Ever heard of "finish bottles?"

[LegendRider]

I wasn't familiar with "finish bottles," but apparently they are relatively common.

http://stevetilford.com/2013/10/14/racing-on-opiates/

The use of prescription opiates to mask normal pain at the end of a race is ethically dubious, but what do you expect from pro cycling?

[rice rocket]

This is how I win all my Cat5 races. :banana:

[goonster]

Tramadol is not on the WADA list, but requires a prescription.

Question for the MD's on the forum:

What are the general medical ethics involved in such a case?

You have an athlete in your care, and she asks for Tramadol to alleviate discomfort associated with extreme training or competitive efforts. You are confident there is no obvious cheating involved, but this is a drug with abuse potential.

How do you determine legitimate medical need, and where would you draw the ethical line in such a case?

[weiwentg]

Tramadol is not on the WADA list, but requires a prescription.

Question for the MD's on the forum:

What are the general medical ethics involved in such a case?

You have an athlete in your care, and she asks for Tramadol to alleviate discomfort associated with extreme training or competitive efforts. You are confident there is no obvious cheating involved, but this is a drug with abuse potential.

How do you determine legitimate medical need, and where would you draw the ethical line in such a case?

I hope the MDs here would draw the line quite some distance before the NFL's doctors.

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-04-13/sports/38511779_1_toradol-painkillers-prescription-drug-use

[Shortsocks]

This is how I win all my Cat5 races. :banana:

You too? :banana:

[phcollard]

I sometimes take Tramadol when my chronic upper torso/back pain flares. It's very efficient but I don't see how it could be used as a perforance enhancing drug. Makes you feel very sleepy!

[MattTuck]

Did I read that right? Did they just suggest that this is the stuff that Richie Porte illegally took from the team car and then handed up to Chris Froome to keep him from bonking.

The aggregation of marginal gains, indeed.

[Shortsocks]

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/13076/Taylor-Phinney-Interview-Getting-the-pill-culture-out-of-the-sport.aspx

Great article about this with a Taylor Phinney interview. Very rare to have a cyclist, who is currently riding, speak openly.

[jpw]

drugs in sport.

i read an article over the weekend about a global sports organisation domiciled in Switzerland. no, not the UCI. this one is FIFA. next year is the FIFA World Cup Finals in Brazil. Apparently Brazil has yet to constitute a top tier testing lab that meets the highest standards set by WADA and the like. FIFA is 'not happy' about this and is considering having samples taken from players during the tournament flown daily to an accredited Swiss lab for analysis. sounds very noble and worthy in the fight against drugs in sport. However, based on the lamentable history of the UCI i got to thinking about FIFA's plan. if the samples are tested in Switzerland they will fall under the jurisdiction of Swiss law. I can't help but wonder if this is a ploy by both FIFA and Brazil to 'control' the process and protect the 'good name and reputation' of football (soccer) as a clean sport at the elite level. call me a cynic, but football never seems to have a drugs scandal, and yet is a sport that requires the strength, speed, and stamina that PEDs would enhance measurably. i'm suspicious.

[goonster]

call me a cynic, but football never seems to have a drugs scandal
This is too much thread drift, but . . .

UCI's corruption pales in comparison with that of FIFA, since the amount of money involved is so much greater. Everyone who follows the sport with any sort of regularity knows this, as FIFA barely even pretends otherwise. Generally, folks think that the game has bigger problems than doping, and with the exception of the '95/'96 Juve team there have been few allegations of focused, team-supervised, systematic doping. Doping is simply not considered to be as decisive a factor in the results.

Top-tier soccer players fail drug tests pretty regularly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Doping_cases_in_association_football), including the World's onetime top player at the game's showcase event (Maradona, for ephedrine, in '94).

[redir]

Tramadol is not an opiate though it acts in a very similar manor. You can pass a test for opiates if you are on tramadol. When I crash or get hurt I always ask the doctor for tramadol because I don't like opiates, they just don't work on me unless in high dosage which they won't prescribe anyway so I just get tramadol.

[54ny77]

Some mornings I'd like to have a start bottle, let alone contemplate the need for a finish bottle. :rolleyes:

[Likes2ridefar]

Tramadol is not an opiate though it acts in a very similar manor. You can pass a test for opiates if you are on tramadol. When I crash or get hurt I always ask the doctor for tramadol because I don't like opiates, they just don't work on me unless in high dosage which they won't prescribe anyway so I just get tramadol.

dont know a whole bunch about the drug, but the first sentence on wikipedia says it's an opioid analgesic.

[bargainguy]

It's a synthetic opioid. Some classify it as a narcotic while others don't. Known better in the US as Ultram.

The fact that it doesn't routinely show up on opiate screens means it's considered fair game for those wishing pain relief but wanting a negative opiate test.

Using analgesics for athletes is nothing new, but this one is a little stronger than your over-the-counter NSAIDs (aspirin, ibuprofen, naproxen etc.).

[joosttx]

Funny, I have used "finish" bottles towards the end of long rando rides. They were a mixture of coke and alieve. Two alieve and about an hour later drink a coke. It does help one finish.

[false_Aest]

I used to have a few training books from the late 70s - mid80s that gave recipes for stuff like this.

One was really simple

glucose syrup
espresso shot
shot of whiskey

pour into glass bottle. cork. drink 15k out.

