Right then, American Flyers

[rustychisel]

Okay, so I promised FTT I wouldn't start a thread on this, since he kindly loaned me the DVD last night, but tell me what's so damn bad about 'American Flyers'?

I thought it was tolerable.

... apart from Kevin Costner (apparently), Kevin Costner's moustache, and the brutish Russian whose endeavours suggest constipation rather than cycling. I assume it's pretty much modelled on the Red Zinger, but I ask 'how bad can a movie be when it has a cameo by an [admittedly embarrassed looking] Eddy Merckx' and a central character is nicknamed 'the cannibal'.

[Steve in SLO]

I have always thought it was fairly entertaining and tolerably acted, but come on: bleeding from the ear does not equal impending death.

[rustychisel]

I would view the bleeding as a symptom, but I don't play a doctor in real life.

[fiamme red]

I saw it long ago. I remember that Rae Dawn Chong was pretty good in her role, and the wheel change she did was simply amazing.

[67-59]

Haven't seen it in many years...but I'm always reluctant to go back and watch movies that I loved decades ago.

A couple years ago, I HAD to see the Blues Brothers again. I basically forced my kids to watch, telling them it was awesome. At the end, they couldn't for the life of them understand what all the fuss was about...and I couldn't either.

There are a few exceptions that stand the test of time for me - Animal House ("do you mind if we dance wif' yo dates?") and Airplane! ("Roger, Roger." "Huh?") come to mind. But most of the time, I have been disappointed. Not sure if I want to go back with American Flyers....

[ptourkin]

I saw it long ago. I remember that Rae Dawn Chong was pretty good in her role, and the wheel change she did was simply amazing.

Yes! The most impressive part of the film.

[Steve in SLO]

Haven't seen it in many years...but I'm always reluctant to go back and watch movies that I loved decades ago.

Not sure if I want to go back with American Flyers....

Just have a few beers and low expectations and it'll be fine.

[Seramount]

...but tell me what's so damn bad about 'American Flyers'?

I thought it was tolerable.

if by 'tolerable,' you mean poorly scripted, poorly cast, and poorly acted....yeah, it was tolerable.

[Pete Mckeon]

Just have a few beers and low expectations and it'll be fine.


I have a DVD here of it:)

[giverdada]

i love(d) American Flyers.

as cyclists, we really don't have much to choose from in terms of cinematographic celebration of our beloved sport. i watched breaking away after someone on the forum mentioned it as, along with the bicycle thief, the greatest cycling movie ever. his/her mention came with the caveat that these films were the greatest because they were not about cycling. awesome.

i love american flyers because, like old 80s arnold movies where he gets barfed on by camels and carries a massive sword while wearing a fur loincloth, it's full of moments i remember, can quote while riding, and is thematically linked to other things that may or may not have anything to do with the literal translation/plot. i have brothers. we used to ride together. 'the big deal is: we're brothers.' - favorite american flyers quote.

i think it was well shot. the acting was passable and still exciting. it had that amazing 80s motivational soundtrack. come on - the karate kid/top gun but on bikes!

of course, i'm writing my own 'the next cycling movie' in my head every ride and every day, and a lot of it is about what it's not about. when i have some time and a good bottle of red to go to it, i'm checking out the doc about the team from rwanda. now available on itunes. go get it!

n.

[Repack Rider]

I knew Rae Dawn when she was a teenager and before she was a star. The most gorgeous individual...

The bicycling consultant and bike camera rider/operator told the director that you would not see a full beard on a pro cyclist like the Russian bad guy in the film. That was then, this is now and now you might, but then it was unheard of. The director insisted on it because it was "Russian" and "bad guy."

Not representing the Red Zinger, but its offspring, the Coors Classic, which I worked on as a support crew member in 1982. My story, "Inside the Coors Classic," ran in Bicycling magazine.

[ctcyclistbob]

I liked American Flyers, and Breaking Away. Like someone said there aren't too many cycling films to choose from.

But then again, I liked Stripes, Animal House, and Caddyshack too.

.

[#campyuserftw]

I cannot write a review with depth, which was easy to do with 'Breaking Away'. However, I own 'American Flyers' and enjoy watching it once a year. Poor acting overall. The mother was reading off a script. The younger brother, David, had no believability as an actor, and Jennifer Grey as an actress was juvenile...she wasn't close to being put in a corner, yet. I found the best actor to be Kevin Costner, and while he's not so great in the movie, he tried his best.

