New Parlee - aero gone wild

[54ny77]

Parlee meets the Cervelo ugly stick. :bike:

http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/11/14/all-new-parlee-esx-aero-road-bike-slips-into-reality-ttir-tri-bike-updated/

http://brimages.bikeboardmedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Parlee-ESX-aero-road-bike01-600x448.jpg

http://brimages.bikeboardmedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Parlee-ESX-aero-road-bike05-600x399.jpg

[sales guy]

Agreed and sadly made in Asia like most of their stuff now. It used to be cool to know 100% of their frames were USA made and you could go watch them make them. No longer the case.

[rice rocket]

At this point, being made in Asia is probably a good thing. Can you imagine how much trial and error would be necessary to try to get workers here to understand composites at the same level as they do? :)

Our cheap-assery has gotten us into a loss of practical knowledge in this country.

Anyways, I like the frame. the TT hump isn't the prettiest of features, but it works.

[54ny77]

I'm not commenting on Parlee's Asian-sourced product. The stuff rocks--I can speak to that because I owned a Z4 and now have a Z5. Both were, and are, superb.

I'm just commenting on the aesthetics. That thing is hideous (IMHO, as it were).

Looks like aero just for aero's sake.

[FlashUNC]

Is the fork mounted backwards?

[oldpotatoe]

I'm not commenting on Parlee's Asian-sourced product. The stuff rocks--I can speak to that because I owned a Z4 and now have a Z5. Both were, and are, superb.

I'm just commenting on the aesthetics. That thing is hideous (IMHO, as it were).

Looks like aero just for aero's sake.

If it's like the one we built, holes for EPS/Di2, but group was mechanical, BUT, no 'kit' to make it mechanical, full length der housing and yes, it shifted like crap. 7900 group.

[slidey]

Oh dearie me...Its Quasimodo :help:

[texbike]

Parlee meets the Cervelo ugly stick. :bike:

http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/11/14/all-new-parlee-esx-aero-road-bike-slips-into-reality-ttir-tri-bike-updated/

http://brimages.bikeboardmedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Parlee-ESX-aero-road-bike01-600x448.jpg

http://brimages.bikeboardmedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Parlee-ESX-aero-road-bike05-600x399.jpg

Is this the new Parlee Venge?

Texbike

[sales guy]

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike asian sourced products. I just think its sad when companies like Parlee make their name on USA made products and then find it better to remove that from future product. Especially like i said when you used to be able to go watch your frame being finished and built.

How do you do that with this new frame? You can't. And that sucks. Cause it's cool to go check things out. Atmo.

[David Tollefson]

Fugly.

[bicycletricycle]

that cable in the top tube crap has gotta stop.

nasty

[FlashUNC]

that cable in the top tube crap has gotta stop.

nasty

And people wonder why some bikes like this shift like garbage.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm not commenting on Parlee's Asian-sourced product. The stuff rocks--I can speak to that because I owned a Z4 and now have a Z5. Both were, and are, superb.

I'm just commenting on the aesthetics. That thing is hideous (IMHO, as it were).

Looks like aero just for aero's sake.

If it's like the one we built, holes for EPS/Di2, but group was mechanical, BUT, no 'kit' to make it mechanical, full length der housing and yes, it shifted like crap. 7900 group.

[MattTuck]

Oh dearie me...Its Quasimodo :help:

That made me laugh.



I'm all for innovation and progress. I'm also all for my round tube steel frame with external cable routing and brass ferrules. :banana:

[christian]

If it's like the one we built, holes for EPS/Di2, but group was mechanical, BUT, no 'kit' to make it mechanical, full length der housing and yes, it shifted like crap. 7900 group.Yup, that's one of the reasons Ivy wanted to get a Z5 instead of a Z5SLi (the other was cost).

[firerescuefin]

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike asian sourced products. I just think its sad when companies like Parlee make their name on USA made products and then find it better to remove that from future product. Especially like i said when you used to be able to go watch your frame being finished and built.

How do you do that with this new frame? You can't. And that sucks. Cause it's cool to go check things out. Atmo.

