Colnago Experts: Please Teach me about the C40.

[thp]

Hello Experts,

I've decided to take the plunge and find myself a C40.
If anyone can help educate me on the different versions, pros and cons, etc and comparisons to other Colnago Models that would help a lot.

I'm currently lucky enough to have a Dream HP (50s), so getting a dream bike C40 would be the natural progression I think.


Salso_Lover had a great summary from another thread that I'll re-post here.
IMHO, it depends on what you are searching in a Colnago.

If you set aside the "constant" elements one looks for on a high end Colnago, like the Classic Italian racing geometry, beauty of finishes, quality of craftsmanship, history, romanticism linked to the brand...

All those are "shared characteristics". Then you are left with specific frame ride quality personalities.

Again IMHO the grail C40, the most balanced in terms of comfort/performance is the 02-03 C40 B-Stay with a carbon Star Fork

If you want a full comfort, with a softer rear, go for a 98-2001 non B-Stay, C40 with a carbon Star fork.

If you want rear end comfort but a stiffer, more responsive front, get an early 95-97 C40 with a Precisa steel fork.

You want an stiffer rear? Get a later 2004-2005 C40 with HP stays.

But, and that's my point, if you want more stiffness and performance then I would go for a C50, and the better and stiffer is the later C50 with the HM carbon and C75 fork or even more the Extreme Power or EPS

Get my point?

Also the C40 HPs came mostly in NL paint schemes that were not the best you could get... The AD and LX are prettier for me.

That said, I talk from my experience with middle sized C40s on the 54-57 range, probably as wallymann says on bigger frames that could be different.

Thanks for the help and maybe any leads? haha.

[texbike]

Honestly, Salsa's post pretty much covers it. There is a bit of personal opinion interjected in the write up and maybe a bit of debate on the exact years of the changes, but overall it sums it up.

The C40 is a great bike and I think that any of the generations would be a good choice. Over the years, I've heard it voiced that the pre-Bstay bikes were the smoothest riding, the HP stay bikes were the most developed, and the Bstay was kinda in the middle. I've had a HP and a couple of Bstays. They've all been among the best bikes that I've had. So, I really think that any of them would be fine. Find one in your size and that has a paint scheme that speaks to you.

What size do you ride?

Texbike

[Idris Icabod]

R and A has some NOS Colnago C50 if you are lucky enough to require that size. Never had a C40 but had a C50 and a C59. Prefer the C50 to the C59, so given that logic the C40 must be even better!

[wallymann]

interesting...what is it about the C50 that you like or C59 that you dont?

Never had a C40 but had a C50 and a C59. Prefer the C50 to the C59, so given that logic the C40 must be even better!

[thp]

Honestly, Salsa's post pretty much covers it. There is a bit of personal opinion interjected in the write up and maybe a bit of debate on the exact years of the changes, but overall it sums it up.

The C40 is a great bike and I think that any of the generations would be a good choice. Over the years, I've heard it voiced that the pre-Bstay bikes were the smoothest riding, the HP stay bikes were the most developed, and the Bstay was kinda in the middle. I've had a HP and a couple of Bstays. They've all been among the best bikes that I've had. So, I really think that any of them would be fine. Find one in your size and that has a paint scheme that speaks to you.

What size do you ride?

Texbike

I ride a 50 Sloping on the Dream. Normalish Torso/arms etc on a 5'7" frame with short legs.... (29" inseam!)

R and A has some NOS Colnago C50 if you are lucky enough to require that size. Never had a C40 but had a C50 and a C59. Prefer the C50 to the C59, so given that logic the C40 must be even better!

NOS C50 will be quite a bit over budget. Hoping to find a well loved and taken cared of used C40 that's had it's kinks worked out. :-D

[Salsa_Lover]

50 sloping is equivalent to a 54cm traditional.

I recently sold one of the first generation C40s on that size, beautiful first generation C40 with a precisa fork, the ride feel was great, just too small for me.

How do your Dream fit you? small ? big ? ( how long is your stem, seatpost height and handlebar height ? , post a pic)

it's true as texbike says, my personal opinion and preference is interjected in what I wrote and with a reason.

