View Full Version : School me on Bont Vaypors
Lewis Moon
10-30-2013, 08:38 AM
School me on Bont Vaypors
My sweet, old ice blue Sidi Genius 3s are starting to show some wear. They’ll last a bit, but I need to start looking for a replacement. I like the way Bonts are designed. I have a very high, rigid arch and a hooked last; my feet are shaped like parentheses ( ) with the big toe being the longest. The Bonts are the first shoes that look like my feet. I also like that they have a Speedplay option.
How breathable are the Vaypors?
What about sizing? I’ve always ridden in tight shoes. I have a size 12, 28.5cm foot and ride in 45 Sidis, but the Bont calculator wants to put me in 46s. Width is on the narrow side of medium. I’d rather have too short than too long. Really. Really really.
No place to try them on in PHX
FlashUNC
10-30-2013, 09:00 AM
Bont's I'd file in the love or hate category.
The shoe is remoldable, but I it seemed to hit every weird spot on my foot no matter what I did. But I know folks who swear by them.
I'd highly recommend ordering from a place that allowed returns to get the size you want, and given their rather polarizing fit.
I've not tried the Vapors but tried earlier versions.
Fit for me was hard to get right (as Flash pointed out).
I followed instructions to the letter but never fit right. And they don't make a 9.5 (US).
I wish they worked as I love:
1.Super stiff
2.Ultra low stack height.
nooneline
10-30-2013, 09:30 AM
I use Bonts. It's crazy-sounding even to me but I honestly think that I sprint faster with these stiff, awesome shoes. The stiffness comes from the sole being bathtub-shaped, so the fabric "upper" just goes across rather than across and down the sides of the foot.
They are heat-moldable. The heat-molding takes repetition and some force - there are a bunch of ways to do it, and they include techniques like: using higher than recommended heat; using the handle of a hammer or screwdriver to push and shape areas that you need specially shaped; putting on a cold sock, taking the shoe out of the oven, putting it on your foot, and wrapping the your foot/shoe tightly with an ace bandage to help shape.
Apparently people who used them in 2009-2010 had a lot of frustrations - Bont was scaling up and had some QC issues during that time.
Sizing: try 'em on in person.
Lewis Moon
10-30-2013, 09:37 AM
Sizing: try 'em on in person.
Wish I could.
nooneline
10-30-2013, 09:45 AM
Then you may have to be prepared to buy two sizes and return one.
Idris Icabod
10-30-2013, 10:00 AM
There is a thousand reply thread over on weight weenies about Bont shoes that I followed for a while. Didn't read it all but enough that I didn't get a pair:
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=36516
oldguy00
10-30-2013, 10:17 AM
School me on Bont Vaypors....
I'm in the 'hate' group... :)
First off.....you wear a size 12 shoe, but a 45 in sidi?! Jesus, are your toes curled into a fist in the sidis??
The bonts.....the whole 'moldable' thing in these off the shelf shoes is a bit misleading. The sides, top and heal cup are often somewhat moldable, but keep in mind:
1. The sole is not, which makes sense, since it would screw up the cleat mounting. So this 'custom' molding in no way serves as an orthotic replacement. With Bont, you have a flat carbon tub. And getting a proper orthotic in them is not easy, because they are not a high volume shoe, orthotics will cause a very tight fit volume/height-wise in them.
2. The moldable material doesn't 'stretch', so when you push out on one spot, you are effectively taking/changing shape of material next to it.....
All of the local riders I know who tried them, ditched them within a couple of months.
nooneline
10-30-2013, 10:21 AM
All of the local riders I know who tried them, ditched them within a couple of months.
For for comparison, they're the shoe of choice for a pretty significant percentage of international-level track racers, and a handful of top-tier road teams notable for selecting their equipment.
Lewis Moon
10-30-2013, 10:25 AM
I'm in the 'hate' group... :)
First off.....you wear a size 12 shoe, but a 45 in sidi?! Jesus, are your toes curled into a fist in the sidis??
The bonts.....the whole 'moldable' thing in these off the shelf shoes is a bit misleading. The sides, top and heal cup are often somewhat moldable, but keep in mind:
1. The sole is not, which makes sense, since it would screw up the cleat mounting. So this 'custom' molding in no way serves as an orthotic replacement. With Bont, you have a flat carbon tub. And getting a proper orthotic in them is not easy, because they are not a high volume shoe, orthotics will cause a very tight fit volume/height-wise in them.
2. The moldable material doesn't 'stretch', so when you push out on one spot, you are effectively taking/changing shape of material next to it.....
All of the local riders I know who tried them, ditched them within a couple of months.
