Mounting(or not mounting) tires on PL23s

[Dromen]

All the usual bloody fingers, wrecked tubes and blister comments go here.

Tried all the warming, stretching, special tools, even purchased Velotape cuz the cloth rim tape seemed too beefy....nadda. Emailed Pacenti 3 times for help, no reponse. Yes my spam filter is off.

If these weren't newly laced to my DA7700 hubs that match all the other 7700 components on the bike you would see these in the classifieds.
BTW, also own a wheelset with same 23mm wide TB14s from H+Son and have zero mounting issues.

Wish i woulda known.

Feel better now, wont the next road flat.

[bikeridah]

Same here. Punctured 2 tubes already. Have a roll on stans rim tape ready to go for attempt #2 on the rear wheel.

Did you try soapy water?

[Dromen]

and powder. I eventually got it with levers but at the rate i went thru tubes to get to the top of the 'mount'ain, i will need to take a backpack full of them on the road.

Good Luck. If you figure out the secret handshake, i have cash.

[ryker]

Pacenti has a Paceline thread BTW. Might be a good way to go if you're not connecting by email. Kirk seems like a good dude.

The TB14 is not comparable to the PL23 just because they're both wide rims. A tubeless rim is going to be more challenging. I have dealt with both and agree the former is easier but the Pacenti hasn't been too bad for me. Depends on your tire too. I think it gets a lot harder once you become frustrated instead of treating it like a puzzle. If you've got mates waiting for you at the side of the road, well it's hard.

http://www.spokeservice.ca/blog/mounting-tight-tires

[Ralph]

Put the tires on some other wheels first overnight. Maybe they'll stretch some. That's what I do.

[plattyjo]

It definitely depends on the tires, I think. I left the cloth rim tape on (without realizing these were such a headache to mount), but somehow my husband managed (through much cursing) to get them on there with just his hands and sheer will. But the tires were a slightly used set of Grand Bois; the new ones just flat out refused to mount. After doing some internet research, I realized that I needed to get thinner rim tape (which I figured I'd substitute in when I felt like having a crappy day.) But I just had my first flat the other day, and it wasn't too bad getting the rear tire off and on as it had stretched out within two months' time.

[hainy]

sounds like my post on the Velocity A23. Tubeless compatible rims.

I swapped mine out for an open pro

[choke]

A tubeless rim is going to be more challenging.
sounds like my post on the Velocity A23. Tubeless compatible rims.I think that's the real problem. I've seen numerous posts of people complaining about mounting tires on _____ rim and in almost every case that rim is tubeless compatible.

It's such a recurring theme that while PL23s would be perfect for a wheelset I plan to build I'll probably go with a normal rim, especially since I plan to mount Challenge tires on them.

[thwart]

Had some good luck a few weeks ago when I needed to mount very tight new Vittoria Corsa CX's on some Campy Nucleon rims. Decided to mount the tires sans tubes, using some steel levers and lots of force (thankfully the rims tolerated this abuse with minimal scuffing). I let 'em sit indoors for a week, and then mounted the tires with tubes in the usual manner with plastic levers, but actually mostly by hand.

Worked great. The week of stretching really made a huge difference.

[Dromen]

Heres the line up:
1. New 25mm Gatorskins
2. New 23mm Vittoria EVO CX
3. Used 23mm "
4. Used 25mm " (took them fully inflated off another wheelset)
5. Used 23mm Mich Pro3
6. Used 25mm Schwalbe Ultremo ZX(from fully inflated wheelset - these are my easiest on/off tires)

Had em in the oven, used metal levers, broke a Pedro's lever, soap, powder, etc.

Went to old school shop next day. Was shown how to use levers to install without flatting the tube. It was still very difficult. Only used my hands prior to the PL23.(Even some Thwart Electrons only req me thumbs)

They may be tubeless friendly, not clincher friendly.

[Louis]

I haven't tried 'em yet, but several guys on this forum swear by the Kool Stop Lever Jacks (top). Others like the VAR levers.

http://www.excelsports.com/image/Kool%20Stop%20Tire%20Bead%20Jack%20with%20Handle.j pg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0FnYfCss98Q/TZqU8Qhwv9I/AAAAAAAABB4/sC5-47cgIlk/s1600/VAR-TireLever+RandonneurExtra1+500+2011-04-04.jpg

http://cdn.mos.bikeradar.com/images/bikes-and-gear/tools/cycling-tools/tyre-levers/1295868814912-1snccuxob5ecp-399-80.jpg

[HillDancer]

I copied and paraphrased this from another thread....When installing a tire on a TR rim, push the first section of bead over the rim wall, and place the bead into the center channel while working the rest of the tire bead on...After pushing the bead over on one side, partially inflate a tube and fit within tire and around the rim, partially deflate the tube, push the remaining bead over, starting on the side opposite the valve stem end, squeeze the bead into the center channel, and open the tube stem valve while working the tire on. I don't have any problems with the tube being captured outside the rim, between tire and rim wall, or pinched by tire lever using this method.

