How do Pros do this ?

[Ahneida Ride]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tFpNsZXWgc

I find this truly unbelievable.

[Louis]

skill + practice + insanity

Do they sweep the roads before races like this? Gravel in the corners is what would really scare me.

[cash05458]

cool stuff...I get nervous at 40 mph...worry about a damn squirrel running out...long straightish roads tho in vid...looks like alot of fun actually...

[Louis]

Knowing that there won't (shouldn't?) be any traffic coming in the other direction also helps.

[SPOKE]

I've hit 56mph decending from Mt Pisgah on the Blue Ridge Parkway....made my a$$ pucker going thru the first tunnel too....:()

I nearly made our pal Smiley jump out of his skin when I passed by him on a very nice decent in Saratoga several years ago.....:)

Speed is my friend..... Just wish my friend helped me get up the climbs these days.

[pinoymamba]

they get paid to do it?

[Lovetoclimb]

For non professionals like myself I look at the risk/reward of that sort of thing. Just so much that can go wrong and above 40mph I really don't feel comfortable anymore. Certainly wish I could nail corners and switchbacks faster for efficiency purposes but oh well.

[ctcyclistbob]

Right near the end of the video the guy is pedaling. How big a gear do you need to pedal at 100kph :confused:

[rain dogs]

My theory would be that being chased by a peloton, on a closed course, with professional dollars at stake, helps with the motivation something fierce.

That's not so hard to envision, but I'll admit, when Samuel Sanchez was descending with only one hand on the bars in 2011... stage 19... doing about 100kmph.. rapidly closing the gap to the leaders, solo... while he was eating and going through his jersey pockets with the other hand... that seemed scary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpAizXzkTDI (around the 1:49:30 mark)

Especially after Jens crash in 2009... the thought of that crash... or had Sammy lost control, thinking about that makes me feel ill.

[weisan]

nuttin' like Fabian...:rolleyes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_wEG2RNMJc
Wait till you get to 1:28 min into the video clip.

[deluxerider]

I think it really helps when you can use the whole of the road.

[Lovetoclimb]

I think it really helps when you can use the whole of the road.

On that note I have definitely crashed before due to slick centerlines! New tarmac usually means new paint which is like ice.

[rice rocket]

They also run a ton more bar drop than most everyone and can weight the front end, and a long ass stem, both which helps steering stability.

[tv_vt]

That initial youtube video sure is out of a time machine. Jaschke, Perreiro w/Phonak,... Seems like all that was a long long time ago.

[Matt-H]

IMO, that descent looks pretty damn perfect.

[fuzzalow]

The course layout of the road in the first video is nowhere near as treacherous as the descent off the Col de Galibier as shown in the second video. In the first video, the roadway is fairly straight in that the curves are mostly long sweepers and the sightline is open pretty far down range. In contrast to the Galibier descent which has tighter curves with the double whammy that those curves restrict visibility far enough down the road.

There is a rule smart sportbike motorcyclists adhere to - "Go only as fast as you can see". On public roads with a sportbike it is an issue of survival. But true also for a racing cyclist on a closed roadway because the lack of visibility effects being able to pick a line through the curves for corner entry, apex and exit. So getting it wrong means either running out of road or trying to adjust the line very late in the corner approach. Changing lines makes a pedal bike run out of tire grip & brake capacity pretty fast.

At speed, these pros only have 1 shot at getting it right. Mad skills with mondo courage.

[swPArider]

60+ mph and that guy needed a push from the other rider! i'll get up to 45 mph or so on some back roads that I ride often and I'm always really worried about leaning the bike over at all. just a little gravel or a squirrel and you're going to be in a world of hurt.

[FlashUNC]

When I was young and stupid I hit 50+ on a mountain descent here in NC.

The sound of the wind coming by changed to something I'd never heard before, and that definitely freaked me out a bit.

[VA-Scooter]

Hit low 50s coming off mountains in Va. Only on the straight stretches and not for very long -- Get nervous and sit up.

[onekgguy]

Mid 50s on some hills across the border in Wisconsin is not all that uncommon. Thoughts of what happens if you puncture aren't allowed.

Kevin g

[carpediemracing]

I used to be okay with high speed descents, the steeper the better. I'd sprint and spin out my top gear, usually hitting 45-50 mph doing so, tuck, and wait for the wind to change noise as I accelerated.

