Seven Evergreen

[MattTuck]

Anyone look into these? (http://www.sevencycles.com/discipline/gravel-road.php)

Billed as a gravel road bike:
For the drop bar fanatic who doesn't want to be confined to pavement, we offer a boundaryless series of bikes, the Seven Evergreens. Elegantly designed to embrace the crude terrain you might encounter on your preferred loop, these bikes are perfectly outfitted to handle the rigors off the road. Disc brakes, wide tires, and fender mounts will ensure you'll have fun, no matter the direction you head.

http://www.sevencycles.com/images/bikes/evergreen-sl-pop.jpg

[christian]

Cool stuff.

Shame about the levers and the bottle cages. Don't like a CX fork on a dedicated dirt road bike.

[Germany_chris]

Just think how sexy it's be with campy

[christian]

Weird. All the pictures are Enve forks (tapered disc cx), but the specs say Whiskey No. 5, which is straight, alloy steerer, 45mm rake...

[sparky33]

belongs to JBay

Really nice bike. I think Seven had to give a name to some recent bikes that fall somewhere between an Axiom and a Mudhoney...

[mtb_frk]

They look nice. I don't see any frameset pricing though.

[discman]

I really like the finish on this Seven. I there a difference in a road disk fork and a CX disk fork?
It would appear that the bike manufacturers are introducing road disk / gravel grinders at a ratio of 500:1 relative to demand.

[sparky33]

They look nice. I don't see any frameset pricing though.

somewhere between pricey and wicked expensive. and then some extra for a fork upgrade and fancy paint.

[sparky33]

I really like the finish on this Seven. I there a difference in a road disk fork and a CX disk fork?

Tire clearance. Height.

Enve (http://www.enve.com/forks/road-disc.aspx)

and here (http://www.enve.com/forks/disc-cyclocross.aspx)

[carlineng]

Not a fan of the SRAM hydraulic levers w/ classic bend bars. They really clash in a bad way. I bet they work nicely though.

[EDS]

Anyone look into these? (http://www.sevencycles.com/discipline/gravel-road.php)

Billed as a gravel road bike:


http://www.sevencycles.com/images/bikes/evergreen-sl-pop.jpg

That bike is prominently featured in the gravel road bike thread.

It is a beauty and anyone who thinks otherwise has likely already forsaken all that is good and pure in this world.

[christian]

I there a difference in a road disk fork and a CX disk fork?Rake and axle-to-crown distance.

[ColonelJLloyd]

If my budget could accommodate one I'd definitely be interested.

[MattTuck]

That bike is prominently featured in the gravel road bike thread.

It is a beauty and anyone who thinks otherwise has likely already forsaken all that is good and pure in this world.

ooops. Haven't checked on that thread in a while. Should have known you guys were all over it!

[sparky33]

this bike is worth repeating in a new thread.

If I could have just one bike is too hard to answer. This bike makes if I could have just two bikes a reasonable question.

[Nooch]

that's a lot of different models of the same bike!

[YoKev]

I'd love to throw my leg over it and take it for a spin. Looks nice.

[mtb_frk]

So the Enve fork doesn't have fender mounts, right? I think both versions of the whiskey does. So that kind of drives the spec of the bike. It looks like a awesome bike though.

[christian]

It's a mysterious world where $6000 bikes are defined by a $300 open mold carbon fork.

(not talking about jbay's bike here - it clearly uses an Enve)

I'm surprised Seven couldn't OEM that Kinesis 1.125-1.5 tapered all carbon mid-reach road fork.

[Climb01742]

Man, that disc brake bandwagon must be getting really crowded. I like this except for the brakes. Any reason why regular brakes with enough clearance for bigger tires wouldn't be equally appropriate?

[William]

Man, that disc brake bandwagon must be getting really crowded. I like this except for the brakes. Any reason why regular brakes with enough clearance for bigger tires wouldn't be equally appropriate?

Disc is the new black!;)




William

[crossjunkee]

Man, that disc brake bandwagon must be getting really crowded. I like this except for the brakes. Any reason why regular brakes with enough clearance for bigger tires wouldn't be equally appropriate?

I agree. I can't STAND disc brakes being pushed down my throat! They look horrible. I'm perfectly happy with my canti's.

