Chain Issue

[NickR]

I’ve build up a new to me Serotta TG with a 5700 groupset & compact crank and been riding it for the past month (a couple hundred miles). I’ve snapped the chain twice (Shimano 105 5700 chain). I think the culprit is the FD brazed-on type, IIRC the FD prior to breaking has rubbed on the chain for a short period. This last occasion, I couldn’t shift out of the small ring, shifter seemed stuck. I eventually was able to shift to the big ring and shortly after the chain snapped. 1) Is the chain compromised and I just get a new chain. 2) How do I avoid the chain snapping in the future?

I’ve used several types of chains from 10 speed DA & 9 speed without any of them breaking on me .

[AgilisMerlin]

Can you post a picture of the chain, where it broke

/ both sides

curious

thanks

K

[Louis]

Why / how would a small amount of F-der rubbing cause a chain to fail?

[lhuerta]

...unless you are shifting under extreme load and really trying to jam the shift, which I will assume you are not, then the front der is not the likely cause. The more obvious culprit is a link pin that was not installed correctly. Also, a chain that is too short together with cross chaining can result in undue stress to chain.

We need more info: Post a pic of chain so we can see where the chain has failed? Post a sideview pic of bike, with chain on small/small, so we can assess whether chain length is correct ? What type of chain are you installing (brand/speed)?
Lou

[bargainguy]

I suppose if an FD bent a pin and then the chain was put under pressure like sudden acceleration, it could snap the pin. I can't see a plate breaking, though, unless something else was going on. This one is new to me, never heard of it before.

[ultraman6970]

I have to ask the same than other forumites, where did it snap?? are you using a missing link or are you just using the tool or what ever shimano uses to close the chain??

IMO there is no way in hell for the FD to worn or compromise a fairly new chain that much that it snaps, in a matter of fact there is more chance to bend the FD cage or snap a chainring teeth than cut a chain. Well known that some rides are having the same rubbing problem for years and the chain never snaps, specially people with low end bikes.

IMO the chain is usable, but this time I would get a missing link from KMC or even a wipperman, as for the problem shifting up the chainring who knows what are you doing (dont take it in bad mood, just can't say it in another way), could be a FD cage that is in the wrong position (shimano back in the day liked them like 1 degree in diagonal, if it was set straight as campagnolo ones they up shifting was really bad), since no more information is provided hard to know because chains generally do not fail unless you really have bad luck, in your case would be good if you play lotto or something because the chances to be hit twice are really small, my best guess is that the FD is not set correctly.

good luck.

ps: sincerely ok? don't ever, never never never never never never never never never never never never EVER use the pin they give you, you have go with a missing link even all the documentation says that shimano will send the 7 sins, godzilla and all the hell over you if you don't use their stuff.

[NickR]

Can you post a picture of the chain, where it broke

/ both sides

curious

thanks

K

...unless you are shifting under extreme load and really trying to jam the shift, which I will assume you are not, then the front der is not the likely cause. The more obvious culprit is a link pin that was not installed correctly. Also, a chain that is too short together with cross chaining can result in undue stress to chain.

We need more info: Post a pic of chain so we can see where the chain has failed? Post a sideview pic of bike, with chain on small/small, so we can assess whether chain length is correct ? What type of chain are you installing (brand/speed)?
Lou

Let me rephrase it, the pin is separating from the plate. I’ll take pictures when I get home, from what a could tell the plate wasn’t broken, just separated from the pin, but who knows since it could of falling off.

The first time it was from a dead stop, started to pedal and a few strokes later the chain fell off. Second time was after a hill and was coasting down and noticed the lack of tension.

[AgilisMerlin]

wrong pin, my quess.

just a thought

[eddief]

are using Shimano pins to join the two ends of the chain? If yes, then it sounds like you are not doing it correctly. If not and you are using a quick snap link of some sort, then you got another problem. Don't think it's the front d or the crank.

[AgilisMerlin]

As in a nine sp pin

[NickR]

Well known that some rides are having the same rubbing problem for years and the chain never snaps, specially people with low end bikes. Same here my other commuter has bar ends and chain has rub many of times with out issue.

as for the problem shifting up the chainring who knows what are you doing (dont take it in bad mood, just can't say it in another way), could be a FD cage that is in the wrong position (shimano back in the day liked them like 1 degree in diagonal, if it was set straight as campagnolo ones they up shifting was really bad) That's what i suspect a FD position. I've read it somewhere were some one was having shifting issues with a compact crank & older braze on frame. My 7800 shifting is smooth compared to the 5700, but since the consensus is that the x700 group was a downgrade from 7800 didn't give it much though.

ps: sincerely ok? don't ever, never never never never never never never never never never never never EVER use the pin they give you, you have go with a missing link even all the documentation says that shimano will send the 7 sins, godzilla and all the hell over you if you don't use their stuff. LOL

[NickR]

We need more info: Post a pic of chain so we can see where the chain has failed? Post a sideview pic of bike, with chain on small/small, so we can assess whether chain length is correct ? What type of chain are you installing (brand/speed)?
Lou same has the groupset 105 5700. below are the pictures requested. From what I've read the chain currently installed wrong. I'm pretty sure it wasn't the case till now, since i remember bean able to read the brand/model before.

