Giving into 11sp

[don compton]

Ok, call me a Luddite, I was not seeing any advantage to 11sp. for me. I never have needed high gears.
Today, an epiphany, 11-28 Sram 11sp with my 48-34 crank. I have my close lower gears with the 34 and 12,13,14 gears ( talking the flats ) and have my close gears in my 48 ( 11-17 one tooth ) . It works and with my "Wifli" rear derailleur I can have a 11-32 or34 rear cassette for the torture tests. I will probably never use the 48-11, but "Oh well".:)

[aramis]

That's funny I actually use my 50-11 all the time and I'm scared to ditch my 11-28 for a 12-30.

I just want shimano's 11 speed so I can get one more gear on a high range cassette like an 11-32.

[Jack Brunk]

I've been pleasantly surprised with 9 speed gearing. It has everything I need and marketing 2 extra gears is stupid. One dudes opinion.

[jlwdm]

What is not to like with more gears?

Jeff

[bfd]

Ok, call me a Luddite, I was not seeing any advantage to 11sp. for me. I never have needed high gears.
Today, an epiphany, 11-28 Sram 11sp with my 48-34 crank. I have my close lower gears with the 34 and 12,13,14 gears ( talking the flats ) and have my close gears in my 48 ( 11-17 one tooth ) . It works and with my "Wifli" rear derailleur I can have a 11-32 or34 rear cassette for the torture tests. I will probably never use the 48-11, but "Oh well".:)

Haha, my buddy rides DA 10 and uses a 50/34 with 12-25 cassette. He wants to go to 11-28, but finds that the 10spd version doesn't have a 16t cog. His solution, he wants to get DA 9000 because the 11-28 comes with a 16t cog! :eek::butt::confused: Is that crazy or what?!

[pdmtong]

I've been pleasantly surprised with 9 speed gearing. It has everything I need and marketing 2 extra gears is stupid. One dudes opinion.

you are strong and do not need the range.

others are not strong and need the range.

[regularguy412]

Haha, my buddy rides DA 10 and uses a 50/34 with 12-25 cassette. He wants to go to 11-28, but finds that the 10spd version doesn't have a 16t cog. His solution, he wants to get DA 9000 because the 11-28 comes with a 16t cog! :eek::butt::confused: Is that crazy or what?!

Gotta have the 16.

At least, I do. Sure would hate to have to go DA 9000 just to get it, tho.

Mike in AR:beer:

[soulspinner]

What is not to like with more gears?

Jeff

Besides incompatibility?

[christian]

Haha, my buddy rides DA 10 and uses a 50/34 with 12-25 cassette. He wants to go to 11-28, but finds that the 10spd version doesn't have a 16t cog. His solution, he wants to get DA 9000 because the 11-28 comes with a 16t cog! :eek::butt::confused: Is that crazy or what?!

Um, or what? I find a 15-17 step really unpleasant. It's by far the biggest gap in any cassette it appears, and unlike 2-3 tooth steps on the high end, it's right in the middle of the cruising range, not when bailing to an easy gear. In fact, I don't like a two-tooth gap between my 17 and 19 either, so I pretty much exclusively run 13-26 Campagnolo, which includes an 18.

Princess and the pea and all that, but I still think a 53/39 and a 13-26 is the nicest gearing.

I'm with your buddy.

[Salsa_Lover]

Princess and the pea and all that, but I still think a 53/39 and a 13-26 is the nicest gearing.

I'm with your buddy.

Total agree,

the 10 speed 13-29 should have received a 18 instead of a 12 for the 11speed version.

probably the 13-26 should also only received a 12 instead of becoming the 11speed 12-27 without the 18 like it is now.

[Ralph]

So much has to do with where you ride, how strong you are, how fast down hill you want to be able to pedal, and what you use for chainrings.

Personally, I like a straight block to 19 teeth, then jump to 21 OK. Am willing to give up the smallest cog to get that. If I lived in mountains, probably might prefer to feel more change between gears. And going down hill real fast scares me. Just so many variables. 10 still works for me, but if buying a new group, would go 11. A 34-48 with Cassette starting with 12 w/b plenty for me. 4-1 plenty top gear for me, and, with 11, could have a straight block a long way.

