front with the seats folded up just enough room to stagger them side by side using fork towers on a piece of plywood. That allowed room for luggage on the opposite side. Last long trip I added stands for the rear dropouts to my plywood. With both wheels off there is a lot of space left in the rear of the cab. Oh it was a really comfortable travel vehicle too.

[oldguy00]

We had one for a company car from 2010 - 2013. Lots of travel. It was an FX2 supercrew with the really short bed. Bed storage works the same as any truck but it is a tiny bed, I mounted fork towers on either side as close as possible to the front making the handlebars dictate the width to preserve space as much as possible. In the front with the seats folded up just enough room to stagger them side by side using fork towers on a piece of plywood. That allowed room for luggage on the opposite side. Last long trip I added stands for the rear dropouts to my plywood. With both wheels off there is a lot of space left in the rear of the cab. Oh it was a really comfortable travel vehicle too.

Thx. What part of the continent are you in? Just wondering if you drove it in harsh winters, and ever felt the need to have 4x4 (FX4)...

[AngryScientist]

to answer the 4x4 vs 4x2 discussion, i drove (granted, much lighter vehicle) a 2WD s-10 for a long, long time, through northeast winters, etc. IMO, 2wd pickup trucks are pretty dangerous in snow conditions. there is no weight (unless you're loaded) over the rear axle and the rear struggles to get traction all the darn time. i used snow chains on the rear wheels for ski trips with the truck and had big, knobby tires in the rear to help with the situation, and of course i got through all right, but for a reasonable adult who wants to be reasonably safe in harsh winter driving, 4wd is the only way to go in Canada IMO.

[ceolwulf]

I've had a couple of 2WD trucks, the Nissan Hardbody was livable (barely) in snow, the long box Dakota was profoundly useless. If you have your choice of what to buy anyway and if you expect to see any snow/ice there's no reason to go 2WD.

(There's about a two degree, if that, slope coming out of our shop parking lot. The Dakota got stuck there one icy day. Zero progress possible. Of course people behind me waiting to go home. They had to push me to continue. Very embarrassing)

[GScot]

Thx. What part of the continent are you in? Just wondering if you drove it in harsh winters, and ever felt the need to have 4x4 (FX4)...

In the PHX area. Trips were to TX, OK, and NV/ID. While one could argue that 4 wheel drive could be useful if you ever have to get out of the valley in Winter we didn't see justification for the added expense.

And for some extra info it was two trucks, the first a 2010 with a 5.4. It could get 17-18 with me driving it on the interstate and rolling 80 or so. Typical in town would be 14. It was my partner's primary vehicle most of the time and he drove like hell so maybe 12 mpg for him. The second was a 2012 ecoboost. I got 21 or 22 on the highway and 17 when I had it in town. Partner never got more than 15 mpg with it because if you keep your foot on the floor it can burn plenty of fuel.

[oldguy00]

to answer the 4x4 vs 4x2 discussion, i drove (granted, much lighter vehicle) a 2WD s-10 for a long, long time, through northeast winters, etc. IMO, 2wd pickup trucks are pretty dangerous in snow conditions. there is no weight (unless you're loaded) over the rear axle and the rear struggles to get traction all the darn time. i used snow chains on the rear wheels for ski trips with the truck and had big, knobby tires in the rear to help with the situation, and of course i got through all right, but for a reasonable adult who wants to be reasonably safe in harsh winter driving, 4wd is the only way to go in Canada IMO.

Hadn't thought about that, tha lack of weight in the back. I've made due the past winter with a 2wd Honda CRV, and just assumed a 2wd F150 would be much better.

[Ralph]

how many "truck guys" are going to be thrilled with a 2.7 liter 4-banger though?

I was mistaken above and corrected it. New engine is turbo 2.7 V6. More TQ than V8. Want more....use 3.5 Turbo.

[Ralph]

Ford may have to being a new small diesel to market for competitive reasons since Dodge has one now.

But main reason they haven't is from an engineering reason. Benefit not worth the extra $3-4,000 cost per engine. I know you can't convince a diesel enthusiast of this, but if you take the best characteristics of a small diesel engine, direct injection and turbo's, and add that to a small beefed up gas engine, you get 80-90% of the low RPM TQ of a diesel, almost same real world economy considering fuel cost, and gas engine is much cheaper to build and maintain over it's life. And engine life is about the same. Small passenger car diesels with aluminum heads and blocks, forged pistons and rods, don't last much longer than the gas versions. It's difficult to make a case for a small diesel on this side of the pond......from a dollars and cents point of view. Ford engineers know this. They are not dummies and have several terrific diesel engines they could import if they wish.

