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oldpotatoe
10-21-2013, 08:02 AM
Tough racers but...looking at the pix, what's 'striking' about a lot of the bikes ridden?

Just curious.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/uci-cyclo-cross-world-cup-1-2013/elite-women/photos

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/uci-cyclo-cross-world-cup-1-2013/elite-men/photos

nooneline
10-21-2013, 08:14 AM
Yeah, most riders are still using cantis and mechanical shifting - is that what you're getting at?

Auk
10-21-2013, 08:16 AM
Could it be that you don't need disc brakes to ride really damn fast when there's mud?

thwart
10-21-2013, 08:17 AM
Seem to be using those antique, quaint (you remember 'em, right?) cantilever brakes...

oldpotatoe
10-21-2013, 08:19 AM
Yeah, most riders are still using cantis and mechanical shifting - is that what you're getting at?

Just curious, not trying to start a fight. Even a local guy who is big in US cross has sram 22 with wet discs...

These are sponsored riders, the difference between the fields in the US and Europe, equipment wise, seem to be very different.

batman1425
10-21-2013, 08:20 AM
The winner of the mens race was on discs, one of the few that was from the pics that I saw.

nooneline
10-21-2013, 08:22 AM
Yeah.
Well, Lars won on hydro discs; there's some adoption but with cross being hard on bikes - as much in the travel and cleaning as in the actual riding - I think a lot of people are sticking with what they know.

Riders are sponsored, sure, but in Europe a lot of sponsored riders can still have their say. Didn't Ridley go over to discs entirely? But Telenet is still on cantis.

Likes2ridefar
10-21-2013, 08:28 AM
I was talking to a mechanic for these types of racers last week, and he said many have no interest in discs for a few reasons.

1) first and least important, it adds more weight to the frames in certain areas
2) it's far easier to ding the rotor and bend it having a nice rub the rest of the race or simply accumulate mud or grit and hear it screeching the rest of the race. even if it's not much if any resistance it's still more than they have with canti's and it can take a toll mentally over time.
3) they don't like the additional power with minimal lever pull

oldpotatoe
10-21-2013, 08:36 AM
I was talking to a mechanic for these types of racers last week, and he said many have no interest in discs for a few reasons.

1) first and least important, it adds more weight to the frames in certain areas
2) it's far easier to ding the rotor and bend it having a nice rub the rest of the race or simply accumulate mud or grit and hear it screeching the rest of the race. even if it's not much if any resistance it's still more than they have with canti's and it can take a toll mentally over time.
3) they don't like the additional power with minimal lever pull

Thanks...any Euro cross team wrenches here?

I have the above from a gent who races for Moots also....

AngryScientist
10-21-2013, 08:45 AM
i dont know anything about disks, but just curious: i would think disk brakes could be a disadvantage for quick wheel changes too correct?

Likes2ridefar
10-21-2013, 08:56 AM
i dont know anything about disks, but just curious: i would think disk brakes could be a disadvantage for quick wheel changes too correct?

if anything, they are probably faster, but since the tolerance is so tight the risk of rub is greater.

and then you run the risk of slamming the rotor into the pads upon insertion which will probably screw up the pad alignment.

oldpotatoe
10-21-2013, 08:56 AM
i dont know anything about disks, but just curious: i would think disk brakes could be a disadvantage for quick wheel changes too correct?

Could be but most of the racers at this level have pit crews that do that for them, with bike in a stand. Speed isn't an issue, since the cross 'big boys' have a fleet of spare bikes and a legion of pit wrenches.

gavingould
10-21-2013, 09:59 AM
the Euros are pretty resistant to changing over to disc except the younger guys, Van der Haar most certainly is at 22.
Even the ones who are very familiar with discs from the mountain bike side (Nys went to Olympics for mtb) are not embracing them. i'd expect to see more disc next year as some of the bike manufacturers phase out canti models entirely and Shimano's hydro/Di2 is fully on the market.
men and women winners were both on Di2, one on the hydro disc. seems pretty clear to me where things are headed.

wheel changing speed is a non-issue in pro 'cross. usually they have 3 full bikes each and 6-8 full wheelsets with various different treads, 2 or three pit crew members... they nail down which treads and tire pressure in pre-ride and generally have all three bikes set up the same. get a flat on the A bike, take the B bike from pit. if the rider needs to pit again before the wheel can be swapped, take the C bike.

KonaSS
10-21-2013, 12:57 PM
Give it time. The bigs in Euro-land are always the last adopters. In mtb, which I follow, they are just getting on 29ers in a big way in the last year.

I am too lazy to look it up but you probably could have still found V-brakes on mountain bikes for the Euro crowd in the 2005-2006 timeframes.

