What has made Serotta so successful?

[sellsworth]

Beyond the obvious (great product, great service) what do you think has made Serotta so successful?

[weisan]

Satisfied Customer. One at a time.

[Bill Bove]

They taste great and less filling.

You nailed it in your question, great bikes and great service. Plus a little luck along the way. Good and bad, how Ben dealt with the bad breaks may very well be the secret ingredient.

[Gothard]

Their catalogs are what caught my eye the first time I saw the brand (kind of like Kirk's website now). A lot of feelgood factor in these pictures. Then I read them, and the technology behind the Legend tubing sold me.

[David Kirk]

30 Years of refusing to compromise.

Dave

[Bill Bove]

I like Slurpee's-Slurpee's are good-you get Slurpee's at 7-11-7-11 rides Serotta's-ergot Serotta's are good :confused:
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
What would I be riding if Dunkin' DoNuts had sponsered a team back in the day...

[SoCalSteve]

It's the TUBES, Damnit!

nuff said

[e-RICHIE]

It's the TUBES, Damnit!

nuff said




"...a baby's arm holding an apple."
www.thetubes.com

[CNY rider]

Satisfied Customer. One at a time.


I really think this is the answer.

The whole company seems to know who their customers are, and they are determined to keep them happy. That starts with quality dealers/fitters, outstanding bicycles coming out of the factory, and real attention to customer service.

[Serotta PETE]

30 Years of refusing to compromise.

Dave

The above says it all.

Great product, engineered for performance and customer expectation, customer satisfaction second to none, and great team!!! :banana: :banana: :banana:

[Fixed]

bro we are good ads. the bros who love cycling love serotta i.m.h.o. cheers :beer:

[shinomaster]

that it's the Colorado concept tubing..

[Lost Weekend]

The old fashioned way- They earned it :banana:

[Serpico]

ein (http://www.sinnleer.de/banane/index.htm)

zwei (http://www.sinnleer.de/banane/zwei.htm)

drei (http://www.sinnleer.de/banane/drei.htm)

vier (http://www.sinnleer.de/banane/vier.htm)

fünf (http://www.sinnleer.de/banane/fuenf.htm)

[andy mac]

maybe some tangibles too like:

this forum, the owners club, fit school, the open house, above and beyond warranty stuff and i bet the pretty quick turn around helps as well.

[inGobwetrust]

I like Slurpee's-Slurpee's are good-you get Slurpee's at 7-11-7-11 rides Serotta's-ergot Serotta's are good :confused:
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
What would I be riding if Dunkin' DoNuts had sponsered a team back in the day...


"Hey, guys...... Big Gulps, alright!"

[William]

"Hey, guys...... Big Gulps, alright!"

Does anyone REALLY need that much Mountain Dew?? :confused:


William

[PeterW]

Um, howabout marketing. The fit-cycle is marketing genius, bringing the custom bike to the lbs, blessed by certified fitters. Serotta has spawned an industry of custom stuff available at your lbs. Look at what Rocket is now doing with its line. Look at all the shops that are fitting (and now training) shops, rather than traditional bike shops.

From an article in Fast Company: "Just 12 bikes a day. Ben Serotta most definitely did not attend the Starbucks school of "new luxury" marketing. When you look at things Ben's way, the future of luxury marketing takes on an entirely different dimension; micro-niche rather than mass market. In some categories, the collective power of these niche markets might eventually amount to more in the way of sales and profits than do traditional mass markets."

Among marketing professionals, the Serotta approach is well known. Notwithstanding the excellence of the bikes (no dispute there), Serotta's success is tied to the 40+ professionals who want something cooler, more custom than a Trek or C-dale (and don't have the cycling experience to know about the old-school builders). And no three year wait.

Hey Serottas are awesome, the company is great, I love this forum, etc.

But the marketing plan is genius. I would imagine that Serotta sells a number of bikes to folks buying their first or second real road bike (or at least their first bike after "getting back" to the sport after a 20 year lay-off. IMHO, if you haven't cycled in 20 years, you are not getting back, you are starting again). IMHO, no one should be spending that kind of money for their first bike! But these folks don't a "production" bike any more than they want a Ford Taurus.