[soulspinner]

Dodge 1500 light truck gets a 3 L diesel this year. Maybe close to 30 MPG highway rating. Is Motor Trend Truck of the year. Has IRS etc. Nice truck.

Ford may bring over a small diesel soon also.....but generally they don't think diesel is the future. Urea injection, Fed smog controls hurt economy and power. Same engine makes more power and has better fuel economy in Europe. Also.....the Eco Boost small gas engines with direct injection and turbo (with forged pistons and rods, steel cranks, and beefed up blocks) gets about 90% of the fuel economy of diesel, has about 90% of the low RPM TQ, has about the same engine life as a passenger vehicle diesel, uses fuel that costs about 90% of diesel, and an engine that costs way less to build. Anyway....that's their argument.

Me.....as a Ford shareholder......I would like to see a small diesel for the F150 to go along with the incredibly powerful diesel in the F 350 and up Power Stroke trucks.

Want the new Colorado with the small diesel.....

[mtb_frk]

I have a screw fx4 long box. It is a big truck, but I tow a 27' camper with it. Anyways, I used 4 hi quite a bit last winter, with about 300lbs of weight in the back. Never had a issue with lack of traction. The winter was pretty harsh in michigan last year.

I can fit my bike inside the cab with the front wheel off pretty easily. I have some large bikes so I am sure most any normal sized bike will fit fine. I also have the yakima biker bar in the bed. I like it because it locks to the truck, but I can't really get a bed cover with it on. That is the one down side I have found with it so far. Yakima is supposed to be coming out with mounts for the roof "late summer" they said, mine is a 2013 btw.

It really is a roomy vehicle but I miss having a SUV for the inside storage space, but living out in the middle of no where it is nice having a truck to haul stuff around in the back that I wouldn't want inside a SUV.

[Fatty]

As does my '98 Ranger...

Yep. Sold my '98 Ranger, that I purchased new, last summer. The hood was the only thing that had not succumbed to rust.

[pbarry]

how many "truck guys" are going to be thrilled with a 2.7 liter 4-banger though?

The many Tacoma buyers who are into their 200-300k miles...

[malbecman]

Fortune Mag recently had a great article that touched on many of the aspects raised in this thread....weight savings, their plans to train repair shops, durability, etc. The main point is that this is a BIG gamble for Ford and they have been doing their homework...keep in mind the F series alone, if sold thru a separate company, would be in the top 100 of the Fortune 500 biggest companies.

http://fortune.com/2014/07/24/f-150-fords-epic-gamble/

[pbarry]

Want the new Colorado with the small diesel.....

Right? Me too, until I priced it out on the Chevy website. It's even more than the Ram 1500 diesel w/4x4. The math doesn't work if you compare to a Tacoma 4x4, (with the 2.7 gasser), with diesel mpg fuel savings factored into the overall cost for the Dodge and Chevy.

OTOH, if you are towing, diesel of any flavor is the obvious choice.

[Ralph]

This thread got started a long time ago. Ford announced a new 2.7 Eco Boost small engine, but didn't say how many cyclinders at that time. Since I knew Toyota had a 2.7 4 cyclinder, I assumed Ford would do same with turbo.

I assumed wrong. The new small 2.7 turbo is a V6. With TQ about equal to a 5.0 V8. At a much lower RPM than the V8. Driving feel and over all fuel economy should be similar to a small diesel. However....with lower maintenance cost and engine cost of a gas engine. The small 3.0 diesel in the Ram 1500 adds a lot of initial cost.

[paredown]

The many Tacoma buyers who are into their 200-300k miles...

Tacos have succumbed to bloat though--my 2003 Tundra (Toyo's 'full size' that was actually a stretched Taco) is about the size of the current generation Taco--while the new Tundra is frickin' huge, since they are competing with the big boys in the full-sized market.

While I appreciate the argument that some people need full size and big motors, the escalation in size, appointments and prices in full-sized trucks in the last decade has been nothing short of astonishing--no reasonable person can convince me that it is not a gigantic, testosterone -fueled pissing contest.

