New Road Frame Ti or True Temper S3

[pjmsj21]

My Director of Finance has provided me with a very strong incentive to loose about ten pounds and get down to 180 and that incentive is a new custom frame. I currently have a Fierte IT and a Gunnar Custom Sport both 60cm frames.

I have been on the forum long enough to know the adage about getting your builders input and I certainly will do that when I finalize a builder selection.

But of late I have been trying to look at the merits of Ti versus True Temper's S3. They come out relatively close on cost with S3 likely coming in a bit less but not all that much and the weight appears to be similar as well.

The downside I have heard about S3 is that it is rather fragile and dents easily and some builders even reducing their warranty on S3 frames, although that doesn't appear to be the case with Waterford.

There doesn't seem to be much downside on ti when compared to S3 but I have to say I remain intrigued with the idea of a very light (not silly light) steel frame.

Does anyone have any real life experience with both materials that I might learn from?

TIA

Pat

[oldpotatoe]

My Director of Finance has provided me with a very strong incentive to loose about ten pounds and get down to 180 and that incentive is a new custom frame. I currently have a Fierte IT and a Gunnar Custom Sport both 60cm frames.

I have been on the forum long enough to know the adage about getting your builders input and I certainly will do that when I finalize a builder selection.

But of late I have been trying to look at the merits of Ti versus True Temper's S3. They come out relatively close on cost with S3 likely coming in a bit less but not all that much and the weight appears to be similar as well.

The downside I have heard about S3 is that it is rather fragile and dents easily and some builders even reducing their warranty on S3 frames, although that doesn't appear to be the case with Waterford.

There doesn't seem to be much downside on ti when compared to S3 but I have to say I remain intrigued with the idea of a very light (not silly light) steel frame.

Does anyone have any real life experience with both materials that I might learn from?

TIA

Pat

Sold both and both do what they are supposed to do. However, and I know there are a lot of variation in price but a S3 Waterford was $1000 less expensive than a Moots Vamoots or CR.

Waterford is prettier(painted), about the same frame weight. If dipped into the Gulf of Mexico , Waterford will corrode.

[jasonlee]

I think it's going to be subjective input you receive. I have 2 Ti bikes, one superlight Easton aluminum MTB, Cannondale CX9, and a few steel bikes.

I am a lighter guy (145 lbs) and have never dented a frame, broken a spoke, broken a chain, and rarely get flats (at least until I submit this message).

Some people I know are similar body types but have constant issues with breaking components, frames and such.

Go with the bike you desire more and makes you happier. You'll want to ride it more, which is the whole goal - whether your DoF wants you to or not.

[pjmsj21]

Sold both and both do what they are supposed to do. However, and I know there are a lot of variation in price but a S3 Waterford was $1000 less expensive than a Moots Vamoots or CR.

Waterford is prettier(painted), about the same frame weight. If dipped into the Gulf of Mexico , Waterford will corrode.

Peter...funny you mention Waterford and also that it is prettier. This is the photo that I can't get out of my head. Add a silver Campy alloy group and you have a truly classic bike.

Again my only concern is that it has a reputation by some of denting easily.

[eddief]

I guess they can both go without paint. Something about nekkid ti. It won't rust (ever) if your throw into the gulf.

[weisan]

Pjm-pal, one can always dream. But don't count your chicken before they are hatched, start chipping away at the ten pounds of flesh.:eek: :):banana:

[pjmsj21]

Pjm-pal, one can always dream. But don't count your chicken before they are hatched, start chipping away at the ten pounds of flesh.:eek: :):banana:

Very true especially considering that we are going into a less riding friendly time of the year. None the less I am pretty motivated.

[Ken Robb]

Very true especially considering that we are going into a less riding friendly time of the year. None the less I am pretty motivated.

Yeah and holiday food, drink and parties are over-rated. :beer:

[krismac23]

True temper!

[Columbus SLX]

I just had a road frame (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=135023) made from mostly S3. It's absolutely amazing and, coupled with an enve 2.0, the same weight as my Ti litespeed with alloy-steerer generic fork. I love it, modern superbike. It jazzes me up more than the thought of my litespeed or any Ti really, and I'm pretty sure that's why it goes fast.

I do a throw a couple bits of foam pipe insulation on the main tubes when I transport it, but that's just 'cause I'm a ninny and a little extra protection never hurts :p I do that with any bike really, it's here and it's cut, takes 5 seconds to pop on, boom, done.

[Peter B]

Peter...funny you mention Waterford and also that it is prettier. This is the photo that I can't get out of my head. Add a silver Campy alloy group and you have a truly classic bike.

Again my only concern is that it has a reputation by some of denting easily.

S3 is a nice, light steel tubeset with quite thin walls. Dent resistance is not its strong suit.

You can paint ti if you want. Picture that Waterford with bare chainstays...

[EricEstlund]

Hey Pat-

I see you are in Eugene. If you are interested, shoot me a note and I can show you some S3 stuff (and similar) in the works. There are a bunch of good pipes out there, it's just a matter of pulling the right combo for your applications.

[evo111@comcast.net]

Tom Kellogg at Spectrum Cycles has a nice discussion on frame materials on his website - sorry could not provide the link.

Work with your builder and they can build the bike to suit your needs and desires. I don't harp on the material as much as the ride qualities you want.

Good luck with the project.

[Cat3roadracer]

In my opinion, there is nothing like the ride of a high end Ti cycle.

I am fortunate to pilot a road cycle, a cross cycle, and an MTB. They all float.

Contact K.Bedford or Moots and have your dream frame built.

[jtakeda]

Go with the bike you desire more and makes you happier. You'll want to ride it more, which is the whole goal - whether your DoF wants you to or not.

This.

I think dents, chain breaks and all the things jasonlee described are less a function of weight, power or frame material and more a result of how well you take care of your bikes.

Don't worry about fragile unless you put out watts like a man on steroids. Get the one that you want the most and will be excited to ride.

Take care of the bike and they will both last a lifetime.

[Jack Brunk]

frames that I've owned have all been some of the best bikes I've ridden. I wouldn't hesitate to build a terrific frame again.

[veloduffer]

I own both custom steel (Sachs) and ti (Kish) and think you could look at your choice as aesthetic vs function. If you are looking for a particular style (eg nice lugs) or builder, you'd probably want steel. I wanted a Sachs because of the aesthetic (anniversary edition), history and design philosophy (Richard often has said he doesn't do custom but made-to-measure).

When I wanted a gravel grinder, I chose ti for its strength, lightweight and anti-corrosive properties. I got mine half-painted leaving the chain stays and bottom racket areas as bare ti where's the chips usually occur.

.