My advice to friends getting back to cycling = buy a Fuji (you get the idea)and ride the eff out of it. Rather than get all sized up for a custom rig out of the gate. They never follow my advice. They buy a Serotta, get sized up by Mondonico, etc.

Is it just me, or is nothing worse than a newbie on a $5K rig?!

Maybe I should be happy they are supporting the industry that I love, but it stills rubs me the wrong way. Maybe because I spent too many years as a kid on second-hand bikes with Ofmega or Galli bits.

It is no coincidence that Serotta's micro-niche success as a luxury brand parallels similar success of luxury brands in other industries, like watches, shirts, kitchen appliances, you name it.

Confession = I wouldn't buy a Serotta for fear of falling in the micro-niche (because I'm almost there).

[flydhest]

PeterW is undoubtedly right to some extent, but I still think there is more. The marketing is great, it is effective. I have heard so many people think they are speaking their own thoughts while almost quoting Serotta literature. But the marketing, in my view, is a reflection of the company. I'm likely biased and blinded, as I consider Ben a personal friend, but by gum and by golly, his integrity as a person is manifested in a great deal of what I've seen of the company. They do innovation in order to sell bikes. Fair enough. They make a profit. Yep. But there continues to be something else about the company that is expressed in the marketing--perhaps amplified in the marketing or cleaned up in the marketing to make it seem like the whole company is all sweetness and light. I have never run a business, but I am sure there is a lot of bottom line worrying and that sort of thing. Nevertheless, Ben is in the company (for better and worse, no doubt) and that fact underlies the marketing and the success of the company.

[Climb01742]

they are the real deal.

and in my professional opinion, their marketing isn't a "plan". it's a natural, organic outgrowth of who they are and what they believe. some ad slut like me didn't come up with it.

the fit cycle IS brilliant marketing. but ben didn't create it to be a marketing tool. it was a fit tool. organically it became a marketing tool.

the best marketing on earth simply finds out who and what the company really is. ad sluts like us, when we're doing our job right, simply dig deep enough until we find out "the truth" about a company, then we present that truth. 90% of companies have no idea what that truth is about themselves, or they have no truth to tell.

ben does. he and serotta are the real deal. customers sense that i think. if only more companies had a true core of beliefs. it would either make my job easier...or put me out of business. :beer:

[andy mac]

i have seen the word 'marketing' thrown around a lot here but i'd like a definition of terms. what do things you guys/gals consider falls under marketing?

off the top of my head, which mind you is quite empty, i don't feel like serotta has much of a paid for presence.

i agree with others above that fitting etc wasn't dreamt up as a marketing tool, just a way to hook people up with the right bikes.

for example to me bose = marketing driven company.

serrota, from what i know, seems to just be trying to build a better mousetrap. i am sure they, like many other bike builders, could find ways to make more $$ but that would compromise their love and principals. to me, that's what sets these guys apart. the bikes come from a pure place.

(ok, i have compromised my love and principals before but i was in college and she wasn't that ugly)

[David Kirk]

Quality product combined with top notch customer service is the best marketing one can buy. The quality IS the marketing.

Dave

[Serotta PETE]

That is a very good question for the term is much used and some abused.

In its strickest terms MARKETING is a means by which one communicates with potenital customer base/segment = One wants them to know of your product, what the product will do for them, and lastly what separates it from the competitors. (Hopefully the product is not viewed as a commodity where the main point is price as the only differentiator. )

This marketing can take on many different views from paid advertisements, endorsements, trade/sport publication reviews, DEMO fleet, strong/knowledge dealers, OPEN HOUSE>>>, etc...(this FORUM is definitely a marketing tool by the definition above.)

I am probably one of the folks who sounds like an ad for SEROTTA. If they did not back up their ads/marketing with PRODUCT, SERVICE, INNOVATION, and the highest customer sat in the industry - I and most of the other Serotta supporters would be absent from the forum and from the support of the product. (MOST of us LONG TIMERS are very hard nosed business folks who have been around the block a few times). If it was all fluff in regard to the product we would eventually see it and move on>

Serotta is a entitiy/family from Father BEN, Son Flydhest, Uncle Sandy, Big Kelly, Steve F, Jason, Jarrett,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Smiley AND dealers like Mike from CYCLESPORT, who has been a dealer for about 30 years, - and the list goes on.