[ntb1001]

Does anyone here use a F150 (Supercrew) or other pickup truck as a family travel vehicle?
And what about bikes? i know you can setup a fork mount type rack in the back, but what if you prefer to keep everything sealed from weather, do you just buy one of the flat tops to fit over the back, and lay the bikes down?

I'm in Atlantic Canada, so of course the next decision would be 4x2 or 4x4..... :)

I do...I have a 2010 F150 FX4.
I don't need a truck for business....just makes life easier with 4 kids and sports.
Hockey bags are big...and one kid is a goalie which is even worse.
As far as cycling. .the truck us great for going to races, I have a fork mount Thule in the bed and I have an expansion bar at the other end that I strap the rear wheels to. The only thing is that it's all open...but bikes get wet when you ride them, so what's the difference?
I am interested in the aluminum truck coming out because the gas is the only regret of owning a big truck.

[Mr. Squirrel]

pick up trucks make me dance in the road like a rolling nut. nuk nuk nuk!

mr. squirrel

[goonster]

Right? Me too, until I priced it out on the Chevy website.
How did you do this? I cannot find a Colorado configurator on the Chevy website, only preproduction info . . .

[pbarry]

It's been a month or two---I did the "build your own" thing on the Ram website and it came in about $34k with the diesel engine, single cab, 4x4, and the lowest trim package with diesel available.

For the Chevy, you are correct, I misspoke: Scant info available on the website. I poured over advance press, and found a pre-review that suggested around $35k for a Colorado crew cab, 4x4, and diesel. If the mpg is in the low to mid 30's, I'd consider it, but the base Tacoma is still hard to beat imo.

[oldguy00]

So, what are folks thoughts on the v6 ecoboost in the 2014's?
I test drove one, very smooth, but I am reading a lot of negative reviews about them. No better mileage, shuddering and loss of power, much higher revs in cold weather, etc. Thinking that if I get an FX4, may go with the V8...

[commonguy001]

So, what are folks thoughts on the v6 ecoboost in the 2014's?
I test drove one, very smooth, but I am reading a lot of negative reviews about them. No better mileage, shuddering and loss of power, much higher revs in cold weather, etc. Thinking that if I get an FX4, may go with the V8...

I've had the EccoB 3.5 for two years in my 2012 F150 and 25k miles later have had no issues.
MPG is not horrible by full size truck standards. Just got back from a 2900 mile trip and averaged 19 mpg (running 75-80 mph most of the way) which isn't earth shattering but I don't think I would have gotten that with the V8. MPG does drop a little when it's super cold out but what car doesn't loose MPG when it's 20 below. I've made trips to Superior in Dec and Jan and averaged 20 mpg. It doesn't rev any higher that I've noticed and I'm in MN where winters have been lasting a LONG time.

Regarding shuddering - that's transmission related and has to do with it locking up in higher gears at very low RPM. I've felt it every once in a while but it's not an every day or even every month occurrence in my case. It wouldn't be a deciding factor for me on what engine to get.

I've never had the loss in power where the turbo pops the safety valve and just stops working. I have a feeling that this mainly happens when people have modded their trucks or added "performance" chips which bump the boost. I bought mine without any plans on messing with it and it's been virtually flawless. 5k of my miles were towing a 3800 pound camper and while you knew it was there it wasn't a deciding factor in how I drove it as it just didn't matter that much. Now with a 6500 pound camper I notice it more but it's still not horrible by any means and I've never had the turbo pop.

I saw you'd asked about carrying bikes and I use a Saris Traps Track board in the bed of the truck under the ARE fiberglass cap (not the flat cap but a normal topper cap). Using a fork mount and wheel mount for each bike I can easily fit two on one traps track and they're secure and out of the weather. Works really well, I'd buy the same set up again.

oh and go 4x4! I've driven mine up some pretty crazy snowy and icy rutted two track and with everything locked out and in low it just motored up, just as well as the Land Cruiser I sold when I got this.

[11.4]

pick up trucks make me dance in the road like a rolling nut. nuk nuk nuk!

mr. squirrel

Most informative post so far!