[EDS]

Man, that disc brake bandwagon must be getting really crowded. I like this except for the brakes. Any reason why regular brakes with enough clearance for bigger tires wouldn't be equally appropriate?

Isn't the obvious answer: because the owner wanted them? I think on this particular bike the owner wanted the ability to switch between 700 and 650B wheels.

[EDS]

I agree. I can't STAND disc brakes being pushed down my throat! They look horrible. I'm perfectly happy with my canti's.

Query: How does the use of disc brakes on a custom bike result in disc brakes being pushed down your throat? I did not realize it was no longer possible to get a custom bike with cantis, but I haven't purchased a new bike in a few years so perhaps that is now the case.

[saab2000]

I just got an Independent Fabrication Gravel Royale with discs. It's a bit of an experiment but so far they're pretty transparent while riding. Squeeze the lever and you stop. Acceptable power (TRP Spyre brakes with Shimano DA9000 shifters) and good modulation.

We'll see if it's just a fad. I'm lukewarm, at best, on the aesthetic, but I think they may prove to be functionally superior to rim brakes. I'll have to try it on some longer, loose-surface descents to find out.

But I did ride my Zanconato on some long gravel road rides and the braking was not really exceptional. I use Campagnolo Record brakes (excellent brakes by any standard) with 25 mm tubulars the first time I did the ride in question and with 28mm Ruffy Tuffy clinchers the second time I did that particular event.

I'm hopeful that the discs will prove superior but only time will tell.

I've only ridden mine a couple times so far and it's too early to pass judgement.

That Seven looks very nice BTW.

[Climb01742]

Isn't the obvious answer: because the owner wanted them? I think on this particular bike the owner wanted the ability to switch between 700 and 650B wheels.

I did not realize it was someone's bike. By the OPs post I thought it was a new Seven model. Did not mean to critique a personal choice. Did wish to comment on how every company seems to be on the disk bandwagon, for reasons that seem to be mostly riding the new wave.

[crossjunkee]

Query: How does the use of disc brakes on a custom bike result in disc brakes being pushed down your throat? I did not realize it was no longer possible to get a custom bike with cantis, but I haven't purchased a new bike in a few years so perhaps that is now the case.

The OP didn't state it was custom, looks like a standard Seven model. I see 5 Seven models, all disc. If you don't think the big bike manufacturers are pushing disc's, then you're blind. Heck, I couldn't even order a canti equipped Cannondale frame through my team for racing this year. I'm not complaining about not being able to get a Cannondale, because I prefer S-Works.

[saab2000]

I did not realize it was someone's bike. By the OPs post I thought it was a new Seven model. Did not mean to critique a personal choice. Did wish to comment on how every company seems to be on the disk bandwagon, for reasons that seem to be mostly riding the new wave.

This applies to practically every new technology though.

I'm far from convinced about them on a road bike but since this bike, and my new IF Gravel Royale, are not really pure road bikes they may have a place.

The debate about their effectiveness on a mountain bike is long over.

I'm also not sure I like the look but if they work better that's all that matters. Whether or not they actually do in this application remains to be seen.

[Climb01742]

This applies to practically every new technology though.

I'm far from convinced about them on a road bike but since this bike, and my new IF Gravel Royale, are not really pure road bikes they may have a place.

The debate about their effectiveness on a mountain bike is long over.

I'm also not sure I like the look but if they work better that's all that matters. Whether or not they actually do in this application remains to be seen.

The one application that makes sense for me would be a winter/rain/snow commuter and trainer. If I still lived in Oregon's rain, disc would be desirable.

But as you say, for many road or gravel uses, I'm a little foggy on their advantages. Hope you dig your new ride a lot.

[EDS]

I did not realize it was someone's bike. By the OPs post I thought it was a new Seven model. Did not mean to critique a personal choice. Did wish to comment on how every company seems to be on the disk bandwagon, for reasons that seem to be mostly riding the new wave.

According to the website, you can have an Evergreen built for cantis or v-brakes by request. So have it your way!

[EDS]

The OP didn't state it was custom, looks like a standard Seven model. I see 5 Seven models, all disc. If you don't think the big bike manufacturers are pushing disc's, then you're blind. Heck, I couldn't even order a canti equipped Cannondale frame through my team for racing this year. I'm not complaining about not being able to get a Cannondale, because I prefer S-Works.

Again, the website says you can have it built for cantis or v-brakes if you want!