[buddybikes]

I run a 12-28 11 speed, I am in love...

[AngryScientist]

maybe it's because i ride lots of my yearly miles on a fixed gear bike, but big jumps in gearing dont bother me at all. i'm sure i take a pretty big power and efficiency hit, but i dont have any real problem adapting my cadence to the gear i'm in, within reason. i think unless your riding right on the edge of your own fitness and power, the gearing thing (with regard to gaps) is largely mental.

[Gummee]

i think unless your riding right on the edge of your own fitness and power, the gearing thing (with regard to gaps) is largely mental.Pretty much everything in cycling is largely mental. :nod

For JRA I thought 7sp cassettes had the right gear spacing. Nice jumps between gears.

Till someone figures out a way to reliably and cheaply make 10sp freehub bodies work with 11sp cogsets, I'm out. I've got a dozen sets (or so) of 8/9/10 wheels that'll need to be 'upgraded.' ...and its hard to upgrade from D/A!

M

[ultraman6970]

That's when you get rid off shimmy and welcome campagnolo :P

[fuzzalow]

As mentioned in other posts, having the perfect cog only matters in racing.

I'll use whatever I have and whether it is the latest group set or not doesn't mean a thing. Sure, having more closely spaced cogs is nice but having the ease of cadence and fluidity of stroke from 80-95 rpm is a good substitute for missing a cog. But make no mistake, I belly-up to the bar for whatever whiz-bang improvement Campagnolo can toss my way.

Power, fitness & form absolves a multitude of sins. I don't often have all three. When that happens, I just turn the gear over a little slower.

[echelon_john]

Building my next road bike with 8sp and these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GRIP-SHIFT-CX-DT-shimano-8-SPEED-tt-triathlon-aero-flat-bar-TWIST-SHIFTERS-/151148272624?pt=US_Shifters&hash=item2331239bf0

[jpw]

ok, but 11 speed Shimano or 11 speed Campagnolo?

[tv_vt]

9 speed 50-34 and 11-28 or 12-27 works for me. Or 11-32 for steeper multi-gap rides. Having multiple bikes holds back upgrading of some things.

[FlashUNC]

Campy 11 was worth the upgrade for the new hood shape alone. So comfortable...

[HugoBear]

Campy 11 was worth the upgrade for the new hood shape alone. So comfortable...

I am pretty new to campy and otherwise running DA 7800 on two other bikes. No doubt, the hoods on the campy is waaaay more comfortable. I love the feel of them.

[ultraman6970]

+1 on this with flash

This thread can bring unknown riders bad customs issues to the table :P Non spinners, guys that can't climb the stairs that don't train, overweight guys that wonder why can't climb... etc etc. :D

[summilux]

I'm with AS on this one. 11 speed, Meh. I have rides with Campy 9,10 and 11 and I don't really care. The top and bottom matter, but I never notice the steps in between. Maybe 'cos I commute on fixed or 'cos my first road bike had a 5-speed freewheel. I don't even notice the Ergo shape.

[plattyjo]

Campy 11 was worth the upgrade for the new hood shape alone. So comfortable...

Oh yes, the Campy 11 "sperm whale heads" are indeed way more comfortable! My road bike still has the old nubs from the 10 gruppo and is the one thing that's making me think I should upgrade, too.

[FlashUNC]

Oh yes, the Campy 11 "sperm whale heads" are indeed way more comfortable! My road bike still has the old nubs from the 10 gruppo and is the one thing that's making me think I should upgrade, too.

They are, without a doubt, the ugliest levers I've ever seen. But I don't care.

Stupidly comfortable and functional.

[jlwdm]

Besides incompatibility?

?????

3 bikes with Campagnolo 11. Super compatible.

Jeff

[oldpotatoe]

They are, without a doubt, the ugliest levers I've ever seen. But I don't care.

Stupidly comfortable and functional.

not even close..or

[plattyjo]

Ooh, those are pretty fugly. At least the sperm whales have those swirly grooves in them!

