Usefulness of Rapha Hardshell?

[jmeloy]

Polarizing I know... Was looking at Assos options but find myself a bit between sizes. Have a Mavic softshell that works pretty well. Thoughts about the Rapha Hardshell for cold days?


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[krismac23]

I got mine last year and rode it throughout the whole winter. I live in the DC metro area so maybe not as frigid compared to the midwest but it can get below freezing around here. It is an awesome jacket and it is what its called, a hardshell that protects from the wind and rain. Being a shell it doesn't have its own insulation so a baselayer or longsleeve jersey will work well with it. It does breathe better than your typical rain jacket but it when you hit a long climb you do start to feel a little overheated.

[Ahneida Ride]

www.foxwear.net

full custom

[Lovetoclimb]

Used one on the coldest worst days (35F or less with wind and snow) in WNC last winter and found it was almost the perfect piece with a thick LS wool baselayer and SS jersey underneath. I would usually unzip it half if not fully on long climbs.

[FlashUNC]

Really depends on where you live.

Biggest difference between the Rapha softshell and hardshell is waterproof vs. water resistant.

Both are supposed to be windproof.

Unless you're out riding in the cold wet stuff, you may want to look at the softshell too.

[Climb01742]

another difference between hard and soft shell is available colors. soft shell only comes in black this year.

i'm looking for a wind proof winter jacket too. an interesting option i found is:

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/castelli-espresso-cycling-jacket-mens?ti=UExQIEJyYW5kOjoxOjU6MTAwMDAwNTIyX2NjQ2F0MT AwMzE0

[jmeloy]

Like the Raphael soft shell but prefer something other than black. Like the Castelli soft shell but they hate us older guys with the less than svelte body types?


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[FlashUNC]

I'm giving the Assos Airjack a shot tomorrow. I'll report back with some initial impressions.

What temp range are you riding in?

[Climb01742]

I'm giving the Assos Airjack a shot tomorrow. I'll report back with some initial impressions.

What temp range are you riding in?

flash, i wish you the best of luck. your climate is more temperate than ours, so i hope it works well for you.

foolishly, i wore my airjack today and froze the snot out of myself. it was high 30s with 20-30mph winds here this morning. i expected the temps but the winds caught me off guard. i had good layers under my airjack but i find its lack of full windstopper a huge flaw. in the right climate and right conditions -- read mild-ish -- it works. but in the 3+ years i've had mine, it has disappointed more often than delivered. hence my search for a 100% wind proof jacket. assos apparently doesn't realize that wind blows from many directions.

[gavingould]

This morning in Chicago: 23F, 20mph wind from the north. Classic Softshell over Winter Jersey (several years old) over thermal base layer. Upper body was fine, if riding harder than zone 2, would have needed to open the pit zips.

[tv_vt]

foolishly, i wore my airjack today and froze the snot out of myself. it was high 30s with 20-30mph winds here this morning. i expected the temps but the winds caught me off guard. i had good layers under my airjack but i find its lack of full windstopper a huge flaw. in the right climate and right conditions -- read mild-ish -- it works. but in the 3+ years i've had mine, it has disappointed more often than delivered. hence my search for a 100% wind proof jacket. assos apparently doesn't realize that wind blows from many directions.

Wore my Fugujack today in VT under similar conditions and it worked like a charm. Passed a guy in the Airjack and wondered if he was warm enough, cuz like you say, the wind was blowin'. I was toasty in the Fugu. I probably could've worn an Airjack except for some 40mph downhills where the full windblock really was nice. Did you wear a windblock undershirt when you went out today? I would've worn a Craft windstopper long sleeve top and sleeveless layer under the 851. Didn't wear any windblock underlayers with the Fugu - don't need them.

I bought an Airjack on sale from Excel a week ago and have yet to wear it. As soon as it got here, winter arrived too. High of 17 forecast for tomorrow.

[bwee]

I'm not sure if this is helpful to you, but I own the Rapha Softshell & Rapha City Rain jacket. Between those two haven't yet found the need for the Hardshell. I imagine it doesn't breath as well as the soft-shell does though.

[Climb01742]

Wore my Fugujack today in VT under similar conditions and it worked like a charm. Passed a guy in the Airjack and wondered if he was warm enough, cuz like you say, the wind was blowin'. I was toasty in the Fugu. I probably could've worn an Airjack except for some 40mph downhills where the full windblock really was nice. Did you wear a windblock undershirt when you went out today? I would've worn a Craft windstopper long sleeve top and sleeveless layer under the 851. Didn't wear any windblock underlayers with the Fugu - don't need them.

I bought an Airjack on sale from Excel a week ago and have yet to wear it. As soon as it got here, winter arrived too. High of 17 forecast for tomorrow.