Confession time. I drive an F350 crew cab long bed 4x4 diesel. I get 24 mpg on the highway and the standard Ford chip is sufficiently kinky that it rewards me with 2 mpg extra for towing a 8500 lb racing sailboat. It's an adult truck. A manly truck. The truck alone is the perfect cure for erectile dysfunction. It's the definition of priapism. I can park your Mini Cooper in the bed. I can park on top of your Mini Cooper and not scratch your roof (and I am not lifted). The only things this truck misses are M134 miniguns on each side of the hood and rear fender flaps with chrome Victoria Pendleton silhouettes.

For bike races I can rack a dozen bikes in the bed with BikeTote racks, or carry almost two dozen wheels and a couple photographers and officials as a follow vehicle at a race. In town I simply roll a road and a track bike into the back seat area with the seats flipped up -- it's wide enough and deep enough to fit both bikes plus a wheeled duffle with my track stuff. And that's inside the cab. When I'm dodging puddles and bouncing over Dobbs dots, where I really need the 4x4, it's a godsend. With a Linex coating in the bed plus an ultra deep ultra wide Protech toolbox in the rear, I have about 500 lbs to start with in the rear and it handles really nicely, thank you. Aluminum panels when I add two hundred pounds of bed coating back onto the truck? No thank you. Are you guys racing on aluminum bikes any more? Get real. Steel is real.

I do actually tow heavy loads with it and carry equipment in the box and in the back seat area (with the supplemental load floor installed) that take it right up to the rated limit on the vehicle, and beyond. I also work SAR and was able to get in and out of the 530 mudslide at Oso when even the 4x4 guys couldn't.

I'd recommend 4x4. It has a slight penalty on mileage and service cost but when it comes to sale, everyone seems to want it. I'd recommend the long bed, even with a crew cab; if you need a pickup you should need all the length that God gave you (I'm talking about the box, Mr. Squirrel). Modern trucks turn really well and once you learn to use them, and get the little ultrasound backup detectors (and even better, a rear view camera), you can slide into a parking space with 6 inches to spare. It's a skill. The diesel is great, and even essential for what I do. In Oregon where you have to let the clown at the station pump your gas, I always have to get out and double check anyway because the clowns have been known to pump gasoline into a diesel tank. Same worry even if I were to loan the truck (which I would never do -- it's my manhood and it doesn't part from me any more than my ... well, you know ... does). Get your truck with a block heater and roof lights -- trust me, that's how you attract the girls.

And, by the way, I'm moving to Texas.

[oldguy00]

I've had the EccoB 3.5 for two years in my 2012 F150 and 25k miles later have had no issues......

Thanks for the info, I really appreciate it. That said, as nice as the engine felt on the test drive, when I see threads like the following one, on a very active F150 forum, with 300+ pages of replies to the one thread, it gives me serious concerns about the engine. My luck, I'd get a bad one....

http://www.f150forum.com/f38/2011-55-60mph-5-0-shuddering-ecoboost-engine-miss-loss-power-possible-fixes-128636/index301/

[Ralph]

You could have most of those same problems on any V8 engine truck. Electronics, ECU, sensors, 4WD lock up and out, etc. BTW....That was a 2011 truck....one made a good while ago. And you don't know it's history...if it was modified, etc. Enthusiasts on a truck forum tend to like to turn the boost up. Aftermarket tuning, etc.

I have a good friend with a 2014 Lariat F150 2WD with new 5.0 engine, not sure of the axle ratio, and a friend with a 2013 3.5 Ecoboost. Neither report any problems at all. The EcoBoost 3.5 is stronger pulling, accelerates faster, and with careful driving, gets better fuel economy than the 5.0. though maybe not enough better to offset the extra cost over the 5.0. If working both hard, they get similar mileage. My friend reports to get the better economy of the 3.5 Ecoboost, you have to drive it with a careful foot. But it can get better fuel economy.

For light duty use, as you know, the new F150 with the new alloy Alcoa body panels, a 2.7 V6 Eco Boost is being offered, I believe one notch above base 3.5 non turbo. I imagine it will offer similar Tq numbers to a small V8, and have the capability of getting better fuel economy, but I bet same deal applies,....only if you know how to drive for better economy.

If I were getting a 3rd vehicle for around our home use, just light duty stuff, light towing, hauling bicycles, going to Home Depot, etc, I think I would be satisfied with the 3.5 non turbo V6. But I would be getting a plainer lighter model....Xl, XLT, etc, 2WD, maybe Extended cab, so a somewhat lighter truck especially with the new aluminum panels. For all of you who think the aluminum panels of this truck are like anything currently used in Jags and Audi's..... it's not. Much tougher.

