View Full Version : High end 7 speed freewheels?
jh_on_the_cape
10-29-2013, 09:32 AM
My son's bike has a Shimano HG37, 7-speed, 14x28t freewheel (thread on, not cassette) which is just so heavy.
I know this is old/cheap tech, but are there any options to lighten/improve this without having to build a new wheel onto a cassette hub?
Thanks.
tv_vt
10-29-2013, 09:39 AM
Yeah, go with a straight block 12-18 freewheel. Those 28 tooth cogs are heavy!:)
Seriously, not sure it's worth worrying about (atmo). He'll outgrow the bike soon enough, yes?
FWIW I do have some 7 speed freewheels if you're interested.
19wisconsin64
10-29-2013, 09:44 AM
hi, i've been using dura ace freewheels for .... o ....... about 30 years. i usually use a 13-25 one. while these are heavier than the aluminum ones, they are durable and smooth running, and shift well for 7 speeds.
another option is regina. you can look online for the different weights for different 7 speed free wheels.
good luck!
saab2000
10-29-2013, 09:47 AM
Freewheels are much heavier than cassettes because they have the 'cassette' body and ratchet inside them.
The hubs, conversely, are much lighter than cassette hubs.
Not worth pursuing if it works OK.
Freewheels went away because broken and/or bent axles were common. Newer designs put the outer bearings closer to the frame and spread out the load.
They are one piece of old-tech I'm not sorry is gone though I do have fond memories of Suntour Winner Pro freewheels and the nice sound they made!
Putting on a new chain and a new freewheel was like getting a new bike!
But back to the OP, what bike is this one? It's unlikely you can change much without changing almost everything.
sales guy
10-29-2013, 10:11 AM
Mel Pinto still has some Sachs freewheels. Not a ton, but they will build you up something. The original Sachs are still fantastic. Weight is pretty tubby, but worth a freewheel that will last forever.
oldpotatoe
10-29-2013, 10:46 AM
Mel Pinto still has some Sachs freewheels. Not a ton, but they will build you up something. The original Sachs are still fantastic. Weight is pretty tubby, but worth a freewheel that will last forever.
Like above, been using DA and some 600 FWs, very long lasting, shift great. I used to use Sachs, but, IMHO, rarely lasted pasta chain swap at first 1500 miles.
jh_on_the_cape
10-29-2013, 11:23 AM
The bike is this one
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/archive/2004/2004hotrock/04hotrockfs2421-speed
and the rear wheel with freewheel just feels heavy. I want to keep the 28 tooth for low end gearing on the mtb. The components are all low end and I thought a freewheel upgrade would be a cheap and easy way to drop weight and increase shifting performance. Some old XTR freewheel or something.
I don't want to build a whole new 24" wheel with a cassette hub since you have to get spokes cut and threaded and it's just a pain.
He will outgrow it but he is the oldest of 3.
Ken Robb
10-29-2013, 12:26 PM
as SAAB points out there will be little weight loss overall with this switch because the weight of the ratchet system that the cassette doesn't have will be offset by its move to the hub assembly.
ultraman6970
10-29-2013, 12:29 PM
Many generations raced with those type of wheels :)
Ralph
10-29-2013, 12:37 PM
I would try one of these IRD freewheels. Much higher quality than the cheap Shimano HG's. Good cog choices also. Available from lots of places, including their own web site. E Bay etc.
http://www.interlocracing.com/freewheels_steel.html
sales guy
10-29-2013, 12:46 PM
I would try one of these IRD freewheels. Much higher quality than the cheap Shimano HG's. Good cog choices also.
http://www.interlocracing.com/freewheels_steel.html
Seriously??? Horrific quality. Same as the 20 buck cheaply replacement freewheels for Murray's and huffys. Unless they are making them out of gold or titanium or something, I would try and find a Shimano, Regina or a Sachs freewheel. There are people out there who have bodies and cogs. They can build something up for you.
To the poster about Sachs not lasting, I never had that issue. I still have a couple from the late 80's and the teeth look fantastic. They were the standard of durability. Those and their chains. Which is why SRAM bought them. They brought serious quality to the SRAM brand. It was SRAMs first step to world domination. Sachs brought them shifter, freewheels, hubs, chains, free hub designs. A bunch of stuff.
fiamme red
10-29-2013, 12:47 PM
I would try one of these IRD freewheels. Much higher quality than the cheap Shimano HG's.I didn't know that. The early IRD freewheels had a lot of failures. Based on reputation alone, I'd go with Shimano.
Ralph
10-29-2013, 12:58 PM
The last IRD I saw was pretty good. Much better than the new Chinese made $10-15 Shimano ones available on E bay. I do understand there was some problems with early IRD's.
Some of these new 7 speed freewheels (the cheap Shimano's for example) are 5 mm center to center on the cog, and will index with any 8's system that needs 5 mm center to center. 8 speed Campy, Some Shimano.