I have a Fugu too. It's the jacket I wear when my wife says, 'You're not serious are you? You're not going out in this?' It's a great jacket for below freezing rides. IMO, it's the best thing Assos makes. But I'm coming to believe the rest of Assos's jackets are sub par, at least for cold windy days. Thing is, the Fugu is so effective, if it's not cold enough, I overheat sometimes. And yes, I did have a craft wind front under layer on yesterday. But as I said, wind comes from all angles. I just picked the wrong jacket for the conditions...I picked an Assos jacket. :-)

[happycampyer]

I have a Fugu too. It's the jacket I wear when my wife says, 'You're not serious are you? You're not going out in this?' It's a great jacket for below freezing rides. IMO, it's the best thing Assos makes. But I'm coming to believe the rest of Assos's jackets are sub par, at least for cold windy days. Thing is, the Fugu is so effective, if it's not cold enough, I overheat sometimes. And yes, I did have a craft wind front under layer on yesterday. But as I said, wind comes from all angles. I just picked the wrong jacket for the conditions...I picked an Assos jacket. :-)That's too funny—that's exactly what my wife says! The fuguJack really is in a class by itself.

I have the Rapha hardshell as well as the fugu, the 851 and the bonKa. I think I've only worn the Rapha jacket a handful of times. The problem with it for me is that it does not ventilate well, so on climbs, or worse, if the temperature warms up over the course of a ride, I tend to overheat in it. Unzipping it helps, but I can't take it off because what I'm usually wearing underneath isn't warm enough. That's the genius of the Assos jackets for me—they are designed to be warm enough in a given temperature range (which is pretty wide) when worn with a single baselayer, and they have windblock fabric on the front but fabric that ventilates on the back. I agree that there are days when it's too windy for the 851 but not cold enough for the fugu. Before the bonKa was introduced, I found that my favorite jacket for those days was the Castelli Inferno jacket. Of course, everyone is different (christian would ride in a t-shirt on days I wear an 851...).

[Climb01742]

Happycamper summed it up well...we're all different. I am very sensitive to my upper body getting cold, especially when hit by cold wind. I'd rather be too warm than too cold. So full, 360 wind proof jackets are better for me. Assos's breathable panels, like on the 851, leave me cold on windy days. But others I'm sure find them ideal. Maybe I'll try a Rapha hard shell or a Castelli.

[corky]

The Assos sturmprinz is the equivelent of the rapha Hardshell but it does have venting in the back in the form of slots that allow access to jersey pockets and venting higher up in the back. Although essentially a wet weather jacket it will afford full wind protection.

[jmeloy]

I'm giving the Assos Airjack a shot tomorrow. I'll report back with some initial impressions.

What temp range are you riding in?

Flash, thinking something for 25-40 max.


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[jmeloy]

That's too funny—that's exactly what my wife says! The fuguJack really is in a class by itself.

I have the Rapha hardshell as well as the fugu, the 851 and the bonKa. I think I've only worn the Rapha jacket a handful of times. The problem with it for me is that it does not ventilate well, so on climbs, or worse, if the temperature warms up over the course of a ride, I tend to overheat in it. Unzipping it helps, but I can't take it off because what I'm usually wearing underneath isn't warm enough. That's the genius of the Assos jackets for me—they are designed to be warm enough in a given temperature range (which is pretty wide) when worn with a single baselayer, and they have windblock fabric on the front but fabric that ventilates on the back. I agree that there are days when it's too windy for the 851 but not cold enough for the fugu. Before the bonKa was introduced, I found that my favorite jacket for those days was the Castelli Inferno jacket. Of course, everyone is different (christian would ride in a t-shirt on days I wear an 851...).

Happy, I've read that the Rapha fit is a little looser than the assos, would you agree if you compare the hard shell and the fugu?


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[tv_vt]

I have an Ibex Breakaway jacket that also has windblocking panels, but they don't work as well as the airblock panels on Assos stuff. The Breakaway is good around 50 degrees F. Thinking the 851 will cover 40's and upper 30's. We'll see.

[christian]

(christian would ride in a t-shirt on days I wear an 851...).Haha, I rode (mtb) today in a Craft windblock baselayer, Wabi Woolens winter jersey and Assos LL tights. I had a vest on for the first 10 minutes but had to stop and strip it off, as I was overheating. Nice day for it!

[rwsaunders]

I have an Ibex Breakaway jacket that also has windblocking panels, but they don't work as well as the airblock panels on Assos stuff. The Breakaway is good around 50 degrees F. Thinking the 851 will cover 40's and upper 30's. We'll see.

Yesterday's ride was between 31-35 degrees...the 851 was called up. In comparison, today's ride was between 21-23 degrees...the Fugu got the nod. Fortunately, the 851 sees more action or I would ride the Mtb more frequently. I would feel comfortable recommending the 851 for use ranging from the low 30's to the upper 40's.

[Kirk007]

I've been going through this analysis too; I don't see the real difference between the hardshell and the rainjacket particulalry the new one which eliminates the side panels, other than an extra $100.

