old super record question

[2wheelwill]

Any old school campy experts out there?

I'm building up a modern-ish steel bike (i.e., 130mm rear spacing) with old Campy Super Record. I'd love to use wheels with old Super Record hubs but those have 126mm spacing.

Do i need a new longer axel to make old hubs 130mm compatible, or could i do this with the original axel. Thanks for any info...

[dana_e]

axle and spacers

or keep it 126

[2wheelwill]

axle and spacers

or keep it 126

keep it 126 and squeeze the stays 4mm??? is that okay for the frame?

[Hindmost]

The 126 axle spacing is already stretched to the breaking point. I used to replace 126 axles every few months. You could space to 130 but it would likely be fragile.

I have used 8 speed hubs with old NR.

[Mark McM]

The 126 axle spacing is already stretched to the breaking point. I used to replace 126 axles every few months. You could space to 130 but it would likely be fragile.

Extending the unsupported end of the axle to make room for an 8spd freewheel would make the axle more prone to bending breakage. But if instead you left the right end of the axle the same (for a 6/7spd freewheel) and added the extra length only to the left end of the axle, they wouldn't be any more fragile than they are now. In addition, adding the extra space to the left end would reduce the dishing, making the wheel stronger overall.

It would be best to replace the axle with a longer one, but some have gotten away with using the original axle. It decreases the amount of axle that seats in the dropouts, so whether that would work on your frame would depend on the design/material of the dropouts.

[Mark McM]

keep it 126 and squeeze the stays 4mm??? is that okay for the frame?

I depends on the frame. Most steel and titanium frames are fine with a little squeezing. Carbon and aluminum frames generally are not.

As a compromise, you could add an additional 2mm of spacers on the left (increasing the spacing to 128mm), and shifting the axle 1mm to the left to re-center it on the hub. This would decrease the amount of axle that extended into the dropouts by 1mm on each side.

[2wheelwill]

I depends on the frame. Most steel and titanium frames are fine with a little squeezing. Carbon and aluminum frames generally are not.

As a compromise, you could add an additional 2mm of spacers on the left (increasing the spacing to 128mm), and shifting the axle 1mm to the left to re-center it on the hub. This would decrease the amount of axle that extended into the dropouts by 1mm on each side.

It's a 2005 Merckx MX-Leader so i guess it can flex some. I like the partial fix to 128mm but hadn't heard about the 126 axles being fragile. So i guess i either risk broken axles or go with non-period correct hubs. Hmmm…

Thanks for the suggestion.

[zmudshark]

Just put a 130 spaced freehub in there. Chances are the old SR will handle it. I have a beauty of a C-Record wheelset w/8s freehub available ;)

[cnighbor1]

I asked ED LITTON (the SF Bay Area frame repair specialist) about spreading and squeezing the rear stays 4mm. He wasn't convinced that was a great idea either way. In spreading he makes sure drops outs are parallel which is curial. Has non parallel dropouts tend to crack over time due to loads from quick releases. they are trying to make drops parallel But he has seen rear and seat stays dimple in the process. Squeezing the stays 4mm would make drop outs not parallel and invite cracking also

[lhuerta]

I depends on the frame. Most steel and titanium frames are fine with a little squeezing. Carbon and aluminum frames generally are not.

As a compromise, you could add an additional 2mm of spacers on the left (increasing the spacing to 128mm), and shifting the axle 1mm to the left to re-center it on the hub. This would decrease the amount of axle that extended into the dropouts by 1mm on each side.

Nope....poor advice all around. Squeezing ur rear triangle also means dropout faces that will not be parallel. Just find a longer axle and add the needed 2mm of spacers on each end....a very simple and easy solution. Lou

[oldpotatoe]

The 126 axle spacing is already stretched to the breaking point. I used to replace 126 axles every few months. You could space to 130 but it would likely be fragile.

I have used 8 speed hubs with old NR.

Not really. Just add more spacers to LH side, leave RH side alone, add some tension to LH spokes (a good thing) and you are done.Lots of 126mm axles are 136mm, 3mm each side is enough.

Also center axle. If the axle is 134mm, new axle. I have run 130mm freewheel hubs for years, don't break axles, I'm .1 offa ton. Making sure the dropouts are parallel also goes a long way toward not breaking axles.