On my search for the perfect feel/fit/purpose I went though many brands ( Trek, Bianchi, Ridley Felt etc.) and I've had many Colnagos

58cm C40 MK1 with star fork
55cm C40 B-Stay, Extreme C
57cm C40 HP ( MK3 )
54cm C40 MK1 with precisa fork, Extreme Power
56cm C50 MK2, Master, C40 B-Stay

I found the perfect fit on the 56cm, and I only keep now these 3 bikes because the 3 have paradoxally similar but different and complementary characteristics.

- The C50 is my stiffer bike, setup with carbon tubulars ( Hyperon and Bora ), standard gearing for more "sportive" rides
- The C40 Bstay is my comfort bike, setup on clinchers, semicompact gearing for longer and more relaxed rides.
- The Master is just beautiful, a different feel but also weight range, setup on Standard gearing, alternatively, clinchers, Cosmic aero or alloy tubulars, for days I just want to enjoy the ride. Top level old school racing bike

I bough my 3 definitive Colnagos full new BTW, they did cost nice coin, but I went for it after I was sure that was the right size and setup for me.

I indeed advice you to try to find them and ride them and experiment with fit before you invest on the right Colnago.

They can be hard to find, just to try on, and even used they have a high price, but also they keep their value very well, so I think if you buy a used one in good condition you can resell them without losing much money if they don't fit.

After you found the perfect fit and feel, starts the quest for the perfect NOS one ;)

[thp]

Dream HP in 50s. Generally comfy and no pains after 40 mile rides. Currently setup for SS for winter.....

Saddle: 70cm from BB @ 30mm setback.
Stem: 90mm @ -7d
Bar: 85 reach, 130 drop.

Frame feels a tad big sometimes.
I've ridden my friends 52 Traditional on a 100mm stem and it felt a little small, same with a 48s.

[Salsa_Lover]

Seems you need a 53

today can be your lucky day, look at the Classifieds section ;)

FS:NOS Colnago C40 B-Stay 53cm (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=1448753#post1448753)

[wallymann]

I only keep now these 3 bikes because the 3 have paradoxally similar but different and complementary characteristics.

- The C50 is my stiffer bike, setup with carbon tubulars ( Hyperon and Bora ), standard gearing for more "sportive" rides
- The C40 Bstay is my comfort bike, setup on clinchers, semicompact gearing for longer and more relaxed rides.
- The Master is just beautiful, a different feel but also weight range, setup on Standard gearing, alternatively, clinchers, Cosmic aero or alloy tubulars, for days I just want to enjoy the ride. Top level old school racing bike




great minds think alike: ;) :beer:

https://scontent-b-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/249002_10200750340672764_712417773_n.jpg
https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/971577_10200689524152389_272822968_n.jpg
http://majortaylorcycling.org/events/2013_mid-ohio-century/DSC07657_1.jpg (http://majortaylorcycling.org/bikes/walter.html)

[texbike]

http://majortaylorcycling.org/events/2013_mid-ohio-century/DSC07657_1.jpg[/URL]

Wow! That is a BEAUTIFUL Master! I love Colnagos.... :)

Texbike

[Salsa_Lover]

Wow! That is a BEAUTIFUL Master! I love Colnagos.... :)

Texbike

with matching kit to boot ! :banana:

BTW Sidi and Santini are also always my choice ;)

[thp]

Been learning and reading what I can find.

Mk2. Mk3. are essentially just the HP chainstays, but no changes in forks.

Critical Items to keep track of are:
Seatpost are 28mm, so be careful and use a shim with 27.2mm.
Steerer is 1", not 1 1/8". I haven't been able to find 1" stems easily, do people just use a shim?
Bottom Brackets are Italian threaded.

Were there any areas prone to failure or know issues with the C40 to look out for?

[wallymann]

Mk2. Mk3. are essentially just the HP chainstays, but no changes in forks.

RE: forks, correct. mk2 changed to B-stay seatstay design. mk3 changed to HP-stay chainstays.

Seatpost are 28mm, so be away and use a shim with 27.2mm.

shims to make this work are mickey-mouse -- they're paper thin, look for a proper 28.0mm seatpin. they can be found and it's not too tough.

Steerer is 1", not 1 1/8". I haven't been able to find 1" stems easily, do people just use a shim?

yep, they havent made top-shelf 1" threadless stems in years, like since +10 years ago! get the best kit you can in 1-1/8" and run a shim.