(Yes you knew I was going to get that CYCLESPORT plug in - for I have been dealing with them for 30 years also)

As to someone wanting a SEROTTA instead of FUGI - Get what your heart wants (per SPOKES - LIFE TO SHORT FOR A CHEAP BIKE). Additonally, "falling in the micro-niche" - most of us are individualist and thus marketing plans do not work for long. (MANY have numerous SEROTTA and an in depth knowledge and love of cycling).

SEROTTA delivers on product and customer service!!!!

[OldDog]

I think Ben and staff just love what they do.

[dbrk]

Leaving aside that Serotta has always made really nice bikes, I think the reason for popularity, such as it is, is quite simple. It goes like this...

Many guys (and it's mostly guys) go into a bike shop either on a production floor bike or with an old bike and they want to get into (or further) into riding. Serotta's dealer offers him a "custom fit" (this is where I get all nervous, personally speaking) and a bike with history and panache. It's the dealer connection to a shop, maybe to some buds, but it's that a custom bike has a local connection. Add in the Serotta fit cycle, not for the fit as such but as a way of instilling confidence, deepening the connection to the shop/fitter, and now you have a process that men will dig. Sale. Buying a bike isn't like buying a bespoke suit or going to a jeweller to plunk down the big ones for, say, an A.Lange. It's more manly somehow and the "custom process" (fitter, local shop, paraphenalia of fitting, etc.) sells the bike.

I don't mean to be cynical because Serotta has always made great bikes. I liked them better when they were stock geometries. Okay, I said it. YMMV. I like lugs too, so I'm no longer a candidate but happy I own my CSi. I'd make some changes to mine, just a weee bit taller but it's fine and a more beautiful build you can't imagine...of course, it's DK but Serotta's lugged bikes for the past ten years have been just fantastically clean.

Custom bikes sell well at retail and far, far worse if they are being resold than a stock geos.


dbrk

[Climb01742]

could your analysis be perhaps a tad cynical, douglas?

[dbrk]

No, not cynical. I think the folks who visit here are the exception, not the "typical" Serotta customer. Afterall, Serotta makes somewhere in the neighborhood fo 3,000 frames a year or so (that's from memory, I think, but I could be mistaken). Anyway, that doesn't really matter. Serotta is rarity: a small American bicycle production company. There are very few like them left: IF, Waterford, Seven, Moots. Ya'll can think these are custom and special bikes, and they all are in their way. But these companies make bikes on a scale a LOT bigger than, say, Sachs, Goodrich, or Tournesol, and a LOT smaller than Cdale or Trek. Each of these companies has found a way to flourish with their bikes. Serotta's line is the fit machine, the fitters, the dealers, the local connection that sells their bikes as the ultimate choice. I see nothing wrong with that nor is that cynical. I think it might just actually be true.

We can go the romantic route and say that Serotta has an unstinting commitment to customer service, a long history of great bikes, a reputation all hardwon, and all of that would be true. They would all be reasons the bikes sell. But if you hang out in a dealership and see the demographic, watch the guys who come in (yes, guys), hear their stories, then see how they get "fit" on the machine (which is a selling device as much as it is a fitting device) and I think, well, my analysis makes perfect sense. All of these reasons make up the reason. Serotta makes great bikes. How Serotta _sells_ bikes is for a more reasons than that.

dbrk

[Climb01742]

an alternative hypothesis (and i admit it's only a hypothesis) is that for a series of reasons serotta has gotten the reputation for building the "best" bikes readily available at a bike shop. many a customer (i would guess) has gone into a shop and asked, what's the best bike you have? the fit and the fitter are surely a part of the equation, but i believe an argument could be made that the rise of serotta has coincided with the rise of disposable income and the rise of the "luxury" category of goods. attainable greatness is one aspect that separates the less-attainable bikes of richie and dario from ben's. ben has figured a way to make his "best" more easily grasped. just a theory, though.