I'm trying to imagine going down with a glass bottle in my jersey pocket. Yeah, the recipe specifically said glass bottle + cork.

[christian]

Funny, I have used "finish" bottles towards the end of long rando rides. They were a mixture of coke and alieve. Two alieve and about an hour later drink a coke. It does help one finish.

I'm on the phone with RUSA about all results dating back to 1998 now. Is it
also true you once raced in Ellis, KS under the influence of .... oh never mind.

[sg8357]

Finish bottle, Kurt S. style.
At the last rest stop drink a V8 Juice followed by a Mountain Dew.

[LegendRider]

Finish bottle, Kurt S. style.
At the last rest stop drink a V8 Juice followed by a Mountain Dew.

I'm not sure my stomach could handle the V8 + Mountain Dew while on the bike, but a V8 after a long, hot ride (major salt loss) is fantastic.

[Hank Scorpio]

I don't know if this qualifies as a finish bottle but I had a mint mocha frappuccino at the halfway point today and it was terrible but junior mints are my favorite candy. Weird!

[parris]

I'm pretty sure I read about something like this in Eddie B's book from the mid 80's but he called it an atom bottle.

[cfox]

It's as old a practice as the sport itself. Anquetil, and then later Freddy Maertens use to have champagne in their finish bottles. I imagine the champange was just there to help dissolve whatever other crap the dumped in.

[Tandem Rider]

Flat coke was pretty common in the 80's, get it at the last feed. Seemed to help, at least we thought it did. Had to know yourself and the course because drinking it too early meant no go for the show.

[cekte]

Finish bottle, Kurt S. style.
At the last rest stop drink a V8 Juice followed by a Mountain Dew.

Ooof. That would almost undoubtedly end with me projectile vomiting aforementioned ingredients shortly there after.

Espresso and a whiskey shot sounds much more tolerable, though it's efficacy is still questionable. Around here we have what my friends and I refer to as the Portland 1on1; Espresso shot and a microbrew.

[ptourkin]

I'm not sure my stomach could handle the V8 + Mountain Dew while on the bike, but a V8 after a long, hot ride (major salt loss) is fantastic.

^+1 I do V8 on long brevets for the sodium. Regular Coke for the caffeine.

[AgilisMerlin]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/Side_effects_of_Tramadol.png/607px-Side_effects_of_Tramadol.png

[#campyuserftw]

Did I read that right? Did they just suggest that this is the stuff that Richie Porte illegally took from the team car and then handed up to Chris Froome to keep him from bonking.

The aggregation of marginal gains, indeed.

There is nothing to see here. There is no more cheating in cycling! Froome was drinking chocolate milk, handed to him by Porte, who grabbed it from Hines Ward. Nobody micro-doses EPO anymore. Cycling is clean.

:)

[SpokeValley]

:)Some mornings I'd like to have a start bottle, let alone contemplate the need for a finish bottle. :rolleyes:

[bikinchris]

I wasn't familiar with "finish bottles," but apparently they are relatively common.

http://stevetilford.com/2013/10/14/racing-on-opiates/

The use of prescription opiates to mask normal pain at the end of a race is ethically dubious, but what do you expect from pro cycling?

Racers in the "old days" had a small flask they kept to use toward the end of a race. I even saw them use it on TV. I think the announcers presumed they had alcohol in there. I am guessing they used something stronger.

[bikinchris]

This is too much thread drift, but . . .

UCI's corruption pales in comparison with that of FIFA, since the amount of money involved is so much greater. Everyone who follows the sport with any sort of regularity knows this, as FIFA barely even pretends otherwise. Generally, folks think that the game has bigger problems than doping, and with the exception of the '95/'96 Juve team there have been few allegations of focused, team-supervised, systematic doping. Doping is simply not considered to be as decisive a factor in the results.

Top-tier soccer players fail drug tests pretty regularly (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Doping_cases_in_association_football), including the World's onetime top player at the game's showcase event (Maradona, for ephedrine, in '94).

Um... yeah, sure. No doping (in a sport that combines endurance with skill) or betting or any corruption in soccer. Nothing to see here. Move along.

[sjbraun]

My finish bottles typically contain beer.

[Russell]

i prefer a finish bong

[gasman]

Tramadol is a weak pain reliever, only slightly more powerful than a couple ibuprofen and on par with codeine. It has a ceiling effect-any more than 100 mg gives you more side effects and no more pain relief. It works weakly on the opioid receptors but also works on serotonin and norepinephrine receptors.
I suspect that in the finish bottle the caffeine is the key ingredient. Tramadol is not commonly used for post operative pain relief except for minor procedures. I did administer it IV a lot when I worked in New Zealand but only to decrease the amount of other more potent narcotics.

Never heard of a finish bottle before.

[blessthismess]

My finish bottle is blue, gold and red and has "born in the land of sky blue waters" printed on it. Works wonders for me and is very budget conscious.

[Saint Vitus]

So this is not a bottle crafted in Finland?

[FlashUNC]

Jean Bobet talked about finish bottles in his book Tomorrow, We Ride.

[BumbleBeeDave]

At the Tour of the Batenkill all three podium finishers get a big bottle of chocolate milk from a local dairy (and race sponsor) to celebrate with. The winner proves his worth by chugging it on the podium.

I thought that's what you mean. I'm so frickin' naive . . . :rolleyes:

BBD