Kitchen Cutlery.

[Shortsocks]

Hey guys/gals.

Well. I officially am old now because I've been shopping for kitchen cutlery with Mrs.Shortsocks and I have learned that there are just as many choices with kitchen cutlery as there are with bicycle parts. Japanese, Italian, German...
My heads about to explode. We have bee trying out knives at Sur La table! William Sonoma...for weeks and by design I over think and over analyze ever purchase..

So it's down to kitchen cutlery decisions. Wusthof classic and Ikon, Miyabi's just don't even know anymore. What do you use at home? Experiences and choices would be much appreciated.

As it stands I can't afford a full Campagnolo Record group which in turns means I can't afford a Miyabi Birchwood either. :banana:

Help?

[stackie]

I've been very happy with my selection of Shun classic knives. Chef's santoku, chopping santoku, tomato knife and paring knife. Bought online and got a free steel. I sharpen with a two sided wet stone purchased from amazon. Fine side is 1000. Works well enough for me and my amateur gourmet aspirations

Jon

[AngryScientist]

if budget is a concern, forget a full set. buy a nice butcher block that catches your eye and buy a couple simple essential kitchen knives and build the collection as time goes on. my wife does most of the cooking, but i like nice knives, and we do a ton of cooking at home; we've found the best way to do it is pick and choose the knives individually, not as a set.

we've got knives in the house from most of the big names, and they're all pretty good. what it comes down to is how the handle shape feels in your hand, just like bike saddles, and shifter hoods.

i recommend you buy a nice butcher block, a 6" chefs knife, an 8" santuko, and a bread knife. that covers most anything you're going to cut. build the collection from there.

i've got the 6" shun chef's knife, and i love it, as the rest of that collection. takes an edge nicely, and feels good in my hand...

http://www.cutleryandmore.com/content/products/large/5286.jpg

[Ken Robb]

For Xmas Mrs. Robb gave me a Miyabi 7" hammer-finished knife that is just wonderful and gorgeous. I don't know what she paid but we were picking up a few things at Sur L' Table yesterday and it was displayed as "on sale" at $170 down from $250. I rarely know about "sale" prices any more so that may not be the super deal it appears.
I have had many knives over my lengthy life with sets from Buck, Gerber, Wusthof, Henckels, Chicago Cutlery, etc. The Bucks were beautiful but the blades were some kind of stainless that would not hold an edge. The others all worked fine but............this new one is drop-dead beautiful and it feels so wonderful in my hand. The shape of the handle and the balance of the knife makes me wish I had skipped all the intermediate steps of using good but not GREAT knives. OTOH I may find maintaining it a lot more work than what is required for my carbon steel "work-a-day" blades that I inherited from my father-in-law who was a butcher. They ain't pretty but they get the job(s) done.

[bikser]

We've been very happy with ours. We buy a knife or two whenever we get a Williams Sonoma gift card. Bought our parents Shun's, also a beautiful knife. Japanese, so they have a lighter feel.

[Likes2ridefar]

I have the shun classic set mentioned a few times here. Had them for about 10 years now and they are still fantastic. My favorites are the 8" chef and the ultimate utility.

[eddief]

http://www.casa.com/p/chicago-cutlery-tradition-collection-269154?site=CA&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc_C&utm_term=ZPV-7031&utm_campaign=GoogleAW&CAWELAID=1309113093&utm_content=pla&adtype=pla&cagpspn=pla

I have added other single pieces to this set, but this set sharpens well, works well.