[vaxn8r]

Right on DBRK. I couldn't agree more. I even think I've posted pretty much the same here before. Serotta has built a recognizable name over the years and is, deservedly so, cashing in on it through name recognition.

The people DBRK and PeterW refer to have never heard of Sachs, Kirk, Goodrich, Steelman, Della Santa..... But they've heard of Serotta. There's nothing wrong with that because we all know Serotta builds a beautiful, functional race bike and they are accessable to buy in almost any city in the USA. Try buying a Vanilla. Nobody sells them. You have to make a call and talk to Mr. White. A lot of people simply don't feel comfortbale doing that because that would "expose" how little they really know or ride. Easier to work with the fitter/sales guy at the bike shop.

Plus, you get a little bit of the prestige thing going. I talked to a TV saleseguy last week. He routinely has people walk in off the street who don't profess to know anything about TV's but they want the most expensive TV they sell. Also, why you're at it, throw in the most expensive audio system they sell. Don't want to hear about anything else. These people do not want to be told to go ride a Fuji for a year or two and come back and talk. It's not really about the bike after all. People on this forum excluded of course...cause we really know what's what. ;)

[e-RICHIE]

an alternative hypothesis (and i admit it's only a hypothesis) is that for a series of reasons serotta has gotten the reputation for building the "best" bikes readily available at a bike shop. many a customer (i would guess) has gone into a shop and asked, what's the best bike you have? the fit and the fitter are surely a part of the equation, but i believe an argument could be made that the rise of serotta has coincided with the rise of disposable income and the rise of the "luxury" category of goods. attainable greatness is one aspect that separates the less-attainable bikes of richie and dario from ben's. ben has figured a way to make his "best" more easily grasped. just a theory, though.

ben has his ideas manufactured.
dario, myself, and others are still
"also" the work force. neither way
is better.

btw - serotta's rise isn't a recent phenomenon; ever since
ben showed a white, oval tubed track frame at the int'l
cycle show in ny circa 1976 (the first modern aero frame),
serotta cycles has been at the vanguard. they are one of
the few frame shops that succeeded without going the
industry/commercial route. sure, money does change
hands, but ben's roots as a framebuilder are quite evident
in the innovations we see from serotta cycles today.
despite being "big", he's still from the old neighborhood.

[Climb01742]

btw - serotta's rise isn't a recent phenomenon;

you're right, richie, i should have been more clear. the rise in disposable income and luxury goods, in marketing terms, dates from early-mid 90s to today. which i would guess coincides with serotta's greatest growth.

[manet]

despite being "big", he's still from the old neighborhood.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.littleitalysd.com/images/stickball/02.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.littleitalysd.com/StickballLeague02.asp&h=397&w=600&sz=37&tbnid=q6aVhmseGnlMRM:&tbnh=88&tbnw=133&hl=en&start=13&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dlittle%2Bitaly%2Bstick%2Bball%26svnum %3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG

[e-RICHIE]

you're right, richie, i should have been more clear. the rise in disposable income and luxury goods, in marketing terms, dates from early-mid 90s to today. which i would guess coincides with serotta's greatest growth.


it's not that i disagree...
but how do we know when the greatest growth occured?
this is a 30-plus year run. there were many peaks on the
timeline. ben has always been a cut above, or at least
over to one side. the internet has a way of distorting many
things, reputations among them. i think it's hard to rival
the many successes serotta cycles had in other eras, yet
forums and websites normally trump up only recent exploits.
just thinkin' aloud imho mp.

[bcm119]

dbrk and vaxn8r nailed it. To a large portion of serotta customers, calling up Sacha or e-richie would be mad painful, if they even knew of their existence. And again, thats not this forum, but I suspect it may be a good chunk of serotta owners. I'd go as far as to say that for many, their ego is at stake when buying a new bike... the serotta system of buying custom makes it EZ: it waives the usual requirement of having ridden enough to know what you need from a custom.

[weisan]

eBay

[e-RICHIE]

i can't figure out what this part meant:

the serotta system of buying custom makes it EZ: it waives the usual requirement of having ridden enough to know what you need from a custom.

[manet]

1. the maid tells you when your room is dusty?
2. the maid brings the dust when she arrives?