45K10
10-21-2013, 04:50 PM
Off topic concerning the brakes, but I just wanted to point out that all of the World Cup races this year are being streamed live on the UCI's youtube channel. http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCloqTh1nPpW13LCntQglS-Q

I watched the mens race yesterday and the stream quality was very good and they have the re-runs loaded the next day.

deluxerider
10-21-2013, 04:54 PM
I don't understand why there seems to be some differentiation between disc brakes on CX bikes and disc brakes on mtb bikes. No one is saying that cantilever brakes are better on mtb bikes. Discs are the standard and if you aren't riding them on your mtb your behind the times and I feel that mtb riding is harder on equipment than cx riding. I cannot imagine Old Potato recommending cantis for a customers mtb. The problem is mechanical disc brakes which cannot adjust for pad wear automatically. Hydraulic road brake levers weren't really on the scene at Wisco CX Nats last year and if they were I think the opinion of disc brakes on CX bikes would be that they are the new standard for cross as well. I did a very muddy cx race in the rain yesterday and I ride mechanical discs. I could tell that the brake pads were wearing. After the race I asked my teammate how his brakes did. He's riding SRAM hydros and he said the performance was great. The pads were adjusting for wear whereas mine were not. In conclusion, if you can go hydraulic disc for cross I think you'll never again think about cantilever brakes.

gavingould
10-21-2013, 06:37 PM
USA cross fans - the UCI YouTube stream was blocked in the US yesterday when I tried to watch.
Resorted to the usual means of finding a working stream on cyclingfans...
However I was informed of a browser plugin called Hola (for Firefox and Chrome I believe) that will let you appear as though you are in a different country.

nooneline
10-21-2013, 06:45 PM
oh man. many thanks for the tip about hola. can't wait to use it.

Gummee
10-21-2013, 10:16 PM
J. Page is on the same version of the Altamira CX I'm riding. No discs there either.

I think we're seeing a 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' situation with the pros. I heard rumors Nys was testing a disc-equipped Colnago, but he's still on cantis.

M

1X10
10-22-2013, 05:10 AM
North of the border the UCI You Tube feed worked a charm...I prefer watching via the boot legged Belgium feeds so I can try to comprehend some busted up Flemish dialect, but can never seem to hold 60 min straight via one feed...:)

Oh well, take what one gets...:)

in regards to brake choices, IMHO VdH rode a solid 60+ using disc equipped...Home crowd and engine counts also, but if you closely followed him where the braking counted their is no doubt his control gave him a few seconds here and there...That is all that is needed on a 10-12 lap event...

Check out some replays of that off camber/rutted descent in the slop...He was good:hello: really good:hello:

oldpotatoe
10-22-2013, 08:43 AM
I don't understand why there seems to be some differentiation between disc brakes on CX bikes and disc brakes on mtb bikes. No one is saying that cantilever brakes are better on mtb bikes. Discs are the standard and if you aren't riding them on your mtb your behind the times and I feel that mtb riding is harder on equipment than cx riding. I cannot imagine Old PotatoE recommending catis for a customers mtb. The problem is mechanical disc brakes which cannot adjust for pad wear automatically. Hydraulic road brake levers weren't really on the scene at Wisco CX Nats last year and if they were I think the opinion of disc brakes on CX bikes would be that they are the new standard for cross as well. I did a very muddy cx race in the rain yesterday and I ride mechanical discs. I could tell that the brake pads were wearing. After the race I asked my teammate how his brakes did. He's riding SRAM hydros and he said the performance was great. The pads were adjusting for wear whereas mine were not. In conclusion, if you can go hydraulic disc for cross I think you'll never again think about cantilever brakes.

The big boys in Euro Corss 'can' go to wet discs right now..

There are mechanical discs now that push from both sides of the pads and self adjust. TRP being one.

Except ya gotta put that bike on your shoulder and run...for cross.

As for a MTB with Vs..since no fork made today has canti studs. But for 'some', who want a dirt road bike, path bike, maybe single speed, no mud, no rain, no roacks, would I maybe recommend a simplier, lighter, frame with 'Vs, maybe..maybe even a rigid fork as well..considering what they may use the bike for but....

Auk
10-22-2013, 09:00 AM
Look at the J.Powers bike profile from cyclingnews a week or so ago. Now running full disc setup and the bike, which is otherwise unchanged from last year, is shown to be 460 grams heavier than his old bikes. So, roughly a pound. Close the gap more and you'll see the euros more apt to embrace it.

oldpotatoe
10-22-2013, 09:09 AM
Look at the J.Powers bike profile from cyclingnews a week or so ago. Now running full disc setup and the bike, which is otherwise unchanged from last year, is shown to be 460 grams heavier than his old bikes. So, roughly a pound. Close the gap more and you'll see the euros more apt to embrace it.

And as I mentioned, in this kinda fringe sport, even in Europe, more sponsor $ to some of these guys that see a short-ish season..those that cross only.

Sure, they will be all 11s, lotsa electronic, wet discs...for good or ill. Having a pit, spare bikes and wrenches makes up for a lot of 'weaknesses' of 11s, electronic and wet discs.