[mister]

with nicer knives you're buying better steel. which means they sharpen better and stay sharp longer, but can also be more fragile.

i have a japanese chef's knife that is actually a french pattern, it's 210mm basically as long as the cheap german chef's knife i have. they feel completely different. i almost wish the japanese chef's knife were bigger, 240mm maybe.
the german knife i use sometimes still for doing stuff that i wouldn't do with the thinner chef's knife. smashing garlic, shopping hard or frozen things...

a 6" chef's knife is tiny and i wouldn't bother with one that small, i'd just get a 150 or 160mm petty knife.

you could get a santoku for veggies but there isn't really much need with the proper chef's knife (gyuto in japanese knives).
i actually use a nakiri instead of a santoku.

most importantly though is learning to sharpen knives, i use a couple of different wet stones, used to just do 1000/4000 but i have a 6000 now too so i do that.
the japanese knives stay sharp for a good while, the german knife i have gets tiny chips in the edge pretty quickly.

also with good knives you don't have to use much force to slice or chop most stuff. it's kind of interesting to see people use my knives when they are used to knives that don't have good edges...

[jmoore]

We got a Wustoff Classic set for a wedding present in 2001. It's still going strong. It's maybe not the 100% best of the best, but I haven't found it to be lacking for anything we have used it for.


America's Test Kitchen always recommends the Forschner Fibrox series. They are seriously inexpensive but always get good reviews.

http://www.chefsresource.com/forschner-knives.html

[polyhistoric]

I have a set of the Shun Kaji - love the weight and feel. Also, unlike the other Shun knives, the handles are not specifically right or left handed (so both different-handed chefs in the kitchen can use them).

I will caution that the blades are very delicate and the smaller paring and utility knives have chipped. They are, however, scalpel like in their sharpness and ability to maintain an edge.

Love the Santoku-shape. Found the carving knife to be a waste. Also, ditch the block - takes up way too much counter space.

[verticaldoug]

My wife is Japanese. She swears by the Kyocera Santoku Ceramic knife. It'll probably cost $40 and cut better than anything else you can buy.

The only reason you'll buy the other knives are for fashion. Go practical

[bart998]

I have been really pleased with the Cutco knives I bought from a friends kid who was working his way through college. I'll probably buy more.

[choke]

I have a Wüsthof set that I purchased many years ago and along the way I added a Santoku to it. If I had to do it over I'd just buy the Santoku and a couple of smaller knives and call it good; I use the Santoku for nearly everything. The thin profile and hollow grind work better for me than a normal blade.

I'm a bit of a 'knife nut' and I feel that the Wüsthof steel is easy to sharpen and holds a good edge. I don't feel that I'm lacking anything by not having something more high end.

[DRZRM]

I bought mine piecemeal but most are Shun. Generally Shun Classics, but a few Shun Premiums on sale that I really like. Save money on anything serrated (like a bread knife), I also think the Shun tomato knife is unnecessary, any well sharpened blade will work as well as that serration. The knife I use most is the 10" chefs, then the Santuko, and a 4" paring knife. Really, I could have gotten by with just the three...oh an a flexible filleting knife, for while fish.

The real difference between the good Japanese and the good German is the angle the blade is sharpened to (I think 17 degrees for Shun vs. 21 degrees for most Germans). The Shuns feel sharper, and maybe a bit more delicate, but once you learn to sharpen them they are great knives. Actually, I think you can still send them back to Shun for free lifetime sharpening, right?. I always think I should get them back to them to feel new sometime, but with a 240/1000 and a 6000 whetstone, you can get them damn close.

[FlashUNC]

Another vote for Shun.

As others have mentioned, the blade can be prone to chipping, but it's stupidly sharp, feels great in the hand.

Just got The Boss a 7" santoku to replace a worn out 5" santoku from Kitchenaid.

[mvrider]

On a trip to Japan last year, I was searching for a nice present for my mom, who is a masterful chef. Without any advance research, I purchased a carbon steel blade from Masamoto, in the Tsukiji fish market in Tokyo (quite the experience at 5 am).

She just loves the knife and asked me to buy another one for her on my next business trip to Japan. The two are now her go-to knives, for anything from vegetable chopping to seafood preparation. My wife and I now also own two of these knives.

The carbon steel holds a finer edge than stainless, at the expense of discoloration over time. Using a fine Japanese stone under running water, you can really achieve a razor sharp edge. It is quite delicate and brittle though, easy to chip. So, we held onto our Henckels for rougher service.

