I think I saw possibly the last Ottrott ever built

[Bruce K]

At our coffee stop today there was a fairly new Ottrott, well decked out, Di2 with internal battery mount, nice wheels, etc.

I spoke with the guy who owned it and he said he purchased it from Signature Cycles in New York and that the frame had been started while Ben was still at Serotta and finished after his "departure".

Naked carbon with a sort of "French Blue" solid decal.

Nice looking bike.

Pictures shortly,

BK

[Pete Mckeon]

is a nice ride…..:bike:

[jpw]

At our coffee stop today there was a fairly new Ottrott, well decked out, Di2 with internal battery mount, nice wheels, etc.

I spoke with the guy who owned it and he said he purchased it from Signature Cycles in New York and that the frame had been started while Ben was still at Serotta and finished after his "departure".

Naked carbon with a sort of "French Blue" solid decal.

Nice looking bike.

Pictures shortly,

BK

this one?

(it takes a moment to resolve)

http://www.signaturecycles.com/#s=0&mi=21&pt=1&pi=10000&p=0&a=0&at=0

[bloody sunday]

this one?

(it takes a moment to resolve)

http://www.signaturecycles.com/#s=0&mi=21&pt=1&pi=10000&p=0&a=0&at=0

what's with all the saddles pointed downward?

[Bruce K]

Not seeing it

Just a Parlee and a Guru

BK

[jpw]

Not seeing it

Just a Parlee and a Guru

BK

works here.

Dura Ace Di2, Meilenstein wheels, Enve post and stem, with blue bar tape?

was his name Arthur?

[Bruce K]

Didn't catch his name

Build sounds right except it had black bar tape

Will post when I get home

BK

[beeatnik]

Does Signature post every build?

I guess it's fitting that the "last" Ottrott looks like the bikes that many believe contributed to the demise of the late Serotta.

Faster-B-Wards, indeed.

[mistermo]

I guess it's fitting that the "last" Ottrott looks like the bikes that many believe contributed to the demise of the late Serotta.



+1. That's a rather ridiculous bike, but to each his own. Guy shoulda' bought a Rivendell, instead of a Ferrari set up like an SUV.

[SignatureJustin]

That is Arthur's bike, he is an amazing guy.

Arthur rides more than most any of us. He has had his bike for about 8 weeks and has 2100 miles on it. He joins us each year on our trip to Majorca. Great guy rides a ton and loves his new bike.

I hope he has many, many great years on it.

[slidey]

+1

I'm quite forgiving/encouraging of people who want to modify their bikes with strange (to me) fits which might enable them to ride, but I can't imagine a single good reason for this down-turned nose phenomenon.

what's with all the saddles pointed downward?

[palincss]

+1. That's a rather ridiculous bike, but to each his own. Guy shoulda' bought a Rivendell, instead of a Ferrari set up like an SUV.

Did you notice, the bike is posed with the front wheel higher than the rear wheel, so that the bike is pointed uphill?

Of course, sloping top tubes always look ungainly; integrated brake/shift levers do make bikes look a bit ridiculous in photographs, what with those massive lever bodies sticking out; and the shape of the bars has none of the grace of classic bends, which is made more conspicuous by the bright blue bar wrap (a more traditional black wrap would have toned the look down considerably); and those rims and spokes do look rather horrid, being so very thick and ungainly.

Is that what you meant by your SUV allusion? I have to ask, because this bike looks absolutely nothing like a Rivendell (or a Ferrari, for that matter).

[happycampyer]

Here's a news flash—with Serotta out of the way, I doubt that Rivendell is going to be flooded with orders. For the folks who want to have their bikes set up this way (bars close to or level with the saddle), they will be riding Parlees, Sevens, IFs, etc. And it's not as if these builders haven't built plenty of this style of bike already—it's just that, for whatever reason folks have not fixated on them.

[John H.]

