Moots DR

[jpw]

http://moots.com/our-bike/road/vamoots-dr-disc-road/geometry/

why the need for such steep top tube slopes on this new model?

[earlfoss]

I agree with you. The Moots top tube slope is too extreme for me. IMO it makes the bike look weird.

[christian]

Ugly.

[tuscanyswe]

For me the Serotta 7 degree slope was just a tad too much. This is unfortunately not very nice looking at all :cool:

[Steve in SLO]

Agree that it isn't beautiful, although I think the rationale might be that it is a bike designed for wider (taller) tires, and may be used as an all road bike where extra stanover is useful.

[tuscanyswe]

Perhaps but they could have just dropped the bb a few mm instead and still have a bike that looks proper (imo ofc).

So the stock enve road disc fork take 29mm tires?

[donevwil]

Steep TT allows for a longer seatpost. They've also made the ST accept 27.2 which, together with one of their Ti posts, will yield some legit rear suspension.

[corky]

mountain bike......


Moots used to be gorgeously proportioned ..... not now, not my cup o' char thats for sure...:no:

[FlashUNC]

http://inrng.com/medias/img/giantonce.jpg

[pdmtong]

you guys are all traditionalists...given the design goals, this pops out looking like a mtb skinnied for road, as opposed to a road fattened for dirt.

[crownjewelwl]

same tt slope as a psychlo-x

i kinda like it

[RacerJRP]

Not a fan of a lot of slope..Having my new Ti frame built with 3.5* slope. Was originally at 5.5* and I thought that was a little too much.

[tuscanyswe]

same tt slope as a psychlo-x

i kinda like it

To clarify it has the same tt slope as the new very recently updated psychlo-x. The older p-x did not have very much slope at all.

[crownjewelwl]

To clarify it has the same tt slope as the new very recently updated psychlo-x. The older p-x did not have very much slope at all.

the psychlo-x rsl doesnt have much slope...

[David Tollefson]

Looks good to me.

But I also ride a Softride, so we already know I thumb my nose at the traditional aesthetic.

[Formulasaab]

I agree with you. The Moots top tube slope is too extreme for me. IMO it makes the bike look weird.

Agreed.
Side profile on this, and many others with the oversized head tube makes it look like a Mtn bike front end was welded to a road bike rear. I can't get used to it. It looks photoshopped and out of proportion.

[Mikej]

44mm head tube height is most likely causing this. Moots seem to add to the ht height so its the same as the previous non 44mm ht with a top hs cup. Then they just slope it more so it doesnt look like an ht extension.

[crownjewelwl]

44mm head tube height is most likely causing this. Moots seem to add to the ht height so its the same as the previous non 44mm ht with a top hs cup. Then they just slope it more so it doesnt look like an ht extension.

dont think that is it...the psychlo-x rsl has a 44mm head tube and the tt slope isnt as extreme

the only thing i can surmise is that it has something to do with the disc brakes...but i'm not sure what

both the vamoots dr and the psychlo-x share the same double digit slope and both have discs...

[jpw]

short seat stays with mono link to seat tube stiffens resistance to disc brake forces?

[oldpotatoe]

I agree with you. The Moots top tube slope is too extreme for me. IMO it makes the bike look weird.

I think if the seat post was further, a normal amount in the frame corresponding to the size, I think it would look like the RSL or CR . The only thing 'wrong' is
Disc and Road together.

[gearguywb]

I think it's ok but I would cut down the steerer tube just a bit.

I like both non-sloping and sloping.....I guess I am just easy.

[BobbyJones]

C'mon guys. I've seen pics of some of the bikes you ride.

Glass houses and all of that stuff.

[tigoat]

It looks good to me with a sloping top tube. You guys claim to be a traditionalist with a level top tube bike but then add a tower of spacer under the stem, which makes it look ten folds uglier than this nice looking sloped top tube Moots.

[ERK55]

Just noticed in the new 2014 Moots lineup they've eliminated the Vamoots LT (formerly Mootour). That's too bad-though that frame seemed to get little press it's a great bike- basically a Vamoots with longer chainstays and ability to fit wider tires up to 33, when fitted with a Wound-up fork. Mine also has fender mounts. Currently without fenders and with 23c tires it's as lively as anything else I ride. It's a great bike for both paved and unpaved roads. And if you don't mind the Wound-up fork esthetically (I had them do a black anodized crown for a more clean stealthy look) it's a nice-looking bike. I believe this version was developed in conjunction with Steve Hampsten when Moots was fabricating his bikes. Now he calls his a Strada Bianca.