You want to order (and pay for) a custom Parlee made in the USA....feel free. You still can. As the owner of the less exclusive Z5.....I am very happy with the finished product of their Asian product.

[tiretrax]

I think he's about 20 years late on the stealth fighter trend. What's next - Roccocco?

[blessthismess]

*ooops

[krhea]

You want to order (and pay for) a custom Parlee made in the USA....feel free. You still can. As the owner of the less exclusive Z5.....I am very happy with the finished product of their Asian product.

+1. I have an "Asian" Z5 hanging beside a "Yankee" Z4 and they "get along" just fine.

[ultraman6970]

popopooooo has been moving around for a while with some manufacturers.

I think he's about 20 years late on the stealth fighter trend. What's next - Roccocco?

[laupsi]

so I'm wondering, how much of what we perceive what a bike, (insert any object) should look like comes from function/performance compared to marketing?

[BumbleBeeDave]

Judging by this thread so far, with Serotta gone there seems to be some pressure to pick a new target of perference! :rolleyes:

BBD

[vqdriver]

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike asian sourced products. I just think its sad when companies like Parlee make their name on USA made products and then find it better to remove that from future product. Especially like i said when you used to be able to go watch your frame being finished and built.

How do you do that with this new frame? You can't. And that sucks. Cause it's cool to go check things out. Atmo.

what if it was outsourced to a european factory? would people complain that "oh man, they're made in italy now".....

[54ny77]

correct me if i'm wrong, but i was under the impression that the z4 has always been made overseas.

i had one when it first came out (our whole team/club did; parlee was an early sponsor), and it was awesome. fit like a glove.

+1. I have an "Asian" Z5 hanging beside a "Yankee" Z4 and they "get along" just fine.

[54ny77]

they've been doing it for over a half dozen years, first with the z4, so the outsourcing is not new.

they just don't make any mention of it. is that disingenuous? for some, perhaps. for others, no (i could care less where it's made).

if it's profitable enough for them to keep as much of the other production in-house, then more power to 'em.

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike asian sourced products. I just think its sad when companies like Parlee make their name on USA made products and then find it better to remove that from future product. Especially like i said when you used to be able to go watch your frame being finished and built.

How do you do that with this new frame? You can't. And that sucks. Cause it's cool to go check things out. Atmo.

[WickedWheels]

Say what you will about Asian-made stuff... I have yet to see a better finished frame at these price points coming from the US. It's very "clean" on the inside... something Guru or Trek can't match.

As for the aerodynamics and the look... they had to do something to appeal to the modern market. I get round tubes. I like them. But the biggest "complaint" I hear about the aesthetics (especially from newer riders) is that the bikes look bland. Personally, I don't agree, but I understand their point. Pinarellos, Cervelos, Tarmacs... they look "hot" next to a black on black round-tubed Parlee. It takes a very seasoned rider to really appreciate the standard Parlee's, but those seasoned riders aren't paying the bills for bike companies. Bike builders, perhaps, but not companies. There just isn't enough of them.

I ordered an ESX for my shop as soon as I heard about them. To get around the "black on black" look I'm also running a promotion in my shop that includes a $500 credit towards a custom paint job. I'm also not stocking any more black on black bikes. All an attempt to get these bikes to create an aesthtically-based emotional response that's worthy of the ride quality.

[T.J.]

I agree about the "non flashy" look taking the Parlee off the radar for newer riders attracted more to the paint jobs on the big box offerings. I've been on a matte black z2 with eps and not a second look on group rides. May not grab your attention visually but dang the ride....





Say what you will about Asian-made stuff... I have yet to see a better finished frame at these price points coming from the US. It's very "clean" on the inside... something Guru or Trek can't match.

As for the aerodynamics and the look... they had to do something to appeal to the modern market. I get round tubes. I like them. But the biggest "complaint" I hear about the aesthetics (especially from newer riders) is that the bikes look bland. Personally, I don't agree, but I understand their point. Pinarellos, Cervelos, Tarmacs... they look "hot" next to a black on black round-tubed Parlee. It takes a very seasoned rider to really appreciate the standard Parlee's, but those seasoned riders aren't paying the bills for bike companies. Bike builders, perhaps, but not companies. There just isn't enough of them.