I ran Campy Record 8 Ergo levers a long time with the cheap Shimano 7 14-28 freewheels, Sachs freewheels, etc. Never got to measure a 7 speed IRD. But suspect it is 5 mm center to center. Suntour wouldn't work. Sachs was the highest quality longest lasting freewheel I ever used. Hard to find a new one, and they aren't cheap.
sales guy
10-29-2013, 01:09 PM
The last IRD I saw was pretty good. Much better than the new Chinese made $10-15 Shimano ones available on E bay. I do understand there was some problems with early IRD's.
Some of these new 7 speed freewheels (the cheap Shimano's for example) are 5 mm center to center on the cog, and will index with any 8's system that needs 5 mm center to center. 8 speed Campy, Some Shimano.
I ran Campy Record 8 Ergo levers a long time with the cheap Shimano 7 14-28 freewheels, Sachs freewheels, etc. Never got to measure a 7 speed IRD. But suspect it is 5 mm center to center. Suntour wouldn't work. Sachs was the highest quality longest lasting freewheel I ever used. Hard to find a new one, and they aren't cheap.
They are expensive. That's the downside. But still will last for ages.
The Suntour Winners have always been my favorite (including a Shimano 600 I have). Very long lasting, with hard sprockets. Not made anymore of course. Never tried an IRD. The newer Shimano are junk, take one look at the body which is half the size of any freewheel I have ever seen.
The Sunrace freewheels actually seem decent (bonus points for being cheap); I have one 7 speed in a 13-25 and so far so good. Seems well made. Hyperglide compatible.
regularguy412
10-29-2013, 03:18 PM
The Suntour Winners have always been my favorite (including a Shimano 600 I have). Very long lasting, with hard sprockets. Not made anymore of course. Never tried an IRD. The newer Shimano are junk, take one look at the body which is half the size of any freewheel I have ever seen.
The Sunrace freewheels actually seem decent (bonus points for being cheap); I have one 7 speed in a 13-25 and so far so good. Seems well made. Hyperglide compatible.
+1 on Sunrace.
Have been using one on my trainer bike for over 3 years. Still going strong. Prolly have 5,000 miles on it by now.
Mike in AR:beer:
oldpotatoe
10-29-2013, 03:24 PM
Seriously??? Horrific quality. Same as the 20 buck cheaply replacement freewheels for Murray's and huffys. Unless they are making them out of gold or titanium or something, I would try and find a Shimano, Regina or a Sachs freewheel. There are people out there who have bodies and cogs. They can build something up for you.
To the poster about Sachs not lasting, I never had that issue. I still have a couple from the late 80's and the teeth look fantastic. They were the standard of durability. Those and their chains. Which is why SRAM bought them. They brought serious quality to the SRAM brand. It was SRAMs first step to world domination. Sachs brought them shifter, freewheels, hubs, chains, free hub designs. A bunch of stuff.
First, I have sold dozens of IRD FWs and are much better than the $20 shimano and Sunrace, sold a few dozen of those as well.
Secondly, Sachs FWs were gone, long gone by the time SRAM bought them, never was a 'Sram' freewheel.
Besides, I thought sram's first stem toward 'world domination' was gripsh_t and squeaky avid brakes.
palincss
10-29-2013, 05:33 PM
Just how important are a few grams saved on a chid's bike anyway?
sales guy
10-29-2013, 08:23 PM
First, I have sold dozens of IRD FWs and are much better than the $20 shimano and Sunrace, sold a few dozen of those as well.
Secondly, Sachs FWs were gone, long gone by the time SRAM bought them, never was a 'Sram' freewheel.
Besides, I thought sram's first stem toward 'world domination' was gripsh_t and squeaky avid brakes.
SRAM owned grip shift first, they were always SRAM technically. Bought Sachs second, then rock Shox, avid, Truvativ then Zipp. Sachs was in mid to late 90's.
I got a Sachs freewheel about three years ago from Mel pinto. They still had some last year when I looked. Not many though. But could build stuff up from the stash of cogs and bodies they had.
SRAM never labeled as SRAM freewheels. Still as Sachs till they were officially done in 2000 with them.
The ird freewheels I dealt with sucked. Could have been a bad batch. Who knows.
JAGI410
10-29-2013, 08:36 PM
I have probably 1000 miles on an IRD 14-28 freewheel, it works perfectly. I like that it's nearly silent when coasting too.
jtakeda
10-29-2013, 08:59 PM
I love the suntour ones.
I feel like the winner freewheel I had was really great.
weehastogopee
10-30-2013, 01:41 AM
I've used a 6 speed IRD freewheel. never had a problem with it. just not index compatible which kind of sucks
oliver1850
10-30-2013, 01:58 AM
I weighed a few I had close at hand. The current cheap Chinese Shimano 14-28 only weighed 60g more than a 13-21 Sachs, and was lighter than a 13-28 SunTour. I don't think there's much weight to be saved by switching unless you go with aluminum cogs, which aren't going to last long and will cost a bundle.