I would rather see a bike that looks like that Serotta than this or this:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=138185
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=138963

As Justin said, the guy rides the Serotta a bunch and he is comfortable on it.
BTW- taller bars are not what put Serotta out of business. If anything customs like this help keep builders in business.
I would say the move to carbon and halo pricing are what took Serotta down.
I worked at a Serotta dealer around 2004-2006 and we were selling Legends and Ottrotts as fast as Serotta could make them. I am sure that it was the same for Serotta.

[laupsi]

if this is the Artie I'm thinking of he is indeed a great fellow. A great story teller, deep sense of humor and heart as big as a pumpkin. I think he may have even earned himself a purple heart fighting in Vietnam. Congrats to Arthur, hope to see him in Mallorca again this spring.

[Bruce K]

Sounds like him - he spoke glowingly about riding in Majorca and on the Signature group rides

A real gentleman

BK

[rnhood]

There are certainly some weird looking set-ups on that Signature Cycle website. Such an upright position seems counterintuitive with deep dish aero carbon wheels, but to each his own. Its better that they ride regardless of how strange it looks. I guess the real advantage of a "custom" bike is that it can be constructed and built with about any set desired - and the desired ride characteristics - and at a suitably light weight.

[SkyRider]

There are certainly some weird looking set-ups on that Signature Cycle website. Such an upright position seems counterintuitive with deep dish aero carbon wheels, but to each his own. Its better that they ride regardless of how strange it looks. I guess the real advantage of a "custom" bike is that it can be constructed and built with about any set desired - and the desired ride characteristics - and at a suitably light weight.

Amen to that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

[Bruce K]

Nice looking rig.

Clean joints, excellent paint, cool bits.

Clearly his pride and joy.

BK

[thwart]

I dunno… this bike doesn't look that awkward to me… IMO.

But then again, I'm old. ;)

[vqdriver]

when i ride more than 2100 miles in 8 months, i get to pick on his bike right???

scratch that. 8 WEEKS

[beeatnik]

when i ride more than 2100 miles in 8 months, i get to pick on his bike right???

scratch that. 8 WEEKS

My buddy used to ride 1000 miles monthly on a soft ride; he was self-aware enough to constantly pick (clown) on his own bike. It's not about the miles...

[Bruce K]

No, it's not about the miles. It IS about the fact that this gentleman rides a bike that HE enjoys, that fits HIM, and that he's putting in more time on his bike than most of us could hope for and ENJOYING every minute (well, maybe not some of the climbs in Majorca :D ).

It's actually pretty rude to "clown" on someone else's bike just because you don't think it fits your idea of what a bike "should" look like.

BK

[fuzzalow]

More power to him. It is all in the service of the ride, which this Ottrott owner does to a marked degree - over 1,000 miles a month! Ride lots indeed.

[jpw]

No, it's not about the miles. It IS about the fact that this gentleman rides a bike that HE enjoys, that fits HIM, and that he's putting in more time on his bike than most of us could hope for and ENJOYING every minute (well, maybe not some of the climbs in Majorca :D ).

It's actually pretty rude to "clown" on someone else's bike just because you don't think it fits your idea of what a bike "should" look like.

BK

'unkind' certainly.

[laupsi]

No, it's not about the miles. It IS about the fact that this gentleman rides a bike that HE enjoys, that fits HIM, and that he's putting in more time on his bike than most of us could hope for and ENJOYING every minute (well, maybe not some of the climbs in Majorca :D ).

It's actually pretty rude to "clown" on someone else's bike just because you don't think it fits your idea of what a bike "should" look like.

BK

This ;)

[54ny77]

can we please knock this s$#! off about what's someone's b.s. vision of "proper" is, or isn't? we're all a bunch of clowns on bikes, at every level.

just get out there and ride, enjoy what you got, don't be so hung up on what someone else is doing. if you are, then maybe take a good look in the mirror.

[victoryfactory]

It's actually pretty rude to "clown" on someone else's bike just because you don't think it fits your idea of what a bike "should" look like.
BK

Thanks , Bruce. There is way too much of that mindset here. And your photo of the bike on a level surface shows that it's not that "unusual" anyway.

