Conti

[pdxmech13]

should I not be using this tyre cement.
only for al-u-min-i-um rims.
questions comments.

[Too Tall]

I'm dsylexic...can you repeat the question? :rolleyes:
Conti glue is fantastic for alum. rims, always works if you want a tire that is glued on really well for racing...this is good stuff however Vittoria Mastic one is consistently tested better for all surfaces...in lab testing yada yada.

I've quit using conti. entirely so that I have less to think about and am using Panaracer which in my benchtop Gorilla testing lab(tm) is proving to be really really good for carbon AND alum. rims winter and summer. The tires I've glued to carbon rims using Panaracer do not snap off when I test them...they pull off just like an alum rim leaving strings of goo...that's a good thing :) If someone gives me Vittoria to glue their tires with I use it..otherwise at home for my wheels it is Panaracer.

Yeah I agree, if this is what you are worried about, the Conti. does tend to "snap" off the rim sometimes with carbon.

Another "comer" is the Japanese brand Soyo. I am fooling around with that for commuting wheels (aluminum) ...it remains nice and sticky so is nice for on the road (knock on wood) tire changes. I've used the SOYO in warm weather and it's great...no opinion yet on SOYO for cold weather. I recall American Cyclery sells SOYO. My initial feeling is that this is not what I'd want for racing..that said I think there are diff. versions of SOYO for track which might be just the ticket.

[ols]

There is a guy who did a bunch of research on tubular gluing (with the Vittoria glue coming out on top) at U of Kansas. He has a bunch of articles with his tests and recommended gluing procedures (very useful for me as a tubular newbie) at the link below (Note that you need to click on "bicycle research" in the frame on the left of the new window which opens up):

http://www.engr.ku.edu/~kuktl/index.html

[ada@prorider.or]

There is a guy who did a bunch of research on tubular gluing (with the Vittoria glue coming out on top) at U of Kansas. He has a bunch of articles with his tests and recommended gluing procedures (very useful for me as a tubular newbie) at the link below (Note that you need to click on "bicycle research" in the frame on the left of the new window which opens up):

http://www.engr.ku.edu/~kuktl/index.html

well regarding this test
first of all he did not use a rim according the norm
erto
in wich the tyre's are made
secondly i think he does not know how to prepare a rim for glueing a tubular

cees

[jerk]

well regarding this test
first of all he did not use a rim according the norm
erto
in wich the tyre's are make
secondly i think he does not know how to prepare a rim for glueing a tubular

cees

what cees said.

[Too Tall]

Puhlease :rolleyes:
So who has done a better test?

[jerk]

Puhlease :rolleyes:
So who has done a better test?


cees has.

[William]

http://salseda.com/images/gallery/bjm.jpg




William ;)

[PeterW]

Cees,

What is the best way to prepare a rim for a tubular?

What glue on an aluminium rim?

What is wrong with the study, whcih essentially says let the first coat dry.

[Bill Bove]

I just glued a pair of Vittoria CX's on a Real Designs L'Eclisse carbon wheel using 3M Fast Tack. I've always used Fast Tack except when gluing Conti tubulars, the FastTack seems to deteroriate the glue holding the Conti base tape. Other than that, never a problem.

[Too Tall]

Let r' rip Cees. Dish the facts man, I'm all ears. Knowledge is a good thing.

Bill B, careful. Old(er) tubes of Fastak are fine to use on Vittoria and some others however the new tubes apre' new EPA / Gov't restrictions on VOCs are an unknown. I'm not saying don't use the new formulation just be aware and re-test on tires previously assumed to be compatible.

[ergott]

well regarding this test
first of all he did not use a rim according the norm
erto
in wich the tyre's are made
secondly i think he does not know how to prepare a rim for glueing a tubular

cees


Man, you are way to cryptic! Shed the light! What glues do you like and how do you prepare a tire/rim for first time mounting? Do you prepare a carbon rim any different than an aluminium rim?

[Bill Bove]

Let r' rip Cees. Dish the facts man, I'm all ears. Knowledge is a good thing.

Bill B, careful. Old(er) tubes of Fastak are fine to use on Vittoria and some others however the new tubes apre' new EPA / Gov't restrictions on VOCs are an unknown. I'm not saying don't use the new formulation just be aware and re-test on tires previously assumed to be compatible.
Thanks for the heads up skyscraperman, I did not know thta 3M had changed the formula. I will keep an eye on these.