More pics here http://www.flickr.com/photos/18148125@N07/with/10355036484/

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5525/10355000436_45c1943ff3_c.jpg (http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5525/10355000436_45c1943ff3_c.jpg IMAG0069 by ntrodriguez, on Flickr)
IMAG0069 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/18148125@N07/10355000436/) by ntrodriguez (http://www.flickr.com/people/18148125@N07/), on Flickr

Outer chain
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7423/10355229583_78c721f2a5_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/18148125@N07/10355229583/)
IMAG0142 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/18148125@N07/10355229583/) by ntrodriguez (http://www.flickr.com/people/18148125@N07/), on Flickr

Inner chain
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7382/10355025076_0aa7aac6d2_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/18148125@N07/10355025076/)
IMAG0151 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/18148125@N07/10355025076/) by ntrodriguez (http://www.flickr.com/people/18148125@N07/), on Flickr

Crankset
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2810/10355036484_e53f0e3253_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/18148125@N07/10355036484/)
IMAG0144 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/18148125@N07/10355036484/) by ntrodriguez (http://www.flickr.com/people/18148125@N07/), on Flickr

[Louis]

I think the requests were for pictures of the failed chain. I don't see any failures in what you've currently posted.

[KidWok]

Yup...chain needs to be flipped so text is facing out.

Tai

[lhuerta]

Yup...chain needs to be flipped so text is facing out.

Tai

+1, correct, the 5700 is an asymmetrical chain and "shimano" name should be on outside, however, I am not convinced the incorrect direction of chain install would cause the issue. Based on the flick pics, your chain length looks fine and your frt der height looks fine too (but not sure if it is flared), but pics don't show said damage to the link. Is it the master link that is failing?
Lou

[NickR]

Based on the flick pics, your chain length looks fine and your frt der height looks fine too (but not sure if it is flared)
Not sure what flared means??

but pics don't show said damage to the link. Is it the master link that is failing?
Lou Not from what i could tell, my LBS installed it. The chain failed in two separate locations at the link pin and the lbs installed quick links pictured above.

[AgilisMerlin]

just answered your question:

Not from what i could tell, my LBS installed it. The chain failed in two separate locations at the link pin and the lbs installed quick links pictured above." :eek:

go have a diplomatic conversation,

[oldpotatoe]

I’ve build up a new to me Serotta TG with a 5700 groupset & compact crank and been riding it for the past month (a couple hundred miles). I’ve snapped the chain twice (Shimano 105 5700 chain). I think the culprit is the FD brazed-on type, IIRC the FD prior to breaking has rubbed on the chain for a short period. This last occasion, I couldn’t shift out of the small ring, shifter seemed stuck. I eventually was able to shift to the big ring and shortly after the chain snapped. 1) Is the chain compromised and I just get a new chain. 2) How do I avoid the chain snapping in the future?

I’ve used several types of chains from 10 speed DA & 9 speed without any of them breaking on me .

Did you install the chain as per the instructions and use the supplied pin into the 'virgin' plate, into the outside plate using a proper tool?

ANY modern chain, not installed correctly, as in taking a pin, pushing it out, then pushing it in, will result n a broken chain. wasn't your FD or crank or chainrings.

[ultraman6970]

You gave the answer many were expecting, looks like the thing snapped in the join link position... as i said before, never never never never never EVER use the darn pin they give you, a missing link will make your life way better from day one, never seen a missing link busted, super reliable stuff that has been in the market from back in the mid 80s beginning 90s, Even got surprised that shimano and capagnolo are still using their links when the missing links had been around for so long, even the 1st ones for road bikes I saw were shimano back when 105 sc was introduced, 1 step forward 10 steps back if shimano is not still using their own creation (missing links for road). Track had been using them since forever.

If what the kids here say is true that the chain is unidirectional and they put it backwards then you really have a problem and would be good for you to start doing the simple stuff yourself or trying to find another shop where to spend your money. Sometimes is better not even bother having a serious conversation with the owner of the shop, specially when they give the task to the new guy, if it was done by the senior mechanic then they have a serious problem.

If I was you I would just move to KMC chains and install them myself but no idea how good are you with mechanics.