Heh....I wear size 9.5 - 10s in a climbing shoe. For some reason, the way my foot is shaped regularly allows me to fit a 12 foot in a 11-11.5 shoe without all the problems. I looked on the Zappos site and in men's sizes, a 12 corresponds to 45. Go figure.
I also have the Pearl Izumi arch support/footbeds in the 45 Sidis as well as my foot. They take up a bit of room.
Perhaps I need to stick with Sidis.
oldguy00
10-30-2013, 10:27 AM
Bite the bullet and just get a pair of Specialized S-Works shoes. :)
wildboar
10-30-2013, 10:31 AM
Wish I could.
http://www.bont.com/cycling/dealers/
looks like there is a stocking dealer in the Phoenix metro area, go give them a try
Lewis Moon
10-30-2013, 01:00 PM
http://www.bont.com/cycling/dealers/
looks like there is a stocking dealer in the Phoenix metro area, go give them a try
I can't get the countries to come up on that link. Would you have the name of the shop?
donevwil
10-30-2013, 02:13 PM
I can't get the countries to come up on that link. Would you have the name of the shop?
Not knowing AZ too well I show:
Faster
16414 N. 91st Street, Suite 103 Scottsdale , AZ
(480) 970-1300
Tribe Multisport Inc.
7624 E Indian School Rd #101 , Scottsdale
480-421-9442
http://tribemultisport.com/
Velocraft Cycling
145 N Ellsworth Rd #109, Mesa , AZ
480 694 1317
Of the two dealers near me one said they would NOT order in my "theoretical" size for a trial fit, even if I promised to buy the pair that fit, and the second has been giving me the big run-around as if they really don't want to deal with it. Don't know why, but the first is a known crap shop while the second is very reputable locally.
Idris Icabod
10-30-2013, 02:16 PM
Art's Cyclery sells them. They are a top quality shop and have free returns so you could buy from them, order a couple of sizes and return the ones that don't fit.
Not knowing AZ too well I show:
Faster
16414 N. 91st Street, Suite 103 Scottsdale , AZ
(480) 970-1300
Tribe Multisport Inc.
7624 E Indian School Rd #101 , Scottsdale
480-421-9442
http://tribemultisport.com/
Velocraft Cycling
145 N Ellsworth Rd #109, Mesa , AZ
480 694 1317
Of the two dealers near me one said they would NOT order in my "theoretical" size for a trial fit, even if I promised to buy the pair that fit, and the second has been giving me the big run-around as if they really don't want to deal with it. Don't know why, but the first is a known crap shop while the second is very reputable locally.
...and i read this and wonder..what is the definition of 'dealer' in the Bont/ Importer universe?
the shape of the Bont toe box has always attracted my attention. such a real human foot shape, unlike many pointy cycling shoes out there that are clearly made for other types of bipedal mammal.
P.S. Aussie company, but everything is made in China. Just so you know.
Lewis Moon
10-30-2013, 02:54 PM
This is starting to really frighten me. Big bucks for a "pig in a poke". Big bucks that I can't spare. Like I said earlier, I think I'll just stick with Sidis. Been in them since the Geniuses came out.
donevwil
10-30-2013, 04:02 PM
...and i read this and wonder..what is the definition of 'dealer' in the Bont/ Importer universe?
I'm with you there. As for my local shops both are less "shop" than, fit, training consultation, hard-to-find specialty item (Bont ?) sources.
This is starting to really frighten me. Big bucks for a "pig in a poke". Big bucks that I can't spare. Like I said earlier, I think I'll just stick with Sidis. Been in them since the Geniuses came out.
If it ain't broke ...
Sadly, my best current fit in a recessed cleat shoe are my 49 Mega Dominators and they don't fit well at all. Tried everything else readily available and no truly wide options out there. Thought Lakes might work but they're evidently dead in the US. Bont appears to be the only non-stupid-expensive-custom option that is legitimately wide.
Oddly, I don't have this problem with road shoes. Specialized's fit perfectly, but don't offer recessed cleat in the same shape/size. Riding off road in road shoes is a royal PITA.
Vent complete, OP please excuse me.
ean10775
10-30-2013, 05:23 PM
I've got a pair of the CTT-one (essentially identical to the Vaypor from what I understand). I ordered according to the Bont size chart and numerous attempts measuring and remeasuring my feet according to their instructions. I ended up with a size 44.5, whereas my Northwave Aerator 3s were 43.5 (and a little short) and my Diadoras are a 44. The Bonts are very short - my toes nearly press up against the front of the shoe. I have high arches and the Bonts didn't offer enough support and we're difficult to fit with aftermarket insoles since there isn't a lot of volume in the shoe to begin with. In the end I moved to a pair if Fizik R3s in size 44 which are perfect. I still have the Bonts and wear them occasionally for shorter rides though.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
jds108
10-30-2013, 05:35 PM
The key with the Bonts is the bathtub design. So you don't need to go with their top dollar shoe to get that rigid platform. And make no mistake, they're rigid, like nothing else I have ever tried.