Were there any areas prone to failure or know issues with the C40 to look out for?

none i'm aware of (especially the mk2/3), the C40 is a robust, mature, and proven design -- GOOD LUCK!

[krhea]

+1 Wally

[texbike]

Were there any areas prone to failure or know issues with the C40 to look out for?

The primary issues that I've heard about over the years on the bikes were the seatstays cracking on the pre-BStay bikes, badly corroded aluminum BB shell inserts (pre-HP), and delamination of the rear drop-outs from the stays. However, these issues seem to be rare. As Wallyman pointed out, the bikes are a pretty stout design.

Texbike

[thp]

Been trying to learn more about the BB corrosion/delamination.
Which years were affected?
Do the 2002-2003 B-Stay Non-HP have the issues?

Best I could figure out.
C40 B-Stay - Aluminum BB
C40 HP - Titanium BB

Haven't read about any fake C40/C50/C59 so hopefully it's not an issue like the fake EPS.

[Nags&Ducs]

Been trying to learn more about the BB corrosion/delamination.
Which years were affected?
Do the 2002-2003 B-Stay Non-HP have the issues?

Best I could figure out.
C40 B-Stay - Aluminum BB
C40 HP - Titanium BB

Haven't read about any fake C40/C50/C59 so hopefully it's not an issue like the fake EPS.

I think that's not so easy. Some B-stay C40s have Ti BBs, others don't. You have to look at the shell. If it's dull gray, and has the "bent tabs" over the face of the BB, then it's Ti. When I searched for my C40, I sought out one with a Ti BB. Luckily, I ended up with one.

[Salsa_Lover]

The most well known defect was the dropouts or alu BB galvanic corrosion.

The cases are rare, but they did exist as you can find somewhere on the net.

Being it on the bonded end points where there is a mix of materials ( carbon, alloy and maybe steel hub axels or BBs) it is possible that is due mostly to an unfortunate mix of materials combined with some corrosive agent, maybe salt or dirty rain water from the floor.

Take into consideration that some old c40s were bought used by someone who had already a C50 or EPS, to be employed as a bad weather bike, so probably there is the cause of the problem

[wallymann]

for anyone else wanting to learn more about the C40: the C40 family tree (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=1688694&postcount=1)

[Nags&Ducs]

for anyone else wanting to learn more about the C40: the C40 family tree (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=1688694&postcount=1)

Nice work Wallyman! For some reason, I was looking up posts on C40s and saw this.

And thanks for dredging up an old thread so I didn't have to! ;)

[jischr]

I have a Dream in AD10 paint and a C-40 in naked carbon. The Dream has an all aluminum frame and Flash fork. The C40 has B-Stay and Star fork. The C-40 is a cm smaller than the Dream, both were listed as 54 on Craigs and eBay. Maybe one Colnago of any type gets sold annually in my local market. When I got the Dream I thought, and still think, it was noticeably smoother than my steel Gitane Super Corsa which had good steel in it. The first ride with the Dream hooked me on Colnagos. I’ve had the Dream for 4 years and the C-40 for 4 months.

Not being a racer I can’t speak to high speed stuff other than downhill. The Dream and C-40 are both good up to 48 mph which is the fastest I’ve done. They corner the same to me, but I don't do crits around the town square. At 5 to 25 mph on smooth roads the C-40 dampens out almost everything. The Dream will pass on feedback from the road. As the road gets rougher so does the Dream. I can’t tell any difference between the Flash and Star forks. But the aluminum rear triangle on the Dream passes the rear wheel impacts right up the seat post, the C-40 passes maybe 40% of it. Both bikes have early Neutron wheels and Pro 4 tyres so I’d say it’s the frame characteristics. The C-40 is noticeably lighter. Given my tonnage the bike’s weight shouldn’t make a difference when ‘sprinting’ around slower riders or from a stop sign, but I like to think it accelerates better than the Dream. Nearly as important as the ride quality, the AD10 paint on the Dream gets commented on half the time I go riding on it. The PR00 naked carbon has yet to be commented on. If I could justify it, I’d repaint the C-40. A C-40 in AD10 tres cool. :banana:

I’ve often wondered if a B-Stay Dream would eliminate the rear wheel kick or if it would still fall short of the C-40. If you can find a C-40 to borrow for 10 minutes it will likely tell you if the ride quality is worth the change. Some day let us know how they compare.