I have driven the current model F150 in a plain version with the 3.7 V6 (non turbo 305 HP and I believe 280 ft lbs tq....not offered in 2015), and it's more than adequate for my use. My only concern with the EcoBoost engines, after observing them in Focus, Fusions, Escapes, Edge's. Explorers, SHO Taurus, Flex, Lincolns, F150's etc.....is I'm not sure they save enough fuel in F150 to warrant their extra expense. Otherwise they are tough engines.

[wallymann]

Hadn't thought about that, tha lack of weight in the back. I've made due the past winter with a 2wd Honda CRV, and just assumed a 2wd F150 would be much better.

2WD CRV drives the front wheels where the weight is.

2WD F150 drives the rear wheels where the weight is *not*.

[gasman]

When audi and jaguar first started making full aluminum chassis it was an issue, but its time it became more mainstream. Ford has also been using some alloy panels for a while. My 2005 f150 had an aluminum hood.

Most informative post so far!

Confession time. I drive an F350 crew cab long bed 4x4 diesel. I get 24 mpg on the highway and the standard Ford chip is sufficiently kinky that it rewards me with 2 mpg extra for towing a 8500 lb racing sailboat. It's an adult truck. A manly truck. The truck alone is the perfect cure for erectile dysfunction. It's the definition of priapism. I can park your Mini Cooper in the bed. I can park on top of your Mini Cooper and not scratch your roof (and I am not lifted). The only things this truck misses are M134 miniguns on each side of the hood and rear fender flaps with chrome Victoria Pendleton silhouettes.

For bike races I can rack a dozen bikes in the bed with BikeTote racks, or carry almost two dozen wheels and a couple photographers and officials as a follow vehicle at a race. In town I simply roll a road and a track bike into the back seat area with the seats flipped up -- it's wide enough and deep enough to fit both bikes plus a wheeled duffle with my track stuff. And that's inside the cab. When I'm dodging puddles and bouncing over Dobbs dots, where I really need the 4x4, it's a godsend. With a Linex coating in the bed plus an ultra deep ultra wide Protech toolbox in the rear, I have about 500 lbs to start with in the rear and it handles really nicely, thank you. Aluminum panels when I add two hundred pounds of bed coating back onto the truck? No thank you. Are you guys racing on aluminum bikes any more? Get real. Steel is real.

I do actually tow heavy loads with it and carry equipment in the box and in the back seat area (with the supplemental load floor installed) that take it right up to the rated limit on the vehicle, and beyond. I also work SAR and was able to get in and out of the 530 mudslide at Oso when even the 4x4 guys couldn't.

I'd recommend 4x4. It has a slight penalty on mileage and service cost but when it comes to sale, everyone seems to want it. I'd recommend the long bed, even with a crew cab; if you need a pickup you should need all the length that God gave you (I'm talking about the box, Mr. Squirrel). Modern trucks turn really well and once you learn to use them, and get the little ultrasound backup detectors (and even better, a rear view camera), you can slide into a parking space with 6 inches to spare. It's a skill. The diesel is great, and even essential for what I do. In Oregon where you have to let the clown at the station pump your gas, I always have to get out and double check anyway because the clowns have been known to pump gasoline into a diesel tank. Same worry even if I were to loan the truck (which I would never do -- it's my manhood and it doesn't part from me any more than my ... well, you know ... does). Get your truck with a block heater and roof lights -- trust me, that's how you attract the girls.

And, by the way, I'm moving to Texas.

Good info and you will fit right in with that truck in Texas.

[oldguy00]

Lets see if we can -really- get a good debate going.... :)

Compared to say a 4x4 F4X, has anyone compared it to a 4x4 RAM Sport Crew?
Sat in a new one the other day, and gotta say, the interior in the RAM is pretty damn nice.

[thirdgenbird]

Lets see if we can -really- get a good debate going.... :)

Compared to say a 4x4 F4X, has anyone compared it to a 4x4 RAM Sport Crew?
Sat in a new one the other day, and gotta say, the interior in the RAM is pretty damn nice.

I had a ram as a rental. The interior had come a long ways but i still didn't like it as much as the outgoing f150.