I use a bead jack for stubborn tires.
Because TR rims in general have a higher bead shelf, and Pacenti rims specifically, the tire bead needs to be set in the center channel at the start to allow the bead to be pulled over at the end. This is also the reason to start at the opposite end of the valve stem, then complete the pull over at the valve stem.

[etu]

Had a similar experience with the PL23's when I had cloth rim tape, but after replacing them with stan's rim tape, no problem with gran bois tires. had to make sure the beads were at the center of the well and finish at the valve, but able to mount by hand without too much effort.

[plattyjo]

I haven't tried 'em yet, but several guys on this forum swear by the Kool Stop Lever Jacks (top). Others like the VAR levers.

http://www.excelsports.com/image/Kool%20Stop%20Tire%20Bead%20Jack%20with%20Handle.j pg



Just got one of these; it's pretty awesome.

[Louis]

Just got one of these; it's pretty awesome.

But I'm guessing too big for a "normal" (ie smallish) saddle bag, correct?

Edit: Not that that's a reason to not buy one. I assume all tires will stretch over time, so if you use something like that for the original mounting (at home) then as long as you don't flat right away, you're probably fine.

[jlwdm]

Had a similar experience with the PL23's when I had cloth rim tape, but after replacing them with stan's rim tape, no problem with gran bois tires. had to make sure the beads were at the center of the well and finish at the valve, but able to mount by hand without too much effort.

Lots of discussions on RBR in Wheels and Tires Section. Mostly re SL23s though. Center of the well and two layers of Stan's tape seem to be important. No cloth tape or veloplugs.

Jeff

[Ryun]

Both my SL23s and PL23s are hugely difficult to mount. Really a spoiler for what are both nice wheelsets.
My solution has been rox rimstrips along with using the VAR levers.
Did kill a bunch of tubes trying to mount vittorias and challenge tires. Finally got some veloflex masters to work with a bunch of stretching. Even after being on there a couple of months, you still need to use the tool to get the tires on.

[Dromen]

Research before purchasing:crap:

Research before purchasing:crap:


Research before purchasing:crap:


Looks like a VAR should probably be in the tool box/bag anyway. Can someone comment on the size of a VAR and if it takes up more space than two standard tire levers?

Thanks all for giving me some PL23 hope. They are handsome rims.

[Dromen]

Did some RESEARCH.

Pedro levers(2) - 3cm X 2.5 X 11
VAR levers - 2.2cm X 2.2 X 13.5
Kool Stop Lever Jack - approx 20cm long(all info I could find)

[Louis]

Did some RESEARCH.

Pedro levers(2) - 3cm X 2.5 X 11
VAR levers - 2.2cm X 2.2 X 13.5
Kool Stop Lever Jack - approx 20cm long(all info I could find)

Interesting. On the road I just carry "simple" levers and so far haven't had any problems using those to fix a flat. But every now and then I have had problems with first-time installations. I think the fancier tools are a good idea for the home shop, but not necessarily needed for roadside work.

[ColonelJLloyd]

I own both the Kool Stop Tire Jack and the VAR Tire Jack. I find myself reaching for the VAR most often when I encounter a hard to mount tire. It'll fit fine in any seat pouch or jersey pocket.

[Dromen]

If you would like to buy the VAR domestically, i found this place.....

http://northroadbicycle.com/

[nighthawk]

If you would like to buy the VAR domestically, i found this place.....

http://northroadbicycle.com/

That website is like a cruel mind puzzle that I can't figure out. If you could point me to where exactly the Var tool is for sale I would appreciate it. All I could find are quotes from a dog and a picture of hinault's old cycling shoes.

[Louis]

That website is like a cruel mind puzzle that I can't figure out.

+1

Looks like they have eccentric stuff (and I don't mean ENO single-speed hubs) so I'm not that surprised that the site "organization" is also eccentric.

[Dromen]

Call or email. Gilbert responded in 15 minutes to email. Cool chap.