SRAM did package freewheels with their brand, evidently even gave them a new name, "Champ". The freewheel itself was still branded Sachs, at least when this one was made in 1999.
sales guy
10-30-2013, 04:57 AM
I weighed a few I had close at hand. The current cheap Chinese Shimano 14-28 only weighed 60g more than a 13-21 Sachs, and was lighter than a 13-28 SunTour. I don't think there's much weight to be saved by switching unless you go with aluminum cogs, which aren't going to last long and will cost a bundle.
SRAM did package freewheels with their brand, evidently even gave them a new name, "Champ". The freewheel itself was still branded Sachs, at least when this one was made in 1999.
Wow! Thanks. I'd never seen one label by SRAM. I knew the Sachs ones were still out till at least 2000/2001. Cause I had gotten some. Never had any with SRAM labeling though.
oldpotatoe
10-30-2013, 05:54 AM
Wow! Thanks. I'd never seen one label by SRAM. I knew the Sachs ones were still out till at least 2000/2001. Cause I had gotten some. Never had any with SRAM labeling though.
Ok, I stand corrected, but IRD FWs really work well, at least the ones I sold and index compatible although most were for friction shifters bikes.
And for the post right below, yep the $20 shimano and Sunrace FWs work fine also, what's surprising is they are still a freewheel, with pawls and body and bearings, etc, I'm surprised they are only 20bucks.
likebikes
10-30-2013, 06:06 AM
the cheap shimano freewheels are fine.
jh_on_the_cape
10-30-2013, 01:28 PM
Just how important are a few grams saved on a chid's bike anyway?
For many easy parts it was more than a few grams. I bought a carbon seatpost in the classifieds for $20 and it saved almost half a pound (about 150 g). I will do the stem and bars next. I bought a ti BB for $20 which will save another 150 g or so.
He weighs about 50 pounds. His bike is about 30. Getting it to 25 is relatively cheap and easy given the junk they put on these bikes.
Say you are 150 pounds and your bike goes from 90 to 75 pounds for $100 or so! Still heavy, but better.
jh_on_the_cape
10-30-2013, 01:30 PM
I weighed a few I had close at hand. The current cheap Chinese Shimano 14-28 only weighed 60g more than a 13-21 Sachs, and was lighter than a 13-28 SunTour. I don't think there's much weight to be saved by switching unless you go with aluminum cogs, which aren't going to last long and will cost a bundle.
.
Thanks for checking that. Why are aluminum cogs $$ and short lived? I thought all modern cassettes were aluminum, even the cheap ones?
I found some that look aluminum by Sunrace, 13-28, for cheap. Any idea about those?
Ti Designs
10-30-2013, 05:48 PM
I happen to have at least 4 Dura-Ace freewheel bodies, about 50 cogs or various sizes and all the spacers and shims - that was my kit to build the freewheel that I needed back when I used 7-speed. Many of the cogs are new, but I never used a 28, doubt I have anything larger than a 24 in the set. I never use them any more, would be glad to get rid of them, and you get extra points if it gets a kid into cycling...
choke
10-30-2013, 06:16 PM
Why are aluminum cogs $$ and short lived? I thought all modern cassettes were aluminum, even the cheap ones?Al is softer than steel so the chain wears it out quicker. Al is OK for chainrings because they have a lot more teeth so they don't wear nearly as fast as cogs. Almost all cassettes are steel, though there are some that are partially titanium.
oliver1850
10-31-2013, 12:51 AM
There are some aluminum cassettes out there. I have a couple of AL American Classics, but most are steel, ti, or a mixture.
There are no current aluminum freewheels as far as I know. The ones that exist are generally vintage high end Campagnolo, Everest, maybe Regina and some others. These were mainly for special events, so there weren't a lot made. They wear fast, so nice ones are especially rare.
Here's a Campagnolo:
http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?ID=F245E047-A67C-4740-AF0A-D85A607EB5C0&Enum=114&AbsPos=1
This Everest weighs about 1/2 of a steel freewheel:
http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?ID=BC400B1F-4B85-4DE3-B1EE-7C4F1DAD06CE&Enum=114&AbsPos=6
Here's an Everest on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Everest-NOVA-vintage-threaded-ALU-freewheel-7-sp-for-Campagnolo-NEW-/261307877445?pt=US_Cassettes_Freewheels_Cogs&hash=item3cd729c845#ht_226wt_1275
and a NOS one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-EVEREST-NOVA-EXTRALEGGERA-7-speed-13-16-14-15-17-19-21-ISO-freewheel-ALLOY-/310709334100?pt=US_Cassettes_Freewheels_Cogs&hash=item4857b83054#ht_1664wt_1037
cheshirecycle
11-05-2013, 12:47 PM
I have access to high end alloy FW's. I have to drive about 35 mins to get one and it'd be about $95. I know... $95 :eek:
But there are made in Italy...:hello:
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