[CircuitHero]

53-39 and 10spd 11-23 here. Attack all the hills!

[palincss]

What is not to like with more gears?

Jeff

If those extra gears come at the price of greatly reduced sprocket and chain wear and dramatically higher prices for cassettes, chains and chain tools, and if they provide nothing but unusably high gears or gears that are spaced so close at the bottom end that you are constantly shifting twice because a single downshift feels like piddling nothing, then there can be plenty to not like about more gears.

[christian]

Total agree,

the 10 speed 13-29 should have received a 18 instead of a 12 for the 11speed version.

probably the 13-26 should also only received a 12 instead of becoming the 11speed 12-27 without the 18 like it is now.

We are gearing best friends! I won't move to 11 mostly because of the cost, but also because the only 11-speed cassette that has an 18 is 12-25. The 10-speed 13-26 actually gives me BETTER gearing, in so far as it has a marginally lower low gear and 107.5 gear inches is high enough for me in the riding I do. This assumes 53/39.

A 50-34 with an 11-speed 12-25 would give good gearing it appears, but your low 70s gear-inch gears will be cross-chainy. Fine for fast group riding where you'll be above that. Not great for B riders.

At the end of the day, this just reinforces... horses for courses!

[FlashUNC]

At the end of the day, this just reinforces... horses for courses!

Ain't that the truth. Once saw a buddy's TT bike who lives in Florida. Had a 54 big ring and a 52 small ring. Yanno, for the hills...

[bfd]

Oh yes, the Campy 11 "sperm whale heads" are indeed way more comfortable! My road bike still has the old nubs from the 10 gruppo and is the one thing that's making me think I should upgrade, too.

Interesting term - sperm whale head! I always referred to the latest 3rd gen Campy ergo shifters as "gumby hoods!"

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/images/items/900/CPG/CPG0125/PAI.jpg

http://www.happehtheory.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Gumby_Head-CategoryPicture.jpg


:eek::banana::butt::confused:

[enr1co]

Ooh, those are pretty fugly. At least the sperm whales have those swirly grooves in them!

Definitely fugly but the functionality of more grip area/additional hand position is something I would find useful.

As for making the switch to 11 sp Campy a few years back, I did it more for preference of the hood and lever shape and ergonomics (from the 10 sp ergo) rather than to split hairs on rear cog selection.

[TimD]

If those extra gears come at the price of greatly reduced sprocket and chain wear and dramatically higher prices for cassettes, chains and chain tools, and if they provide nothing but unusably high gears or gears that are spaced so close at the bottom end that you are constantly shifting twice because a single downshift feels like piddling nothing, then there can be plenty to not like about more gears.

+11. Or maybe +9 :)

[plattyjo]

Gumby hoods - that's a pretty good description too, now that I see the accompanying visual. :)

[thirdgenbird]

The 11spd campy levers are not as pretty as the ones before them, but I still find them better look than anything Shimano has created. Most of theirs are too big, look cheap (plastic name plates), or look unfinished on the inside.

[jbay]

The OP pondered using the SRAM 11-28 11-speed cassette. I have used one extensively this season and find that I really notice the gap between the 19 and 22T sprockets (the fourth and third largest, respectively) when in the big 'ring (a 50T, in my case). That's a 15% difference, right in the cruising gears (60-70"). I didn't think I would find myself writing that about an 11-speed cassette! And this from a guy:

- who rides fixed a lot
- who has a lifetime supply of Uniglide sprockets
- who has a bunch of wheels with 7-speed cassette bodies
- who enjoys using Shimano "juvenile" 10-speed cassettes (16-27 and 14-25) during the winter

I naïvely thought that an 11-speed cassette couldn't avoid filling every possible gearing need (okay, that was tongue in cheek)! Even SRAM's 11-32 11x cassette offers zero real-world improvement on their existing 12-32 10x cassette. They just tack on an 11T instead of filling in the 16T gap. What a missed opportunity! Professionals may use their 11T in anger but the rest of us would just like some real benefit if we are to embrace something that makes our existing wheels obsolete.