VF

[BumbleBeeDave]

No, it's not about the miles. It IS about the fact that this gentleman rides a bike that HE enjoys, that fits HIM, and that he's putting in more time on his bike than most of us could hope for and ENJOYING every minute (well, maybe not some of the climbs in Majorca :D ).

It's actually pretty rude to "clown" on someone else's bike just because you don't think it fits your idea of what a bike "should" look like.

BK

. . . a long time, I've never understood why some people are so hung up on what other people's bikes look like and whether they look "proper," have the "right" amount of saddle-to-bar drop, or even look (gasp!) "faster backwards."

It's their bike. It fits them. They enjoy it. They felt it was money well spent. They are in better health because of it. They made a good judgment. Sounds like something to congratulate them on, not make fun of.

Fortunately, it seems a lot of the people who held such opinions left a few years ago.

BBD

[pdmtong]

i think buried in all the clowning are two scenarios.

the first is a guy who is an avid rider, who goes to a premier salon, gets a fit, orders a custom and the result is said ottrott. the bike manifestation is a result of thought and purpose.

the second are the numerous weekend warriors, who have no idea of fit or position. they have no idea that they could improve their power, handling, stability etc by working to drop the bar, move it forward shift their weight.

when I got my first road bike the premier shop set me up exactly like a guy in group 2. I was not overweight or inflexible, just novice. its years later and my position is significantly more aggressive.

when I got my ottrott (below, since sold) I rode it with the stem flipped up. Eventually I got to be able to ride it "properly". eTT 56.0 and 13.6cm HT

so, maybe we ought to spend more time helping than clowning...the bikes we see may or may not be an end point for the rider.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . so, maybe we ought to spend more time helping than clowning...the bikes we see may or may not be an end point for the rider.

Exactly what this place is about, and what it should continue to be about.

BBD

[jpw]

the 'clowning' comments about this bike are entirely invalid as we haven't the first clue about Arthur's height, weight, strength, suppleness, et.c., et.c.

if we had a picture of him riding it the smile would probably be so dazzling that the bike would be difficult to see.

[mistermo]

The guy is a riding stud by all accounts. My question or comment might be directed to Signature. Is that really the appropriate bike (let alone fit) for a rider like him?

For sure, it's a free country, etc, etc, and he can ride what he wants, etc, etc. I look at that bike and think Signature didn't do their job well.

[RedRider]

Hold on a minute... I think most of the comments on this thread are out of line and inappropriate. It's one thing when a member of this Forum posts a picture of their beloved stead and everyone comments. Even a bit of criticism when they are known to have a sense of humor and thick skin.
The owner of this beautiful Ottrott isn't even a member of the Forum, he didn't put a photo out there for the peanut gallery. He just bought a bicycle most of us would love to have in our bike rack.
Go out and ride your bikes...

[beeatnik]

Arthur's bike is awesome, as all bikes are awesome.

[akelman]

Oops.

[akelman]

My bad.

[beeatnik]

I'm guessing -- speculating, if you prefer -- that you've never had any dealings with Signature, which is one of the very best shops in the business. The thing is, pixels are free, so you can say pretty much whatever you want. But people who actually have dealt with Signature or who know the first thing about the owner of the bike you made fun of earlier are likely to call you out for being an ignorant blowhard who's looking to stir the pot.

Ignorant blowhard...haha..nice.

First off, aren't there multiple threads with hundreds of posts speculating on the demise of Serotta. In almost every one of these threads, the infamous "faster backwards" Serotta is mentioned. I just thought the irony of the "last" Serotta fitting that characterization (aesthetically, cos I give an eff about performance in this context) would not be lost on most.

Anyway, "Ari" I'm not an east coast bike collector so, yes, I've never dealt with Signature. However, I do peruse high end builds online regularly (pixels are free, I hear) and as happycampyer pointed out, other builders roll out builds like the Ottrott on the reg. These bikes are either purchased directly from the builder or through places like Signature. I just like to know how much fit numbers are manipulated at every stage of the process. People need to make a living, right?