[happycampyer]

Happy, I've read that the Rapha fit is a little looser than the assos, would you agree if you compare the hard shell and the fugu?If you just put the Rapha hard shell on over a thin shirt or baselayer, it's loose, but it really needs an insulating layer underneath, such as a roubaix jersey or one of Rapha's long sleeve jerseys. To get a similar degree of warmth as the fuguJack, I need three layers (baselayer, insulating layer, hard shell, vs. two for the fuguJack—baselayer and jacket), and at that point it's more restrictive. The so-called aepd design of Assos jackets really makes a difference—the sleeves are cut to extend forward, and there's more fabric across the back for when you are in the riding position. Honestly, I haven't really figured out the right conditions for the hard shell jacket.

To put christian's post in perspective, this morning it was 24º with a 25mph wind, with gusts strong enough to take down trees.

[jmeloy]

If you just put the Rapha hard shell on over a thin shirt or baselayer, it's loose, but it really needs an insulating layer underneath, such as a roubaix jersey or one of Rapha's long sleeve jerseys. To get a similar degree of warmth as the fuguJack, I need three layers (baselayer, insulating layer, hard shell, vs. two for the fuguJack—baselayer and jacket), and at that point it's more restrictive. The so-called aepd design of Assos jackets really makes a difference—the sleeves are cut to extend forward, and there's more fabric across the back for when you are in the riding position. Honestly, I haven't really figured out the right conditions for the hard shell jacket.

To put christian's post in perspective, this morning it was 24º with a 25mph wind, with gusts strong enough to take down trees.

I'm hung up on sizing on the assos as I'm at the top end of the chest dimension but what they quote for waist measurement is a couple of inches smaller than mine. It's bad to be old! Otherwise I'd order one of these now!


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[Climb01742]

Happycamper, what's your favorite middle, insulating layer? What have you found keeps you warmest without too much bulk between the base layer and jacket? Thanks.

[#campyuserftw]

Happycamper, what's your favorite middle, insulating layer? What have you found keeps you warmest without too much bulk between the base layer and jacket? Thanks.

This thing rocks:

http://www.smartwool.com/mens/baselayer/mens-phd-nts-light-195-wind-zip-t-7.html

I wear one of these under the above:

http://www.smartwool.com/mens/baselayer/mens-nts-mid-250-pattern-crew-10.html

http://www.smartwool.com/mens/baselayer/mens-nts-micro-150-crew-5.html

Very little bulk. Or you could snag a long sleeve jersey. The Rapha hardshell looks and sounds great.

[happycampyer]

Happycamper, what's your favorite middle, insulating layer? What have you found keeps you warmest without too much bulk between the base layer and jacket? Thanks.
I haven't gotten very creative with different combinations. I figure that Rapha designed it to work with their other garments, so I've stuck with that for the most part. The only variation so far has been to try different baselayers—various Craft baselayers and the short sleeve Rapha wool baselayer. For the middle layer I've always used a long sleeve Rapha jersey. I think the problem with the jacket for me isn't what's underneath, it's the jacket itself—it's not breathable, but it's also not meant to be removed mid ride. I think if I went for a relatively flat ride on the singlespeed on a cold, windy day it would be fine. The pockets are better than the fuguJack,* I'll give it that.

*Note that there are two different versions of the fuguJack, one with a center pocket and one without.

[messdaddy]

I have the Rapha Hardshell, and I agree it doesn't breathe well. I use it for commuting in Eastern Washington which is usually about an hour long. For my longer rides I would use my Fugu if it was really cold, below zero C, or my older Rapha Softshell with pit zips for warmer winter weather.

[kgbianchi]

I have been using my Rapha Hardshell for about two months now. Initially I found this jacket not to breathe very well, but after a couple washings and fine tuning the insulating layers I have found this to be the jacket I was looking for.

I think the key to moisture management is using the right base layer. A craft ribbed base layer or a merino seems to work best with a polypro smooth texture base layer not working too well.

Now that I have tuned the base layers, this jacket can be used between 0-30 degrees effectively. If it is a cold rain, this jacket will also be great!

[Gummee]

Happycamper summed it up well...we're all different. I am very sensitive to my upper body getting cold, especially when hit by cold wind. I'd rather be too warm than too cold. So full, 360 wind proof jackets are better for me. Assos's breathable panels, like on the 851, leave me cold on windy days. But others I'm sure find them ideal. Maybe I'll try a Rapha hard shell or a Castelli.

If you're not a brand snob, the PBS softshell (black with LOTS of reflective) has been too warm for me to wear this winter. I can't dress lightly enough underneath it! Wore it last nite on a mtn bike ride and came back sweaty.

'Course, I get hot in my Gore Phantom, so IDK what I was thinking buying a 'all softshell' jacket. (as opposed to having a fabric back)

M