[cromo900]

I like this except for the brakes.

Non-disc option?: http://cascadebicyclestudio.com/2013/06/cbs-seven-cycles-present-the-cxr-cross-bike/

[crossjunkee]

Again, the website says you can have it built for cantis or v-brakes if you want!

But for now, here are 5 pictures with disc's, because we're pushing disc's down your throat.

[Climb01742]

Non-disc option?: http://cascadebicyclestudio.com/2013/06/cbs-seven-cycles-present-the-cxr-cross-bike/

Very cool project.

[EDS]

But for now, here are 5 pictures with disc's, because we're pushing disc's down your throat.

Does watching a budwiser commercial make you want to drink bad beer? If so, then yes, they are pushing discs down your throat.

[crossjunkee]

Non-disc option?: http://cascadebicyclestudio.com/2013/06/cbs-seven-cycles-present-the-cxr-cross-bike/

Very nice! I would proudly own.

[dyerwolf]

Sweetness!

[morrisericd]

Very nice! As a Seven owner I can say they are a class act.

[54ny77]

for some reason, those brake levers keep reminding me of something.....


https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSEoEaIDFc4szXCXZLaR4qKmOwcmJ2Ej G9iyA-_qMyKZ0khz_XH

[rwsaunders]

I have a Poprad frame that came from the factory with both canti studs and disc tabs on the rear. The Bontrager fork that came with the frame has canti studs only.

I've been tempted to locate a Bontrager disc fork or just pick up a Surly disc fork so that I could replace the current canti setup with discs, as the bike is ridden a loy in wet weather. For general riding the cantis work for me. Riding down the steep hills around here in the rain...whoa Nelly.

[polyhistoric]

Had a fitting with Rob V./Seven recently and personally know the multiple bikes/owners of the Evergreen/Randonee variety. Wide tires, longer wheelbase and lower BB. The model name is the cap of a couple year process of defining the geometry and butting profiles. Since its all custom, doesn't really matter- the model name is just a start (I'm tempted to call mine an EVERMUD). Enve is the preferred, but not only choice of fork. Seven can do some really cool things to carbon forks if rack and fender mounts are your cup 0' tea.

[tuxbailey]

I kept thinking that it was a Speevagen.

[jpw]

I just got an Independent Fabrication Gravel Royale with discs. It's a bit of an experiment but so far they're pretty transparent while riding. Squeeze the lever and you stop. Acceptable power (TRP Spyre brakes with Shimano DA9000 shifters) and good modulation.

.

i don't see this model listed on the if site. is it too new?

[jpw]

The one application that makes sense for me would be a winter/rain/snow commuter and trainer.

yes.

[discman]

And now Signature Cycles has done one too...

http://http://www.signaturecycles.com/#mi=1111&pt=0&pi=17&p=-1&a=0&at=0

A rack? really?

[Mikej]

Had a fitting with Rob V./Seven recently and personally know the multiple bikes/owners of the Evergreen/Randonee variety. Wide tires, longer wheelbase and lower BB. The model name is the cap of a couple year process of defining the geometry and butting profiles. Since its all custom, doesn't really matter- the model name is just a start (I'm tempted to call mine an EVERMUD). Enve is the preferred, but not only choice of fork. Seven can do some really cool things to carbon forks if rack and fender mounts are your cup 0' tea.

So, how did it go? RV seems to be (at least to me) the beginning of the whole big custom for you movement. Sure there was custom before seven, but they kind of brought it to the masses. That bike is really sweet, lately seven has been catching my attention.

[happycampyer]

And now Signature Cycles has done one too...

http://http://www.signaturecycles.com/#mi=1111&pt=0&pi=17&p=-1&a=0&at=0

A rack? really?Signature Cycles has built about a dozen of these, including Signature Justin's own 650B version with an Igleheart steel fork.

http://www.signaturecycles.com/data/photos/2251_1r130710_seven_0015_lb.jpg

[gregblow]

Signature Cycles has built about a dozen of these, including Signature Justin's own 650B version with an Igleheart steel fork.

http://www.signaturecycles.com/data/photos/2251_1r130710_seven_0015_lb.jpg
That is so cool! I wish I never sold my Seven Axiom Race

[jpw]

Signature Cycles has built about a dozen of these, including Signature Justin's own 650B version with an Igleheart steel fork.

http://www.signaturecycles.com/data/photos/2251_1r130710_seven_0015_lb.jpg

what are those tires?

