has anyone anodized or otherwise colored titanium black?

[pavel]

I have a ti seatpost that I would like to turn black. (because I'm very, very vain, and also it weighs less than my ritchey.)

Yes, this is a completely pointless exercise but... indulge me.

Anyone do anything like this?

[4Rings6Stars]

paint or powdercoat would be my first guess...

I'll trade you a black thomson + cash if it's 27.2 :)

[sales guy]

Titanium isn't anodized. Like ti spokes, that isn't anodized. It is an electric reaction at different frequencies/voltage. And black is not one that can be done. Unless something has changed since I worked for a bike parts company making titanium seatposts, it can't be done in black. It would have to be a ti/nitride coating. Not an anodizing process.

[pavel]

It's a 27.0 - otherwise i would have been all over a setback masterpiece long ago.

@salesguy - thanks, good to know!

[sales guy]

Traditionally, the colors available are gold, blue, green, natural ti and purple. Or slight variations of those colors. Check out the union/marwi ti dye spokes to see the colors. Never seen black. Always wanted black and red spokes, not together. But for certain wheels. It would have been cool.

[phcollard]

Powdercoat is so thick you may end up with a 28.0mm seatpost :banana:

[Mike748]

Dare I recommend spray paint? Mask it at the insertion line, and paint only the exposed part.

[mike p]

Ti frames are painted all the time. Obviously you'll have to worry about scratches with insertion.

Mike

[thirdgenbird]

I have a ti seatpost that I would like to turn black. (because I'm very, very vain, and also it weighs less than my ritchey.)

Yes, this is a completely pointless exercise but... indulge me.

Anyone do anything like this?

Every bike I've seen you put together has been perfect. I loved your old bianch tt bike...

Is there another solution? Can we see the bike? I'm wondering if a titanium stem is the answer.

[false_Aest]

Why can't you figure out what the insertion point is, mark it and then send the post to a painter?

[pavel]

because saddle height tends to change, especially if you swap saddles.

[pavel]

Every bike I've seen you put together has been perfect. I loved your old bianch tt bike...

Is there another solution? Can we see the bike? I'm wondering if a titanium stem is the answer.

you must be thinking of someone else - i've never owned a bianchi or a tt bike!

[thirdgenbird]

you must be thinking of someone else - i've never owned a bianchi or a tt bike!

I must.

I still vote you give us a picture of the bike.

[RichardL]

It is an electric reaction at different frequencies/voltage. And black is not one that can be done.
Not sure about seatposts, but I have black titanium bolts, and they are not coated but achieved the black color through a special process.

[thirdgenbird]

Come to think of it, I've seen black titanium rings and watches. There must be some process that works.

[mike p]

What process does firefly use when they put the blue green on they're Ti frames? Anodize?

Mike

[Jack Brunk]

Maybe ask the guys at Firefly who ti anodize just about every day.

[sales guy]

Come to think of it, I've seen black titanium rings and watches. There must be some process that works.



Yes, there are ti bolts and rings, but again, they are not anodized. They are a special coating. Traditional anodizing is a chemical reaction with electricity, the metal and the dye in a vat. You can't do that with titanium. Again, unless something has changed, I've never seen an anodized titanium part. Only a coated one.

Think of anodizing like dying a piece of cloth. From white to red. You put the cloth In a vat of red dye and it soaks in the cloth. For aluminum parts, it's the same, with some electricity thrown in.

Titanium isn't pours like aluminum is and it doesn't soak in. What has been done is an electrical charge with an acid and stencil. That's what we did to mark the logo and min marks on the seatposts we made in house. The color of it was a ti dye effect. Again, everything it know and have seen is ti is coated, not anode.

Look at the websites that sell ti bolts. Link to one here

http://www.uberbikecomponents.com/view-product/Uberbike-Titanium-Aheadset-Preload-Upgrade-Bolt---Black

It lists it as ti nitride coated and not anodized.

[sales guy]

What process does firefly use when they put the blue green on they're Ti frames? Anodize?

Mike


This could be the acid etching we did at the parts company. It leaves it a ti dye effect(blue green look).

[Mike V]

The pure titanium (G23) is black.

A titanium-aluminum-nitrate coating could turn it black but is very hard to do and only a few platers can do it so the finish would look good. It wouldn't work though. It goes on thick.

I used to work in aerospace plating

MV

[cmbicycles]

Torontocycles.com sells some black anodized ti bolts and such, they may be worth an email or phone call. They explain the ti anodizing process on the website for a few colors, but they just state that black is a special process and only have a few ti items in black.

[sales guy]

I looked at firefly a color listings, no black shown. Those look like the acid etching we did. All those colors were ones we had experienced. I'm curious so I am going to call and ask tomorrow. I bet it's electro acid etching.


http://www.instructables.com/id/Anodize-Titanium/

If you type in anodizing titanium, they show the color chart of what can be done, black is not a color.
I attached it.

I think the easiest way to name is anodizing but it isn't the normal way of anodizing like on aluminum.