Speaking of other builders, I've never seen a Firefly build as wacky as that Ottrott. Those of us who are fans of Firefly, IMO, become more and more convinced err day that THOSE guys really know what they're doing. <---That's me being a blowhard. :beer:

[BCS]

The guy is a riding stud by all accounts. My question or comment might be directed to Signature. Is that really the appropriate bike (let alone fit) for a rider like him?

For sure, it's a free country, etc, etc, and he can ride what he wants, etc, etc. I look at that bike and think Signature didn't do their job well.

+1.

We all have different levels of disposable income. Why drive a 911 when a VW can be had at a fraction of the price?? Why wear a JLC when a Timex keeps perfectly good time? Lightweights + faster backwards is fine with me.

HOWEVER, if that is a custom Ottrott, it looks like ····· (IMHO). It is one thing if the owner had to Macgyver a fit out of a wrong-sized stock frame that he desperately wanted. No custom F-builder would present this as a shining example of their craft. There are more elegant ways (with loads of examples in our galleries) of minimizing reach and saddle to bar drop.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . Those of us who are fans of Firefly, IMO, become more and more convinced err day that THOSE guys really know what they're doing. <---That's me being a blowhard. :beer:

So simply because Firefly have not (to your knowledge, apparently) built any bikes that look "wacky" to YOU, that is proof of their overall expertise?

If you're serious, that is a very interesting perspective.

BBD

[akelman]

Lesson learned.

[mistermo]

So simply because Firefly have not (to your knowledge, apparently) built any bikes that look "wacky" to YOU, that is proof of their overall expertise?


*If* there was a mistake here, it wasn't Serotta's, it was Signatures. They did the measuring and submitted to Serotta to build the frame. No way for Firefly or Serotta to know how their frame will eventually be built, unless they do the measuring themselves.

And I have had dealings with Signature and do not share the view that they are so superior. Sure, they sell fancy stuff. I went to Greenwich for the techno fit and visited their shop, across from the Ferrari dealer, along the street with the hedge fund managers. I paid $$$ for the techno fit and left with a 'blueprint' to give to a custom builder to build my custom frame. Upon submitting it to Mr. Well Known, Highly Respected, Custom Builder, he told me their blueprint would produce an unbuildable bike, and that if it were built, it would be unrideable. Money wasted. This is my experience with Signature and the image of this bike tells me they *might* have missed the mark again. YMMV.

[vqdriver]

There are more elegant ways (with loads of examples in our galleries) of minimizing reach and saddle to bar drop.

this may be the real question here. i would think that most of us don't 'need' a custom frame but we buy them anyway because we can and we want to. fair enough. but for someone who rides as much as this serotta's owner, and someone who has an unorthodox fit, i would consider them to be the ideal candidate for a custom frame. now if you want to talk about different ways to get to the same fit, that's a different discussion than what's happening here.....

[jpw]

this may be the real question here. i would think that most of us don't 'need' a custom frame but we buy them anyway because we can and we want to. fair enough. but for someone who rides as much as this serotta's owner, and someone who has an unorthodox fit, i would consider them to be the ideal candidate for a custom frame. now if you want to talk about different ways to get to the same fit, that's a different discussion than what's happening here.....

people who don't like slopers go custom.

[Climb01742]

Can't a few things be true at the same time?

1. Any bike that its owner loves is a very good thing?

2. Any bike that allows someone to ride happily and pain-free is a very good thing?

3. Might there be different designs that achieve 1 and 2?

4. That a bike shop doesn't really care if a bike they design and sell benefits the brand's public image. Their goals are to sell a bike, and if possible, hang as much high priced bling on it as they can.

5. Some examples of a bike with the brand's logo on the down tube re-enforce one aspect of a brand's mixed public image. Which is the brand's problem, not the rider/owner of said bike.