A store in San Francisco sells these blades at 3X to 4X the price in Tsukiji. The store there believes these "market" knives to be of higher quality than the ones made "inland".

http://www.tukijimasamoto.co.jp/
http://www.mtckitchen.com/t-Aboutourknifebrands.aspx

http://www.mtckitchen.com/Images/IMG_9999_214.jpg

[giordana93]

Will both of you use the same knives? Size matters, as does heft, so go with sth. that feels good in the hand to both of you. I like Wusthof, but really, just as sram, campy and Shimano work great, just a little differently, all good forged knives will get the job done well. Victorinox is a great stamped option for little money and good for filling in holes on your set. It would be easy to pick up a set of Wusthof classic on cutleryandmore.com, but I would agree that a pretty, matching set is not always the best route, esp if budget is a concern. Better to get a chefs, paring, tomato/utility, and bread knife with sharpening steel and block to start then fill in holes as needed.

The biggest thing, though, no matter what you choose, is to use a sharpening steel religiously (and correctly) and maybe even learn to touch up with a stone. I know too many people who bitch about how their expensive knives don't cut any more, take them for sharpening, which lasts 3 weeks, and then somehow expensive brand X sucks. Stupid.

If you are already fawning over a fancy inlaid handle damascus steel, buy 1 and not a set, then add piecemeal. If you really need to start from zero and get a complete, functional, set, go with a German starter set with handles you both like, learn how to care for them, then grow the collection.

[lukasz]

As far as I know, this is the CAAD 10 of chef's knives: http://www.amazon.com/Victorinox-40520-Fibrox-8-Inch-Chefs/dp/B000638D32

[gngroup]

We've had a Wusthof Classic set for 8 years and they are still going strong.

[Ti Designs]

Nobody's going to put in a good word for Global? I have both the left hand and right hand Global sashimi knives (as a sushi chef I do some things backwards), I find them to be well balanced and in many ways easier to deal with because of their all metal construction. If you value a super sharp knife, you need to at least try a single bevel japanese knife, but I must warn you that what makes it sharp also makes it fragile. The knife is sharpened much like a wood working chisel, the flat side is brought to dead flat on the stone, the edge is perfected by keeping the bevel dead even on the stone. I've sharpened my knives hundreds of times, I'm amazed that I still have fingerprints...

[fogrider]

Japanese blades are light and sharp the Euro blades are big and powerful in comparison. I got my wife a Japanese blade last year and it has been her go to knife.

Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk

[Germany_chris]

Wmf

[shamsixnine]

An added bonus is that their design is very easy to clean. Important for getting everything..

[OtayBW]

Nobody's going to put in a good word for Global? I have both the left hand and right hand Global sashimi knives (as a sushi chef I do some things backwards), I find them to be well balanced and in many ways easier to deal with because of their all metal construction. If you value a super sharp knife, you need to at least try a single bevel japanese knife, but I must warn you that what makes it sharp also makes it fragile. The knife is sharpened much like a wood working chisel, the flat side is brought to dead flat on the stone, the edge is perfected by keeping the bevel dead even on the stone. I've sharpened my knives hundreds of times, I'm amazed that I still have fingerprints...
Similar to a kamisori.

[Ozz]

I have mix of Henckels 4 Star, Shun Ken Onion, and Shun Bob Kramer...all are great depending on what I am doing with them.

go to knife is the 8" Henckels chef's knife. I have had it about 20 yrs and it has a knife blade shape that really works for most of what I do...chopping veggies and such.

I like the feel of the 8" ken Onion, but the blade has a curve, so it works best for slicing thru food rather than chopping.

the Bob Kramer Chef also has a slight curve towards the tip, but flattens towards the handle....sort of the best of both. however, it has a very wide blade and does not fit in my knife block...so it stays in a box under the counter mostly. The Henckels knife is out on the counter and handy.

A good knife is really a lifetime investment, so make sure you get a set that works for you. I built my set over 25+ years....first good knife was a college graduation gift....Henckels 4 star Santoku...it is still in the knife block and works great.