[Bill Bove]

TooTall, got a notification of a PM from you but it didn't come through, try again. Thanks.

[flydhest]

cees has.

and the results are published where?

[ada@prorider.or]

Cees,

What is the best way to prepare a rim for a tubular?

What glue on an aluminium rim?

What is wrong with the study, whcih essentially says let the first coat dry.


well first of all the rim must be according to the erto norm!!!!
google for that norm so you have it
if you see this rim it does not have that norm

secondly remove all release agents off a carbon rimm
it depands wich release agent is used to remove it with the appropte agent to remove
then sandpaper slitly the surface
(this one of the reasons also why we use kevlar as top surface)
then clean the whole thing with aceton
then apply layer for layer on the rim
very thin layers like you are painting the thinner the layer the better it is
wait a day of the first layer
then apply layers that you want and lets dry each layer
well becuase you do basicly once a very good basic layer we take it here at ease we do a week to complete the rim
for track about 8 thin layers

the glue is indivudual choice
i use for road conti glue

for track a very cheap (hardware store here in europe)
bostik neoprene gel
if some body managed to get the tyre of while riding of the tryre i glueed on the my rims he get a wheel for free!!!


also this procudure is by bike mechanics already done before they go to the course at home
then the tyre side first clean the tyre with sitly with cloth of aceton
this removes and release agent applied by a tyre maker
in there moulds

then do the same procedure on the tyre as on the rim
for the last layer as on the rim not let the glue dried
if applied on the rim
(as first of all you streched the tyre to make sure it fits on the rim before any glueiing)
then apply the tyre on the rim with very slitly air
start on the valve side make sure the valve fits 100 % correct in its seating)
then go all the way aroun the rim
you have the most play on 180 opposite of the valve
make sure the tyre fits 100 on the rim control tyre and if out of line correct this
best to do this with a clock measureing device
pump the tyre up to 2 bar over its offical limit
make sure the tryre is perfect seated and round
the let it stand for a dry so the glue can dry out under presure
the next day release the presure to it normal values

if any glue on the rim this is normaly a indication the tyre and rim was not thin enough or you strted to early mounting the tyre to the rim

as you can see
easy piecy

the conti tyre we tested to 30 bar
DO NOT TRY THIS AT YOU HOME ALL YOU WIND SCREENS WILL GO OUT YOU HOUSE WHEN THE TYRE BLOWS

cees

[Too Tall]

When the tire blew were your ears ringing? WERE THEY???

The process you described is very well known and not unappreciated. Good to hear we are doing things right from the master :)

If you have some data or tests to reveal what adhesives work better on carbon it would be greatly appreciated.

In the USA folks like 3M Fastak as a plain hard drying adhesive esp. suited for cloth to metal....however the formulation may be suspect due to recent changes in the solvent component. All that to say, if you know a brand and spec. for a suitable alternative to 3M Fastak pls. clue us in.

Friends don't let fiends ride clinchers.

[ada@prorider.or]

When the tire blew were your ears ringing? WERE THEY???

The process you described is very well known and not unappreciated. Good to hear we are doing things right from the master :)

If you have some data or tests to reveal what adhesives work better on carbon it would be greatly appreciated.

In the USA folks like 3M Fastak as a plain hard drying adhesive esp. suited for cloth to metal....however the formulation may be suspect due to recent changes in the solvent component. All that to say, if you know a brand and spec. for a suitable alternative to 3M Fastak pls. clue us in.

Friends don't let fiends ride clinchers.

well we did it with water
!!!!
also i again i am just a bike mechanic nothing more or less
and i just do not know 3m fastak
and the glue i mentioned is here avaible around the corner at the store
normaly if you use a good neoprene glue wonder if you do what i did you gone have any problem or the conti glue

basicly also was the rim that did not meet the specs
try to put a tryre on you rim of your car that did not meet its specs probley would blow of also if not seated correctly
:no:

[ergott]

well first of all the rim must be according to the erto norm!!!!

How do you accuratly measure the ERTO?

[ada@prorider.or]

How do you accuratly measure the ERTO?


for you its enough if the mark is on the rim and on the tyre to make sure it will fit with out problems
they must have the same norm

etrto
european tyre rim and technical organisation

http://www.etrto.org/pub_gb.html
http://www.iso.org/iso/en/stdsdevelopment/liaisonorglist/LiaisonOrgDetailPage.LiaisonOrgDetail?ACRONYM=ETRT O