Unlike cable news, where life is either one thing or the exact opposite, life tends to actually traffic in complexities. Can't one bike be many things, depending on the POV?

[pdmtong]

Speaking of other builders, I've never seen a Firefly build as wacky as that Ottrott. Those of us who are fans of Firefly, IMO, become more and more convinced err day that THOSE guys really know what they're doing. <---That's me being a blowhard. :beer:

Agrred, but just because we've never seen one doesn't mean they don't exist. it's not as if every FF owner posts their bike up for admiration (or ridicule). Would FF build a whacky bike if paid/asked? we know if the question was posed to richard, the answer would be no. no whacky sachs allowed.

I've never been to signature - all I know is they pump out the $$$$ bikes. no idea if their fit expertise is worth a flight or a drive, or not.

in the case of said ottrott, it would seem like a taller HT choice might have worked better... flatten the stem, lessen the spacer stack. the guy is getting close to level seat/bars as it is. how do builders ensure there is enough weight on the front end when drop is minimal?

Learning the basis for how these bikes manifest themselves helps infuse my own fit experiments

[#campyuserftw]

It's actually pretty rude to "clown" on someone else's bike just because you don't think it fits your idea of what a bike "should" look like.

BK

+1

It is rude.

Too many people look at the pro peloton and strive for that pro "look": 130mm slammed stems, with massive saddle-to-bar drop. Some are local brand-happy, aka "my" guy is the best. Bottom line, Campy rules and Parlees with AR's Leather Tape are the best bikes. ;)

PS: It was never about the bike. It's about the biker. The rest is fluff.

[bloody sunday]

http://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697870235&stc=1&d=1383494854

i like that paint scheme - reminds me of cool runnings :beer:
and I agree with your points.

[buddybikes]

Fact 1: Older farts have more money
Fact 2: Older farts tend to have backs that are starting to fall apart

Custom builders that can build appropriately will keep revenue coming in

Signed slightly old fart (4-5cm drop)

[jlwdm]

...

in the case of said ottrott, it would seem like a taller HT choice might have worked better... flatten the stem, lessen the spacer stack. the guy is getting close to level seat/bars as it is. how do builders ensure there is enough weight on the front end when drop is minimal?

...

Lots of choices to get to the same result. After I was fit by Tom Kellogg he asked if I wanted a shorter head tube and a more upright stem or a longer head tube and a less upright stem. These discussions also considered top tube slope. I ended up with a taller head tube and a -6 degree stem. The look I prefer, but not a different ride.

Jeff

[Ahneida Ride]

Uh ... some of us have questionable knees.

I can't put any muscle into hills. If I do .... I know I'll be exiting the
sport of cycling soon. Why take the chance ?

So I have to sit and spin. It works for me ... and my Bedford
is a reflection of an upright style (french fit) with an fistful of
post showing. Bars just below saddle height.

I was fit by both Kelly and Smiley. Both guys in the same room ...

The bike works ... I can climb significantly better then in the
more aggressive position on my Serotta Legend.

My goal was to optimize my climbing position. I have zero
interest in speed on flats.

Just looking at a frame and guessing if it fits the owner is illogical.

----

I also know of a case where a guy had a custom Serotta "race" bike built ...
He was warned that he was getting a race bike .... numerous times
He insisted .... He had to look cool you know ...
And he got one heck of a sweet race bike.
So he goes and badmouths the fitter cause he got what he insisted upon.

[Ahneida Ride]

BTW- taller bars are not what put Serotta out of business. If anything customs like this help keep builders in business.


Amen .... Serotta went under for a multitude of reasons ....
none of which had to do with fitting.

[etu]

2000 miles in 8wks!
That's a lot of riding.
He gets my respect.:beer:

BTW I saw a lot of bikes that looked like Arthur's at the Knoxville Double Century.
Got a good look as I kept getting past them one by one. So that bike looks pretty fast to me.:o

[slidey]

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I'm at a loss to make any anatomical or logical sense for the downwards slope of the saddle. Can someone explain this to me?