-- John

[jlwdm]

If those extra gears come at the price of greatly reduced sprocket and chain wear and dramatically higher prices for cassettes, chains and chain tools, and if they provide nothing but unusably high gears or gears that are spaced so close at the bottom end that you are constantly shifting twice because a single downshift feels like piddling nothing, then there can be plenty to not like about more gears.


Really???

I am not worried about the cost, if there really is any extra cost. Minimal cost for the cost of cycling. I have never had a problem with the spacing - lots of choices of cassettes. If riders buy the wrong spacing that is their mistake.

Jeff

[christian]

Ultegra kiddie kassettes (tm) are the best thing out there.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

Haha, my buddy rides DA 10 and uses a 50/34 with 12-25 cassette. He wants to go to 11-28, but finds that the 10spd version doesn't have a 16t cog. His solution, he wants to get DA 9000 because the 11-28 comes with a 16t cog! :eek::butt::confused: Is that crazy or what?!

I've done less to get something new :rolleyes:.

[rustychisel]

maybe it's because i ride lots of my yearly miles on a fixed gear bike, but big jumps in gearing dont bother me at all. i'm sure i take a pretty big power and efficiency hit, but i dont have any real problem adapting my cadence to the gear i'm in, within reason. i think unless your riding right on the edge of your own fitness and power, the gearing thing (with regard to gaps) is largely mental.


Pretty much this.

I don't even know what cogs I've got: err a 12 on the top and a 25 or 26 on the bottom. In between it's whatever Mr Campagnolo decided for 10 speed.

I seem to recall that 9 to 10 then 11 was going to sort out those mid range gear jumps and people wouldn't need to stay up all night counting teeth, they'd have a more effective spread of gears and there'd be plenty for everyone's tastes or requirements.

Instead, apparently, there's one or two more cogs to count and fret about.

[oddsaabs]

So I've got an entirely different motivation to go to 11 speed; simplicity.

This fall I've been messing around with a 1x11 geared road bike with surprisingly good results. Turns out that an 11/32 cassette with a 38t chainring provides an old guy like me with plenty of gearing for just about everything I encounter here in the hills of central NY. The bottom gear is lower than my customary 34/25, and the top gear is plenty big for tailwind pacelines. The best part is I no longer need to worry about a front derailleur or making those double shifts as the hill gets steeper.

When you think about it, a 1x11 provides way more gear options that many of us grew up with (yes, I started racing when we still used 5 speed straight blocks), and nearly as many as most modern double chainring systems. By the time you eliminate the unusable cross-chained gears and all the duplicate gears, even a 2x10 speed system only gives 14 usable gears. The numbers are obviously even lower for 9.8. and 7 speed systems.

The jury is still out whether I'll ride the 1x11 extensively next year, but right now it's looking pretty inviting.

[saab2000]

Ultegra kiddie kassettes (tm) are the best thing out there.

They are not D/A duplicates though. They come with 11–tooth cogs, which are useless in my world.

Edit: there is a 12-25 Ultegra.... Useful for most applications.

[christian]

I'm talking about the Ultegra Junior gearing. 14-23 straight block, 14-25, etc. Those are nice cassettes. Give up a little on the high end but very nice tight gearing in the midrange.

[don compton]

I wish any of the big three would offer a 13-32 11 spd. Of course, its a pipe dream.:butt:

[bfd]

I wish any of the big three would offer a 13-32 11 spd. Of course, its a pipe dream.:butt:

Not one of the "big 3," but IRD offers an 11-30 or 12-30 11 speed cassette. It is for Campy splined hubs, but I'm sure they're working on 11 speed cassettes for Shimano/Sram. For more check it out:

http://www.interlocracing.com/cassettes_steel.html

And the 12-30 cassette has a 16t cog too! :banana::eek::butt::mad:

[Ralph]

For riding in my local area, Am currently using a 39-52 and Campy Centaur 14-23. Can pedal the 52-14 to about 28 MPH with a tail wind. Sometimes I wish for more on a down hill, but not often. Enough for me, and group I ride with, maybe not for some of you. On this bike I use Campy 10 power TQ shifters, and can sweep 3 rear cogs up at a time, so the 14-23 works fine for around my local mostly level area.