I have a wide foot and ordered the wides. For me they work. And I can feel the difference in stiffness. I don't know that makes any difference in actually riding, but there is no discomfort due to the stiffness.
I bought the version that they had on sale on their website, and they're a gaudy red, white, and blue (norwegian flag colors I think). But they were 1/2 off, so that worked for me.
I'm pretty sure they make narrow, medium, and wide widths, so you might be well served in finding a way to try on a pair of narrows.... Just my opinion...
Broid
10-30-2013, 08:42 PM
I've been riding Vaypor's for about a year now and they work great for me. I've been through three other shoes including Specialized, Fizik and Sidi. But the Bonts work for me because of the wider toe box. I did the heat fit thing and it was easy. When I slide in it feels like it isn't going to fit, but once my foot is in it feels great. (Now just keep your minds out of the gutter...nothing else intended here!) They scuff up real easy so the they get beat up looking real fast. they are super light and super stiff. My favorite shoe so far...
d_douglas
10-30-2013, 10:03 PM
I bought some A2s on the forum and thought they were nice, but resold them here because I simply found my Specializeds mor 'familiar'. I thought they were very nice and stiff shoes.
Sizing wise, they are weird I am a 12 in Asics (my benchmark) and wear 46Specialized, 46.5 Sidis but an ungodly 47 in Bonts! In spite of the number they were the correct size.
ultraman6970
10-31-2013, 05:45 AM
I got a set of A1s here in the forums, the shoe is super stiff, the mold process worked fine to me, sometimes you have to mold them more than once tho. Yes not too much room for custom insoles so if you have something else I would go like half extra number but the bont insole is not that bad, either way had to make my own insoles with wood (seal them and clear coated them).
The shoe is built like skates, and gives you tons of support in the arches, specially for the people that have flexible arches, since I have flexible arches plus kind'a flat arches the arch are bothered me a little bit because that area is really stiff, the shoe was giving me the support needed, the other thing is that I been using shims for pronation and with the bonts I did not have to use them at all, the knee tracking was perfect even in the knee i was having problems to get aligned all the time.
For the people that has problems fitting them, many people have issues with the arches being to rigid and their arches hurt, what I did to solve the problem was to replace the insoles with those cheap odor ones with carbon whatever material and put some pieces of handlebar tape under it to smooth the arch starting under the middle of the feet so the transition between the shoe arch and the feet is smoother, that will distribute the load better and the pain will go away, but was just tricky to find the reason for it and figure it out how to fix it. Later on took the insoles out with the extra pieces and started making my own insoles out of balsa wood just because is easy to work with.
As some point bont had been the only shoe that corrected all my feet problems to the point that I I really forget that I have the shoes on. IMO if you have flexible arches combined with wide feet bonts is the way to go.
Bont came out with this new models that are not that expensive, and even those look more like a cycling shoe but not many reviews about them. Looks like the sizing is weird also. By the way the sizing tool at the bont web site is accurate, if you are like 1 or 3 mm off for a custom shoe you can mold the closer to the size you need, it is a gamble tho.
The vapour I believe have better ventilation, besides that looks like is the same shoe than the other ones but who knows what other improvements have over the other models.
LJohnny
10-31-2013, 09:43 AM
After heat-molding my A1 shoes, the rubber part of the shoe in the heal has a some spots that have separated. (this is the rubber section with the "Bont" name and "hand made" under it). This happened on both shoes. Not to the same extent on both.
I am planning in using a blow-drier to heat up the rubber and they apply pressure to put it back together.
Anyone experience this? How did you fixed?
wildboar
10-31-2013, 11:30 AM
Not knowing AZ too well I show:
Velocraft Cycling
145 N Ellsworth Rd #109, Mesa , AZ
480 694 1317
From reading the reviews, this Velocraft place stocks and understands how to fit Bonts properly. You really need this with the Bonts, they feel different than anything.
Of the two dealers near me one said they would NOT order in my "theoretical" size for a trial fit, even if I promised to buy the pair that fit, and the second has been giving me the big run-around as if they really don't want to deal with it. Don't know why, but the first is a known crap shop while the second is very reputable locally.
This is basically the same story I got from the dealer here. I need a wide size which ends up being a special order you wait weeks for and then you own it. No returns. I bought some Shimano R320's that come with 60 day mfg satisfaction guarantee after I found that out.