[Bruce K]

I keep thinking the saddle thing is an optical illusion.

It looked pretty flat in person

BK

[jasonlee]

Did you notice, the bike is posed with the front wheel higher than the rear wheel, so that the bike is pointed uphill?Here's the image all leveled out...

[slidey]

Hmm...on going through the Signature Cycles website I see that some bikes have been slanted downward! So yes, that must be throwing me off...phew!

I keep thinking the saddle thing is an optical illusion.

It looked pretty flat in person

BK

On a related note... Bravo Signature Cycles, Bravo! You guys have taken the mundane task of bike photography to an all new 'level'. :crap:

[fuzzalow]

i like that paint scheme - reminds me of cool runnings :beer:

The setup on pdmtong's Ottrot is/was pretty good. The paint scheme on that bike brings to mind for me thoughts of either running the 100 meter dash or of lighting up a spliff. A paint scheme that encapsulates two completely diametric states of mind. Rastaman vibration, yay mon.

[ergott]

Not judging the bike, but notice how important the angle of the photo is. That picture does a lot to make that bike look wonky when it's not.

Some recommendations.

Try not to photograph a bike looking up at the handlebars. It makes them look higher than they really are. I also turn the bars lightly towards the camera so both hooks line up and the back on almost disappears. The more you lessen the impact of the bars on the picture the better. Here I'm facing the bike standing in line with the back of the front rim. The handlebars are slightly tilted toward me.

http://ergottwheels.smugmug.com/Sports/Cycling/The-bikes/i-Kb6jJ36/0/L/_MG_4654-L.jpg

Shot with a longer lens. That will compress the proportions and make the bars less obtrusive as well.

Try and level the wheels. The last thing you need with a bike that has less drop is the front end higher in the picture.

[laupsi]

I've never been to signature - all I know is they pump out the $$$$ bikes. no idea if their fit expertise is worth a flight or a drive, or not.

admittedly Signature caters to a niche market; they're not for everyone or everyone's budget. I know owner and founder Paul Levine. Paul is a perfectionist first, a service provider second, these two traits tightly stacked one on top the other. Paul understands customer service, his staff is meticulously trained. Signature is not the place to go if you want someone telling you "what you don't want". They do not patronize their customers, if anything, they instill a spirit of new found confidence.

Disclaimer, I have purchased a bike from Signature after getting to know PL and some of his staff.

[vav]

Second this:

Not judging the bike, but notice how important the angle of the photo is. That picture does a lot to make that bike look wonky when it's not.

Some recommendations.

Try not to photograph a bike looking up at the handlebars. It makes them look higher than they really are. I also turn the bars lightly towards the camera so both hooks line up and the back on almost disappears. The more you lessen the impact of the bars on the picture the better. Here I'm facing the bike standing in line with the back of the front rim. The handlebars are slightly tilted toward me.
Try and level the wheels. The last thing you need with a bike that has less drop is the front end higher in the picture.

Level pic:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3773/9676783970_779bbb4407_c.jpg

Looking up the bars:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5546/9676783654_c8a44e86e2_c.jpg

[Ahneida Ride]

Hey .... while we are on Signature .... Let's not forget about Lori ... ;)

Lori runs the Greenwich Conn shop for Signature.

She is an outstanding person of integrity.

If you are a novice and need advice .... just staring out
kicking tires .... She is a go to person.
Extremely knowledgeable and no attitude and no sales pressure.

:banana:

[bloody sunday]

The setup on pdmtong's Ottrot is/was pretty good. The paint scheme on that bike brings to mind for me thoughts of either running the 100 meter dash or of lighting up a spliff. A paint scheme that encapsulates two completely diametric states of mind. Rastaman vibration, yay mon.
lol, exactly.

[pdmtong]

lol, exactly.

It was Hayden Godfreys back up bike

See link below for his race day bike

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/photos.php?id=photos/2005/features/kodak_sierra/sn_camp_3_05_0133_N