When I go 11 speed, and have to use a cassette starting with 12, will look for a crankset with 48 big ring....which is same top gear as a 52/13.....enough for me where I ride.

[nelsonk]

Sram offers an 11-32 11 spd cassette that would work with any of the big three.

[oldpotatoe]

Sram offers an 11-32 11 spd cassette that would work with any of the big three.

As does shimano, 6800, about $100....

[PaMtbRider]

Sram offers an 11-32 11 spd cassette that would work with any of the big three.

Will it work with a campy 11 speed rear derailleur?

[FlashUNC]

Will it work with a campy 11 speed rear derailleur?

Campy RD can accept up to 29 teeth if I remember correctly.

[PaMtbRider]

Campy RD can accept up to 29 teeth if I remember correctly.

Yes, "technically" that is what Campy says they can accept. Just wondering if anyone has had success with trying a 32T.

[don compton]

Yes, "technically" that is what Campy says they can accept. Just wondering if anyone has had success with trying a 32T.
I wonder if an 11-32 would work an Athena triple 11sp. rear der? I have read that 11sp Sram and Shimano Cassettes will work with Campy 11sp drivetrain( provided they are fitted on a Sram -Shimano 11sp. compatible hub).

[Ralph]

The Campy 11 speed 12-29 cassette s/b enough gear for about anything, with a 30 tooth triple ring. If not, just put on a 28 TA ring. I have a 12-30 10's Campy cassette that works with a 30-42-52 triple with med cage rear derailleur. Works fine if little to little is slack. Triple long cage RD would be perfect. If a double, medium cage would handle 32 just fine, probably more. Don't see a med cage listed with 11's. New version short cage campy RD will work with any Campy cassette as a double.

[cmg]

the sram hydraulic hoods remind me of the headress of a planet of the apes character.

[Ahneida Ride]

TA Carmina up front 48/36/22 rings

13 - 29 Cassette in rear ....

no incentive for 11 speed

[malbecman]

Hilarious!!!!! :banana:

the sram hydraulic hoods remind me of the headress of a planet of the apes character.

[PaMtbRider]

What I would like to be able to do is use 46 /36 chainrings and an 11-32 cassette with campy.

[Johnny P]

i wish any of the big three would offer a 13-32 11 spd. Of course, its a pipe dream.:butt:

+1

[oldpotatoe]

What I would like to be able to do is use 46 /36 chainrings and an 11-32 cassette with campy.

46/34 and 12-30(12-29/11s) Campagnolo?

[mistermo]

What I would like to be able to do is use 46 /36 chainrings and an 11-32 cassette with campy.

I do this, sort of. 10 speed. Up front is a SRAM Force crankset with 46/36 Rotor Q rings. In back is a SRAM wifli rear derailleur on SRAM 11-32 cassette. Shifters are Campagolo 10s Centaur new shape. As someone posted earlier, I'd likely prefer a 12-32, but the system works fine on my gravel grinder steed.

[PaMtbRider]

46/34 and 12-30(12-29/11s) Campagnolo?

What is the best way to end up with a 46 / 34 campy crankset? Start with a CX11 PowerTorque 46 /36 and replace the 36 ring, or use an UltraTorque 50 / 34 and replace the 50. Closest rings I have found so far are TA Nerius 11 speed, but they only offer a 48 outer ring.

[oldpotatoe]

What is the best way to end up with a 46 / 34 campy crankset? Start with a CX11 PowerTorque 46 /36 and replace the 36 ring, or use an UltraTorque 50 / 34 and replace the 50. Closest rings I have found so far are TA Nerius 11 speed, but they only offer a 48 outer ring.

Probably number one since a small ring is cheaper than a large ring...in the 110/112 Campagnolo BCD.

TA good choice and the 10s/11s isn't n issue.

Powertorque crank is nice. I have one on my Merckx.

[Ralph]

Is there any reason not to use a Campy Power TQ cross crank on a road bike? Hi friction seals, stuff like that?

[TPetsch]

I've been contemplating the same move, going from 10 to 11 speed.