I didn't find the transmission dial/shifter very pleasant either. It would be fine in a sedan, but after two weeks, I still didn't like it for work. It want as "eyes free" when backing up and readjusting to a dock or trailer. Maybe after more time it would be fine. We (two week work event) actually had an ecoboost f150 and a v8 ram at the same time. I think everyone that drove both of them perfered the ford.

[oldguy00]

I had a ram as a rental. The interior had come a long ways but i still didn't like it as much as the outgoing f150.

I didn't find the transmission dial/shifter very pleasant either. It would be fine in a sedan, but after two weeks, I still didn't like it for work. It want as "eyes free" when backing up and readjusting to a dock or trailer. Maybe after more time it would be fine. We (two week work event) actually had an ecoboost f150 and a v8 ram at the same time. I think everyone that drove both of them perfered the ford.

Was it a 'sport' model RAM 1500 you were in? Interesting you didn't like the dial shifter. When I first saw it, I thought it was pretty cool, but if I had the choice, I think I'd rather have the shifter in the center too.

I liked the Ford ecoboost too, but have serious concerns over the reliability, especially since I tend to put a lot of miles on my cars. If I go with the Ford, it will likely be an FX4 with the V8.

[thirdgenbird]

It wasn't a sport. I think it was an slt. Either way, it won't make a big impact on my option of the two. The differences are likely primarily in cosmetic details.

Like I said, a dial shifter makes pefect sense in a car. It's nice, simple, easy to use, and out of the way. A truck is another story. When I'm backing up to something, I want be be able to shift without looking, ideally with a gloved hand. For this, the dial didn't work for me. It's di2 vs mechanical campy in both ergonomics and feedback. I wouldn't ever want to do snow removal with a dial shifter.

[likebikes]

Ford Bet on Aluminum Trucks, but Is Still Looking for Payoff

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/01/business/ford-f150-aluminum-trucks.html

[pasadena]

Big trucks: RAM wins for daily driving with the nice interior and coil rear springs.
New Sierra -meh. Interior is typical playskool plasticy, no improvement. bit of aluminum. They should have put the Tahoe interior in it and called it good. The rest is basically unchanged which may be good or bad. If I was a hardcore GM guy, I would probably like it.

I've always liked the F150 but they really took reliability off the table. These are not the "lifetime" trucks or simple pickup like the square bodies or even the last steel body ones.

Mid-size: Ford Ranger will be coming but only one engine choice and limited configurations
It's already pretty popular in Australia. Nice looking truck, though most of those are diesel.

Nissan Frontier replacement is coming (also already being sold in Australia)

GM diesel sounds good but man, they are pricey and you can get a new GMC fullsize for thousands less $, which is what many end up doing.

Tacos are great but their reliability has fallen off the cliff. I don't know the reason.
I still like the Taco for midsize.

If I were buying today:
Used RAM Cummins 12v or 24v
FX4 Screw V8 steelbody and pray my plugs dont lauch through the hood
Tacoma
GMC Canyon V6

[AngryScientist]

Big trucks: RAM wins for daily driving with the nice interior and coil rear springs.
New Sierra -meh. Interior is typical playskool plasticy, no improvement. bit of aluminum. They should have put the Tahoe interior in it and called it good. The rest is basically unchanged which may be good or bad. If I was a hardcore GM guy, I would probably like it.

I've always liked the F150 but they really took reliability off the table. These are not the "lifetime" trucks or simple pickup like the square bodies or even the last steel body ones.

Mid-size: Ford Ranger will be coming but only one engine choice and limited configurations
It's already pretty popular in Australia. Nice looking truck, though most of those are diesel.

Nissan Frontier replacement is coming (also already being sold in Australia)

GM diesel sounds good but man, they are pricey and you can get a new GMC fullsize for thousands less $, which is what many end up doing.

Tacos are great but their reliability has fallen off the cliff. I don't know the reason.
I still like the Taco for midsize.

If I were buying today:
Used RAM Cummins 12v or 24v
FX4 Screw V8 steelbody and pray my plugs dont lauch through the hood
Tacoma
GMC Canyon V6

i'm anxiously awaiting this to hit the market. should be next year i think...

https://hips.hearstapps.com/roa.h-cdn.co/assets/16/14/landscape-1441123151-828542cv2005-001-e1441037373948.jpg

[54ny77]

The answer is very simple: they started making them stateside.