I felt the foundation, it's premise, the story could and should have been successful. Story, script, acting. You need at least two of them to make a good movie. Flyers doesn't have anything but a good story, and as cyclists, we're bound to connect with it on some level.

Cold War Red Russia, expansion of fast food, birth of modern athletic training with computer data, and a mixed-race relationship of black/white, were all elements of the American 80's, and interlaced within the main story. Marcus and Dave weren't just flyers, they were 'American Flyers', cowboys, during a time, 1985, when Americans loved the notion of defeating the Ruskies, who just boycotted our 84' Los Angeles Olympics. Flyers' interest and moderate success spurred the 1986 classic with Kevin Bacon, 'Quicksilver' and 'Top Gun' was 'American Flyers' as Specialized was replaced by F-14's.

I think 'American Flyers' is an 80's movie that could, and should be re-booted. Hold the EPO, pass the popcorn. The silver screen could use a feel-good cycling story. I'll grow a mustache, count me in. "Up Dave, up" in a flat, sincere, mono-tone voice, are the simple words from a serious, caring trainer and a phrase we all hear at some point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFfQw_AJlUo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2rrzWYyXZo

:beer:

[Uncle Jam's Army]

I went to college with "Randolph" (Doi Johnson in real life). Though quite chunky, he was a pretty good athlete; started on the college football team (albeit Div. 3) and could ball pretty good in intramural basketball. Totally unlike his "Randolph" character. For whatever reason, he didn't like to acknowledge he was ever in the movie, or an actor generally.

As to the movie itself, yeah it was an over the top script, but think about the talent in the movie: Robert Townsend, Kevin Costner, John Amos, Rae Dawn Chong, David Grant. As the years have gone by, the story of familial discord and reconciliation, to me, has struck a stronger cord than the depiction of a fictional Hell of the West race. Viewed through that prism, I think the movie has value, even today.

[Louis]

RustyC,

First Breaking Away, now this; can Citizen Kane and The Godfather be far behind?

BTW, if you dis Blade Runner I will loose absolutely all respect for your film critiquing abilities...

[Hawker]

I sought this movie out when it was released. I was on business in LA and it was only showing on one theater in a city that size...which I thought was weird.

Knowing it was written by Steve Tesich who wrote Breaking Away, I was really excited. Half way through I couldn't believe what I was seeing...truly embarrassing and it hasn't gotten any better with age.

[Llewellyn]

The bicycling consultant and bike camera rider/operator told the director that you would not see a full beard on a pro cyclist like the Russian bad guy in the film.

Check Google images for Sean Eadie

[choke]

It's certainly not the best movie ever made but I still enjoy watching it....and that's all that really matters. I even had a stem cap engraved with Res Firma Mitescere Nescit.

[Elefantino]

Not the best John Badham film, either ("War Games" or "Saturday Night Fever" were more iconic).

"Becky" (Alexandra Paul) has done Ironmans. (Ironmen?)

[r_mutt]

RustyC,

First Breaking Away, now this; can Citizen Kane and The Godfather be far behind?

BTW, if you dis Blade Runner I will loose absolutely all respect for your film critiquing abilities...

a negative review of "Breaking Away" and a positive one for "American Flyers" isn't proof enough?

[Gummee]

I've lived right off the course. Had seen the movie many years prior to moving to the Denver area and HAD to ride 'The Wall.' Yes, its as steep as you think. That thing sucks the life out of you.

Overall, it was an 'OK' movie. Like was pointed out above: there's not too many cycling movies out there.

M

[RFC]

I have always thought it was fairly entertaining and tolerably acted, but come on: bleeding from the ear does not equal impending death.

Unless Rodney McDowell just pushed a pencil into it.

[rain dogs]

Too juvenile and predictable for a start. Too much typical "exceptionalism". Too many "beat the clock scenes". Little adversity for the characters.

"Davey" beats his brother by what 3 seconds on the treadmill for the record?
Then he finishes 48 of 48 to advance all the while Marcus wins the first stage :rolleyes:
The Davey takes 4 of 4 sprints on stage 2 to close to 11 seconds with little competition and completely as planned. :p
Then Davey wins the entire race as a newb, over the defending champ and the "commie" by thousands of a second :eek:

seriously :help:

The concept actually isn't terrible and the tension between the brothers could have been palpable provided the acting was better. As someone said before... it's an American movie about bike racing... It's quite awful.

[gdw]

"It's quite awful."