One other thing to keep in mind is sharpening....Japanese blades typically have a 15 degree edge versus the 20 degree of European/American blades...make sure you know what you are doing when you sharpen your blades...which should be rarely. You will most often hone your edge with a "steel"...which can be either steel or ceramic.

Have fun and good luck.

BTW - knives have been discussed previously here, so do a search.

[dan_hudson]

We cook a lot. Have a Wusthof and two Shun knives. Always go for a Shun first.

[Shortsocks]

Thanks for all the suggestions and help. We read all of them, even Mrs.Shortsocks who was very impressed with all of the cyclist's experience.

We decided to go against a Japanese knife purchase at the moment and went for the tried and true Wusthof Classic. Seems to be a long lasting knife from what you guys/gals have said. As well....I got a wicked deal on a 5 piece Classic set for 110 bucks. Which was way to hard to pass up. We are both a young couple, and just bought are first house, Actually condo, so we are trying to save a little before the closing, mid Jan.

Once again guys/gals I really appreciate all your help and input. I'll post a couple of pics our set and a small, yet uneducated, review when we open it. Maybe newly wed youngsters can use it in the future. :banana:

[echelon_john]

That's a good deal, and will get you well on your way. Plus, it gives you the chance to see what you like/don't like so you can make smart purchases later on when you feel the need & have the cash.

I will put in a plug here for one of the best kitchen investments we've made, which is a nice sharpener. I know the traditionalists will poo-poo it in favor of hand sharpening, but this thing really works, is fast, and has made it easy to keep our arsenal razor sharp with minimal effort. If you don't feel like learning how to hand sharpen, this thing is a revelation:

http://www.amazon.com/Chefs-Choice-Professional-Knife-Sharpening-Platinum/dp/B000CSK0DM

[Ken Robb]

That's a good deal, and will get you well on your way. Plus, it gives you the chance to see what you like/don't like so you can make smart purchases later on when you feel the need & have the cash.

I will put in a plug here for one of the best kitchen investments we've made, which is a nice sharpener. I know the traditionalists will poo-poo it in favor of hand sharpening, but this thing really works, is fast, and has made it easy to keep our arsenal razor sharp with minimal effort. If you don't feel like learning how to hand sharpen, this thing is a revelation:

http://www.amazon.com/Chefs-Choice-Professional-Knife-Sharpening-Platinum/dp/B000CSK0DM
I have one but I think it produces a 20 degree edge which is good for American and European knives but not Japanese.

[echelon_john]

Good point. (har har)

I have one but I think it produces a 20 degree edge which is good for American and European knives but not Japanese.

[Ken Robb]

Good point. (har har)

You're very sharp. har har.:banana:

[Tommasini53]

I purchased two Global knives from amazon a couple years ago for about $150...love them..tossed all of my other kitchen knives, just two good quality knives replace a rack of so-so quality knives.

[DRZRM]

OK, now I've become a bit obsessed (as much as one can be using google) with the Tsukiji Masamoto knives. Anyone who is either living in, or regularly passing through Tokyo who would expedite, I'd happily pay a finders fee. Somewhere between what the stores in NYC and SF charge and what Masamoto charges?

And, according to google translation, it also looks like you can order directly from them. I may have to talk to a Japanese friend to do some translation for my email.

[choke]

I know the traditionalists will poo-poo it in favor of hand sharpening, but this thing really works, is fast, and has made it easy to keep our arsenal razor sharp with minimal effort. If you don't feel like learning how to hand sharpen, this thing is a revelation:

http://www.amazon.com/Chefs-Choice-Professional-Knife-Sharpening-Platinum/dp/B000CSK0DMAnd I'd say get a Spyderco Sharpmaker (http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=77) - they make hand sharpening easy. :) Street price is about 1/2-2/3 of MSRP.

[staggerwing]

OK, now I've become a bit obsessed (as much as one can be using google) with the Tsukiji Masamoto knives. Anyone who is either living in, or regularly passing through Tokyo who would expedite, I'd happily pay a finders fee. Somewhere between what the stores in NYC and SF charge and what Masamoto charges?

