Pegoretti Falz Fork Clearance

[wooly]

I've always heard that the Falz fork was tight with tires larger than 23's. I slapped some Vittoria 25's on my H+ Son Archetypes and they measure 27mm. The tire spins freely but MAN it's tight. I can barely see any space between the tire and the campy record brake calipers. Could more clearance be gained by changing the brakes? Is this something to worry about? The wheel spins just fine. But if anything gets caught in the tire it could get jammed. Interestingly, the clearance on the rear of the fork is just fine. It's just the brakes that are causing the problem. Thoughts?

Thanks!

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-FsBEWkWg8-Y/UsMyaK8HfkI/AAAAAAAAA-g/KZReR-VmGXc/w583-h777-no/photo.JPG

[akelman]

In order to get clearance on my Luigino for 25 mm tires mounted on 23 mm rims, I needed to run a Campy skeleton rear caliper up front (the single-pivot caliper has much more clearance than the dual-pivot, and also works perfectly well). There were people here who insisted that builder error was to blame for the limited clearance, but I'm pretty sure the truth is that Dario builds race bikes, and he expects the people riding them to run skinny tires (and most likely tubs).

[akelman]

To be clear, my point was that this is how Dario seems to design his forks -- carbon and steel -- and there's not much to be done other than running a 23 mm tire up front or swapping out your dual-pivot front caliper for a single-pivot rear.

[lhuerta]

The closer the pads are to your rim the more clearance you will have under the caliper...the arch at the center point of the caliper will rise a bit as take up slack on your cable. However, it may limit your ability to remove your 25/27c tire. Lou

[AgilisMerlin]

from above,

makes me think, run a 23 on the front, and save the 25 as a backup for the rear.


just a thought

[wooly]

In order to get clearance on my Luigino for 25 mm tires mounted on 23 mm rims, I needed to run a Campy skeleton rear caliper up front (the single-pivot caliper has much more clearance than the dual-pivot, and also works perfectly well). There were people here who insisted that builder error was to blame for the limited clearance, but I'm pretty sure the truth is that Dario builds race bikes, and he expects the people riding them to run skinny tires (and most likely tubs).

Ari - I remember that thread. I have no problem with running 23's on the H+ Sons. Although I didn't measure how wide they ran, they were close to 25 and there wasn't an issue with tire clearance. Problem is I have stock of 25 tires on hand...

[akelman]

run a 23 on the front, and save the 25 as a backup for the rear

Yeah, going dragster works. But so, too, does running a single-pivot brake up front.

[wooly]

The closer the pads are to your rim the more clearance you will have under the caliper...the arch at the center point of the caliper will rise a bit as take up slack on your cable. However, it may limit your ability to remove your 25/27c tire. Lou

Good point Lou but my pads are pretty close as is. I like a tight lever pool without much slop. Thx

[akelman]

You know the easiest way to solve this problem, Wooly? Send me that Hampsten. I'm here to help!

[wooly]

from above,

makes me think, run a 23 on the front, and save the 25 as a backup for the rear.


just a thought


Interesting thought. i wonder if it changes the handling of the bike much. Probably similar to running a different length fork.

All in all, I may try Ari's suggestion of the rear single pivot up front.

Do you think there's any danger to run as is?

[wooly]

You know the easiest way to solve this problem, Wooly? Send me that Hampsten. I'm here to help!

Good that we're the same size. I'm sure you've got a rig that I'd want.:banana:

[AgilisMerlin]

Interesting thought. i wonder if it changes the handling of the bike much. Probably similar to running a different length fork.

All in all, I may try Ari's suggestion of the rear single pivot up front.

Do you think there's any danger to run as is?

the caliper setup will keep that tire clean / would not be the ideal dirt road set up, i am thinking'

proper build, ti is an interesting material, yes

[happycampyer]

The Campagnolo calipers sit lower than Shimano calipers. Take a look at the photos in post 20 of this thread:

Tire clearance with modern cf forks like Enve - limiting factor - Page 2 - The Paceline Forum (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=122464&page=2&highlight=enve+clearance)

You could switch the calipers to the dark grey Ultegra calipers. An advantage of that is that you can run the pads close to the rim and the release on the caliper gives you extra clearance when installing and removing the wheel.

[wooly]

@ AgilisMerlin - yeah, that's one way to keep the tires free of debris! Afraid I'd endo if something larger than a splinter got wedged in there. But if that happened, I'd flat and clearance won't be the issue.

@ happycampyer - good idea on the Ultegras. I'm not opposed to a bi-racial Italian / Japanese marriage. I know you've had a lot of success with this set up. I quickly googled trying to find an individual rear campy brake caliper and it's tough to find.

[akelman]

I quickly googled trying to find an individual rear campy brake caliper and it's tough to find.

That wasn't my experience. Lots of people want just the front for their single-speeds. Still, you should just send me the bike. Problem solved!

[wooly]

That wasn't my experience. Lots of people want just the front for their single-speeds. Still, you should just send me the bike. Problem solved!

Good to know. Thanks bud. Happy New Year to you all!

[thirdgenbird]

@ AgilisMerlin - yeah, that's one way to keep the tires free of debris! Afraid I'd endo if something larger than a splinter got wedged in there. But if that happened, I'd flat and clearance won't be the issue.

@ happycampyer - good idea on the Ultegras. I'm not opposed to a bi-racial Italian / Japanese marriage. I know you've had a lot of success with this set up. I quickly googled trying to find an individual rear campy brake caliper and it's tough to find.

You may want to try a rear brake up front first. Tire clearance shouldn't be an issue, but depending on the fork crown, you may not have enough thread engagement to safely mount it. I successfully ran a rear monoplanar* up front on one bike but on the next the nut wouldn't even start. Luckily, I was able to get the proper front bolt to convert it over. I don't think its as easy on skeleton brakes though.