[happycampyer]

what are those tires?They're Grand Bois Hetre tires (650B, 42mm).

[polyhistoric]

So, how did it go? RV seems to be (at least to me) the beginning of the whole big custom for you movement. Sure there was custom before seven, but they kind of brought it to the masses. That bike is really sweet, lately seven has been catching my attention.

It's a matter of trust. I'm pretty stock sized, so the custom route isn't so much about fitting as it is ride quality - although we spent a good portion of the fit talking while I was on the trainer to see biomechanically how things are working. Apart from the typical sizing questions, the discussion focused on where I should be on the bike (weight distribution), butted vs. different gauged tubing sets, and implementation of new standards 44mm headtube, disc brake mounts and cabling options. I left the fitting feeling confident in what is going to come out if it.

Build/geometry sheet for approval soon.

[54ny77]

regarding that seven at signature cycles, I saw the bike in the window last night while walking past, them tires sure are plump and that bike looks awesome. the go pro mount on the saddle rails is sharp (dunno if that's custom or not, but either way it's really slick).

i haven't been by in a long time and the store looks great as always.

[Climb01742]

It's a matter of trust. I'm pretty stock sized, so the custom route isn't so much about fitting as it is ride quality - although we spent a good portion of the fit talking while I was on the trainer to see biomechanically how things are working. Apart from the typical sizing questions, the discussion focused on where I should be on the bike (weight distribution), butted vs. different gauged tubing sets, and implementation of new standards 44mm headtube, disc brake mounts and cabling options. I left the fitting feeling confident in what is going to come out if it.

Build/geometry sheet for approval soon.

where did you do the fit session? ride studio cafe? hope it turns out as well as it sounds it will.

[mtb_frk]

I keep coming back and looking at this bike. I really think the steel version will be in my future.

[jbay]

How did I miss a thread featuring my own bike?!? Well, looking at the date of the first posts, I was back in the auld sod, riding my [brother's] bike and ignoring computers. Timing!

My bike is one of three quite different prototypes that would go on to define Seven's Evergreen model. Even then, given how much Seven can, and do, customise frames, picking a given model really only defines a starting point or theme.

Moving on to some of the comments and questions:

Shame about the levers and the bottle cages.Love or hate the appearance of the levers, I quickly came to appreciate the extra hand positions provided by the proboscis. And you'll have to pry those bottle cages from my cold, dead hands!

Weird. All the pictures are Enve forks (tapered disc cx), but the specs say Whiskey No. 5, which is straight, alloy steerer, 45mm rake...I think the Whisky is the basic fork choice, if you will, while the Enve is an upgrade.

Not a fan of the SRAM hydraulic levers w/ classic bend bars. They really clash in a bad way. I bet they work nicely though.Classic bend 'bars. Irish bars. Gay bars. Are there any other types?

Now that I've offended almost everyone, I'll add that my hands are allergic to everything except deep reach, deep drop, class bend 'bars. Combined with the SRAM hydraulic levers, bliss was the result.

That bike [...] is a beauty and anyone who thinks otherwise has likely already forsaken all that is good and pure in this world.I was going to put it a little more mildly myself, but I don't feel too bad about quoting that!


So the Enve fork doesn't have fender mounts, right? I think both versions of the whiskey does. So that kind of drives the spec of the bike. It looks like a awesome bike though.
Seven can do some really cool things to
carbon forks if rack and fender mounts are your cup 0'
tea.Polyhistoric has very good taste in tea and many other things. As he mentions, Seven work with carbon too and, while it's a little hard to see in the photo, did add fender mounts to my fork. Here's a photo of the bike in its Wintergreen mode (note to trademark lawyers reading this thread: that's a (hopefully temporary) nickname, okay?)

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-vh4IWp3oMy4/Uu16VZESu_I/AAAAAAAAKag/WlquINTQrlw/s1280/DSC06475.jpg

Isn't the obvious answer: because the owner wanted them? I think on this particular bike the owner wanted the ability to switch between 700 and 650B wheels.

According to the website, you can have an Evergreen built for cantis or v-brakes by request. So have it your way!Correct on both counts, thanks!