[Kirk007]

The only thing wrong with this bike is the Enve fork doesn't have enough clearance. But I guess you could put a Wound Up on there if you wanted to run 32s.

The slope is fine. Very similar to my Kirk travel bike. May not be some folks cup of tea aesthetically but I bet it rides very nice. I agree with Tom Kellog re the rider of slopers.

[tuscanyswe]

The only thing wrong with this bike is the Enve fork doesn't have enough clearance. But I guess you could put a Wound Up on there if you wanted to run 32s.

The slope is fine. Very similar to my Kirk travel bike. May not be some folks cup of tea aesthetically but I bet it rides very nice. I agree with Tom Kellog re the rider of slopers.

I sort of assumed that the enve fork would take a 29mm or close to that as it feels abit od to market the bike as such yet picture it with a fork that does not take a bigger tire.

So what is the limit of the road enve disc fork, 25s?

[Climb01742]

Don't you just hate how all these new fangled phones look? I mean, where are their rotary dials and cords?;)

[Mikej]

dont think that is it...the psychlo-x rsl has a 44mm head tube and the tt slope isnt as extreme

the only thing i can surmise is that it has something to do with the disc brakes...but i'm not sure what

both the vamoots dr and the psychlo-x share the same double digit slope and both have discs...

PX rsl has an internal style lower cup, you can't compare road geo to cross. A really big wishbone stay may look really bad, so some additional slope might help lesson the huge wishbone.

[Formulasaab]

C'mon guys. I've seen pics of some of the bikes you ride.

Glass houses and all of that stuff.

I have no fear of thrown stones. 12 out of the 14 bikes in my collection have level top tubes. Those two that don't are my 2000 dual suspension Gary Fisher Sugar 1 and my late 80's Raleigh Time Trial bike with 700c rear and 24" front (it slopes the other way).

[Formulasaab]

It looks good to me with a sloping top tube. You guys claim to be a traditionalist with a level top tube bike but then add a tower of spacer under the stem, which makes it look ten folds uglier than this nice looking sloped top tube Moots.

Um, no. Slam that stem!

[don'TreadOnMe]

It's a good design.
More exposed seatpost equals a smoother ride on rough surfaces.

[jpw]

Just noticed in the new 2014 Moots lineup they've eliminated the Vamoots LT (formerly Mootour). That's too bad-though that frame seemed to get little press it's a great bike- basically a Vamoots with longer chainstays and ability to fit wider tires up to 33, when fitted with a Wound-up fork. Mine also has fender mounts. Currently without fenders and with 23c tires it's as lively as anything else I ride. It's a great bike for both paved and unpaved roads. And if you don't mind the Wound-up fork esthetically (I had them do a black anodized crown for a more clean stealthy look) it's a nice-looking bike. I believe this version was developed in conjunction with Steve Hampsten when Moots was fabricating his bikes. Now he calls his a Strada Bianca.

for me the WU is too stiff a fork, and the look is a personal taste thing.

[jpw]

I sort of assumed that the enve fork would take a 29mm or close to that as it feels abit od to market the bike as such yet picture it with a fork that does not take a bigger tire.

So what is the limit of the road enve disc fork, 25s?

Enve website says 28.

[tigoat]

Enve website says 28.

I have been using this ENVE road disc fork from day one since it's release so I know a thing or two about it. A 28 mm tire will fit with sufficient clearance but if the tire is too tall then it might be a problem. I had to drop it down to 25 mm to have a little bit more room all around with this road fork. My Conti 4000S 25 mm tire, which measured around 27 mm fit nicely in this fork. This is a road fork after all...

[tigoat]

short seat stays with mono link to seat tube stiffens resistance to disc brake forces?

No

[tigoat]

dont think that is it...the psychlo-x rsl has a 44mm head tube and the tt slope isnt as extreme

the only thing i can surmise is that it has something to do with the disc brakes...but i'm not sure what

both the vamoots dr and the psychlo-x share the same double digit slope and both have discs...