+1 It's so lame that it's fun to watch. The plot, dialogue, and acting are pathetic but the scenery is interesting especially if you live in Colorado. We have a virgin copy still in the plastic that we're saving for retirement. I'm betting we can get Costner to pony up some big bucks for it if we threaten to release it to the masses in 20 years.

[mcteague]

I saw it long ago. I remember that Rae Dawn Chong was pretty good in her role, and the wheel change she did was simply amazing.

I remember reading that, on an earlier take, she removed the wheel and tossed it into the road, right in front of the rest of the pack. Wonder if that really happened.

Tim

[oldpotatoe]

Okay, so I promised FTT I wouldn't start a thread on this, since he kindly loaned me the DVD last night, but tell me what's so damn bad about 'American Flyers'?

I thought it was tolerable.

... apart from Kevin Costner (apparently), Kevin Costner's moustache, and the brutish Russian whose endeavours suggest constipation rather than cycling. I assume it's pretty much modelled on the Red Zinger, but I ask 'how bad can a movie be when it has a cameo by an [admittedly embarrassed looking] Eddy Merckx' and a central character is nicknamed 'the cannibal'.

It's a movie, it has cycling in it, I've watched a couple of times, it's not that bad.

[oldpotatoe]

RustyC,

First Breaking Away, now this; can Citizen Kane and The Godfather be far behind?

BTW, if you dis Blade Runner I will loose absolutely all respect for your film critiquing abilities...

This..easily the very best Sci-Fi movie ever made..and I like the narrated one better than the non narrated one.

[David Tollefson]

Sure, there are many holes. Like where are the officials when The Cannibal is trying to run Dave off the road?

But heck, we still go out for sprint practice with Eddie. That son-of-a-bitch.

[fiamme red]

But heck, we still go out for sprint practice with Eddie. That son-of-a-bitch.:D

What were the bikes in the film? I thought they were stock Specialized Allez, until I saw the 1985 Serotta catalog:

http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/catalogs/serotta-85/ser9.jpg

"...we now have readily available the new SEROTTA TITAN. These are the same bicycles that were used in the new Warner Brothers movie 'American Flyer.' "

[oldpotatoe]

Too juvenile and predictable for a start. Too much typical "exceptionalism". Too many "beat the clock scenes". Little adversity for the characters.

"Davey" beats his brother by what 3 seconds on the treadmill for the record?
Then he finishes 48 of 48 to advance all the while Marcus wins the first stage :rolleyes:
The Davey takes 4 of 4 sprints on stage 2 to close to 11 seconds with little competition and completely as planned. :p
Then Davey wins the entire race as a newb, over the defending champ and the "commie" by thousands of a second :eek:

seriously :help:

The concept actually isn't terrible and the tension between the brothers could have been palpable provided the acting was better. As someone said before... it's an American movie about bike racing... It's quite awful.

BUT it's not a movie about cycling and certainly not made for cyclists.

I find TopGun an amazingly poor film. There are NO many things that are utter balderdash and BS in that movie, I want to take that little ···· and smack him everytime I see this POS(seen it twice, scenes 3-4 times)..along with the 'tech advisor', who I knew...why he let some of this crap stay is beyond me..probably cuz he probably said things like, "these guys don't wear their flight jackets with a Tshirt and raybans when they ride around on their motorcycle, type crap. Or lose an A/C cuz you screwed the pooch..and the next thing ya know you are shooten down commies...and they probably told him to shut up...

But I wouldn't spend the $ to see American Flyers but I would for free, like on Netflix...

[mosca]

If you dig into the credits on IMDB, it lists Steven Van Zandt as one of the cyclists. Now I want to see it again just to try and spot him. Wonder what the story is there.

[Fixed]

I remember reading about American flyers in bicycling mag a year before it came out also about the new specialized bikes they would be using ,good time back then as a cyclist it all seemed so fresh clean and new .
Just like now ;)
Cheers :)

[ean10775]

I enjoyed it and own a copy on DVD. How many cycling related feature films are there? Beggars can't be choosers.

[josephr]

I've lived right off the course. Had seen the movie many years prior to moving to the Denver area and HAD to ride 'The Wall.' Yes, its as steep as you think. That thing sucks the life out of you.


guess you're not Strava KOM....do you have a link to the profile?
Joe

[witcombusa]

A bit of American Flyers trivia for you. Just I couple of surprising choices regarding bikes used for a couple of scenes.

First, what bike was wild Bill Woodul on at the "Institute" on the rollers all instrumented up and sweating profusely?