Meanwhile, I wouldn't doubt my old '85 w/the 22R is still going.


Tacos are great but their reliability has fallen off the cliff. I don't know the reason.

[goonster]

Tacos are great but their reliability has fallen off the cliff. I don't know the reason.

Lean manufacturing.

[ripvanrando]

Big trucks: RAM wins for daily driving with the nice interior and coil rear springs.
New Sierra -meh. Interior is typical playskool plasticy, no improvement. bit of aluminum. They should have put the Tahoe interior in it and called it good. The rest is basically unchanged which may be good or bad. If I was a hardcore GM guy, I would probably like it.

I've always liked the F150 but they really took reliability off the table. These are not the "lifetime" trucks or simple pickup like the square bodies or even the last steel body ones.

Mid-size: Ford Ranger will be coming but only one engine choice and limited configurations
It's already pretty popular in Australia. Nice looking truck, though most of those are diesel.

Nissan Frontier replacement is coming (also already being sold in Australia)

GM diesel sounds good but man, they are pricey and you can get a new GMC fullsize for thousands less $, which is what many end up doing.

Tacos are great but their reliability has fallen off the cliff. I don't know the reason.
I still like the Taco for midsize.

If I were buying today:
Used RAM Cummins 12v or 24v
FX4 Screw V8 steelbody and pray my plugs dont lauch through the hood
Tacoma
GMC Canyon V6

I like my 2016 F350 6.7 PowerStroke with 1200 pound-feet and 650 HP, but the interior and sound proofing are the best parts. I did not like the 2017 F350 because the seats were narrow and from the F150, so, I bought a leftover. Drove the F150 aluminum body. Felt like a car. Very anemic. Did not like the seats.

2014 Tundra was also nice.

[pasadena]

The answer is very simple: they started making them stateside.

Meanwhile, I wouldn't doubt my old '85 w/the 22R is still going.

They've been domestic for a while.

22R is a good motor. Underpowered in 85, but it's simple and solid. 84 is a good offroading platform

[pasadena]

that's a big truck!

If I needed something like that, I would be cheap and build up a 4BT or 6BT on an old square F150 or Powerwagon
But it would never have the refinement or comfort of
'16...


I like my 2016 F350 6.7 PowerStroke with 1200 pound-feet and 650 HP, but the interior and sound proofing are the best parts. I did not like the 2017 F350 because the seats were narrow and from the F150, so, I bought a leftover. Drove the F150 aluminum body. Felt like a car. Very anemic. Did not like the seats.

2014 Tundra was also nice.

[commonguy001]

I like my 2016 F350 6.7 PowerStroke with 1200 pound-feet and 650 HP, but the interior and sound proofing are the best parts. I did not like the 2017 F350 because the seats were narrow and from the F150, so, I bought a leftover. Drove the F150 aluminum body. Felt like a car. Very anemic. Did not like the seats.


My understanding is the whole cab on the super duty is now the same as the F150 cab.

[Mikej]

The answer is very simple: they started making them stateside.

Meanwhile, I wouldn't doubt my old '85 w/the 22R is still going.

Yeah, in 1991 -

[AngryScientist]

They've been domestic for a while.

22R is a good motor. Underpowered in 85, but it's simple and solid. 84 is a good offroading platform

the 22R is SO much simpler a motor than anything found in a modern truck. there is simply a lot less to go wrong. the never ending quest to build vehicles with more power and greater fuel economy hasnt done any favors to reliability and ease of maintenance (with a few notable exceptions).

forced induction, direct injection, variable valve timing - these are all good technologies, but they increase the complexity of the engine tremendously, provide plenty of new opportunities for failure, and make it a whole lot more prohibitive to get the engine fixed on the trailside with a reasonably equipped toolbox...

[NHAero]

I'm waiting to see who makes the jump to hybrid and plug-in hybrid for pick-ups. We've now got eight EVs at the design/build company I work at, but the field guys are mostly driving Tacomas. The company has an incentive for EVs and PHEVs but no good options yet for light pickups.

[djg21]

I'm waiting to see who makes the jump to hybrid and plug-in hybrid for pick-ups. We've now got eight EVs at the design/build company I work at, but the field guys are mostly driving Tacomas. The company has an incentive for EVs and PHEVs but no good options yet for light pickups.