And, according to google translation, it also looks like you can order directly from them. I may have to talk to a Japanese friend to do some translation for my email.

Haven't ordered from them yet, but they have a good reputation:

http://japanesechefsknife.com/MASAMOTO.html#Masamoto

Plenty to drool at on that site.

[Marcy]

My bro-in-law got us a nice set of Global knives as a wedding present 7 years ago. They are going strong. I didn't know much about kitchen knives, but have really come to appreciate this fantastic set (8 knives and a storage block).
Whatever you get, you'll be glad you got 'em every time you cook.

[DRZRM]

Thanks a lot, looks like fair pricing.

Lots to think about.

Haven't ordered from them yet, but they have a good reputation:

http://japanesechefsknife.com/MASAMOTO.html#Masamoto

Plenty to drool at on that site.

[umami]

I have two kitchen knives. This: http://www.amazon.com/Global-G-46-inch-Santoku-Knife/dp/B0006A03QA

and this: http://www.amazon.com/Kuhn-Rikon-4-Inch-Nonstick-Colori/dp/B000GZDY6Q

Global knives are made from a harder steel than standard kitchen knives. They also have a thinner blade edge, so they're "sharper" out of the box. This also means a standard automatic sharpener will ruin the edge. I didn't sharpen my Global for three years after I bought it. Granted, I'm easy on my stuff, cut only on cutting boards, no bones, etc. By the time I got around to sharpening it, it would still cut through a tomato easily, but not with that initial razor sharp effortlessness.

The 7" blade is a hair too small for large jobs such as cutting melons or a large loaf of bread. Fortunately I don't eat a lot of melons or bread. For nearly everything else, it's the perfect balance between comfort and utility.

The other advantage to the single-piece construction is there are no seams, cracks or rivets where bacteria can accumulate.

The 4" Kuhn Rikon, well, it's cheap, sharp as hell, and the sharp tip fills in the places where the Global falls short. I'm not convinced Global's handle shape feels as good on a smaller knife.

[crossjunkee]

Kramer, if you can find one. Custom, not the ready made. Although the ready made are pretty stinking good too.

http://kramerknives.com/

[mister]

Haven't ordered from them yet, but they have a good reputation:

http://japanesechefsknife.com/MASAMOTO.html#Masamoto

Plenty to drool at on that site.

i've ordered from them a few times
fast shipping

[edl]

I have Shun Classic and do enjoy using them, however they need to be properly taken care of like anything else to maintain their edge. If you're on a budget, I highly recommend buying Victorinox - Get the 8" chef and 6" boning. They're cheap, light, plenty sharp, and you won't worry about guests screwing them up.

[redir]

Nobody's going to put in a good word for Global? I have both the left hand and right hand Global sashimi knives (as a sushi chef I do some things backwards), I find them to be well balanced and in many ways easier to deal with because of their all metal construction. If you value a super sharp knife, you need to at least try a single bevel japanese knife, but I must warn you that what makes it sharp also makes it fragile. The knife is sharpened much like a wood working chisel, the flat side is brought to dead flat on the stone, the edge is perfected by keeping the bevel dead even on the stone. I've sharpened my knives hundreds of times, I'm amazed that I still have fingerprints...

Interesting I've not seen a kitchen knife like that before. It actually would make it easier to get a sharp point I would think. I can get a razor edge on a kitchen knife but sharpening a chisel is a lot easier provided it's lapped well.

[tiny]

No idea how it will hold up, but I tried a Kyocera knife for the first time... those knives are insanely sharp and really easy to manipulate (because of their light weight I presume).

[parco]

Unless you are a professional chef, Wüsthof. This may even be overkill but it's really good stuff.

[Ozz]

FREE Sharpening is Back!
Yes! Effective September 4, 2012, Kai USA Ltd. is once again sharpening your Shun cutlery for free, for as long as you own it. It’s as simple as that. You pay for shipping, and our expert sharpening services are FREE. If you live in the area, you may also bring your Shun knives in for free sharpening. We can sharpen up to two knives while you wait; more than two and they will be ready for you to pick up the next day.