Cassette -for me- would be perfect with one more higher gear. I run a 12-23 and would really appreciate a 12-25.

This post is moving me closer to making the move, thanks for sharing :)

[jerrym]

I'm an older guy, and started out with only 10 total speeds and 5 cogs in the rear. At the time I thought it was great: 8 useable gears! Now with 11 in the rear and 20 useable gears, I still think it is great! Resisting 11 speeds doesn't make sense, as sooner or later you are going to have parts or compatibility problems, and the point isn't the highest and lowest gear anyway - it is having more choices in between.

[Gummee]

For those that are on the fence: the ENTIRE reason I'm swapping all 5 road-based bikes to S11 was that front derailleur.

Mmmmm nice.

Oh wait! I can't convince you to go 11! I still need to sell off 4-5 pairs of 8/9/10 wheels!

Wait till you buy my wheels (post coming in the classifieds soon) THEN go S11

M

[Ahneida Ride]

What is not to like with more gears?

Jeff

Honest question, Easy answer ....

I Love my 2000 Campy Record 10sp.
With a TA crank I have 20-105 gear inches.
Is a 11 speed really an upgrade?

This reason NOT to change is frns. I don't want to spend frns to
upgrade when what I currently have works well.

Else 11 is great ...

Uh ..... does 11 speed work with a TA Carmina Crank ?
If not, another reason not to change.

[oldpotatoe]

Honest question, Easy answer ....

I Love my 2000 Campy Record 10sp.
With a TA crank I have 20-105 gear inches.
Is a 11 speed really an upgrade?

This reason NOT to change is frns. I don't want to spend frns to
upgrade when what I currently have works well.

Else 11 is great ...

Uh ..... does 11 speed work with a TA Carmina Crank ?
If not, another reason not to change.

You could do the same thing with 9s, assuming you have a 13-29 10s cogset. Use a 13-28 9s cogset.

[shovelhd]

I had no problem selling my 10 speed stuff. It all went very quickly. All I have left is the Di2 gearset and spares.

[don compton]

As an old fart, I finally came to the reality, that I do not need high gears. I am riding with my friends on our Tuesday morning ride around the Wallace, Valley
Springs of California, and I realized that in the big ring, I nevered shifted into the 12 cog. That's it, 10sp, 48-34 crank, 13-29 cassette. For every ride, everyday.:hello:

[palincss]

So, tell me again, in that case, what do you win by going to 11 speed? Do they have 11s cassettes that begin with 13?

[Kirk Pacenti]

For those who are blissfully content with their 8/9/10spd drivetrians, here's a great opportunity (https://www.facebook.com/393898233962299/photos/a.483018871716901.116207.393898233962299/859173817434736/?type=1) to upgrade your wheels for very few $$$.

Cheers,
KP

[dzxc]

I'm running a 1x10 on my cx setup and have been thinking about going to 11spd so I can have that extra range taken away from the removal of a front chainring.

However, the cost is ridiculous. New tubular race wheel, new clincher training wheel, rear derailleur, cassette, chain, shifter. Way too expensive.

[Rada]

For those who are blissfully content with their 8/9/10spd drivetrians, here's a great opportunity (https://www.facebook.com/393898233962299/photos/a.483018871716901.116207.393898233962299/859173817434736/?type=1) to upgrade your wheels for very few $$$.

Cheers,
KP

Hey Kirk those are awesome looking wheels. Stupid question, is the Hadley freehub Shimano compatible?

[jamesutiopia]

What I would like to be able to do is use 46 /36 chainrings and an 11-32 cassette with campy.

Is this thread alive again?

Can't speak to that exact combination, but I do love 44/28 + 11-28t 11s (SRAM 11s cassette with a 16t cog) with Campy shifters/derailleurs for long road rides in the bay area

[Kirk Pacenti]

Hey Kirk those are awesome looking wheels. Stupid question, is the Hadley freehub Shimano compatible?

Rada,

Yes, the freehub body is a standard Shimano 8/9/10 spd design, manufactured by Hadley. You'll have no problem running any 8/9/10 spd Shimano or SRAM compatible components. :hello:

Cheers,
KP