The one application that makes sense for me would be a winter/rain/snow commuter and trainer. If I still lived in Oregon's rain, disc would be desirable.

But as you say, for many road or gravel uses, I'm a little foggy on their advantages. Hope you dig your new ride a lot.In my previous commute, which featured stop signs at the bottom of 15% descents - I didn't have to go that way, but hey! - I had to replace the front rim every year on my cantilever-braked bike. So yes, I agree about the utility for commuting.

Regarding the advantages on gravel, in the 19 hours of the 2011 Green Mountain Double (http://pedalpowerphotography.com/action/velo/gmdc/index.php)

18 of which were enjoyed in the rain, I not only wore out brand new rims (Velocity A23s, for the record) but I dreamed of disks. The immediate response when you pull the lever, coupled with the modulation that the hydraulic options, in particular, offer, are an attractive combination when you're riding some of gnarliest "road" descents you can dream of - and in teeming rain to boot.

Add to that the high probability of denting a rim on descents like that (using 35mm tyres with 57mm reach brakes, in my case) and trying to deal with the resultant braking problems makes disks an attractive option in my eyes.

"Use bigger tyres," I hear some say. Agreed, but until disk brakes became a
viable alternative, that entailed using either cantilevers or centre-pulls. In high pad-wear situations, however, both are very undesirable in my eyes. The pads on the former start to stick and then dive under the rim, while the pads on the latter start to rise and nibble away at the tyre sidewall until - bang!

So, there you have it!

-- John

[Climb01742]

jbay, your 'wintergreen' is sweet, indeed. beautifully executed. the painted stem and fork are great small touches. seven (and you!) are certainly up to some very interesting things. now if we can just get the snow to stop falling here in beantown...

[jbay]

now if we can just get the snow to stop falling here in beantown...I'll drink to that!

--John

[Fixed]

Cool bikes
Cheers
Thanks for sharing

[MattTuck]

I'll drink to that!

--John

Where in Watertown are you? Did I already ask you this?

I used to live on Barnard Ave.

[jbay]

Where in Watertown are you? Did I already ask you this?

I used to live on Barnard Ave.Hi Matt,

I'm in the odd part of Watertown south of the river, in between Newton Corner and Nonantum. I don't know what the logic was behind drawing up the town boundaries like that!

-- John

[jbay]

And here's another photo, while I'm at it:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-9EB1L1RWH6w/Uu16a8Lce3I/AAAAAAAAKbA/WjK_dllHpJc/s1024/DSC06485.jpg

There's a slick custom generator light mount in the mix.

-- John

[saab2000]

Here's a shot of my Independent Fabrication Gravel Royale. It's more or less complete at this point with some possible tweaking of the saddle and seat post. Not sure of my position on this bike, which is slightly different from my road position.

I won a raffle for a Gravel Royale frameset. The standard is steel and I bought an upgrade to Ti and did a bit of playing with the paint. They were very helpful and flexible in working with me on these things.

I don't mean to take away from a Seven thread but since these bikes are getting more popular and I had mentioned mine I thought I'd pipe in with a comment or two and a pic.

Since riding with huge tires could happen I asked for extra space for fenders and big tires and have mounts for fenders and even racks. I would imagine some design compromises were involved with these requests but you wouldn't know it by riding it. One day I may well have fenders and racks for some more adventuresome rides.

The tires are some Ruffy Tuffys I already had and are decent for road riding but I plan to use Michelin Jets for gravel. I may even attempt some tubeless stuff as the wheels are made for them.

Standard Shimano 9000 group set which is new to me and TRP Spyre disc brakes, which work well, especially with some compressionless housing provided by TRP when I got the new brakes from the now infamous Spyre recall. They work really nicely.

Going for a spin on it right now.

Unfortunately, there are no gravel roads where I currently live so for now I'm stuck on the paved roads and it's a nice bike there too.

[mtb_frk]

Did you go with custom geometry or their signature sizing?

Your bike is the background on my computer at work btw. :)

And here's another photo, while I'm at it:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-9EB1L1RWH6w/Uu16a8Lce3I/AAAAAAAAKbA/WjK_dllHpJc/s1024/DSC06485.jpg

There's a slick custom generator light mount in the mix.

-- John

[jbay]

Did you go with custom geometry or their signature sizing?