[PeterW]

This thread asks why are they so successful, not why are they great bikes.

From many of the folks I see riding Serottas, they are on them because of the brand, the same way they cook on a Viking, pull a beer out of a Sub-Z, and pass out on a Swedish wundermattress. There's no Consumer Reports for bikes. Rich folks buy expensive bikes (I have a friend, now buying his first road bike, proclaiming that he wants his "lifetime bike." Effen absurd!)

Hey, this isn't Serotta's fault. But my initial point is the fit cycle is the marketing tool that makes it all possible (whether intended or not).

Not denying that many buy them because of Ben's reputation, history, service. Just saying that . . . well, what DBRK said. Wurd.

My reverse snobbery = shop at Sear's. KENMORE!

[bcm119]

i can't figure out what this part meant:

It means you can buy a serotta w/o articulating your riding style, expectations of the new bike, etc quite easily... without having ridden much at all.... just by working with your friendly lbs salesman. Working with a small builder would be harder for both parties involved if the rider didn't know what he wanted or how to express it. Thus the person who is new to cycling and who "needs" a pretty custom bike finds the serotta system appealing. Just pointing out how this system broadens their target demographic.

[e-RICHIE]

It means you can buy a serotta w/o articulating your riding style, expectations of the new bike, etc quite easily... without having ridden much at all.... just by working with your friendly lbs salesman. Working with a small builder would be harder for both parties involved if the rider didn't know what he wanted or how to express it. Thus the person who is new to cycling and who "needs" a pretty custom bike finds the serotta system appealing. Just pointing out how this system broadens their target demographic.


i don't find this to be the case. it has less to do with the bicycle.
i don't think people that buy serottas know more or less about their
riding habits than folks that buy anything else named thusfar. they
are buying the corporate culture - the unquantifiable, unidentifiable
zeitgeist thingy that was touched on earlier in the thread. as far as
the target demographic goes, serotta manufactures 30-40 times more
units per year than the other builders. how you market that many
units is a completely different animal from being on the smaller side
of that production equation.

[bcm119]

You mean the "mystique"? I think that exists amongst the enthusiasts, but not the newer cyclist. People attracted to the corporate culture don't jump into it on the sales floor... they know they want a serotta before they go to the lbs. But I think the other, perhaps larger, faction of buyers are sold serottas on the sales floor, when the fitter says "hey, how would you like a custom bike?" Its a new notion, and as dbrk said, kind of a manly one. The system is selling them there, not the mystique: anyone who goes home to research custom bikes will find that its a lot easier to go with the serotta than get in over their heads with another builder. imho.

[e-RICHIE]

You mean the "mystique"?<cut>The system is selling them there, not the mystique: anyone who goes home to research custom bikes will find that its a lot easier to go with the serotta than get in over their heads with another builder. imho.


the system is the mystique. it's that way with all intangibles, no?
if they, as you write, go with the serotta, it's because the chain of
distribution has made it very convenient to buy one at an LBS. i don't
think they're in over their heads if they go elsewhere; if they do, it's
because they want a different corporate culture.

[bcm119]

ER: fair enough. I think the mystique for many is the bike itself though. I know you have a more practical view. To continue this would be mp, its past my beer time. cheers.

[e-RICHIE]

ER: fair enough. I think the mystique for many is the bike itself though. I know you have a more practical view. To continue this would be mp, its past my beer time. cheers.


seriously? i believe the entire experience is
the mystique. the bicycle is simply part of the
whole. gestalt, etcetera. and you want mp?
here's your mp:
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=e-RICHIE&word2=BCM119


banana daiquiri

[bcm119]

I think we're both wrong:

Mystique (http://www.mcauslan.com/en/images/products/cider-close.jpg)

[dave thompson]

I think e-RICHIE is very right; Serotta has been more than successful in establishing the mystique of the whole buying a bike, it's a total experience that a relatively new buyer is unlikely to find anywhere else other than at a Serotta dealer.

We, the Serotta Forum, contribute to this experience in some small way. Recall the posts from lurkers who have said that 'we' had convinced them to investigate and eventually buy a Serotta, some as a first bike. 'We' are part of the Serotta mystique. I know that years ago, as a relative newbie, I was 'persuaded' to buy a Serotta by this forum.

