80s Super Record crankset limitations?

[Gsinill]

I really love the look of those Super Record cranks:

http://i39.tinypic.com/vr3b5i.jpg

What are the limitations, i.e. can they be used together with modern (10 or even 11s) Campagnolo components? How hard is to to get 144 BCD rings?
What BB would I need?

Thanks,
GS

[witcombusa]

Be sure and check for cracks at the arm/spider junction.(fairly common and easily fixed with a small chainsaw file if needed)

[Gsinill]

Interesting and thanks for pointing this out.
BTW, how would you fix a crack with a file?

Be sure and check for cracks at the arm/spider junction.(fairly common and easily fixed with a small chainsaw file if needed)

[witcombusa]

Interesting and thanks for pointing this out.
BTW, how would you fix a crack with a file?

They crack exactly where they were "designed" to. (stress riser).
You simply file in a radius with the round file until the crack is removed.
That is usually the end of the problem if done correctly.

[lhuerta]

What are the limitations, i.e. can they be used together with modern (10 or even 11s) Campagnolo components?

•·smallest chainring you can run is 41
•·newer 10/11 speed chains, required for modern drivetrains, will likely be too narrow to run on the older chainrings
•·gap/spacing between chainrings is likely too wide for narrow chain
•·modern cranks are much stiffer and modern chainrings with pins and ramps yield superior shifting

If you are going to run to older stuff, run it with matching older stuff.

lou

[Hindmost]

Depending how you pedal, you can occasionally knock your ankle bone on the crank center. (Jeez, it is painful.)

[dave thompson]

I wonder if the Velo Orange Gran Cru crankset might meet your needs. Sort of a tribute to the Campy Super Record era but with modern strength metals and 10=speed compatible. http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/cranksets/cranks/grand-cru-110-fluted-double-crankset-34x48t.html

[thirdgenbird]

I noticed a significant difference in shifting using 8spd vs 10spd chainrings on a 10spd drivetrain. It would probably work ok if you took the pressure off the pedals and were carefull with the shift, but don't expect it to slam up and down like a modern crankset.

If you want to go somewhat retro, you could use any 80s+ 135bcd campy cranks with either 10 or 11spd rings.

[carlineng]

Never used the VO crankset, but lots of anecdotal reports have led me to be skeptical of anything they produce. I have a hard time believing that this crankset could compare to the top of the line Campy crankset, even from 30 years ago, but maybe I'm wrong.

[8aaron8]

I tried using an ofmega (super record copy) crank on a 10sp drivetrain, and it just didn't fit the bill. Too bad someone doesn't make old style chainrings in a more 10so friendly width

[ultraman6970]

Whats the bcd in those old campy cranks? asking because the record C is 135 bcd and with that pretty much is a thing of changing the chainrings for 11 chanrings, but seen retro modern builds running record c 11 speed using the stock chainrings.

[bfd]

I really love the look of those Super Record cranks:

http://i39.tinypic.com/vr3b5i.jpg

What are the limitations, i.e. can they be used together with modern (10 or even 11s) Campagnolo components? How hard is to to get 144 BCD rings?
What BB would I need?

Thanks,
GS

If you want a modern equivalent of the old SR crankset, take a look at IRD's Defiant crankset:

http://www.interlocracing.com/defiant_double_130bcd1500.jpg

link: http://www.interlocracing.com/cranks.html

Cold forged, comes in both 130bcd and 110bcd; rings are 53/39, 50/34 or even a triple option 48/36/24!; uses JIS square taper bb; and rings are pinned and ramped for 8/9/10 speed drivetrain! Good Luck! :banana::eek::butt::bike:

[wallymann]

works a treat! i regularly ride mine on long training rides, fast group rides, organized centuries, whatever.

my combo is a Super Record 53/42 chainset, SRAM 8spd chain, campy compatible freehub, centaur 13-26 9-speed cluster. the absence of shifting-pins on the rings does slow shifting down, but using DT friction shifters its not a problem.

if you wanted to run modern ergo shifting, the cranks + chain should be compatible with 9spd ergo setups. 8spd chain is wide enough to work well with the relatively widely spaced old-school chainrings and narrow enough to work w/ the 9spd spacing in back.

to get your chainline right, SR cranks run a nominally 116mm *assymetric* BB spindle w/ ISO tapers. however in some cases there can be some variation in that spindle length depending on a variety of factors. also in addition to chainline, you may need to adjust +/- for small chainring clearance. i use the modern centaur triple 115mm assymetric BB and then add BB spacers if needed.

as suggested by others, you definitely need to file a radius @ designed-in stress riser to minimize risk of catastrophic failure of the drive-side crankarm.

http://majortaylorcycling.org/bikes/walter_merckx_corsa-os.jpg
http://majortaylorcycling.org/bikes/walter_gazelle_aa-special.jpg
http://majortaylorcycling.org/bikes/walter_ciocc_mockba-80.jpg

[thirdgenbird]

That looks great!