The difficult thing is making turns at very high speeds. I almost didn't make a sweeping curve at close to 60 mph because I didn't realize how much effort I'd have to make to make the bike turn a bit. This was a road descending off of a plateau just behind/above some baseball stadium in San Diego. The road had a highway exit ramp to merge with the highway below, and there was a bike able lane on said highway.

The other thing is that wavy pavement can set up a harmonic up-down motion with the bike. I had basically a high speed vertical wobble, if you will, my chest thumping against my bars/stem so hard I thought I was going to flip over the bike. The pavement didn't seem iffy at all at slow speeds (it was some road just outside of Kent, CT). On another road, the one connecting UCONN to East Hartford (Route 44), a similar vertical wobble caused me to burn the bottom of my chin on my front tire. I was lucky not to have bitten my tongue off when my chin hit the tire.

Now 50 mph and I'm pretty much at my limit. I prefer marginally slower descents that have tons of hard turns, like Palomar. I hit only 45-49 mph but the braking, diving into turns, that's the fun part for me.

If I'm pedaling and in the drops then going faster is okay. Tucking and coasting, I think way too much now.

[martl]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tFpNsZXWgc

I find this truly unbelievable.

Yes, i believe the roads are swept (and often freshly paved) for the TdF.

What i find unbelievable are the 100km/h. Motor vehicle speedometers often cheat.
That road doesn't look steep enough to allow that kind of speed - it is on the Cormet de Roselend (http://www.quaeldich.de/paesse/cormet-de-roselend/profile/) which hardly exceeds 10% and is at the typical 7-8% most of the time.

In my experience, and i did a lot of riding in the alps, very few descents do have the steepness *and* long straights to reach 100. Even at the famous Fedaia (http://www.quaeldich.de/paesse/passo-di-fedaia/profile/ostanfahrt-von-caprile_a/) descent towards Malga Ciapela, which has an extremely long straight topping 14%, i found it hard to scratch on that mark going solo, and not for lack of trying :D. (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emG-hI-h3uI at 3:10 for the place)
In a group, it may be easier.

The only spot i ever reached more than 100 was the "Kühtai" shortly before "Gries im Sellrain" which is part of the Öztal marathon. (see http://www.quaeldich.de/paesse/kuehtaisattel/profile/). That is a section that makes you feel you are standing on top of a ski jump. (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qufU1DA-Nlk at 7:10 for the spot)

In most descents, speeds between 70 and 85 are realistic for a solo rider. Those speeds are absolutely comfortably manageable for an experienced rider, which i take it most pros will be, considering they spend ~35.000km a year in the saddle.

[rustychisel]

Yes, i believe the roads are swept (and often freshly paved) for the TdF.

What i find unbelievable are the 100km/h. Motor vehicle speedometers often cheat.
That road doesn't look steep enough to allow that kind of speed - it is on the Cormet de Roselend (http://www.quaeldich.de/paesse/cormet-de-roselend/profile/) which hardly exceeds 10% and is at the typical 7-8% most of the time.

In my experience, and i did a lot of riding in the alps, very few descents do have the steepness *and* long straights to reach 100. Even at the famous Fedaia (http://www.quaeldich.de/paesse/passo-di-fedaia/profile/ostanfahrt-von-caprile_a/) descent towards Malga Ciapela, which has an extremely long straight topping 14%, i found it hard to scratch on that mark going solo, and not for lack of trying :D. (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emG-hI-h3uI at 3:10 for the place)
In a group, it may be easier.

The only spot i ever reached more than 100 was the "Kühtai" shortly before "Gries im Sellrain" which is part of the Öztal marathon. (see http://www.quaeldich.de/paesse/kuehtaisattel/profile/). That is a section that makes you feel you are standing on top of a ski jump. (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qufU1DA-Nlk at 7:10 for the spot)

In most descents, speeds between 70 and 85 are realistic for a solo rider. Those speeds are absolutely comfortably manageable for an experienced rider, which i take it most pros will be, considering they spend ~35.000km a year in the saddle.


I tend to concur, though touching 100kmh on The Cormet de Roseland I suggest is possible. I once postulated on this forum that for an 'average' cyclist to exceed 80kmh is actually quite difficult - due to roads, skill, and wind resistance et al, and predictably enough I was howled down by the brigade who have all gone faster stronger, better longer than anyone else.