[sales guy]

Anodizing

Anodizing is a process where a coating is built up on the metal either by heating, chemical, or electrolytic means. In the case of titanium, the layer is an oxide of titanium. Coloring can be done by heating, but without much control of either color or uniform appearance. The most common method is to form an oxide layer by electrolytic means, similar to the process used in electroplating. The work to be colored is attached to the positive connection of a power supply (the anode), and usually another piece of titanium is connected to the negative side (the cathode) of the supply. Both are submerged in a mildly conductive solution, such as phosphoric acid (cola soft drinks), TSP - TriSodium Phosphate (dishwasher detergent). When power is applied to the contacts, a uniform layer of titanium oxide forms on the anode. As the voltage increases, the thickness of the layer also increases. Certain colors will appear at specific voltage levels. The "change" from one color to another is not sharply defined, but rather shades gradually through a limited spectrum.

The apparent color imparted to the metal is caused by interference between certain wavelengths of light reflecting off the metal and oxide coated surface. Light passing through the oxide layer, then reflecting off of the metal, must travel farther than light reflecting directly off the surface of the oxide. If one wave pattern is out of synch with the other, they will cancel each other out, making that particular color "darker" or not visible at all. If the thickness is such that a specific wavelength of light following one path closely synchronizes with that of the other path, then the wave strength (amplitude) will be increased, and that particular color would appear brighter. When the wave patterns cancel each other, it is called destructive interference, and when they match, it is constructive interference. It is possible that the thickness will create a combination of effects at the same time. At about 110-120 VDC, the anodized titanium takes on a purple appearance, but with green highlights or reflections.

Here is a better chart of the colors.

[Mike V]

Look up TiCN coating.

[sales guy]

Look up TiCN coating.

Do you mean alticn? That's what you mentioned before and that will have a black color. Ticn is blueish grey color.

I'm not sure anyone in the bike industry would have that coating, either of them in fact available. It's way over the top for the bike world. Finding a bolt in that fashion or something like that, doubtful.

For the OP, he could send it off to have something done, but for general purposes in the bike world, no one offers it. At least not that I've seen. Everything http we use is all standard colors/treatments. Ticn, tiain, alticn, no one I know of would have them or use them.

[rrudoff]

I would talk ti these people http://adamstestingserver.com/titanium.htm

http://www.tiodize.com/anodizing.html

I have had other tiodize processes done for Aero and Bio applications but the type III is cosmetic in color Not sure on thickness (e.g. hard anodizing), exact black tone, and lot charge likely to be several hundred dollars at a minimum. Frames are shown in pdf brochure.

[avalonracing]

Nice explanation.

Anodizing

Anodizing is a process where a coating is built up on the metal either by heating, chemical, or electrolytic means. In the case of titanium, the layer is an oxide of titanium. Coloring can be done by heating, but without much control of either color or uniform appearance. The most common method is to form an oxide layer by electrolytic means, similar to the process used in electroplating. The work to be colored is attached to the positive connection of a power supply (the anode), and usually another piece of titanium is connected to the negative side (the cathode) of the supply. Both are submerged in a mildly conductive solution, such as phosphoric acid (cola soft drinks), TSP - TriSodium Phosphate (dishwasher detergent). When power is applied to the contacts, a uniform layer of titanium oxide forms on the anode. As the voltage increases, the thickness of the layer also increases. Certain colors will appear at specific voltage levels. The "change" from one color to another is not sharply defined, but rather shades gradually through a limited spectrum.

The apparent color imparted to the metal is caused by interference between certain wavelengths of light reflecting off the metal and oxide coated surface. Light passing through the oxide layer, then reflecting off of the metal, must travel farther than light reflecting directly off the surface of the oxide. If one wave pattern is out of synch with the other, they will cancel each other out, making that particular color "darker" or not visible at all. If the thickness is such that a specific wavelength of light following one path closely synchronizes with that of the other path, then the wave strength (amplitude) will be increased, and that particular color would appear brighter. When the wave patterns cancel each other, it is called destructive interference, and when they match, it is constructive interference. It is possible that the thickness will create a combination of effects at the same time. At about 110-120 VDC, the anodized titanium takes on a purple appearance, but with green highlights or reflections.

Here is a better chart of the colors.

[cachagua]

Have you got a university close to you with a chemistry or materials-science department? Find someone there with "emeritus" after their name, and they'll tell you way more than you wanted to know.

And then come back and tell us, natch!

[happycampyer]

Does Seven still take the position that anodizing their frames voids the warranty? I know Rob Vandermark has been vocal critic of anodizing titanium.

[Peter P.]

Why can't you figure out what the insertion point is, mark it and then send the post to a painter?

This is a very legitimate option. I read of one cyclist who purchased the new Ritchey Road Logic 2.0 frame and had his seatpost painted to match the frame. The painter stopped roughly 1cm short of the necessary extension and covered the paint junction with a tape stripe matching the stripes on the Ritchey frame.
Ingenious. No reason you can't do this yourself.

With apologies to the owner:

http://imageshack.us/a/img13/1504/3mxi.jpg

[RichardL]

Here you go: Black Titanium Bolts (http://www.torontocycles.com/Selling/Black_Titanium_Bolts.html)

According to the website, "Black Titanium Fasteners are produced by a special process know as Physical Vapor Deposition. This coating is very durable and will not fade or chip."