I have a Taco DCSB going on 4 years. It’s a nice truck, but for a small truck, the fuel efficiency is not good. I get 15-16 mpg if I’m lucky; granted, I drive fast. I was just looking at F-150s. It would be nice to have a better appointed interior and things like leather seats and seat heaters, etc. Even with a V-8, the fuel efficiency of the F-150 looks to be better. And I want a full bed that bikes fit into next time.

[Ralph]

If I were getting a new F 150, and not towing much, would get the newer 2.7 L Eco Boost engine. TQ almost identical to the 5.0 V8 at a lower RPM. Much better light throttle fuel economy than 5.0 V8. Even the much stronger (considerably stronger than the V8) 3.5 Eco Boost uses less fuel at light use than V8.

However.....work a Eco Boost V6 hard.....and they use almost same amount of fuel as a V8. X amount of fuel to do X amount of work.

[p nut]

.

I've always liked the F150 but they really took reliability off the table. These are not the "lifetime" trucks or simple pickup like the square bodies or even the last steel body ones.



How so? Perhaps the ecoboost had some issues at the beginning, but they seem to be quite reliable. People don't bat an eye at TURBO diesels being able to go the distance. Remember, the Ecoboost blocks are made of CGI--same as diesels. Turbo's are cooled the same way--liquid. Torque down low is incredible, as well as the overall power.

If that's not to your taste, then you also have a V8 or N/A V6 as options as well. If I were buying another full-size truck today, I would get an F150 without hesitation. Sierra would be a contender, but I like the a la carte options on the F150 better. The Ram just has too many QC issues. Rear coils are great, but it robs payload.

[djg21]

If I were getting a new F 150, and not towing much, would get the newer 2.7 L Eco Boost engine. TQ almost identical to the 5.0 V8 at a lower RPM. Much better light throttle fuel economy than 5.0 V8. Even the much stronger (considerably stronger than the V8) 3.5 Eco Boost uses less fuel at light use than V8.

However.....work a Eco Boost V6 hard.....and they use almost same amount of fuel as a V8. X amount of fuel to do X amount of work.

A friend of mine has had both. His real world experience was that the V-8 got the same fuel economy as the 3.5, but had a lower resale because everyone wanted the V-8. I’d certainly consider a V-6 for my needs if the pricing were to my advantage. On paper, the fuel economy is more to my liking. I rarely trailer anything. I’ll put a good cap on the bed and carry bikes, kayaks, etc.

If Ford made a decent turbo diesel, I’d consider it, but the diesel engine available looks to be fairly anemic.

[pasadena]

How so? Perhaps the ecoboost had some issues at the beginning, but they seem to be quite reliable. People don't bat an eye at TURBO diesels being able to go the distance. Remember, the Ecoboost blocks are made of CGI--same as diesels. Turbo's are cooled the same way--liquid. Torque down low is incredible, as well as the overall power.

If that's not to your taste, then you also have a V8 or N/A V6 as options as well. If I were buying another full-size truck today, I would get an F150 without hesitation. Sierra would be a contender, but I like the a la carte options on the F150 better. The Ram just has too many QC issues. Rear coils are great, but it robs payload.

I believe the Ecoboost doesn't use a AWIC, it uses a FMIC air/air

Ford just doesn't make it easy on the new trucks to work on, and they make it expensive to repair. At least GM makes it easy and cheap.
But I'm not getting into defending one or the other.

I'm a Toyota truck guy, so all the engineering of the domestic trucks seems dumb to me.:p

I'll take a 4BT turbo over any of that because it is reliable. It's a fully mechanical motor and will literally last forever. If I'm going the diesel route, there is a world of difference between gas turbo motors and that.

New fullsize truck- I like the Ram but probably end up with the Tundra 5.7 because at the end of the day, I would be keeping it for at least a decade.

[HenryA]

I’ve had my F150 with 5.0 L V8 for a bit over a year now. Its a great truck. As pleasant to ride in as a fine car and very capable of hauling or towing a load. If I had to I’d buy another one, V8 again most likely. It gets pretty great gas mileage - about 18 in local rural/suburban highway driving and 19-20 driven gently on the interstate at 70 mph.

[goonster]

I believe the Ecoboost doesn't use a AWIC, it uses a FMIC air/air
He was talking about cooling of the turbocharges themselves, not intake air.

The Ecoboost circulates coolant through the turbo bearing assembly.