I ordered an ESX for my shop as soon as I heard about them. To get around the "black on black" look I'm also running a promotion in my shop that includes a $500 credit towards a custom paint job. I'm also not stocking any more black on black bikes. All an attempt to get these bikes to create an aesthtically-based emotional response that's worthy of the ride quality.

Here's the price list, by the way:

http://www.bicycleplayground.com/sitesearch.cfm?search=ESX&goSiteSearch=go

Frames aren't cheap, but the complete builds are reasonable (relatively). Yes, Campy is an option.

And sorry for the shameless self-promotion... sort of.

[Fishbike]

Looks like the bubble near the valve stem on that wonky tube I needed to replace on my front tire. . . . Ba dum ba dum ba dum ba dum. . . .

[SPOKE]

Judging by this thread so far, with Serotta gone there seems to be some pressure to pick a new target of perference! :rolleyes:

BBD

BBD....mind reader.

[Climb01742]

I actually kinda like how it looks. Not saying it's pretty, but I accept its form following function aesthetic. Different horses for different courses. If I was looking for beauty, I'd look elsewhere, but if I was in the market for aero, I'd certainly check it out. Should I go sit in the corner by myself?

[CDollarsign]

At what speed does the 'aero' tubing of a bike really make a difference. Overcoming the resistance created by your body seems to be 95% of the work load. I guess, I just don't see the point in all the engineering effort for such a small gain.

[Climb01742]

At what speed does the 'aero' tubing of a bike really make a difference. Overcoming the resistance created by your body seems to be 95% of the work load. I guess, I just don't see the point in all the engineering effort for such a small gain.

Someone told me, rightly or wrongly, that aero benefits don't kick in until you get above 22-23mph or so. Can anyone comment?

[bfd]

Parlee meets the Cervelo ugly stick. :bike:

http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/11/14/all-new-parlee-esx-aero-road-bike-slips-into-reality-ttir-tri-bike-updated/

http://brimages.bikeboardmedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Parlee-ESX-aero-road-bike01-600x448.jpg

http://brimages.bikeboardmedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Parlee-ESX-aero-road-bike05-600x399.jpg

Wow, that Parlee looks like it came out of the same Taiwanese factory as this Giant:

http://www.mellowjohnnys.com/uploads/profile-white-600.jpg

Good Luck! :eek::butt::mad:

[54ny77]

go sit in the corner and wear the kamm tail dunce cap.

:p

http://cdn.triathlete-europe.competitor.com/files/2013/07/101.jpg

I actually kinda like how it looks. Not saying it's pretty, but I accept its form following function aesthetic. Different horses for different courses. If I was looking for beauty, I'd look elsewhere, but if I was in the market for aero, I'd certainly check it out. Should I go sit in the corner by myself?

[sales guy]

I know they have made frames in Asia for years now. It's their choice. I understand the monetary aspect of it. My thing is, if you make your name on being a USA made frame you can watch being painted and made, then you switch to Asia, it's sad. Would I feel the same if it were made in Europe, yeah. Us manufacturing is sadly declining. Especially in areas we pioneered. And it flat out sucks. And yeah, they don't really mention it's made in Asia. Which is like when Cervelo kept saying the frames were made in Canada and they weren't. Not saying Parlee is saying/doing that, but if you are happy to make something overseas, own it.

Oh, and I would pick that giant propel over the Parlee btw.

[oldpotatoe]

at what speed does the 'aero' tubing of a bike really make a difference. Overcoming the resistance created by your body seems to be 95% of the work load. I guess, i just don't see the point in all the marketing effort for such a small gain.

fify

[54ny77]

the top tube wart is on trek's tri bikes:

http://slowtwitch.com/images/trek/TK13_SC_Beauty_Profile_white_web_610.jpg

i get the aero thing for those who "must have" it, meaning some people will want it just because they can say it's the most aero and fastest most bestest bike ever while stuffing chocolate croissant in face post-ride. hey that's cool and that's their choice, and parlee will fill that niche because there's definitely a market for it.

my "regular" z5 ain't a simple round-tubed parlee by any stretch either (which i admire while stuffing chocolate croissant in my own face post-ride....), but it's just not so visually striking or specifically intended like the new one.