That, of course, is why you read every time someone on a bike forum asks the question "What's your top speed?". Oh yeah, 150, easy...

[Mark McM]

Right near the end of the video the guy is pedaling. How big a gear do you need to pedal at 100kph :confused:

On 700c wheels with a top gear of 53/11, you'd have to pedal at 166 rpm to go 100 kph. This is doable (at least for short bursts), but it didn't look like the rider was pedaling quite that fast, so he probably wasn't going 100 kph.

[gmcampy]

My best is 54 MPH downhill from Mt. Piscah on the BRP.....still scary!

[gavingould]

I recall Thor Hushovd coming down the Col d'Aubisque and hitting (reportedly) 70mph. Stage 13, TdF 2011 in the World Champ stripes. Whether the speed was true or not, that ride from him was one of the best I've seen- absolutely dismantled Roy and Moncoutie.

[zap]

I've hit 56mph decending from Mt Pisgah on the Blue Ridge Parkway....made my a$$ pucker going thru the first tunnel too....:()



My wife and I were there while on our honeymoon. Back then we had a cycling computer……we hit 55mph on our tandem and then my wife got scared, sat up and the windbreaker acted like a chute. I guess passing RV's and having a steep descent on the right was just too much.

I really wanted to hit 60+mph….58 remains my top speed…on a single.

But the above was all on fairly straight roads. What the Pro's do…….thats something special.

[pdmtong]

That initial youtube video sure is out of a time machine. Jaschke, Perreiro w/Phonak,... Seems like all that was a long long time ago.

I remember watching that stage and that moment in particular live and when I saw his hand nudge oscar I couldn't believe it. Yea I get you can use the whole road and it's closed but man oh man that takes nerve. Of course these are pros and they didn't just jump from video game level three to level nine overnight

[martl]

On 700c wheels with a top gear of 53/11, you'd have to pedal at 166 rpm to go 100 kph. This is doable (at least for short bursts), but it didn't look like the rider was pedaling quite that fast, so he probably wasn't going 100 kph.

Jobst Brandt thinks that above 60-70km/h you cause more damage to your wind resistance than you add to your speed by pedalling. My experience shows this is true.

Very big riders like Hushovd have an advantage over the small jockeys. I know, i am one of the jockeys, and one of the few times i had trouble holding on to a wheel at a descent was behind a 6ft6 guy that weighed 120kg.

(the other one was behind a one-armed paralympics winner on the descent from the Stelvio. If you think the video up in posting #1 is scary you have no idea :D)

[mike p]

I can fly downhills just fine. What I don't get is how pro's get up them so fast :-)!

Mike

[aramis]

I can fly downhills just fine. What I don't get is how pro's get up them so fast :-)!

Mike

Pretty much. I'm much more impressed by how fast they go up the hills, in the flats, etc.. downhill requires some skill but most amateur motorcycle races probably takes more.

[velotel]

I can fly downhills just fine. What I don't get is how pro's get up them so fast :-)!

Mike
That's exactly what I've been thinking. Going down is just letting gravity go to work, ignoring your brakes, and going all aero. The straight bits are easy; it's the bendy pieces where things get interesting. I know I've hit well over 80 on the col above my house; somebody in a car behind me told me, with an impressive tone in her voice. She hit 80 chasing me and couldn't close, in fact was losing ground. That road is also not straight. On some other descents, like north side of Izoard in one long, steep, and straight section, I have little doubt at all that I hit 100. That was fun but really, 60 or 70 in the bends is way more fun than 100 in a straight. Actually even 50 in a good series of bends is way more fun. The only real trick is not thinking about how tiny your tires and wheels are. And how much it'll hurt if you go down. Not wearing a helmet helps too; keeps the focus honest.

[AgilisMerlin]

How do Pros do this ? / Isle of Man TT ...

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . depends a lot on whether I've ever been down that particular descent before. I've done 54 and change coming down Crawford Road locally, but I've been down that hill many times and know the best line. No way would I let it go like that coming down a hill I've never done before, or only done once, especially if there was any curve at all in the road that restricted visibility.