Your bike is the background on my computer at work btw. :)Mine has custom geometry, but it doesn't diverge very far from the signature sizing. I think I have a slightly steeper seat angle and chainstays which are a little bit shorter.

I also have an eccentric bottom bracket which gives me a way to tension the chain if I blow up the rear mech. in the middle of nowhere. The eccentric also gives me the means of changing the bottom bracket height. I like it low, which gives descending and cornering a certain je ne sais quoi. However, I can also flip the eccentric into the upper portion of the shell for extra pedal clearance if I'm riding trails or taking advantage of the disk brakes and swapping in (smaller diameter) 650B wheels.

You should be safe at work with the bike as a background. ;)

-- John

P.S. Here's yet another photo:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-X6KibX6QVgU/UvkttLPq3_I/AAAAAAAAKeQ/zQGvrO-c70s/s1280/R0014873.jpg

[jbay]

Here's a shot of my Independent Fabrication Gravel Royale.Very nice! What are the widest tyres you can fit, out of curiosity? And how is heel clearance with the low-mount dropouts?

I'm hoping to try out the Spyre brakes soon myself.

-- John

[sparky33]

winter crankset? Does it play nice with Yaw front derailleur?

[saab2000]

Very nice! What is the widest tyres you can fit, out of curiosity? And how is heel clearance with the low-mount dropouts?

I'm hoping to try out the Spyre brakes soon myself.

-- John

I don't know on the tires but huge would be my best guess.... I am willing to bet I could fit 33mm tires with fenders and bigger tires without. And those numbers may be conservative. There is a ton of space for fat tires and regular road tires would seem absurd on this thing. The 28mm Ruffy Tuffys look narrow.

As to heel clearance, well, it's fairly close but I have a good pedal stroke and don't ever hit my heel. Also, I have my cleats set in order to have my feet as close to the crank as possible and even so have no issues. So I'd say it's all good. I just rode it for an hour and it's a really nice ride. I just wish I had someplace close by where I could really push it to its design limitations. Where I currently live in Virginia Beach there are only flat, paved roads.

[jbay]

winter crankset? Does it play nice with Yaw front derailleur?Good eye! It's the winter/trail riding crank with a 42T outer chainring. It saves me from depressing myself by looking at power numbers right now too...

Using the "winter" crank with the eccentric in the upper position, the front mech. adjustment is the same as a 50T chainring in the lower position, so it's a pretty easy swap. A 1x11 setup would be simpler still, of course, but I don't think anyone is making the cassette that would make that idea viable for me.

Regarding the Yaw derailleur, I wasn't confident it would work before I tried it. I ended up needing to adjust the chainline of the "winter" crank, which uses nominal 9/10-speed chainrings with what is otherwise an 11-speed setup, out just a hair. The eccentric allowed the chainline adjustment too, and the front shifting is wonderful. That said, you don't need to switch off the 42 outer ring too often!

I know, I know, Ti Designs does everything on fixed...

-- John

[jbay]

I don't know on the tires but huge would be my best guess.... I am willing to bet I could fit 33mm tires with fenders and bigger tires without. And those numbers may be conservative. There is a ton of space for fat tires and regular road tires would seem absurd on this thing. The 28mm Ruffy Tuffys look narrow.Perfect. Sounds like you and Indy Fab took advantage of the disks.

As to heel clearance, well, it's fairly close but I have a good pedal stroke and don't ever hit my heel. Also, I have my cleats set in order to have my feet as close to the crank as possible and even so have no issues. So I'd say it's all good.I'm glad to hear that. Unfortunately for me, my left heel is determined to swing inwards, so I have to bear clearance in mind, especially on a fat-tyred bike with disks.

I just rode it for an hour and it's a really nice ride. I just wish I had someplace close by where I could really push it to its design limitations. Where I currently live in Virginia Beach there are only flat, paved roads.Understood. For a big city, Boston has some great opportunities nearby but, to really push the envelope, you need to venture a little further afield too.

-- John

[saab2000]

Perfect. Sounds like you and Indy Fab took advantage of the disks.

I'm glad to hear that. Unfortunately for me, my left heel is determined to swing inwards, so I have to bear clearance in mind, especially on a fat-tyred bike with disks.

Understood. For a big city, Boston has some great opportunities nearby but, to really push the envelope, you need to venture a little further afield too.

