650b vs mtn bike geo

[redblack]

in todays threads, DBRK says
he does not care for Mtn bikes,
on another thread he seems to like
B-stones X-O's , and he promotes
650-b bikes.
Question: how do these examples
differ? Are the designs that different?
seems like they share similar geometry
and similar wheels size and widths.
what makes a good rough stuff allrounder
bike?

[dbrk]

Most 650B bikes do not share anything like the "standard" mountain bike geometries that seem to have dominated things since Grant wired the numbers on the MB-1 (a bike that he, well, I'll not tell you all he thinks about mtn bikes...). Think of a 650B as essentially a 700c tourer. Once you raise the bb proportionally then it's basically a road bike geometry in the French touring style. The 584mm diameter plus a 37c tire means it fits like a road bike for standovers, heights, etc. There's little to change but bb height and that is relative to the whole.

Bstone's X0-1 was a good idea but it wasn't quite, quite the thing. To see the evolution look at the 700c Atlantis or even the 26" versions under 56cm. Better yet look at the Saluki's geometries, which are quite like just "normal" Rivendell road bikes (and so very much like Tournesol, etc.). Jan Heine's claims about very short rakes are not something I have verified for myself and I honestly do not doubt his experience or his integrity but the numbers make less sense than they should (if that makes sense).

In sum, a 650B rides like a fat tire road bike and nothing much like a quick up front mtn bike.

dbrk

[redblack]

I know i do not "get it"
so , thank you for sharing your
knowledge.
Are x-0 and mb-1 geo's similar?
I thought the 26 inch smaller atlantis's and
x-o shared similar numbers.

I thought the 650 b salukis
and atlantis were similar, but
it sounds like the 650b
have bb drop numbers like
road bikes, and I failed to recongize
that the proportions change.

[dbrk]

Hmm. The X0s and MBs did not have similar numbers, the former being more road-like. We could run over the actual numbers but Grant, I think, would also tell you that the X0 has undergone some revision in thinking and plenty of different numbers as it morphed into the Rivendells. Rivendells are a good deal different from Bstones, and far better in design, in truth (both Grant and I surely agree, as we do on, well, 99% of everything with the othe 1% not making any difference). I think I may have been unclear, so sorry, but the X0 and smaller Atlantis is also quite different, the Atlantis taking a turn even further towards "touring road" bike geometries. As for Saluki, designing a bike with 650B does mean having to raise the bb height because of the effect of the wheel diameter but otherwise you are looking at a whole that rides just like a comfort-oriented road bike and not like a mtn bike.

Sorry if this was just as cloudy as the last.

dbrk