It is all in the design. When you have a long head tube and a short seat tube then you will end up with a sloping top tube, as there is no way around it. FYI, for the same length head tube, a 44 mm ID head tube will actually have a shorter stack then a traditional 1-1/8" ID head tube.

[jpw]

It is all in the design. When you have a long head tube and a short seat tube then you will end up with a sloping top tube, as there is no way around it. FYI, for the same length head tube, a 44 mm ID head tube will actually have a shorter stack then a traditional 1-1/8" ID head tube.

a head tube extension a la Pegoretti is a way around it to some degree (pun intended). some like it, some don't. i didn't at first, but now i don't mind it so much.

[Formulasaab]

I have been using this ENVE road disc fork from day one since it's release so I know a thing or two about it. A 28 mm tire will fit with sufficient clearance but if the tire is too tall then it might be a problem. I had to drop it down to 25 mm to have a little bit more room all around with this road fork. My Conti 4000S 25 mm tire, which measured around 27 mm fit nicely in this fork. This is a road fork after all...

As I'm sure no one needs reminding (but I'll do it anyway) one model 28 tire is not necessarily going to measure the same as another 28 model tire and will have different dimensions depending on the wheel size and tire pressures as well.

[fuzzalow]

My preference is for the traditionalist, level top tube bikes and the sloping TT stock geos for the Moots DR are not my cuppa tea.

Running that much slope makes it very easy to place the bars almost level with the saddle and it still ends up not looking disproportionate or high rise in the spacers. IMO the crucial style element in demand here is the sleek, race bike aesthetic of showing lots of seatpost. No sense making bar positions useless by running drop that has no chance of being ridden. All in service of the ride which is the main thing.

No greater poseur offense than running drop that looks racy but can never be used.

[crownjewelwl]

It is all in the design. When you have a long head tube and a short seat tube then you will end up with a sloping top tube, as there is no way around it. FYI, for the same length head tube, a 44 mm ID head tube will actually have a shorter stack then a traditional 1-1/8" ID head tube.

that isnt the point...someone suggested that the 44mm headtube was the limiting factor...i pointed out that the rsl version of the psychlo-x shares the same headtube but doesnt have the exaggerated slope.

i would posit that because of the stresses on the frame for the disc, they wanted a smaller rear triangle to stiffen it up

[charliedid]

Helps channel sports drink drips back and away from your drivetrain.

[raygunner]

Okay so for an awesome Moots check out this Moots "Minotaur":

http://www.northcentralcyclery.com/?p=4577

[Mikej]

okay so for an awesome moots check out this moots "minotaur":

http://www.northcentralcyclery.com/?p=4577

want!

[christian]

Ugh, E, unwant! That cable routing is mega head scratching. Really dumb for a cx bike, and if it's not a cx bike, go with the standard routing for better shifting.

[David Tollefson]

Okay so for an awesome Moots check out this Moots "Minotaur":

http://www.northcentralcyclery.com/?p=4577

Some things to like, others not so much.

[Lazer]

it's a gravel racing bike. routing is to keep the cables as protected from elemnts as possible. bike isn't really meant to be shouldered. not for cross racing. has lower bb.

[christian]

it's a gravel racing bike. routing is to keep the cables as protected from elemnts as possible. bike isn't really meant to be shouldered. not for cross racing. has lower bb.

No, I get that. I don't get how that cable routing is in any way better than standard cable routing for "gravel racing." I ride gravel every single week on my Colnago. I've never once thought, "This would be better with full housing under the top tube." It's a solution to a made up problem, IMHO. It's a nice bike, but I'd rather have a Vamoots which fit 28s.

[Mikej]

No, I get that. I don't get how that cable routing is in any way better than standard cable routing for "gravel racing." I ride gravel every single week on my Colnago. I've never once thought, "This would be better with full housing under the top tube." It's a solution to a made up problem, IMHO. It's a nice bike, but I'd rather have a Vamoots which fit 28s.

Looks good, I like under the tube better. Also, since when is top mounting standard? On a cross bike yes, but my other bikes are all under. I think has bottle mounts as well, so thats means not intended for cross...I like it, Id just like to see a close up photo of the chainstay big ring clearance and the chainstay tire clearance.