HillDancer
10-31-2013, 08:20 PM
I'm having a favorable experience with this shop http://www.footdynamics.com/store/department/bont-cycling-22.cfm; very good service after the sale. They have the tools to perform aggressive reshaping if you don't succeed heat molding at home. They also offer a custom footbed/orthotic, and it's discounted when purchased with a pair of Bonts.
I had fit issues with the first shoe pair ordered, and this shop continues working to make it right. I suspect I'd have been SOL by this time if the shoes were purchased elsewhere, including direct from Bont.
This is starting to really frighten me. Big bucks for a "pig in a poke". Big bucks that I can't spare. Like I said earlier, I think I'll just stick with Sidis. Been in them since the Geniuses came out.
try ebay first for a pair of used ones at a low price.
so in conclusion are we saying that Bont sizing is one size up from what one might typically wear in other brands? i'm nominal 43 but 44 may be for me in Bonts.
jds108
11-03-2013, 02:03 PM
Re: sizing, go to their website and follow their instructions for measuring your foot in cm. I will say that I did this and my foot was right on the borderline re: length. I ordered the shorter direct from Bont. One of my toes touched so I exchanged for the next larger size before I did any heat molding.
ultraman6970
11-03-2013, 03:12 PM
always add like 5 mm in the length just in case.
always add like 5 mm in the length just in case.
I went through Bont's sizing process (measured my feet, drawings, numbers, by fax to China et.c.), and i was recommended 43 in a standard width fitting.
Bont has a sizing chart on its website. my feet are 2 mm shorter than the max recommended length for size 43.
I'm not 'buying' the recommendation. Bont knows its shoes, and i certainly know my feet :)
I will be organizing a 'mass' shoe trying session through my LBS this month. Bont, Specialized, and Lake will be on the menu, in 43, 43 1/2 (if an option), and 44 sizings.
uno-speedo
11-04-2013, 03:29 AM
I sell Bont online and always get returns for the shoes fitting too tight, and we thoroughly recommend going a size up than what the Bont sizing wizard recommends.
The Vaypor+ appears to have more accurate sizing.
oldguy00
11-04-2013, 07:20 AM
When I bought mine a while ago, I think the general recommendation was that if you were kind of between sizes, go with the larger. Using that, I was able to get the right size shoe length-wise.
I sell Bont online and always get returns for the shoes fitting too tight, and we thoroughly recommend going a size up than what the Bont sizing wizard recommends.
The Vaypor+ appears to have more accurate sizing.
that's good to know. thanks:)
do you happen to know how many millimeters wider a wide fit is over a standard fit in Bont shoes? is the extra width throughout the length of the shoe, or more across the fore foot area?
HillDancer
11-04-2013, 03:28 PM
Here's a chart that predates the size wizard http://www.bont.com/cycling/items/support/sizeChart.html
Unfortunately, if one has high volume feet, as measured foot width isn't necessarily valid; think two to three sizes larger.
Here's a chart that predates the size wizard http://www.bont.com/cycling/items/support/sizeChart.html
Unfortunately, if one has high volume feet, as measured foot width isn't necessarily valid; think two to three sizes larger.
high volume feet - how is this to be determined?
HillDancer
11-04-2013, 05:01 PM
Chubby feet fit the description, so does a high instep.
http://www.med.nyu.edu/rehabengineering/images/footnlhinstep.jpg
uno-speedo
11-05-2013, 12:10 AM
do you happen to know how many millimeters wider a wide fit is over a standard fit in Bont shoes? is the extra width throughout the length of the shoe, or more across the fore foot area?
Per HillDancers link, the wide shoe offers approx., 10mm more width. From memory the width is in the toe box area. Typically the width is affected by Bonts Lateral Forefoot Support, which squeezes your toes together and then people needing the next size up.
Something to bear in mind, is that the shoes do require heating in your oven sometimes twice to get that perfect fit, they will not feel comfortable straight out of the box (in most cases). Even using your wifes hairdryer to work out stubborn areas is a necessity. An insole can help (trimmed to fit) as my Vaypors have a slightly lower arch support than I would care for.
Bont shoes do take more customization than other shoes. Our shop is split down the middle, some riding Bont and the others S-Works.
Made for cycling, not walking.
Here's a chart that predates the size wizard http://www.bont.com/cycling/items/support/sizeChart.html
Unfortunately, if one has high volume feet, as measured foot width isn't necessarily valid; think two to three sizes larger.
a standard width Bont in a Euro 43 is 95 mm - 105 mm
44 is 96 mm - 107 mm
a wide fitting 43 is > 105 mm
44 is > 107 mm
my feet, when under pressure and fully splayed out, are about 106 mm at their widest point. I wonder if i should go 'wide' and wear a slightly thicker sock? i need to go and try them on i think.
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