-- John

I have nothing but superlatives for the folks at IF. There have been zero issues with the bike they sent me. No followup or anything that I had to do. It has taken me some time to find my position because it's a new kind of bike for me and the position is somewhat different. I am using some new handlebars here which give a very nice position for the D/A levers.

They know their stuff up there in New Hampshire, that's for sure.

One tip I will give as to the brakes - you MUST have compressionless housing. When the Spyres were recalled it was announced that they would send out new housing. It's good but I suspect that Yokozuna housing might be even better. It certainly gets rave reviews and might be money well spent though apparently it's a bit challenging to work with. The TRP stuff is very nice and seems like shifter cable housing. It is FAR better than the Shimano housing the bike had on before. I am totally sold on the compressionless housing and am tempted to put it on a road bike to try it out.

It not only make the brakes crisper when squeezing them, the actual brake responsiveness while riding is much better too as all your finger power goes to stopping. The difference between the regular housing and the compressionless housing is dramatic.

[St2946]

Why did I even click on this thread, now I need/want one!

[jbay]

One tip I will give as to the brakes - you MUST have compressionless housing. When the Spyres were recalled it was announced that they would send out new housing. It's good but I suspect that Yokozuna housing might be even better. It certainly gets rave reviews and might be money well spent though apparently it's a bit challenging to work with. The TRP stuff is very nice and seems like shifter cable housing. It is FAR better than the Shimano housing the bike had on before. I am totally sold on the compressionless housing and am tempted to put it on a road bike to try it out.I'm using Jagwire compressionless housing with disks on our tandem and SRAM-branded compressionless housing with BB7s on the Evergreen as it's currently built, and I agree with your assessment.

I am also using Yokozuna housing with regular brakes. The "regular brakes," in my case, are 57mm reach Tektro 539s. I've seen reviews from some forumites in which they seem unhappy with their braking power. However, I've used them to slow me down in places like the Dolomites, while carrying two people's gear, and I have no complaints at all. Perhaps the compressionless housing makes that much of a difference? I just remembered too that Seven also "modded" the front brake with a customised extra-long Berthoud brake nut, which stiffens up the front brake and must contribute to the overall feel. Returning to the Yokozuna housing though, my only quibble is that the end-caps are a little oversized and clunky looking.

-- John

[jbay]

Why did I even click on this thread, now I need/want one!Fate. That was your seventh post on the forum, I see!

-- John

[eBAUMANN]

this thing is fantastic, I've been up close and personal with a few others as well (wilcox and matt roy's), really fine machines all around, no doubt about it.

BUT (commense mild rant)

can you explain to me how (if at all) this frame differ's from a mud honey? tubing spec aside, what sets it apart enough to designate a new model name?

from where I'm sitting, its a disc cx bike with fenders and a few other custom options, but nothing outside the realm of what i would expect to be able to spec on any custom cx order.

to dig myself even deeper ;) i'm having trouble grasping the whole "gravel grinder" idea in general…to me it just sounds like another excuse to build up a new bike (which I'm all for, don't get me wrong) - but see in my book, a cx bike IS a gravel grinder, ready-made! :banana:

the differences in geometry (ATMO) really aren't great enough (from road to "gravel" to cx) to justify more than 2 separate bikes, if that.

just my 2c on the subject, not trying to hate or anything ;)

[Oregonic]

this thing is fantastic, I've been up close and personal with a few others as well (wilcox and matt roy's), really fine machines all around, no doubt about it.

BUT (commense mild rant)

can you explain to me how (if at all) this frame differ's from a mud honey? tubing spec aside, what sets it apart enough to designate a new model name?

from where I'm sitting, its a disc cx bike with fenders and a few other custom options, but nothing outside the realm of what i would expect to be able to spec on any custom cx order.

to dig myself even deeper ;) i'm having trouble grasping the whole "gravel grinder" idea in general…to me it just sounds like another excuse to build up a new bike (which I'm all for, don't get me wrong) - but see in my book, a cx bike IS a gravel grinder, ready-made! :banana:

the differences in geometry (ATMO) really aren't great enough (from road to "gravel" to cx) to justify more than 2 separate bikes, if that.

just my 2c on the subject, not trying to hate or anything ;)

I'm with you. Really, I can only see a difference if you've got a CX bike with an exceptionally high BB or slack HA. Then, I could see things being a bit more squirrely on loose gravel roads. But, to your point, if you don't have those issues, then a CX bike is fine, IMHO. Not to take away from the fine machines above, which are beautiful, and I would ride all day given the chance.