[christian]

Also, since when is top mounting standard?When I said standard, I meant under the bb, like any other road bike.

[11.4]

One reason for that geometry is that the bike was sized to fit smaller people, but the head tube can't be shrunk if you anticipate using a 1-1/8 to 1-1/2 inch steer, which is what Enve is pushing. It's an amazing fork, but you do need enough head tube length for the steer to reduce down to 1-1/8". If I had a 94 mm head tube like on my 50 cm Crumpton, I couldn't slide a stem down on it because the steer would still have a greater diameter than the stem. So you're stick with a taller head tube. If you insist on a level top tube, you end up with a frame that sizes some people out of the frame. For a smaller rider, that doesn't work.

I think that road frames are simply evolving. Mountain frames adopted 1-1/8" steers and larger bottom brackets because they gave more frame design options -- a larger welding surface, the ability to mate larger main triangle tubes, the ability to work without contorted chain stays, and so on. I've ridden both new-school and old-school frames, and have to say that I can get more of what I want on a new-school frame. I have a new ti frame with a 44 mm head tube and a PF30 bottom bracket, and have a new carbon road frame equipped the same. Have you gone back and ridden a bike with 1" steer and quill stem? They aren't bad, but the newer designs outperform. Now a threadless stem or an external or a pressfit bottom bracket may not look quite right by classical standards, but they do work really well.

In the end, a bike can be a style statement, but for many people a bike is a tool to be ridden. If the design can be improved, do it.

[crownjewelwl]

just spoke to moots. 11.4 was the closest. the vamoots DR uses a tapered fork which requires more height for the head tube. simple.

in addition, they said the the DR geometry is more "endurance" oriented than race therefore it is more upright.

[Butch]

A couple of things I might add from inside Moots about the DR, some of which has been mentioned.
The top tube has more slope for a few reasons, even though the seat tube lengths are the same on the DR and the CR. The DR has more drop, the 44mm headtube is adjusted longer because the stack height is less on the headset and we have the request to lengthen head tubes more than any other customization we do. We prefer to keep the distance from the end of the head tube to the top of the top tube to a minumum. And yes, we have chosen to use the 27.2 post for comfort.
The bike is designed for riding on all types of roads paved and dirt. The tires we have been running on the proto are Challenge Parigi-Roubaix 27c. They actually measure ~29.2mm wide and there is adequate room in the fork and a ton of room in the back. Longer chainstays are used for a number of reasons including stability, comfort and the need with 135 spacing. (The cogset has moved out 2-1/2mm, but the chainline of the cranks has remained the same as 130.)
We used the wishbone design to give the seatstay a little more stiffness for the post mount, to have consistent tire clearance especially on smaller frames and to create a new look for a new type of bike. Any questions feel free to send me a pm.
butch@moots

[Kirk007]

Thanks for the direct input Butch! Any chance a "minotaur" like model becomes a standard offering?

[Kirk007]

Thanks for the direct input Butch! Any chance a "minotaur" like model becomes a standard offering?

[tigoat]

Okay you stem slammer and tt slopers here is one of my custom road bikes with disc brakes:

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s365/mingbogo/di2/Eriksen_34hhh_zps16fbf237.jpg

[tuscanyswe]

Now thats a good looking bike!

I love moots and i was having a discussion the other day about what food i would eat if i could only have one for the rest of my life. Turned out to be cheese sandwich after careful consideration. If i could only buy one brand for the rest of my life it would be moots. Unfortunetly not the new DR or the Disc cross :cool:

[soulspinner]

Okay you stem slammer and tt slopers here is one of my custom road bikes with disc brakes:

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s365/mingbogo/di2/Eriksen_34hhh_zps16fbf237.jpg

Even though I prolly will never own a bike with road discs, this look great. :) Mirror on the right side of bike????????

[pdmtong]

Even though I prolly will never own a bike with road discs, this look great. :) Mirror on the right side of bike????????

He has mirrors on both left and right

[jpw]

Okay you stem slammer and tt slopers here is one of my custom road bikes with disc brakes:

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s365/mingbogo/di2/Eriksen_34hhh_zps16fbf237.jpg

is that the battery or a pump?