[2wheelwill]

Not really. Just add more spacers to LH side, leave RH side alone, add some tension to LH spokes (a good thing) and you are done.Lots of 126mm axles are 136mm, 3mm each side is enough.

Also center axle. If the axle is 134mm, new axle. I have run 130mm freewheel hubs for years, don't break axles, I'm .1 offa ton. Making sure the dropouts are parallel also goes a long way toward not breaking axles.

Oldpotatoe, if 3mm on each side is minimum, is 5mm on each side optimal? Since it looks like I'm going to go with a new axle might as well get the right size. Thx!

Btw, I guess I'll be posting a WTB for super record wheels. Looking for clinchers if anyone has anything laying around.....thx

[Ralph]

When I did that years ago, I used a 140 MM axle. As I recall.....getting a 140 (or slightly less) axle in threading that would work with the Campy threaded hub parts was the most difficult part. Axles like that were plentiful then, not so sure now.

You only need just a tad of axle to sit in drop outs. You don't really need the original amount. Like above said, a Campy axle in 134 or 136 MM, recentering the hub, with spacers out to 129-130, will probably have enough axle to sit in drop outs with good old Campy skewers holding it. That's route I would try first. Rode many thousands of miles on Campy NR hub with just a tad of axle sitting in drop outs. It's not going anywhere.

[oldpotatoe]

Oldpotatoe, if 3mm on each side is minimum, is 5mm on each side optimal? Since it looks like I'm going to go with a new axle might as well get the right size. Thx!

Btw, I guess I'll be posting a WTB for super record wheels. Looking for clinchers if anyone has anything laying around.....thx

Just make sure the ends of the axle doesn't protrude past the dropout.

For some other of the posts....

Just cramming a 130mm wheel into a 126mm frame or squeezing a 130mm frame down to 126' both are dumb. Ask for broken dropouts or broken axles.

Always good to do the job right. Re-Spacing 126mm hubs, minimizing axle overhang on the RH side or cold setting steel frames is what decent bike shops do.

[oldpotatoe]

When I did that years ago, I used a 140 MM axle. As I recall.....getting a 140 (or slightly less) axle in threading that would work with the Campy threaded hub parts was the most difficult part. Axles like that were plentiful then, not so sure now.

You only need just a tad of axle to sit in drop outs. You don't really need the original amount. Like above said, a Campy axle in 134 or 136 MM, recentering the hub, with spacers out to 129-130, will probably have enough axle to sit in drop outs with good old Campy skewers holding it. That's route I would try first. Rode many thousands of miles on Campy NR hub with just a tad of axle sitting in drop outs. It's not going anywhere.

10 by 26, 141mm, steel axles, still made by Wheels Manufacturing. Easy to find if the retailer isn't being lazy.

[danielpack22@ma]

I believe this is what OP is referring to.

http://wheelsmfg.com/axle-08.html

[Mark McM]

Nope....poor advice all around. Squeezing ur rear triangle also means dropout faces that will not be parallel. Just find a longer axle and add the needed 2mm of spacers on each end....a very simple and easy solution. Lou

You may not like the the suggestion, but it was actually standard operating procedure for many frame manufacturers for several years during the transition from 126mm to 130mm spacing, and is still used today by at least one frame manufacturer.

The 130mm axle spacing standard came about with the introduction of 8spd groups in the early 1990s, when most frames were still made from steel. It was common then to use 8spd wheels on a 126mm frame simply by pulling the stays apart by hand when inserting the wheel. Shimano's even made the locknuts on their 8spd hubs with tapered edges, to make squeezing them into 126mm frame easier.

Because 7spd wheels were still popular during the transition to 8spd, many frame manufacturers purposely made their frame with 128mm spacing between the dropouts (halfway between 126mm and 130mm), so that either 7spd and 8spd wheels could be accommodated. In fact, frames with inbetween axle spacing are still made today, such Surly frames with their 'Gnot-Rite' rear axle spacing of 132.5mm, to fit either 130mm or 135mm axles (see Surly Cross-Check (http://surlybikes.com/uploads/downloads/Cross_Check2010.pdf)).

So, there is plenty of history for the original suggestion.