I'm guessing an 8spd chain and friction shifting is very livable. A 10 or 11spd chain and ergo levers would probably be frustrating at times.

[witcombusa]

Whats the bcd in those old campy cranks? asking because the record C is 135 bcd and with that pretty much is a thing of changing the chainrings for 11 chanrings, but seen retro modern builds running record c 11 speed using the stock chainrings.

This generation is 144mm. The original Record crank was 151mm (44 inner ring)

[parco]

Love that orange Merckx

[buldogge]

I run the original Panto'd '85 SR crank on my De Rosa Pro with an otherwise Centaur 10s drivetrain. I took the inner ring and machined reliefs at the mounting points to match the ring-to-ring spacing of a 10s crankset.

FWIW.

-Mark in St. Louis

[thirdgenbird]

Love that orange Merckx

I can't decide which I like best. Can I vote the Merckx with super record, the wheelset from the gazelle and the pmp seatpost from the ciocc?

I run the original Panto'd '85 SR crank on my De Rosa Pro with an otherwise Centaur 10s drivetrain. I took the inner ring and machined reliefs at the mounting points to match the ring-to-ring spacing of a 10s crankset.

FWIW.

-Mark in St. Louis

Awesome!

[Gsinill]

Well, I guess that one will have to wait till I get that new house with the new workshop and the new lathe and the new Bedord milling machine ;)

I run the original Panto'd '85 SR crank on my De Rosa Pro with an otherwise Centaur 10s drivetrain. I took the inner ring and machined reliefs at the mounting points to match the ring-to-ring spacing of a 10s crankset.

FWIW.

-Mark in St. Louis

[Gsinill]

BTW, did I ever mention that I LOVE this forum? :)

[ColonelJLloyd]

Well, I guess that one will have to wait till I get that new house with the new workshop and the new lathe and the new Bedord milling machine ;)

Or you could just take the ring to machine shop.

[8aaron8]

works a treat! i regularly ride mine on long training rides, fast group rides, organized centuries, whatever.

my combo is a Super Record 53/42 chainset, SRAM 8spd chain, campy compatible freehub, centaur 13-26 9-speed cluster. the absence of shifting-pins on the rings does slow shifting down, but using DT friction shifters its not a problem.

if you wanted to run modern ergo shifting, the cranks + chain should be compatible with 9spd ergo setups. 8spd chain is wide enough to work well with the relatively widely spaced old-school chainrings and narrow enough to work w/ the 9spd spacing in back.

to get your chainline right, SR cranks run a nominally 116mm *assymetric* BB spindle w/ ISO tapers. however in some cases there can be some variation in that spindle length depending on a variety of factors. also in addition to chainline, you may need to adjust +/- for small chainring clearance. i use the modern centaur triple 115mm assymetric BB and then add BB spacers if needed.

as suggested by others, you definitely need to file a radius @ designed-in stress riser to minimize risk of catastrophic failure of the drive-side crankarm.

http://majortaylorcycling.org/bikes/walter_merckx_corsa-os.jpg
http://majortaylorcycling.org/bikes/walter_gazelle_aa-special.jpg
http://majortaylorcycling.org/bikes/walter_ciocc_mockba-80.jpg

Those are some beautiful bicycles

[buldogge]

Yeah...Any small machine/fabrication shop with a "Bridgeport" could make quick work of it. Just avoid a production shop...won't be worth their time.

Maybe a local framebuilder?

-Mark

Or you could just take the ring to machine shop.

[wallymann]

that's a circa 1988 suntour superbe-pro!

...the pmp seatpost from the ciocc?

[thirdgenbird]

that's a circa 1988 suntour superbe-pro!

Now that I'm not on my phone, I see that it isn't a pmp head. Well my statement still hold true. I like that post!