*i got two NOS rear monoplanars cheap. I figure the fronts either went on two fixed bikes or the pair of fronts went on a frame that needed a nutted rear brake.

Edit:
If you want a budget option, you could try Planet X brakes. I hear they work alright and I've seen them clear bike tires with ease.

[bking]

i second the ultegra recommendation. I did the same thing to gain clearance for a skinny 28 (vittoria rubino, about a 26.5 on a mavic ksyrium es rim) on a Caad 10. Got more clearance and the new ultegra brakes are better than the sram red or campy records i have on other bikes. really good brakes.

[wooly]

Any idea if the new Ultegra 6800 brakes have equal or more clearance than the 6700s?


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[thirdgenbird]

Does shimano's cable pull change cause unwanted side effects with campy levers?

[Steve in SLO]

I read the title of the thread and thought the forks were on sale...dang!

[cycling.james]

Hey Wooly, please let me know what you find out as you experiment. I finally finished building up my Team Pro UOS with new campy brakes. I had read that the Falz would fit a 27, but my Pave (24) are pretty tight. I subbed in my Grand Bois Cerf 26 and it rubs. Glad to know I'm not the only one encountering these tight clearances!

[jtakeda]

I have the same experience with a wound up fork

I just run a 23 up front.

[wooly]

Hey Wooly, please let me know what you find out as you experiment. I finally finished building up my Team Pro UOS with new campy brakes. I had read that the Falz would fit a 27, but my Pave (24) are pretty tight. I subbed in my Grand Bois Cerf 26 and it rubs. Glad to know I'm not the only one encountering these tight clearances!


Will do James. You need to post your new Hampco too!

I am still debating between 1) finding a rear single pivot campy brake or 2) buying Ultegra 6700 calipers for front and rear. Will let you know tho.


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[Lionel]

Yeah, the Falz is designed to clear a 25 and not much more. The Vittoria clinchers are very wide.... I used Veloflex arenberg 25mm tubular on shamal and they have plenty of clearance.

[Peter P.]

The problem with poor clearance on carbon forks is the necessity to build the fork length to a specified dimension and build sufficient strength at the fork crown. Since carbon is less dense than steel, more material or in carbon's case, a larger cross-section of material, is required. That material swallows up useable space under the fork crown. Sure, the Campy caliper exacerbates the situation but as they say, it is what it is.

You would think they could extend carbon fork lengths to place the rim at the lowest point of the brake slot but I guess they want ease of manufacture with extra fudge factor.

The best solution ;) is a custom steel fork. My Soulcraft was built with the brakes at max reach so I could fit your mother-in-law's butt under the crown. I didn't even have to ask for this feature. That's what you call smart thinking by Sean Walling at Soulcraft.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2865/10847282284_cfebe1600d_z.jpg

[cycling.james]

Thanks Wooly. I'll be sure to post some pictures in the near future. We're buried under snow right now, so it might be a little while before I can get out and ride.

Thanks for the post Lionel. Last night I also tried a few of my other wheelsets. I was able to get the Veloflex Roubaix on without rubbing, but my Corsa SCs in 25s slightly rubbed the brake. I might be able to fit them by tightening the brake cable, but it might be a stretch. Might be constrained to a 23-24 mm tire. I'll need to do a little searching around for the right tire combo with my new Pacenti SL23 wheelset. The painted to match Falz fork does look nice, though.

As a point of comparison, my Goodrich has an Enve fork with the same Campy brakes. I'm able to get my Grand Bois Cerf 29 on there without rub. It's a tight fit, but it does have a decent amount of clearance.

[discman]

I read the title of the thread and thought the forks were on sale...dang!

FYI. The Falz forks are $385. Just bought one for my Love #3

[pdmtong]

My Soulcraft was built with the brakes at max reach so I could fit your mother-in-law's butt under the crown.

what r u doing looking at my MIL's butt?

best quote of the year (2014)

serious question though. I too though the campy levers pulled different cable than the shimano levers, so did not think DA/ultegra played nice with Campy levers. Given that folks are saying no issue, why not then the new DA 9000 brakes for consideration as well as the ultegra 6800/6700?

[happycampyer]

Given that folks are saying no issue, why not then the new DA 9000 brakes for consideration as well as the ultegra 6800/6700?Not sure about others, but I just wanted a set of brakes that were black (or close to) since all of the other components on the bike were black. At the time I got mine, Dura-Ace brakes only came in silver. Looking at the 9000 calipers, the black ones are better, but it looks like they still have a silver section with "Dura-Ace" emblazoned on it. Nothing a Sharpie couldn't fix, I suppose, but I'll stick with the Ultegras.

[wooly]

Just reporting back. I decided to remove my Campy SR rear single pivot caliper to see if it would work on the front. The good news is that the clearance is there, as most thought there would be.

The bad news is the Falz fork will not accept a longer brake bolt nut which is required because rear caliper bolt is much shorter than front caliper bolts. And the Falz has a pretty thick crown. The regular nut that came with the fork wasn't long enough so I went down to my LBS and got a 32mm nut. The problem is the Falz is drilled to fit the shorter bold nut. When inserting the longer nut, it stops short before reaching the bolt ~ BUMMER. I won't be drilling the fork so the other option is to go the Campyano route with the Shimano brake calipers.

At this point it may be easier to just switch groups. I haven't tried out DA 9000 yet. Just may have to do it! :)

[wooly]

Also wanted to note that I spoke with Steve Hampsten and he confirmed that the DA 9000 (and Ultegra 6800) brake calipers have similar tire clearances like Ultegra 6700 calipers. Meaning that the lowest point of the brake caliper bridge sits above the fork crown...