[WickedWheels]

Wow, that Parlee looks like it came out of the same Taiwanese factory as this Giant:

http://www.mellowjohnnys.com/uploads/profile-white-600.jpg

Good Luck! :eek::butt::mad:

If it came out of the Giant factory it wouldn't be such a bad thing, considering how many Pinarello's, Colnago's, Trek's, Scott's, etc are coming out of there.

As for manufacturing... they're making these in Asia, but not giving up on US production. This isn't Cannondale shutting down their factory and going to China. No need to get upset about it. If you want the US-made Parlee then get one.

As for aerodynamics... I was always under the impression that 80% of aero drag is the rider, 15% are the wheels and 5% is the frame. So yes, this is chasing the last fraction of a small percentage, but why not do it if they can retain the ride quality.

The problem with most aero bikes is that the handle and feel like garbage. If Parlee found the magic formula then more power to them. Cervelo certainly hasn't. Neither has Specialized or Felt. There seems to be room for an aero road bike that handles and rides well. Parlee is not a marketing company and their product, even Asian-made, is very well regarded. I ordered these based on their reputation. I'm assuming that if these guys say that it "rides well" then it does.

[firerescuefin]

They've never hidden the fact that they're made in Asia. It's in every piece of press and review I've seen on the bike...and their customs are made in the US. You're not getting a Crumpton/Alchemy for what your buying a Z5 (or their other Asian frames for). Not sure where you're trying to go with this.

I know they have made frames in Asia for years now. It's their choice. I understand the monetary aspect of it. My thing is, if you make your name on being a USA made frame you can watch being painted and made, then you switch to Asia, it's sad. Would I feel the same if it were made in Europe, yeah. Us manufacturing is sadly declining. Especially in areas we pioneered. And it flat out sucks. And yeah, they don't really mention it's made in Asia. Which is like when Cervelo kept saying the frames were made in Canada and they weren't. Not saying Parlee is saying/doing that, but if you are happy to make something overseas, own it.

Oh, and I would pick that giant propel over the Parlee btw.

[CunegoFan]

I know they have made frames in Asia for years now. It's their choice. I understand the monetary aspect of it. My thing is, if you make your name on being a USA made frame you can watch being painted and made, then you switch to Asia, it's sad. Would I feel the same if it were made in Europe, yeah. Us manufacturing is sadly declining. Especially in areas we pioneered. And it flat out sucks. And yeah, they don't really mention it's made in Asia. Which is like when Cervelo kept saying the frames were made in Canada and they weren't. Not saying Parlee is saying/doing that, but if you are happy to make something overseas, own it.

Oh, and I would pick that giant propel over the Parlee btw.

It seems to me it muddles the brand, which may be on the road to the Trek business model where everything except the top model is made in Asia. Maybe there is a middle road and the upper half of the range can be made in the U.S. while the bottom half is made in Asia, but the temptation to goose profits by progressively off-shoring more and more models will be hard to resist. It does not imply anything about the quality of their final product...but you can get made in Asia frames from anyone.

[oldpotatoe]

It seems to me it muddles the brand, which may be on the road to the Trek business model where everything except the top model is made in Asia. Maybe there is a middle road and the upper half of the range can be made in the U.S. while the bottom half is made in Asia, but the temptation to goose profits by progressively off-shoring more and more models will be hard to resist. It does not imply anything about the quality of their final product...but you can get made in Asia frames from anyone.

Merckx, Pinarello, Colnago, DeRosa to name a few.

[sales guy]

They've never hidden the fact that they're made in Asia. It's in every piece of press and review I've seen on the bike...and their customs are made in the US. You're not getting a Crumpton/Alchemy for what your buying a Z5 (or their other Asian frames for). Not sure where you're trying to go with this.


In not going anywhere with it. I'm not saying they are lying either. Just wish more companies would make or attempt to make their products here vs Asia.

Is that a bad thing to wish for?