[saab2000]

If you already own a cyclocross bike with bottle cage bosses there's not much point. I agree with that. I don't own one or I might not have my IF.

But with my IF there are a few more possibilities, like the rack mounts and fender mounts and of course, moving into new technology like disc brakes. They are, of course, not even close to new, but they are evolving for the road bike market and this is closer to a road bike than a mountain bike.

Anyway, I agree with the idea that if you already have a cross bike this might not make sense but for those looking for something new you can optimize the design.

I'll probably never race on mine so I can ignore cross racing design characteristics.

I enjoy mine so far but I haven't had the chance to get it dirty yet.

[Oregonic]

If you already own a cyclocross bike with bottle cage bosses there's not much point. I agree with that. I don't own one or I might not have my IF.

But with my IF there are a few more possibilities, like the rack mounts and fender mounts and of course, moving into new technology like disc brakes. They are, of course, not even close to new, but they are evolving for the road bike market and this is closer to a road bike than a mountain bike.

Anyway, I agree with the idea that if you already have a cross bike this might not make sense but for those looking for something new you can optimize the design.

I'll probably never race on mine so I can ignore cross racing design characteristics.

I enjoy mine so far but I haven't had the chance to get it dirty yet.

All fair points. I don't have discs or fender mounts on my CX bike (yet), but I expect I'll go discs at some point in the future, with the new Ultegra stuff. I also never understood CX bikes without bottle mounts, but I'm a bit practical, I guess. The IF is a great looking bike, by the way, as is the Seven.

[jbay]

this thing is fantastic, I've been up close and personal with a few others as well (wilcox and matt roy's), really fine machines all around, no doubt about it.

BUT (commense mild rant)

can you explain to me how (if at all) this frame differ's from a mud honey? tubing spec aside, what sets it apart enough to designate a new model name?

from where I'm sitting, its a disc cx bike with fenders and a few other custom options, but nothing outside the realm of what i would expect to be able to spec on any custom cx order.

to dig myself even deeper ;) i'm having trouble grasping the whole "gravel grinder" idea in general…to me it just sounds like another excuse to build up a new bike (which I'm all for, don't get me wrong) - but see in my book, a cx bike IS a gravel grinder, ready-made! :banana:

the differences in geometry (ATMO) really aren't great enough (from road to "gravel" to cx) to justify more than 2 separate bikes, if that.

just my 2c on the subject, not trying to hate or anything ;)Fair comment. For the technically savvy or those of a semantic leaning, I think there's a lot of overlap between what any two people might elect to call a 'cross bike or a "gravel grinder" (I don't care for the term, but it's out there, so I'll run with it for now). I think, too, that you could build a bike at either extreme that would be suboptimal for the other activity. I'm thinking of things like 'cross bikes with no water bottle mounts, for example. It's not the end of the world, but not ideal for a hot, dusty 200 miler on dirt/gravel/rocks.

I think the Mudhoney and Evergreen models exist both to define a starting point for a custom frame or bike and, probably most importantly [to Seven], to illustrate to potential customers that they have already built bikes to do these particular activities.

Regarding my frame, the only question I can truly answer is, how does it differ from how I would order a Mudhoney? Geometry wise, it has a substantially lower bottom bracket (8.4cm drop) than I would ask for on a dedicated 'cross frame. Other than that, I personally wouldn't look for much in the way of geometry changes, bar perhaps a more horizontal top tube to help with shouldering the bike. While I'm a traditionalist at heart (believe it or not), the sloping top tube causes more of Seven's Ti seatpost to be exposed, which results in a deluxe ride.

My frame also has many features - three bottle cage mounts, guides for generator cables, light mounts, fender mounts and an eccentric bottom bracket - that many, myself included, would probably not bother with on a dedicated 'cross machine. The feature aspect is, to me, probably the defining difference between the two models, or how I envision them being spec'd by others. They are details that matter to me on long distance, self-supported rides - on gravel or on regular ol' roads - but which are superfluous when racing 'cross.

So, ultimately, I think the choice of Mudhoney or Evergreen depends on which discipline you associate yourself most closely with. Or perhaps you prefer one name over the other. ;)

-- John