[jpw]

A couple of things I might add from inside Moots about the DR, some of which has been mentioned.
The top tube has more slope for a few reasons, even though the seat tube lengths are the same on the DR and the CR. The DR has more drop, the 44mm headtube is adjusted longer because the stack height is less on the headset and we have the request to lengthen head tubes more than any other customization we do. We prefer to keep the distance from the end of the head tube to the top of the top tube to a minumum. And yes, we have chosen to use the 27.2 post for comfort.
The bike is designed for riding on all types of roads paved and dirt. The tires we have been running on the proto are Challenge Parigi-Roubaix 27c. They actually measure ~29.2mm wide and there is adequate room in the fork and a ton of room in the back. Longer chainstays are used for a number of reasons including stability, comfort and the need with 135 spacing. (The cogset has moved out 2-1/2mm, but the chainline of the cranks has remained the same as 130.)
We used the wishbone design to give the seatstay a little more stiffness for the post mount, to have consistent tire clearance especially on smaller frames and to create a new look for a new type of bike. Any questions feel free to send me a pm.
butch@moots

for that fork what therefore is the minimum required head tube length?

[tigoat]

Even though I prolly will never own a bike with road discs, this look great. :) Mirror on the right side of bike????????

Yeah one for watching cars behind me while the other one is for monitoring my riding buddies for attacking so I counter early:). Regardless of the usage, these mirrors have been invaluable in the last few years when I first discovered them. Can't ride any of my bikes without a mirror nowadays, and I hate those helmet mounted ones so these are my only options. These Italian aero mirrors are highly recommended.

[tigoat]

is that the battery or a pump?

It is a mini morph pump that is mounted to an extra set of water bottle mounts under the down tube; put there intentionally for that purpose.

[tigoat]

One reason for that geometry is that the bike was sized to fit smaller people, but the head tube can't be shrunk if you anticipate using a 1-1/8 to 1-1/2 inch steer, which is what Enve is pushing. It's an amazing fork, but you do need enough head tube length for the steer to reduce down to 1-1/8". If I had a 94 mm head tube like on my 50 cm Crumpton, I couldn't slide a stem down on it because the steer would still have a greater diameter than the stem. So you're stick with a taller head tube. If you insist on a level top tube, you end up with a frame that sizes some people out of the frame. For a smaller rider, that doesn't work.


That is a major reason why I have a slopping top tube on all of my bikes, as I ride an extra small frame size. For any frame that is under a 55, the head tube has to be really short to have a level top tube, which makes it look very miniature. A level top tube frame only looks good if it is a large frame. Take a look at the picture I posted in this thread. My extra small bike does not look miniature at all due to my clever design :)with a good balance of head tube length and top tube slope.

As for the ENVE road disc fork, you could go with a shorter head tube than 120 mm without any issue so it is more of a design issue than a technical one. With that said, when it gets really short, it will come to a point where the excess molding material inside the steerer will interfere with the expander plug so you have to be careful about that. I bet you could cut this fork down for a 100 mm head tube.

[oldpotatoe]

A couple of things I might add from inside Moots about the DR, some of which has been mentioned.
The top tube has more slope for a few reasons, even though the seat tube lengths are the same on the DR and the CR. The DR has more drop, the 44mm headtube is adjusted longer because the stack height is less on the headset and we have the request to lengthen head tubes more than any other customization we do. We prefer to keep the distance from the end of the head tube to the top of the top tube to a minumum. And yes, we have chosen to use the 27.2 post for comfort.
The bike is designed for riding on all types of roads paved and dirt. The tires we have been running on the proto are Challenge Parigi-Roubaix 27c. They actually measure ~29.2mm wide and there is adequate room in the fork and a ton of room in the back. Longer chainstays are used for a number of reasons including stability, comfort and the need with 135 spacing. (The cogset has moved out 2-1/2mm, but the chainline of the cranks has remained the same as 130.)
We used the wishbone design to give the seatstay a little more stiffness for the post mount, to have consistent tire clearance especially on smaller frames and to create a new look for a new type of bike. Any questions feel free to send me a pm.
butch@moots

Hi Butch!!!

[Mikej]

just spoke to moots. 11.4 was the closest. the vamoots DR uses a tapered fork which requires more height for the head tube. simple.

in addition, they said the the DR geometry is more "endurance" oriented than race therefore it is more upright.

