Noisy 9070 issues

[10-4]

Here's my problem:

While in the bike ring and any of my 5 or so largest cogs, I get what sounds like really bad chain rub on the front derailleur. Once I make it down the cassette, it goes from making the noise to then shifting one more cog and it's totally silent.

The noise only happens when standing putting some effort in.

I've replicated it on the trainer to try to watch it more closely and not crash out on the road, the chain doesn't appear to be hitting the front derailleur at all.

Setup is 9070 FD, 9070 RD, Dura Ace 9000 chain, 6800 Ultegra cassette, and Rotor 3D Quarq crank with Cannondale Hollowgram rings.

My cross bike also has a 9000 (mechanical) setup and has the same issues. That's 9000 RD, 9000 FD, 6800 Ultegra cassette, 9000 chain, Rotor 3D Quarq cranks with FSA 46/36 rings.

Both bikes shift perfectly and are completely silent when in the work stand and both bikes are quiet when riding cross-chained and seated when not putting out much power.

I can't see any rubbing on the FD on either bike, even when standing and pedaling on the trainer.

I'm coming up with a few possibilities:

1. Bad chainline? Do the Rotor cranks with a Quarq have such a bad chainline that the chain isn't coming onto the teeth correctly?
2. Chainrings aren't 11-sp compatible? Are they thicker than an 11sp specfic chainring would be?

Help me with this, it's driving me crazy!

[rustychisel]

strange that you can't replicate or see what's going on when on a workstand, but I think you're looking in the right place.

Chainline.

The common factor is different cranksets. Are they both wider Q measurements, thus the big chainring is too far out, pulling the chain across the teeth... I'm assuming also the chain isn't just worn and making that 'scretching' sound a very worn chain does.

[10-4]

Chains are brand new, literally less than 50 miles on the CX chain, maybe 500 on the road bike.

It takes a fair bit of torque to reproduce the sound, 300 watts or more, and low-ish cadence. I notice it every time I take off from a stop light, for instance. But the sound is identical for the largest 5 cogs, then I shift to the 6th cog and it's totally silent.

[10-4]

I wonder if this is my issue....

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=118879&hilit=9000+noise

[vqdriver]

Didn't read the whole thread but op is referring to a cracked DA cassette spider. You've got ultegra



The noise only happens when standing putting some effort in.



Could it be frame flex?

[cfox]

Didn't read the whole thread but op is referring to a cracked DA cassette spider. You've got ultegra




Could it be frame flex?

Ultegra has the same carbon spider as DA.

Did you have run any other group on the frame? Have you ever had FD rub from frame flex? My guess is the cranks don't like the chainline, like you thought.

[10-4]

Didn't read the whole thread but op is referring to a cracked DA cassette spider. You've got ultegra




Could it be frame flex?

It's on a Gaulzetti Corsa, I don't think it's frame flex!

And yes, Ultegra cassette uses a carbon spider as well, unfortunately.

[vqdriver]

Agree its unlikely on a 'zetti
Be that as it may, the fact that you're noticing this only under strain tells me something's not staying put.

[oldpotatoe]

Here's my problem:

While in the bike ring and any of my 5 or so largest cogs, I get what sounds like really bad chain rub on the front derailleur. Once I make it down the cassette, it goes from making the noise to then shifting one more cog and it's totally silent.

The noise only happens when standing putting some effort in.

I've replicated it on the trainer to try to watch it more closely and not crash out on the road, the chain doesn't appear to be hitting the front derailleur at all.

Setup is 9070 FD, 9070 RD, Dura Ace 9000 chain, 6800 Ultegra cassette, and Rotor 3D Quarq crank with Cannondale Hollowgram rings.

My cross bike also has a 9000 (mechanical) setup and has the same issues. That's 9000 RD, 9000 FD, 6800 Ultegra cassette, 9000 chain, Rotor 3D Quarq cranks with FSA 46/36 rings.

Both bikes shift perfectly and are completely silent when in the work stand and both bikes are quiet when riding cross-chained and seated when not putting out much power.

I can't see any rubbing on the FD on either bike, even when standing and pedaling on the trainer.

I'm coming up with a few possibilities:

1. Bad chainline? Do the Rotor cranks with a Quarq have such a bad chainline that the chain isn't coming onto the teeth correctly?
2. Chainrings aren't 11-sp compatible? Are they thicker than an 11sp specfic chainring would be?

Help me with this, it's driving me crazy!

I vote for 11s rings needed. They aren't thinner but they are closer together. Proper spacing for shimano and sram 11s is critical, particularly with electronic..seen it before with EPS and non 11s spaced rings.

[10-4]

I vote for 11s rings needed. They aren't thinner but they are closer together. Proper spacing for shimano and sram 11s is critical, particularly with electronic..seen it before with EPS and non 11s spaced rings.

