Custom stem rec? (threadless road)

[carpediemracing]

I tried searching since I figured this forum would be a good resource but I couldn't isolate any threads on custom stems. My question: what is a good source for a totally custom road stem. Threadless road. Material doesn't matter as much as the customization and the stiffness. Cost in the $200-250 range. I want to go 3 cm lower with the same reach compared to a 65 deg 14 cm stem so realistically I'm looking at some weird angle stem at 15 or 16 cm. I'm going to draw it out on paper and use a protractor for angle calculation but haven't done it yet.

tl;dr below

I've tried for a year now to figure out a good bar to replace my getting-old crit bend bars from 3ttt. I'd like to have some versatile bar that's easy to buy. The idea was to have an easy-to-replace cockpit if something happens but my current stem, a 65 deg 14 cm stem, isn't easy to get. Therefore I decided that the stem can be hard to replace if the bar wasn't.

I really like the FSA Wing compact bar, an aluminum shallow drop bar. Great drops shape, great feel when sprinting.

The problem is that the bars are too high (at the drops) when using a 65 deg stem. They're too high by 3 cm.

I tried to find a 15 cm drop bar but don't like the shape of the drops and I prefer to have the levers a bit lower relative to the drops, i.e. like a shallow drop bar.

I'm willing to go 3 cm lower on the hoods and tops. I've already gone 2 cm further out on the tops and that was great (going from a 12 cm stem + 3ttt Gimondi bars to 14 cm stem + FSA Energy bars).

I already have a 9.5 cm head tube on a custom frame and so I really can't go much shorter without spending a wad of money that I don't want to spend.

So the question remains: What is a reasonable priced custom stem, $200-250 max, that's stiff. The only one that seems to fit my requirements is by Ti Cycles, they offer a steel stem at $200 or so. I can't justify $400-500 for a stem.

[rileystylee]

Winter bicycles:

http://www.winterbicycles.com/

steelman cycles

http://www.steelmancycles.com/stems.html

[merckx]

second the Winter recommendation.

[Mikej]

i think firefly's are in the 350 range.

[FlashUNC]

I had a quill stem done by Eric at Winter. It was outstanding.

Call him.

[AngryScientist]

I really like the FSA Wing compact bar, an aluminum shallow drop bar. Great drops shape, great feel when sprinting.

The problem is that the bars are too high (at the drops) when using a 65 deg stem. They're too high by 3 cm.



cdr:

this is unsolicited advice i know, but realistically you're going about this from the wrong angle [pun; intended].

the FSA omega bars are billed as a short and shallow bar. if you feel that the drops are not "deep" enough, the FSA bar is just wrong for you. in fact, it's one of the most compact on the market. a custom slammed stem with a super compact bar like the FSA will just look silly, and be a bad compromise. surely there is a bar with a similar reach to the FSA bar with a deeper drop, no?

dont take that the wrong way though, just some suggestions to chew on.

[zetroc]

Consider Sean Walling at Soulcraft:

http://www.soulcraftbikes.com/stems.php

[David Kirk]

Winter.

dave

[carpediemracing]

cdr:

this is unsolicited advice i know, but realistically you're going about this from the wrong angle [pun; intended].

the FSA omega bars are billed as a short and shallow bar. if you feel that the drops are not "deep" enough, the FSA bar is just wrong for you. in fact, it's one of the most compact on the market. a custom slammed stem with a super compact bar like the FSA will just look silly, and be a bad compromise. surely there is a bar with a similar reach to the FSA bar with a deeper drop, no?

dont take that the wrong way though, just some suggestions to chew on.

No worries on the feedback.

Right now I'm on FSA Energy bars, 15cm drop vs the 12 cm for the FSA Wing Compact. I even bought two Energy bars for the two bikes. The problem is that the drops aren't the right shape and no matter how I fiddle with the position it doesn't work. I feel really awkward sprinting on the drops.