And secondly, what was the Russian team leader "Belov" riding in the "Hell of the West"

[oldpotatoe]

A bit of American Flyers trivia for you. Just I couple of surprising choices regarding bikes used for a couple of scenes.

First, what bike was wild Bill Woodul on at the "Institute" on the rollers all instrumented up and sweating profusely?

And secondly, what was the Russian team leader "Belov" riding in the "Hell of the West"

Don't know but the stunt/cyclist double for the russian is a local guy..sold him a couple of frames.

[witcombusa]

Well, if anyone is interested, a couple of clues...



The bike Woody is riding on the rollers is made by one of the films sponsors and also his employer at the time. It's the choice of model he is on that is interesting....


Belov's bike is obscure, even by Italian builders standards. I've been a CRer for many years and have never seen one (or at least noticed).


Answers to follow....no cheating!!!

[witcombusa]

Here's what they put Woody on for the "rollers" shot :confused:
Yes I know they were a sponsor and all but if they didn't want to use another Allez SE couldn't they at least given Bill a Sequoia? Or maybe they thought that having to spin up that 40 spoke rear wheel would get him really sweating for the shot!

Specialized Expedition


And this is what Belov rode, shown here with it's builder, Mauro Sannino

[Seramount]

saw AF when it was first released and have caught portions of it since.

I don't hate the movie, but, bicycles or not, it's really a pretty weak attempt at film making. there's no way I could ever watch it in its entirety ever again...

directors that insist on grossly sacrificing accuracy for lame drama annoy the crap out of me. if a story is worth telling, you can make it interesting without making it hokey.

[Repack Rider]

The problem with AF is the same problem with "Breaking Away." The plot requires a bad guy, in this case the bearded Russian. Bike racing is competition, it's not good v. evil. The losers are cheating just as much as the winners.

At that time no international Russian cyclist would have worn a beard, but the director insisted on it despite the argument from the real cyclists advising on technical aspects that it was not realistic.

I rode with Eddie B. and the Russian coach in one of the follow cars during the 1982 Coors Classic. The Russians were kicking ass, and I had Eddie translate a joke to the Russian. "Why are there four Russians in the top five?" Answer, because it's all they brought.

Dude didn't laugh.

Knew Rae Dawn before she was, well, Rae Dawn. Tommy Chong's daughter, big fan of the band I roadied for, she stayed with us at Caribou Ranch in 1978 during a two week recording session.

[Louis]

Wow - that's at least two or three lifetimes of high-living crammed into one!

I rode with Eddie B. and the Russian coach in one of the follow cars during the 1982 Coors Classic. The Russians were kicking ass, and I had Eddie translate a joke to the Russian. "Why are there four Russians in the top five?" Answer, because it's all they brought.

Dude didn't laugh.

Knew Rae Dawn before she was, well, Rae Dawn. Tommy Chong's daughter, big fan of the band I roadied for, she stayed with us at Caribou Ranch in 1978 during a two week recording session.

[Mr.Pave]

The best line in the movie:
"Look into the crystal light and release meat".

[oldpotatoe]

The problem with AF is the same problem with "Breaking Away." The plot requires a bad guy, in this case the bearded Russian. Bike racing is competition, it's not good v. evil. The losers are cheating just as much as the winners.

At that time no international Russian cyclist would have worn a beard, but the director insisted on it despite the argument from the real cyclists advising on technical aspects that it was not realistic.

I rode with Eddie B. and the Russian coach in one of the follow cars during the 1982 Coors Classic. The Russians were kicking ass, and I had Eddie translate a joke to the Russian. "Why are there four Russians in the top five?" Answer, because it's all they brought.

Dude didn't laugh.

Knew Rae Dawn before she was, well, Rae Dawn. Tommy Chong's daughter, big fan of the band I roadied for, she stayed with us at Caribou Ranch in 1978 during a two week recording session.

Sold a bike to Tommy Chong's daughter in law(obviously met his son)..have a signed picture of him in the shop. She is a 'rocket scientist', no kidding, and just had a beautiful little baby boy. So, maybe all the smoke dope gig and progeny is 'overblown'??

[Repack Rider]

Wow - that's at least two or three lifetimes of high-living crammed into one!

I can't disagree, and there's a lot more where that came from, because I had the best bicycle adventure (and the best rock 'n' roll adventure) of the 20th Century. I wrote a book about it (http://www.velopress.com/books/fat-tire-flyer/).