[e-RICHIE]

and don't forget this...
serotta is a commercial brand <i mean that in
a good sense>, and they don't compete as much
with the framebuilding community as much as they
do with the industrial-made chi chi names that most
mall crawlers know: litespeed, colnago, derosa, and
that ilk. almost to a company, all of these names have
either gone through 3-4 different distributors and
importers and/or have had multiple parent companies
along the way, and these inconsistencies have a way
of interupting inventory, marketing, and perception.
whenever there's a new ad agent, rep, or cfo, these
famous cats always take a few steps sidewards
before they're cha-cha-ing forward. serotta's success
is almost certainly also attributable to the fact
that's it's been the same type of company run by the
same type of people through thick and thin. a bump
in the road or two notwithstanding, the company's
longevity is a key reason it's so successful. people
want to buy a piece of that for themselves, and they
do every time an order is placed imho cheers yo. :beer:

[Jeff N.]

Ride One.....You'll See. Jeff N.

[Ahneida Ride]

1.) Excellent LBS !!! Top Notch .... Mt. Cycology, Ludlow Vt.

2.) Great Product.

3.) This open foum.

[William]

1.) Excellent LBS !!! Top Notch .... Mt. Cycology, Ludlow Vt.

2.) Great Product.

3.) This open foum.

True (say hi to Rick ;) ),

It's all an out growth of Ben's expertise, ideals, and commitment to a great innovative product....and his willingness to holdfast to those attributes.


William

[palincss]

i can't figure out what this part meant:

The size-cycle approach is an alternative to the more typical conversation you'd have with a custom builder -- questions like, what do you like/dislike about your current bike, what kind of riding do you want to do, the sort of dialog that is predicated on the rider having a deep of their preferences and requirements based on experience.

A total novice can sit on the size-cycle and have a fitter look at them, measure them, tweak the adjustments and pretty much tell them, "this is what you should have."

The experience part in this equation is all on the side of the fitter.

[e-RICHIE]

<cut>A total novice can sit on the size-cycle and have a fitter look at them, measure them, tweak the adjustments and pretty much tell them, "this is what you should have."



but is a total novice part of the demographic here?

[vaxn8r]

but is a total novice part of the demographic here?
Absolutey. I friend of mine who is an attorney (I know, weird), bought a Serotta Legend a few years ago. I think he has about 60 miles on it.

[e-RICHIE]

Absolutey. I friend of mine who is an attorney (I know, weird), bought a Serotta Legend a few years ago. I think he has about 60 miles on it.



word up yo.

[SoCalSteve]

but is a total novice part of the demographic here?

Maybe one of the reasons Serotta is so successful is because the "total novice" can walk in to a bike shop and get a fitter who knows the right questions to ask and can make the experience not as intimidating.

Just a thought,

Steve

[davids]

ben has his ideas manufactured.
dario, myself, and others are still
"also" the work force. neither way
is better.

btw - serotta's rise isn't a recent phenomenon; ever since
ben showed a white, oval tubed track frame at the int'l
cycle show in ny circa 1976 (the first modern aero frame),
serotta cycles has been at the vanguard. they are one of
the few frame shops that succeeded without going the
industry/commercial route. sure, money does change
hands, but ben's roots as a framebuilder are quite evident
in the innovations we see from serotta cycles today.
despite being "big", he's still from the old neighborhood.
What an insightful, gracious post!

Here's my experience with Serotta: It's almost all about the frames!

While I really appreciate Serotta's confidence and generosity for hosting this amazing forum, it had little to do with my image of the company. Even after riding with Ben last spring, I still thought of Serotta as the staid, old-school American framebuilder. In my mind, the hip ones, the cool ones, the innovative ones were IF, Pegoretti, Seven...

Then I rode the bikes. As some of you know, I probably rode over a dozen different bikes as I shopped for my new bike. As the dust cleared, the only bikes left standing with Serottas. From the Fierte to the Nove, they outshone every other bike I rode.

Is it the tubes? I dunno. It is, without a doubt, the frames.