The drops on the FSA (Wing) Compact work well for my hands. Same reach but 12 cm drop. The short drop gives the drops a nice feel, especially in relation to the shifters. I have a bar and I keep putting it back on, hoping that I can make it work (you should see all the stems I bought).

I haven't ridden it in a few months though. When I put the 15 cm drop Energy bars on the bike it was really nice when seated. Out of the saddle not so great but in the saddle... well my back problems eased considerably in the week or two after I put the bars on.

A friend (we've ridden together since 1995 and he's definitely into bikes, the biz, etc) recommended looking at some of the newer non-ergo deep drop short reach bars, like Zipp or similar. I'm not in a position to try out a bazillion bars though. In addition all of those would have the shifters pretty high up on the bar, at least compared to the Compacts, and I really like the way the shifters are so close to my hand on the Compacts.

Timewise I think it'll be most efficient to get a stem that places the mount point in the right place for a compact bar (8cm reach, 12cm drop). Then I can use a number of different bars, all falling within the general fit range of the FSA bars. If it works out I'll get at least another stem, for my other essentially-the-same bike, so I have two bikes with two identical set ups.

Another push in the stem direction - I like the longer position to the tops when I went from a 12 cm stem to a 14 cm stem. I suspect the same will be true with the 3 cm lower position, based on my own "trials" on the trainer.

I drew what I needed on a piece of paper. I don't know the angle (can't find my protractor) but the stem will be 14.3cm c-c. Not a massive difference. Over 14 cm of horizontal reach it's not bad at all.

I actually appreciate unsolicited advice. I try to think outside the box and I welcome any feedback to the ideas I have.

[Anarchist]

Does your bike fit you properly?

[weehastogopee]

http://www.yamaguchibike.com/content/Components

[carpediemracing]

Does your bike fit you properly?

Yes. I have short legs, long torso, so my bike ends up long in length and short in height. I had the bike built around my then-current cockpit, a 12 cm stem with a 40 cm 3ttt Gimondi bar. The builder was limited to a minimum head tube length, which is what I have. It works with 3ttt bars but I have been trying to wean myself out of the 90s (I'm also changing saddles from the old Titanio to SLRs).

The most important thing for me, I realized, is the drops-BB relationship - when out of the saddle sprinting that's the only thing that determines where the bars are relative to the BB. I can get my bike to fit well when I'm sitting but when I'm out of the saddle I learned that am really sensitive to differences. Most fit dimensions relate to where the stem/bar intersect, not where the drops are relative to the pedals.

I also want to keep the drops about the same relative to the front axle. I like the drops in front of the axle. I was thinking of commissioning a frame that was 3 cm longer but then I realized that I wouldn't be as far forward over the axle. In fact I could do that for the cost of a couple (more expensive) custom stems.

I really like the compact bar feel. I like that they're more available than a 3ttt Gimondi bar, that they feel much stiffer, and that I can get to the shifters easily. Even though they lose 3 cm in reach and 3 cm in drop (with what appears to be a corresponding back issue that popped up while riding the bars for 5 months) I liked the shape so much I want to make them work. Therefore I need to clamp them in the right place relative to the BB/saddle/etc.

My black bike with 73 deg 12 cm stem, 3ttt Gimondi (actually I think it has the Mavic bars on it) and my red bike with a 70 deg 14 cm stem and the FSA Wing Compact bars.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yVszbCsm9as/UWgFV-hXfuI/AAAAAAAAE2g/au678ML1IGU/s800/DSC_0605.JPG

Red bike with FSA Energy bars. You can see how much lower the drops are, based on where the tire sits compared to the bar.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ZM9YyPvy2AY/UgBWp_H2SyI/AAAAAAAAFZE/Aqb6CIHZNDw/s800/DSC_0501.JPG

[carpediemracing]

Update. I went with Steelman Bikes, very nice process (except when FedEx delivered the stem to the wrong street), unfinished, will do a low buck finish later. Due to time constraints I'm riding the stem unfinished for now.