You often hear of pros going to the actual routes on the race to train in advance. They're reconnoitering the downhills as well as the ups. As other posters have said, that first video descent the road is undulating, but pretty open sightlines and it is closed to other traffic.

But still . . . basketball sized cojones on those guys!

BBD

[rain dogs]

That's exactly what I've been thinking. Going down is just letting gravity go to work, ignoring your brakes, and going all aero.

but that's just it. Hours of training, genetics, opportunity, dope... who knows the myriad of things that make a pro go uphill twice as fast as me.

... but going downhill, that's apples to apples.

I can tell you this, I ain't taking a hand off my bars going 70kmph, let alone 100. I'm not fishing for food in my pockets and eating going down Galibier full gas fast enough to catch four other pros.

These guys are pros because they've got the genes, VO2max etc. but they're also racers. Legit racing speed freaks.

[bewheels]

but that's just it. Hours of training, genetics, opportunity, dope... who knows the myriad of things that make a pro go uphill twice as fast as me.

... but going downhill, that's apples to apples



+1 Nicely said.

There are many aspecs of different cycling disaplines that are "equal" for anyone that wants to give it a go. Descending on a road bike is certainly on of them.

[oldpotatoe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tFpNsZXWgc

I find this truly unbelievable.

Lesseee.

-Pro bike racer-even the domestiques are paid pretty well...to ride a bicycle
-Big frn(yikes!!) or Euro/Asian counterpart bicycle, wheelset, tire.
-Tested and experienced wrenches, again paid pretty decent frns or Euro/Asian counterpart
-Open, traffic controlled roads

yep, some are better than others at this but

'obey gravity, it's the law'...

Have it rain...then some who can still do this, that's impressive.

[Mark McM]

Jobst Brandt thinks that above 60-70km/h you cause more damage to your wind resistance than you add to your speed by pedalling. My experience shows this is true.

I agree with this also, for steady state power. But you can put out more power in a short hard burst of pedaling than you lose in the extra air resistance. One way to get down a hill faster is the "sprint and tuck" technique. In this technique, the rider puts out a small sprint-type burst of pedaling to get their speed above their coasting only speed, and then immediately pulls into a tuck to maintain the extra speed as long as possible. Once their speed has decayed back to their coasting terminal velocity, they repeat the burst of pedaling, and then go back into their tight tuck.

Obviously, this technique takes more effort than only coasting, but it can the rider get down a hill a little faster than either coasting alone, or by continuously pedaling. In the video, the rider that is shown pedaling only does so in a short burst, so he may be using this technique.

[carpediemracing]

I agree with this also, for steady state power. But you can put out more power in a short hard burst of pedaling than you lose in the extra air resistance. One way to get down a hill faster is the "sprint and tuck" technique. In this technique, the rider puts out a small sprint-type burst of pedaling to get their speed above their coasting only speed, and then immediately pulls into a tuck to maintain the extra speed as long as possible. Once their speed has decayed back to their coasting terminal velocity, they repeat the burst of pedaling, and then go back into their tight tuck.

Obviously, this technique takes more effort than only coasting, but it can the rider get down a hill a little faster than either coasting alone, or by continuously pedaling. In the video, the rider that is shown pedaling only does so in a short burst, so he may be using this technique.

+1

Someone elsewhere posted a power meter of their efforts while drafting a dump truck at about 55-60 mph. It reflects this peak-coast-peak-coast effort. I think this is true of normal very high speed situations, like descents or drafting, when it's hard to pedal fast enough for any length of time.

This is how I would descend the fast bits - do a top speed effort then coast. 50 mph is not unreasonable in a top speed pedaling effort. On some descents I would accelerate significantly once I was tucked.

... but going downhill, that's apples to apples.

I can tell you this, I ain't taking a hand off my bars going 70kmph, let alone 100. I'm not fishing for food in my pockets and eating going down Galibier full gas fast enough to catch four other pros.

With a normal bike that doesn't have a speed wobble taking a hand off the bars isn't a traumatic experience. I wouldn't go fishing food out of a pocket at 50 mph but I think not many riders do. At 40 or 45, that's not unreasonable.

I've been called on some "no way you can move your hands from the tops to the drops while descending at xx mph" claims. It's not hard at all and it takes very little time. If I keep my eyes up the road then I have a lot of time to make those decisions in terms of upcoming corners, rough roads, etc.