But the rings shift fantastic. It doesn't seem, to me at least, the spacing from one ring to the other would be the culprit.

[oldpotatoe]

But the rings shift fantastic. It doesn't seem, to me at least, the spacing from one ring to the other would be the culprit.

No doubt but under some sort of load, the 'rubbing' is heard. All frames flex some and the distances between chain and FD is less that with 11s spaced chainrings. Either that or the crank/frame is flexing a whole bunch when under load.

"Under load' is the important part methinks, something is moving..but it 'could' be the carrier of the cogset as well, as has been mentioned. carbon cog carrier, that's 'brilliant'. Maybe try a sram 11s cogset...Force level.

[10-4]

No doubt but under some sort of load, the 'rubbing' is heard. All frames flex some and the distances between chain and FD is less that with 11s spaced chainrings. Either that or the crank/frame is flexing a whole bunch when under load.

"Under load' is the important part methinks, something is moving..but it 'could' be the carrier of the cogset as well, as has been mentioned. carbon cog carrier, that's 'brilliant'. Maybe try a sram 11s cogset...Force level.

I thought just what you are saying about flex, but I put the bike into the trainer and was cranking out some solid sprints, about 2x the wattage that it takes to make the noise, and I can't see the chain hitting the FD at all. That was my first guess, but with some trials I THINK I can count that out. Plus, it's much louder and mush more crunchy than the standard rubbing-on-the-FD sound.

I have an 11-sp Red cassette here I'll try today, unfortunately don't have a Force 11-sp unit.

[oldpotatoe]

I thought just what you are saying about flex, but I put the bike into the trainer and was cranking out some solid sprints, about 2x the wattage that it takes to make the noise, and I can't see the chain hitting the FD at all. That was my first guess, but with some trials I THINK I can count that out. Plus, it's much louder and mush more crunchy than the standard rubbing-on-the-FD sound.

I have an 11-sp Red cassette here I'll try today, unfortunately don't have a Force 11-sp unit.

Which wheels? The only thing that has the same 'frequency' as the crank..hub..or pedal? Noises can be vexing.

[10-4]

Which wheels? The only thing that has the same 'frequency' as the crank..hub..or pedal? Noises can be vexing.

Handbuilts. R45 to Archetype on road bike. R45 disc to Major Tom on CX bike. So hubs are similar also.

Pedals are Keo Blade on road, Egg Beater on CX.

I'm afraid it's the cassette after reading about the carriers, going to swap that today and see what happens. Will report back.

[10-4]

Here we go: tossed an 11-sp Red cassette on, totally silent. Greased the splines and cleaned the cassette as was suggested a few times in the WW forum, then installed the Shimano cassette. Back to the same noises.

Counted the cogs a little more closely, it's the 5 largest cogs that all make the same sound, and all 5 are on composite spiders. When you make it to the standard all-metal cogs of the Shimano cassette it's totally silent.

[oldpotatoe]

Here we go: tossed an 11-sp Red cassette on, totally silent. Greased the splines and cleaned the cassette as was suggested a few times in the WW forum, then installed the Shimano cassette. Back to the same noises.

Counted the cogs a little more closely, it's the 5 largest cogs that all make the same sound, and all 5 are on composite spiders. When you make it to the standard all-metal cogs of the Shimano cassette it's totally silent.

Taaa-daaaa.

Glad you found it....warranty the shimano cogset.

[10-4]

Taaa-daaaa.

Glad you found it....warranty the shimano cogset.

Going to give that a shot today. I wonder how common this is? Both of my cassettes are doing the same thing.

Glad I bought this stuff from my LBS.....

[vqdriver]

sram cassette to quiet a shimano drivetrain? the world has changed.
glad you found it. tracking down noise drives me nuts.

[oldpotatoe]

Going to give that a shot today. I wonder how common this is? Both of my cassettes are doing the same thing.

Glad I bought this stuff from my LBS.....

Being king of aluminum forging, and forgoing the 'carbon everything' trend, it seems interesting that shimano chose to make the carrier carbon. Can't see it, it can't be that much lighter than aluminum.

[vqdriver]

surprising this didn't come up during their testing. i thought they had pro teams road testing this stuff like crazy.

[Joachim]

So if both DA and Ultegra make noise and SRAM does not come in 12-25, I'm back to Chorus 11 cassettes with DA9000 shifting?

[10-4]

sram cassette to quiet a shimano drivetrain? the world has changed.
glad you found it. tracking down noise drives me nuts.

Exactly what I thought. Man, I'd really prefer not have SRAM on my bike, but all of my King hubs are Shimano 11 already....

[gavingould]

i could tolerate the noise if you give it to me for my cross bike, 10-4...

[10-4]

i could tolerate the noise if you give it to me for my cross bike, 10-4...

Doubt it Gavin, you should hear it.....

[gavingould]

i'll happily run a sram cassette though.