[wallymann]

with crack in-progress. if you catch 'em early enough, an already-cracking crankset can be saved.

http://www.cyclebucket.com/images/crack6.jpg

[zmudshark]

You can run a modern drivetrain with vintage cranksets, as experienced by many folks here, but a modern crankset will work sooo much better. I prefer the looks of a square spindle crank, and have put them on almost all of my bikes. It's hard to beat the look of a hidden 5th 10s Chorus or Record crankset, to my eyes. Even a 10s Centaur looks fast standing still.

[thirdgenbird]

I really like the last 5 arm chorus crankset as well. Better lines and better finish than centaur.

[zmudshark]

I really like the last 5 arm chorus crankset as well. Better lines and better finish than centaur.

I wouldn't hesitate to use any of them, and they shift so nicely up front.

[oliver1850]

I prefer the Triomphe/Victory cranks to the NR/SRs. Their 116 mm bolt pattern makes a lot of sense for those of us that are on the weak end of the scale, and I like the looks also. Chainrings were made from 35 to 42 for the inner and 50 to 53 for the outer. The lower tooth counts are hard to find for both rings, but Miche made 116 rings which might be easier to find in other than 42/52-3. I have 35/48 Miche rings on a Victory on my vintage gravel bike. I've never heard of a cracking problem with them, has anyone else?

[thirdgenbird]

Are the miche ring modern 10/11spd?

Do you have a picture of that setup?

[zmudshark]

I think finding a 116BCD chainring will be next to impossible these days.

[thirdgenbird]

I would think so too, but small companies like miche have done odd things.

[choke]

I think finding a 116BCD chainring will be next to impossible these days.You might be surprised. In the last 6 months I've found both a Miche 46 and a Campy 35.

[choke]

I forgot to add - there's a company in Australia which makes custom chainrings in a variety of BCDs and 116 is one of the choices. They even do 119 (Zeus) and I'm tempted to order something smaller than a 42 since those are impossible to find. http://shop.fyxo.co/custom-chainring-silver/

Are the miche ring modern 10/11spd?The one I have isn't what I'd consider a 'modern' ring, it's more like a circa 8sp Campy - but I'm not sure how old it is either.

[thirdgenbird]

Are they pinned and ramped?

[choke]

Are they pinned and ramped?The one I have doesn't have either.

[oldpotatoe]

I really love the look of those Super Record cranks:

http://i39.tinypic.com/vr3b5i.jpg

What are the limitations, i.e. can they be used together with modern (10 or even 11s) Campagnolo components? How hard is to to get 144 BCD rings?
What BB would I need?

Thanks,
GS

Rings pretty far apart, when using 10s or 11s plus shifting up to the big ring isn't what modern rings will do, particularly under load.

144 BCD rings are easy, TA makes a slew of them, 41t is the smallest small ring tho.

ISO, asymmetrical, 114mm BB..either Phil Wood or a Campagnolo...many on ebay all the time.

[Gsinill]

Thanks all for the input. As usual, I learned a lot :)
Sounds like it makes sense to stick with either all vintage or all modern, trending towards the latter…

Happy New Year
GS

[oliver1850]

I believe all the Campagnolo cranks mentioned are made for ISO spindles. I've seen various spindle lengths listed for them, but Campagnolo catalog 18 (1984) says:

NR/SR road doubles: 112 mm for 68 shells and 113 mm for 70 shells, both asymmetrical but the 68 shell spindle is 3 mm longer on the drive side vs. 2 mm for the 70 spindle.


Catalog 18bis (1986) says:

Victory/Triomphe road doubles: 109 mm symmetrical for 68 and 70 mm shells

The Miche rings aren't particularly nice looking but are an option for sizes other than the common 42/52s. Sorry for the fuzzy pic, not enough light here today for a decent one.

[wallymann]

JIS, asymmetrical, 114mm BB..either Phil Wood or a Campagnolo

gonna go out on a limb an say peter meant ISO not JIS.

a JIS can work in a pinch, but once you go JIS with a super-record crankset there's no going back. also, you'll probably need to run a ~112mm spindle length in JIS.

[oldpotatoe]

gonna go out on a limb an say peter meant ISO not JIS.

a JIS can work in a pinch, but once you go JIS with a super-record crankset there's no going back. also, you'll probably need to run a ~112mm spindle length in JIS.

Achhhh!!! I must have been stoned!!! Yep, far superior ISO...

Colorado ya know(BTW-Don't smoke, anything, never have).