[oldpotatoe]

It seems to me it muddles the brand, which may be on the road to the Trek business model where everything except the top model is made in Asia. Maybe there is a middle road and the upper half of the range can be made in the U.S. while the bottom half is made in Asia, but the temptation to goose profits by progressively off-shoring more and more models will be hard to resist. It does not imply anything about the quality of their final product...but you can get made in Asia frames from anyone.

[/B]


In not going anywhere with it. I'm not saying they are lying either. Just wish more companies would make or attempt to make their products here vs Asia.

Is that a bad thing to wish for?

Flat market, $/profits are scarce, ain't gonna happen.

Parlee was upfront when they offshore-Ed. The Z-5.

Kinda like the Calfee Luna, premanufactured lugs. Established name lesser priced model, with the name, happens sll the time, Campagnolo in Poland.

[Mark McM]

At what speed does the 'aero' tubing of a bike really make a difference. Overcoming the resistance created by your body seems to be 95% of the work load. I guess, I just don't see the point in all the engineering effort for such a small gain.

Whether the difference an 'aero' frame is significant is up to to the particular needs or wants of the individual rider. But it can be quantified.

On flat roads and at typical racing speeds, the two largest drag forces are aerodynamic drag and tire rolling resistance. Aerodynamic drag is about 85% of the total drag, and rolling resistance is about 12% (the last few percent is drivetrain and bearing losses).

For the aerodynamic drag, the rider is responsible for roughly 80%. Of the remaining 20%, the the front wheel is roughly 7%, the rear wheel is a little less, call it about 6%, and the rest of the bike makes up the remaining 7% or so. Which means that the aerodynamics of the frame is about significant as the aerodynamics of each wheel. Given all the time and engineering resources that have been expended to improve wheel aerodynamics, is it surprising that some amount of engineering resources are also being expended to improve frame aerodynamics?

[bikeridah]

Just get a Calfee, still made in the USA and cheaper last I checked. Love my Tetra!

[Mark McM]

Someone told me, rightly or wrongly, that aero benefits don't kick in until you get above 22-23mph or so. Can anyone comment?

There is no magic speed at which aerodynamic benefits "kick in". Aero drag reductions are beneficial at all speeds, although they become a larger portion of total drag as speeds increase.

Power losses from rolling resistance, drivetrain and bearing drag increase roughly proportional to speed, but aerodynamic power losses increase with the cube of speed. At very low speeds, aerodynamic losses are smaller than the other drag losses, but by about 10 - 12 mph, aerodynamic losses grow to be about 50% of total drag losses. At typical racing speeds (25 - 30 mph), aerodynamic losses can be 85 - 90% of total power.

So, there is no transition speed at which aero drag reductions "kick-in"; there is still a small benefit even at low speeds. However, as you go faster, aero benefits become a larger percentage of total drag.

[tsampson]

Maybe beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but i think it looks great. And not overdone as far as aerodynamics go, it still has a hope of being comfy

[#campyuserftw]

As for aerodynamics... I was always under the impression that 80% of aero drag is the rider, 15% are the wheels and 5% is the frame.

+1

We're all lollipops, and the bike is the stick.

Can't wait to get my Z5. :cool:

[thegunner]

Maybe beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but i think it looks great. And not overdone as far as aerodynamics go, it still has a hope of being comfy

yeahhhh... i kinda like the aesthetic too. but i also like the deep hoops look as much as i love the low profile belgian classic wheels with tan sidewalls, so who knows?

[buddybikes]

Going south from Beverly, and opposite end of spectrum check out the new XCR firefly, athena


http://www.flickr.com/photos/fireflybicycles/

[krismac23]

Venge and foil way way way better looking.

[WickedWheels]

That firefly is hot. There are certain guys you just really want to see succeed. Firefly is one of them.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[WickedWheels]

Venge and foil way way way better looking.

Look past the paint job... Or spec the Parlee with the same one.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[alessandro]

Things that occur in nature...

http://www.trbimg.com/img-1349308475/turbine/beluga.jpg-20121003

...and things that don't:

http://farm1.staticflickr.com/90/276618173_c100e374e6.jpg


Parlee meets the Cervelo ugly stick. :bike:

http://brimages.bikeboardmedia.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Parlee-ESX-aero-road-bike05-600x399.jpg

[Wesley37]

Looks like aero just for aero's sake.