I have no affiliation with Shun / KAI, but just really like their knives.

[Likes2ridefar]

FREE Sharpening is Back!
Yes! Effective September 4, 2012, Kai USA Ltd. is once again sharpening your Shun cutlery for free, for as long as you own it. It’s as simple as that. You pay for shipping, and our expert sharpening services are FREE. If you live in the area, you may also bring your Shun knives in for free sharpening. We can sharpen up to two knives while you wait; more than two and they will be ready for you to pick up the next day.


I have no affiliation with Shun / KAI, but just really like their knives.

Thanks!

[vicbastige]

If you want to buy once and cry once, go for a Takeda 210mm Gyuto and find a Nakiri knife to go with it (vegetable prep). I chose a Masakage Yuki. Bot these knives are Arogami super steel (one blue, one white). They are much, MUCH harder than almost any stainless and as such are able to pull off a more acute grind with far less dulling or chipping. The trade off is that high carbon levels make them reactive (read: they rust), so you must take care to wipe them down after use (and of course NEVER in the dishwasher and only on a natural wood/bamboo cutting board). Trust me as a knife geek, the money and effort are well worth it. I have a full set of Globals that have been relegated to utility status. Stage two of this disease is to learn to self sharpen. It is easy and fun to learn. You can start with a "system" kit like Lansky, Edge Pro or wicked edge, but ultimately you will want to use whetstones and free-hand sharpening. I now sharpen blades for all my family and the whole hood to beyond razor edges. Fun stuff. Look here and join the disease:


http://www.chefknivestogo.com/takeda-knives.html

[p nut]

I've been quite happy with my piece of garbage Faberware, but I have placed an order for Shun. I thought Paceline would bankrupt me from the cycling side. Didn't see this coming.

[sashae]

OK, now I've become a bit obsessed (as much as one can be using google) with the Tsukiji Masamoto knives. Anyone who is either living in, or regularly passing through Tokyo who would expedite, I'd happily pay a finders fee. Somewhere between what the stores in NYC and SF charge and what Masamoto charges?

And, according to google translation, it also looks like you can order directly from them. I may have to talk to a Japanese friend to do some translation for my email.

Masamoto knives are available for ordering direct via Rakuten Global (global.rakuten.com/en) -- the prices are VERY reasonable, even including shipping. You just need to know what you're looking for. I'm a huge fan of Masamoto KS knives..

[vicbastige]

Masamoto is available on chef knives to go website too.

[ckamp]

When I go buy kitchen cutlery I look for one very important thing.

The small spoon should be strong enough to resist thumb pressure without bending. In other words, you should be able to scoop out some ice-cream with the small spoon. This is a good indicator for durability/softness of the metal alloy. You will find that so many of them bend.

:)

[mister]

oh man, perfect pattern right here
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/taassala24gy.html

[Lugger]

if budget is a concern, forget a full set. buy a nice butcher block that catches your eye and buy a couple simple essential kitchen knives and build the collection as time goes on. my wife does most of the cooking, but i like nice knives, and we do a ton of cooking at home; we've found the best way to do it is pick and choose the knives individually, not as a set.

we've got knives in the house from most of the big names, and they're all pretty good. what it comes down to is how the handle shape feels in your hand, just like bike saddles, and shifter hoods.

i recommend you buy a nice butcher block, a 6" chefs knife, an 8" santuko, and a bread knife. that covers most anything you're going to cut. build the collection from there.

i've got the 6" shun chef's knife, and i love it, as the rest of that collection. takes an edge nicely, and feels good in my hand...

http://www.cutleryandmore.com/content/products/large/5286.jpg

Hey, Angry Scientist, You're in my neck of the woods. Do you sharpen yourself or use a sharpening service. If you use a service can you PM me with the reference?
Thnaks
jim

[Stormy arthur]

I have been loving my Schmidt Brothers knives. Inexpensive, but they cut NICE.