Stem after unpacking it.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BwBNsNyCBws/UrUG4A7jpZI/AAAAAAAAFx8/TxOE1sEnmjc/s800/DSC_0924-mod.JPG

A very distorted picture that exaggerates the drop of the stem. When I'm on the bike I don't notice it, meaning nothing seems weird.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Cc5W7KwL0tI/UrUExnguIfI/AAAAAAAAFxs/gUAFgACyS-8/s800/20131220_TroubleCreek-Bike.jpg

So far so good. In terms of being a stem it's a bit heavier than my prior stem (I don't remember the prior stem's weight so no details there). It seems like it might be a touch more flexible. It holds the bar and steerer tube nicely.

As far as fit I'll put out a disclaimer. I've been pretty sick. Junior (21 months old) has also been sick so I haven't been sleeping well since I'm usually the one that wakes up for him. Last night I got about 3 hours of sleep before he and I were up from 2:20 AM - 5 AM, I woke up again at up at 6 AM, then got ready and did a hard-for-me 2.75 hour group ride. Due to the long night my back was super stiff when I got on the bike. After about an hour I was feeling pretty good on the bike, felt comfortably "in" it. By the end of the ride my back had loosened up nicely. No real jumps but I was so cooked from the relentless pace that I couldn't have done a true jump to test the stem under duress.

Looking forward to seeing how things progress. The tops and hoods are 3 cm lower and it's noticeable. It makes me prefer the drops even more since it gets uncomfortable when I'm on the hoods (especially) or the tops (tolerable).

[oldpotatoe]

I tried searching since I figured this forum would be a good resource but I couldn't isolate any threads on custom stems. My question: what is a good source for a totally custom road stem. Threadless road. Material doesn't matter as much as the customization and the stiffness. Cost in the $200-250 range. I want to go 3 cm lower with the same reach compared to a 65 deg 14 cm stem so realistically I'm looking at some weird angle stem at 15 or 16 cm. I'm going to draw it out on paper and use a protractor for angle calculation but haven't done it yet.

tl;dr below

I've tried for a year now to figure out a good bar to replace my getting-old crit bend bars from 3ttt. I'd like to have some versatile bar that's easy to buy. The idea was to have an easy-to-replace cockpit if something happens but my current stem, a 65 deg 14 cm stem, isn't easy to get. Therefore I decided that the stem can be hard to replace if the bar wasn't.

I really like the FSA Wing compact bar, an aluminum shallow drop bar. Great drops shape, great feel when sprinting.

The problem is that the bars are too high (at the drops) when using a 65 deg stem. They're too high by 3 cm.

I tried to find a 15 cm drop bar but don't like the shape of the drops and I prefer to have the levers a bit lower relative to the drops, i.e. like a shallow drop bar.

I'm willing to go 3 cm lower on the hoods and tops. I've already gone 2 cm further out on the tops and that was great (going from a 12 cm stem + 3ttt Gimondi bars to 14 cm stem + FSA Energy bars).

I already have a 9.5 cm head tube on a custom frame and so I really can't go much shorter without spending a wad of money that I don't want to spend.

So the question remains: What is a reasonable priced custom stem, $200-250 max, that's stiff. The only one that seems to fit my requirements is by Ti Cycles, they offer a steel stem at $200 or so. I can't justify $400-500 for a stem.

Sean Waling at

Soulcraft

http://www.soulcraftbikes.com/stems.php

[fuzzalow]

However much torso length you have is all rotated forwards and down: zero setback post; saddle slammed forwards; long stem and bars set way down (...below the ocean, where I want to be, she may be...). From the picture of your bike next to the Armco, your new setup looks to run about 9cm or 10cm of saddle to bar drop.

That is most definitely an out of the ordinary setup and rotates most of the weight over the front-center of the bike. As long as the handling is not adversely affected, then it works for you. I applaud your tenacity in getting to a solution that reflects thinking outside the box.