So then wouldn't every ht have a minimum height or am I missing something? Just curious as I am really considering a bike like this-only made by Kent Eriksen, not moots.

[jbay]

No, I get that. I don't get how that cable routing is in any way better than standard cable routing for "gravel racing." I ride gravel every single week on my Colnago. I've never once thought, "This would be better with full housing under the top tube." It's a solution to a made up problem, IMHO. It's a nice bike, but I'd rather have a Vamoots which fit 28s.It's a regional thing, I believe. In the Midwest, where North Central Cyclery are located, the use of frame-bags, such as those made by Revelate and Porcelain Rocket, is very common on "gravel grinders" (I dislike the term, but it's in the vernacular at this point, so I'll run with it). Frame-bags do not play well with top-tube cable routing, as used on many 'cross bikes, as you either have to run the velcro straps over the cables (not good from the friction perspective) or try to thread them underneath (a pain). Working on the assumption that top-tube cable routing is really desired, what next? Full-length housing stops the frame-bag from interfering with the cables. However, it looks fugly up there on top of the top tube, so I think that is how the housing ended up underneath the top tube, where it is hidden by the omnipresent frame-bag. Salsa do the same with their Warbird model, FWIW.

Me? I'm a down tube cable routing kinda' guy.

-- John

[11.4]

So then wouldn't every ht have a minimum height or am I missing something? Just curious as I am really considering a bike like this-only made by Kent Eriksen, not moots.

If you want to use a 1-1/8 to 1-1/2 Enve fork, the tapered part of the steer is long enough (and also can't fit the plug inside properly) that you can't cut it as far down. Could you do a 10 cm head tube and then a centimeter or two of spacers? Sure, if you prefer that look.

Do note that with a 1-1/8 to 1-1/2, you will have the top bearings inset and can have the bottom bearings inset or external. Each time you go inset you lower your total stack height by about a centimeter, so a 12 cm 44 mm head tube is really equivalent to an 11 in a traditional design with traditional external bearings. Or a 10 if you go with inset top and bottom. King has a beautiful headset that's inset top and external below and matches the Enve tapered-steer fork really nicely. And the inset top bearing actually looks better and does just fine with a slammed stem. My prior bike had a 9.95 cm head tube and a 14 cm -17 degree stem to give me a comfortably low position (50 cm c-c frame), and I got almost the same position with the 44 cm head tube and inset bearings.

[christian]

It's a regional thing, I believe. In the Midwest, where North Central Cyclery are located, the use of frame-bags, such as those made by Revelate and Porcelain Rocket, is very common on "gravel grinders" (I dislike the term, but it's in the vernacular at this point, so I'll run with it). Frame-bags do not play well with top-tube cable routing, as used on many 'cross bikes, as you either have to run the velcro straps over the cables (not good from the friction perspective) or try to thread them underneath (a pain). Working on the assumption that top-tube cable routing is really desired, what next? Full-length housing stops the frame-bag from interfering with the cables. However, it looks fugly up there on top of the top tube, so I think that is how the housing ended up underneath the top tube, where it is hidden by the omnipresent frame-bag. Salsa do the same with their Warbird model, FWIW.

Me? I'm a down tube cable routing kinda' guy.

-- JohnJohn, thanks for erasing some ignorance in the world. That makes a lot of sense.

[Mikej]

If you want to use a 1-1/8 to 1-1/2 Enve fork, the tapered part of the steer is long enough (and also can't fit the plug inside properly) that you can't cut it as far down. Could you do a 10 cm head tube and then a centimeter or two of spacers? Sure, if you prefer that look.

Do note that with a 1-1/8 to 1-1/2, you will have the top bearings inset and can have the bottom bearings inset or external. Each time you go inset you lower your total stack height by about a centimeter, so a 12 cm 44 mm head tube is really equivalent to an 11 in a traditional design with traditional external bearings. Or a 10 if you go with inset top and bottom. King has a beautiful headset that's inset top and external below and matches the Enve tapered-steer fork really nicely. And the inset top bearing actually looks better and does just fine with a slammed stem. My prior bike had a 9.95 cm head tube and a 14 cm -17 degree stem to give me a comfortably low position (50 cm c-c frame), and I got almost the same position with the 44 cm head tube and inset bearings.