I usually tuck while holding the bars next to the stem - it's more aero, it's faster, it lets me get more forward of the bars without wobbling, and it's more stable overall (less inadvertent steering input).

Of course the one main disadvantage is that I can't get to my brakes. To move my hands to the drops, both of them, one at a time, takes about half a second, using a very rough "one one thousand" count. I move between the two positions regularly on descents.

I much, much, much prefer the descents with corners because it's not about top speed cahones, it's about knowing how to corner. It has almost nothing to do with any kind of descending skills. Cornering skill/technique is free, requires no genetic ability except a minimum level of eyesight and coordination, and you can practice it virtually all the time during the day.

I bounce between the drops and tops in the descent at the end of this clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_o8CFeGG_g). It's hard to tell because my upper body doesn't change position much (I move forward a bit on the tops), the bike doesn't do anything telling. The only thing that gives it away is that if I look down while on the tops the camera won't see the front tire. Therefore if I look down a lot (to check behind me) and there's no tire, I'm tucked and on the tops. If I look down and there's a tire then I'm on the drops.

Incidentally I didn't go "all that fast" in the various sections of that clip. Yellow truck, 44 mph. White truck, 49 mph. Descent, not sure but I doubt I went faster than the mid 40s, it's not a steep descent.

[KJMUNC]

Those guys train and race on that stuff all the time, plus they're mostly in their 20's so they're bulletproof and invincible like we all were.

In my 20's I hit 60mph+ coming off the Tourmalet where there are no guardrails and it was my first descent of that road. I was also still sporting road rash and had just gotten stitches out of my knee from a 40mph crash in a race a few weeks prior. It helped that I was chasing a Cofidis pro on his day off, but that was all pre-wife and kids and I just figured sometimes you crash and get doctored up. Now I have no tolerance for crashing.

Just depends on your motivations and what you're used to I guess.

[Ahneida Ride]

Pretty much. I'm much more impressed by how fast they go up the hills, in the flats, etc.. downhill requires some skill but most amateur motorcycle races probably takes more.

Not me .... In theory I could work like an animal and become
a decent climber ... ( I said in theory ...... )

I could never descend .... impossible

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VrFV5r8cs0

[martl]

With a normal bike that doesn't have a speed wobble taking a hand off the bars isn't a traumatic experience. I wouldn't go fishing food out of a pocket at 50 mph but I think not many riders do. At 40 or 45, that's not unreasonable.

I've been called on some "no way you can move your hands from the tops to the drops while descending at xx mph" claims. It's not hard at all and it takes very little time.

It is actually quite easy. The faster a bike goes, the more stabile the ride is (centering forces of the front wheel). I find that by grabbing the handlebars with force, i actually add instability to a system that is stable in itself.

Riders who are comfortable on their bikes can and will hold the handlebars lightly.

As for going free-hands: i learned this while parcticing the "Abdoujaparov"-style: chin over the handlebar, arms tucked in, grabbing the bars with the
fingertips from underneath (aeronynamically still the most effective position). It is doable.

[54ny77]

dayum that looks like fun.

would love to do that on a closed road.

[rain dogs]

With a normal bike that doesn't have a speed wobble taking a hand off the bars isn't a traumatic experience.

I'm not at all worried about the bike, I'm worried about the road. You hit a heavy dip in the road, or a little sand, with one hand on the bars....everything is easy from the keyboard. If it can happen to Jens, it could probably happen to this non-professional.

I've descended my fair share of the big name European climbs at very high speeds, and had a few scary experiences because of road conditions.

It's like a table saw... a little cautious respect keeps you honest (and whole).

Guys like Sammy Sanchez/Nibali/Sagan don't have that option. They play it safe, they lose. I'm sure their peers respect their abilities, I certainly do. Maybe others think it's so easy, but I doubt it's what we think.

It's much, much more than just letting gravity do its thing, especially when you gain time pushing the limit just that much more than the next most aggressive guy behind you.

Edit: You can even see a good comparison between professionals in the vid I linked http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpAizXzkTDI. At ~1:52:40 Sanchez takes a left hander.... at ~1:53:29 Basso and Frank Schleck? take the same curve at much less speed and I doubt they're mindset is akin to a casual Sunday ride. There is certainly a skillset to descending.