Um, yeah. Kind of the point. Call me crazy, but being aero should be a higher priority than looking aero.

[rice rocket]

You crazy.

[54ny77]

but one can be aero AND stylish!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Ry5lqSqZcBs/TZRGXviFWiI/AAAAAAAAC6Y/Oil6liO55ig/s1600/old+man+in+little+car.jpg

Um, yeah. Kind of the point. Call me crazy, but being aero should be a higher priority than looking aero.

[benb]

I guess my reasoning for "never going to buy this kind of bike" is simply that not riding in the drops all the time probably completely negates the aero savings of the frame, and wearing the dunce cap helmet is a bigger benefit.

Yah I get it that they want to spend money on it.. but it is kind of pointless for 99% of the riders when body position is 80%+ of the aero drag.

It's like aero bars that are level with the saddle. Why bother.

This one isn't that ugly IMO.

[CunegoFan]

I guess my reasoning for "never going to buy this kind of bike" is simply that not riding in the drops all the time probably completely negates the aero savings of the frame, and wearing the dunce cap helmet is a bigger benefit.

Yah I get it that they want to spend money on it.. but it is kind of pointless for 99% of the riders when body position is 80%+ of the aero drag.

It's like aero bars that are level with the saddle. Why bother.

This one isn't that ugly IMO.

At recreational speeds tire and tube selection makes a larger difference than the frame.

So does clothing, at all speeds, recreational and above.

[thegunner]

I guess my reasoning for "never going to buy this kind of bike" is simply that not riding in the drops all the time probably completely negates the aero savings of the frame, and wearing the dunce cap helmet is a bigger benefit.

Yah I get it that they want to spend money on it.. but it is kind of pointless for 99% of the riders when body position is 80%+ of the aero drag.

It's like aero bars that are level with the saddle. Why bother.

This one isn't that ugly IMO.

http://gerard.cc/2011/09/27/worlds-bar/

just sayin'. Cancellara's position is technically more aero on the hoods and flattened out than in the drops.

[Bob Ross]

At recreational speeds tire and tube selection makes a larger difference than the frame.

So does clothing, at all speeds, recreational and above.


My favorite aerodynamic trivia was an item reported by the MIT cycling team a few years back, where their wind tunnel experiments confirmed that moving a single water bottle from the down tube cage to the seat tube cage yielded a greater aerodynamic benefit than switching from standard rims to deep "aero" rims.

Or something like that...


Anyway, yeah, that Parlee is fugly. But I won't hold that against them, and I'd still happily ride the crap out of a Z2 or Z5.

[uno-speedo]

Some photos of the ESX here: http://instagram.com/sigmasportbikeshop

[Ozrider]

I'm looking forward to some aero data and a comparison test against some other aero road bikes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

[kgreene10]

Whether the difference an 'aero' frame is significant is up to to the particular needs or wants of the individual rider. But it can be quantified.

On flat roads and at typical racing speeds, the two largest drag forces are aerodynamic drag and tire rolling resistance. Aerodynamic drag is about 85% of the total drag, and rolling resistance is about 12% (the last few percent is drivetrain and bearing losses).

For the aerodynamic drag, the rider is responsible for roughly 80%. Of the remaining 20%, the the front wheel is roughly 7%, the rear wheel is a little less, call it about 6%, and the rest of the bike makes up the remaining 7% or so. Which means that the aerodynamics of the frame is about significant as the aerodynamics of each wheel. Given all the time and engineering resources that have been expended to improve wheel aerodynamics, is it surprising that some amount of engineering resources are also being expended to improve frame aerodynamics?

Very sensible and helpful post -- your other one too. I appreciate these informed voices on the forum. I appreciate the crazy posts too, but for entertainment value.

So, Cervelo claims that aero drag from the frame is 9%. Of course, they have an interest in saying it's larger. 7 vs 9 isn't much, but since I read the Cervelo number just a couple of days ago, I figured I would mention it.

The Parlee is no uglier than any other aero frame in my book, with the possible exception of the Propel that I think looks quite good. If the Parlee rides well and there's some data to indicate that it saves more than a handful of watts, I would definitely consider it.