I'm not sure about your description, the Eriksen on the previous page seems to debunk your explanation with its shorter head tube and minimal stack

[texbike]

Okay you stem slammer and tt slopers here is one of my custom road bikes with disc brakes:

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s365/mingbogo/di2/Eriksen_34hhh_zps16fbf237.jpg

Wow! What an incredibly hot looking bike! This gives me the lust.

Texbike

A couple of things I might add from inside Moots about the DR, some of which has been mentioned.
The top tube has more slope for a few reasons, even though the seat tube lengths are the same on the DR and the CR. The DR has more drop, the 44mm headtube is adjusted longer because the stack height is less on the headset and we have the request to lengthen head tubes more than any other customization we do. We prefer to keep the distance from the end of the head tube to the top of the top tube to a minumum. And yes, we have chosen to use the 27.2 post for comfort.
The bike is designed for riding on all types of roads paved and dirt. The tires we have been running on the proto are Challenge Parigi-Roubaix 27c. They actually measure ~29.2mm wide and there is adequate room in the fork and a ton of room in the back. Longer chainstays are used for a number of reasons including stability, comfort and the need with 135 spacing. (The cogset has moved out 2-1/2mm, but the chainline of the cranks has remained the same as 130.)
We used the wishbone design to give the seatstay a little more stiffness for the post mount, to have consistent tire clearance especially on smaller frames and to create a new look for a new type of bike. Any questions feel free to send me a pm.
butch@moots

It sure is cool to have Moots in the house! Thanks for the input on the bike. It would be great to have you guys involved in more discussions!

Texbike

[tigoat]

Here is another one of my babies:

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s365/mingbogo/di2/Quiring-03hh_zps63e99e05.jpg

Every time I feel like kicking my buddies, this is usually the bike I hop on to get it done. Enjoy!

[jpw]

Here is another one of my babies:

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s365/mingbogo/di2/Quiring-03hh_zps63e99e05.jpg

Every time I feel like kicking my buddies, this is usually the bike I hop on to get it done. Enjoy!

what's the diameter of the stem steerer tube clamp, as it looks fat and well proportioned with that head tube?

[54ny77]

Umm, that thing is NICE. Wow. Fun to ride?

Okay you stem slammer and tt slopers here is one of my custom road bikes with disc brakes:

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s365/mingbogo/di2/Eriksen_34hhh_zps16fbf237.jpg

[11.4]

I'm not sure about your description, the Eriksen on the previous page seems to debunk your explanation with its shorter head tube and minimal stack

I'm not sure what your post actually refers to. If you are saying that the Eriksen has a short head tube and minimal stack but still accommodates the steer, then yes, there's room there, but I'd like to hear what the actual head tube measurement is -- that photo shows a head tube longer than my Crumpton and on a par with my new frame with the tapered steer. On my bike with the same fork the expansion plug for the top cap was right at the limit before the inside of the steer started expanding to 1-1/2". Eriksen may have pushed the limit another centimeter or so, or actually put some fiberglass filler into the steer to run it shorter (I've seen that done, though I'm not sure I'd like it and it certainly would void the warranty).

But you'll note that Moots had the same point and Moots won't reduce the head tube below a 12 cm with that fork. So Moots apparently sees the same issue and designs around it. Hence the sloping top tube.

[texbike]

Here is another one of my babies:

http://i1048.photobucket.com/albums/s365/mingbogo/di2/Quiring-03hh_zps63e99e05.jpg

Every time I feel like kicking my buddies, this is usually the bike I hop on to get it done. Enjoy!

Nice! Who's the builder?

Texbike

[11.4]

Here's what the 1-1/8 to 1-1/2 Enve steer looks like. The rule next to it was aligned with the base of the headset bottom plate. Note, if you look close, the wraps around the point where it transitions from tapering to 1-1/8". If you look inside, the inside diameter isn't a consistent diameter, suitable for a plug, for a little more than that. Perhaps with this you can anticipate what liberties you can take with head tube length in a 44 mm head tube with 1-1/8 to 1-1/8" Enve fork.

[poff]

Just ordered one!