[Bob Ross]

Knowing that there won't (shouldn't?) be any traffic coming in the other direction also helps.

I hadn't even thought of that, but yeah, ^^^This. Plus it's a mostly straight or gently curving descent with no obstacles blocking your view of the road ahead, cyclist can see a good ~300m ahead at all times, no hairpins or 90° turns, and the grade doesn't appear to be all that steep...hell, add that to No Oncoming Traffic Guaranteed and I know I'd be pushing as hard & fast as I could possibly go on that stretch.

But there are definitely other descents on the Tour where I know my nuts would curl up inside my abdomen and I'd lay on the brakes and concede long before nearing 60mph!

[oldpotatoe]

dayum that looks like fun.

would love to do that on a closed road.

This time of year I wander thru cycling race videos, mostly races in Belle Italia, cuz with single digit temps and snow coming...it's warm there....ahh, it's warm...

[carpediemracing]

I'm not at all worried about the bike, I'm worried about the road. You hit a heavy dip in the road, or a little sand, with one hand on the bars....everything is easy from the keyboard. If it can happen to Jens, it could probably happen to this non-professional.

I've descended my fair share of the big name European climbs at very high speeds, and had a few scary experiences because of road conditions.

It's like a table saw... a little cautious respect keeps you honest (and whole).

Guys like Sammy Sanchez/Nibali/Sagan don't have that option. They play it safe, they lose. I'm sure their peers respect their abilities, I certainly do. Maybe others think it's so easy, but I doubt it's what we think.

It's much, much more than just letting gravity do its thing, especially when you gain time pushing the limit just that much more than the next most aggressive guy behind you.

Edit: You can even see a good comparison between professionals in the vid I linked http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpAizXzkTDI. At ~1:52:40 Sanchez takes a left hander.... at ~1:53:29 Basso and Frank Schleck? take the same curve at much less speed and I doubt they're mindset is akin to a casual Sunday ride. There is certainly a skillset to descending.

Sanchez is definitely someone that pushes on descents. I have a DVD of a Tour of Switzerland (or Romandie? it's on the same DVD). Anyway the credit clip before each stage is of an Orbea, that's the race, and it's Sanchez's Orbea. He tries to get away on a descent and it's a bit nutty. What's interesting is how quickly the guys following him drop off.

The kicker is that you can always follow someone, at least that's my thought. It's hard to lead, with no motorcycle/car/knowledge-of-road. Sanchez leads a couple riders and he's following a camera bike. Yet the other guys can't hang with him.

In Tour of California the racers go down the same Wohlford descent I did in that clip. They end up on the camera bike's rear tire because the motorcyclist can't stay ahead.

[carpediemracing]

I had another thought back there, reading some of the posts.

When I was 14 I didn't know how to do a tuck. I asked an equally oblivious peer who said, oh, I know how, it's like this and he showed me.

He held the center of the bars like he was doing a curl.

So for a few years I'd do my tucks with my palm UNDER the top of the bar, thumbs on the outside, like I was going to curl my bike. This allowed me to get really far over the bars, dangerously so. I can't believe I never flipped over the front tire but my oblivious peer told me it's almost impossible and I believed him.

When I was 17 or so I learned that the tuck isn't like that, it's with your palms over the bar, just like holding the tops normally (it was a picture of Leonard Nitz in a tuck, complete with right side bar end, that clued me in). I was a bit disappointed that I couldn't get over the bars as far but the position felt much more stable.

I burned my chin while in my "curl" stage, not after. I've gotten close in the normal tuck days but I haven't hit those harmonic waves as hard or as unexpectedly, at least not to burn my chin. I've thumped my chest really hard off the stem/bar but that's it.

[martl]

The kicker is that you can always follow someone, at least that's my thought. It's hard to lead, with no motorcycle/car/knowledge-of-road.

True. I once followed a few motorbikers down the Col de Fenestre and had no trouble at all keeping up with them. (one of my most fun descents ever :))Their brake lights and engine sound told me all i needed to know about oncoming traffic and tightness of bends. I could make better use of the width of my lane than them. Also, a cycle will accelerate just as fast as a moderately to sporty driven motorcycle by just releasing the brakes and coasting. Of course, if a skilled motorcyclist wants to lose you, he will, he has about 100x the power/weight ratio, insane brakes and a lot more grip.