Just keep in mind you still have limited options that will maintain your same body geometry in rotating either clockwise or anti-clockwise around the bottom bracket. I say this not for the purpose in suggesting you alter your setup, but in pointing out for tweaking and fine-tuning you have limited to no additional adjustability possible in the contact point elements forwards of the bottom bracket. But the saddle position is not set in stone and if you need a few millimeters you will take those millimeters from the saddle rails. There is nothing wrong with getting the additional 1-2 or 3mm with a saddle setback adjustment and a 2mm spacer raising the bars and rotating your entire body geo rearwards over the back wheel a smidge.

Take adjustability wherever you can get it because it is always better the bike fit the rider rather than the rider fit the bike.

[ColonelJLloyd]

I hope the front brake doesn't grab. :eek:

[tv_vt]

Holy mackerel, you must be limber, CPR. That is some drop you have there.

I wonder what a custom 650c frame could do for you. Not sure if that would result in a better setup or not. But it sure looks to me like a frame w/700c wheels isn't the best design for you.

[bluesea]

He's a born sprinter, mang.

[54ny77]

well, looks like you can now comfortably reach down and pick up stray quarters by the roadside while on training rides. get fit, make money. a win-win!

;)

p.s. are you going to run the bethel crits next year?

p.s.s. for those that don't know, the op here runs a terrific event series that while i've not experienced personally, i have heard nothing but compliments about the organization and venue. one day i'd love to be able to participate.

[carpediemracing]

To respond to a few posts:

1. I'm not limber. I'm actually very unlimber, can barely touch my toes. It's a huge reason for the odd position - I need to be pretty bent over in order to be comfortable. If I have to hold myself up a bit then my back hurts really bad, really quickly. For example if a sink is just a few inches further inboard of the counter and I have to lean over to do dishes it's a good 2-3 minutes before I'm staggering away from the sink.

2. Re: sprinting, yes, that's the only thing I can do. My best ever TT was 23 mph and I'm usually dropped on climbs, even by riders in Florida and Michigan and other "flat" areas. Unfortunately my sprint has been deteriorating significantly and now it's no longer that good.

3. I did two more rides since I took that picture. One was a group ride (in flat Florida) and I was absolutely demolished. Our Junior was up at 2 AM and regularly after that, I couldn't get back to sleep until 5, and when I got up at 6:30 my back was really stiff. It took maybe an hour before my back loosened up and the second half of the ride I was on the drops most of the time, as comfortable as I could be. (I was so demolished I sat up when they sprinted for a line).

4. The second ride was today and I went out to explore the sprint handling of the bike. Luckily I was able to do some wind assisted sprints. The bike felt absolutely rock solid under 100% effort, even over some rougher pavement. The front wheel got air over one dip each sprint yet the bike felt totally under control as the front wheel landed here and there. Unfortunately I wasn't strong enough to explore the fun side of 40 mph but the front end was great up to max speed (which was about 40 mph). This stability was a big worry for me even though the drops are where I expected them to be because when the drops were higher the bike felt so unstable that I'd almost lose control at times. I was much more planted with the lower drops. The weird route between the drops and the fork worried me but it was okay, the position was important, not the method of reaching it.

(I look down and want a Gitane-Renault-Elf-TT-bike-ish head tube with the stem sticking out. This would be a more efficient use of tubing. The other is to have a BMC speed bike like fork where there is an external portion of steerer tube in front of the head tube - the stem/bar-clamp could be mounted off of that.)

5. Bethel - one tenant has complained formally (teaches me to announce when I ask the town for permission - I won't do that any more, I'll wait until I have permission before opening my mouth). That tenant has not responded to my calls and emails. Therefore I don't know what his specific problems were and what I can do to handle them. I'll be in that area over the last weekend of the year so I'll visit in person and see what the deal is. He's formerly a strong supporter of the race so I don't know what happened, what I did, etc.