Good luck.

ps: the chainrings you have in there are stamped, they tend to flex a lot in some brands and probably that contributed to your problem, as for the FD flared, well I can't tell from the pictures...

Not sure what flared means??

Not from what i could tell, my LBS installed it. The chain failed in two separate locations at the link pin and the lbs installed quick links pictured above.

[oldpotatoe]

You gave the answer many were expecting, looks like the thing snapped in the join link position... as i said before, never never never never never EVER use the darn pin they give you, a missing link will make your life way better from day one, never seen a missing link busted, super reliable stuff that has been in the market from back in the mid 80s beginning 90s, Even got surprised that shimano and capagnolo are still using their links when the missing links had been around for so long, even the 1st ones for road bikes I saw were shimano back when 105 sc was introduced, 1 step forward 10 steps back if shimano is not still using their own creation (missing links for road). Track had been using them since forever.

If what the kids here say is true that the chain is unidirectional and they put it backwards then you really have a problem and would be good for you to start doing the simple stuff yourself or trying to find another shop where to spend your money. Sometimes is better not even bother having a serious conversation with the owner of the shop, specially when they give the task to the new guy, if it was done by the senior mechanic then they have a serious problem.

If I was you I would just move to KMC chains and install them myself but no idea how good are you with mechanics.

Good luck.

ps: the chainrings you have in there are stamped, they tend to flex a lot in some brands and probably that contributed to your problem, as for the FD flared, well I can't tell from the pictures...

????
When I install shimano chains for the first time, when new I always use the pin. I install correct direction and orientation as to the pulling plates and install the pin into the outboard plate section, the one out of the package..and I have never had one break there. So your 'never, never' never' comment really only applies if you don't read the instructions and install the thing the incorrect way.

When I take it off to clean, then I do install with a connex link but using the pin corrrectly, with shimano or Campagnolo chains, is no big deal. if done right. If done wrong-broken chain.

[ultraman6970]

The only reason I say never ever is just because easiness opening the chain and because I have seen even campy ones snap, cut the chain... put the missing link and done :P

[NickR]

Did you install the chain as per the instructions and use the supplied pin into the 'virgin' plate, into the outside plate using a proper tool? My LBS did the initial install and repairs.

ANY modern chain, not installed correctly, as in taking a pin, pushing it out, then pushing it in, will result n a broken chain. This is what I'm starting to lean towards. I dropped off two frames, one to build up and the other to remove the HS & BB. They builded up the second frame the first time.

Sometimes is better not even bother having a serious conversation with the owner of the shop, specially when they give the task to the new guy, if it was done by the senior mechanic then they have a serious problem. Funny that you mention that, they did get a new guy around that time. I "know the owner" so I'll talk to him, I'll find out how good "friends" we are.

When I take it off to clean, then I do install with a connex link but using the pin corrrectly, with shimano or Campagnolo chains, is no big deal. if done right. If done wrong-broken chain. Just want to get to the bottom of the issue. while taking pictures, I noticed that the ring teeth aren't uniformed. Some teeth seem to be shorter/worn down unevenly. Couldn't capture it with my cell, could that also be part of the issue? Don't want to push my luck, since I've escaped both times injury free.

[KidWok]

Just want to get to the bottom of the issue. while taking pictures, I noticed that the ring teeth aren't uniformed. Some teeth seem to be shorter/worn down unevenly.

They aren't supposed to be uniform...they are designed that way on purpose to enhance shifting.

Tai

[Louis]

while taking pictures, I noticed that the ring teeth aren't uniformed. Some teeth seem to be shorter/worn down unevenly. Couldn't capture it with my cell, could that also be part of the issue? Don't want to push my luck, since I've escaped both times injury free.

1) Brand new chain rings (not the small ones, but the big ones where you have to shift up to them) come with variations in tooth profiles. This is to assist with the shift from smaller to bigger.

2) Those profile variations are not the cause of your problems with the chain failing.

Edit: Looks like Tai and I posted the same thing at the same time.

[NickR]

go have a diplomatic conversation,

They aren't supposed to be uniform...they are designed that way on purpose to enhance shifting.

Tai

1) Brand new chain rings (not the small ones, but the big ones where you have to shift up to them) come with variations in tooth profiles. This is to assist with the shift from smaller to bigger.

2) Those profile variations are not the cause of your problems with the chain failing.

Edit: Looks like Tai and I posted the same thing at the same time.

Thanks guys for all the help, time for a new chain and put this behind me.

Nick

[ultraman6970]

Kmc

[NickR]

New chain installed, forgot to check which one an pretty sure is 5700 series. What a difference it make, shifting is so much smoother and the drive train is quiet.