I had another thought back there, reading some of the posts.

When I was 14 I didn't know how to do a tuck. I asked an equally oblivious peer who said, oh, I know how, it's like this and he showed me.

He held the center of the bars like he was doing a curl.

So for a few years I'd do my tucks with my palm UNDER the top of the bar, thumbs on the outside, like I was going to curl my bike. This allowed me to get really far over the bars, dangerously so. I can't believe I never flipped over the front tire but my oblivious peer told me it's almost impossible and I believed him.

When I was 17 or so I learned that the tuck isn't like that, it's with your palms over the bar, just like holding the tops normally (it was a picture of Leonard Nitz in a tuck, complete with right side bar end, that clued me in). I was a bit disappointed that I couldn't get over the bars as far but the position felt much more stable.

I burned my chin while in my "curl" stage, not after. I've gotten close in the normal tuck days but I haven't hit those harmonic waves as hard or as unexpectedly, at least not to burn my chin. I've thumped my chest really hard off the stem/bar but that's it.

There really is no "right" or "wrong". Abdou tucked with his hands under the bar, but then he may not be your prime example of crash-free riding, though i don't know if he ever crashed on a descent (in sprints, he did a lot).
Anyway, both positions allow you do press the top tube between your legs and hold your center of gravity in the middle of the bike, which is essential for bike control. More weight on the front wheel will improve your braking capacity. As opposed to the positions sitting on the top tube or having your bum behind the saddle, both positions give less control of the bike. That being said, some pros show these positions as well, so what do i know :)

Prime factor is: you gotta trust your bike, be comfortable on it. I did a test once, coasting down a hill at maybe 55km/h, let the handlebars go and gave them a good smack on one side. The bike stabilized itself within fractions of a second. Potholes, torn tarmac or cattle bars are no problem if you keep your nerve. I have a lot of respect for sand, though.

[Spaceman Spiff]

'obey gravity, it's the law'...

You can't break the law. But it'll break you! :eek:

Hit low 50s coming off mountains in Va. Only on the straight stretches and not for very long -- Get nervous and sit up.

When I lived out west, there were a couple of mountains that could get me going 50+ mph, when I let them. In VA, I've gotten up to 45 mph coming off Skyline Dr. down into Luray; that's a fun descent!

[jpw]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tFpNsZXWgc

I find this truly unbelievable.

Closed and dry roads certainly add to confidence. A trusted pro mechanic also helps.

[redir]

I've hit 61mph on one of my local roads here in Virginia. It was quite a thrill. I don't think I ever will do it again. Too many deer in the woods and since that time houses with connecting driveways appeared.

[foo_fighter]

Forward is for sissies:

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/12/04/crazy-cyclist-stunt-backwards-mountain-road-video/

[Threshold]

You don't think about it - just do

[rustychisel]

You don't think about it - just do


Actually, I disagree with this a lot. That will very quickly put you into a situation you cannot respond to, nor control. Then it's lights out!!

As one who descends very quickly, I think the most important thing of all is to have confidence in your bike and your own abilities. Riders who lack that confidence will neither descend well nor safely.

As riders with families, not racing for a pay-cheque, etc we probably all need to chill a bit and ride within our limits.

[but when the road points downhill into a sweeper or two it's me who goes "F**k yeah!']

[fuzzalow]

You don't think about it - just do

The idea that the way to do it is just to do it is way off the mark. To me, that approach is identical to the misconception that skill in going fast in a car/motorcycle/bike is something that everybody has and that anyone can do. In reality, not a chance. What you don't know in combination with a lack of respect for speed will be the elixir that can kill.

Actually, I disagree with this a lot. That will very quickly put you into a situation you cannot respond to, nor control. Then it's lights out!!

Yes. A very fine line that with a pedal bike has almost no margin for pulling it back from when falling off. Physics, gravity, acceleration, inertia, deceleration, impact - all great fun and a thrill, just try your damnedest not to experience the last item on this list.

Going fast is never about being brave, it is all about being smart. Connecting the dots. Anyone that is interested in some of what should be known about going fast, a good place to start is reading "A Twist of the Wrist: The Motorcycle Roadracers Handbook" By Keith Code. What is covered in that book is applicable to anything moving on a roadway or a track.