Retiring to France or Italy

[velotel]

Hank's obviously already done it. Would you seriously consider it?

How expensive is it to retire in France in an area with this sort of riding, vs the US in an area with somewhat equivalent riding and weather?

I grew up speaking, reading, and writing both French and English, so language wouldn't be an issue for me, but just the same, that's a long way to go, even for the sake of awesome riding.
Louis asked that on my post for the Col de l'Arpettaz. An interesting question so I’ll just start a new thread since there are others on the forum with experience living in Europe. No sense responding in the original post because that will disappear rapidly enough.

My experience isn’t really what you’re asking because I didn’t move here to retire; I moved to marry a woman. That she’s french gave me full residence status including social security, health, etc. I don’t know how that works for people moving to France from a non EU country. On the other hand I know that french laws are such that anyone living here has some sort of automatic right to provided health care.

Part of my reasoning on moving to France was, why not? I mean what’s the difference between moving to another state and moving to another country? Not much, really. Or at least in the case of moving to a modern country like France. A third world country would obviously be way different but here in France, outside of the language and various customs, the lifestyle really isn’t much different than in the states. Surprisingly similar actually. And in many respects considerably more advanced as in a lot of euro countries. In other words the transition isn’t so different, outside of as I said language and various customs. Like stores closing from noon to two, though not the big stores and not most stores in cities. Or I think that is true in most cities. My only experience is Grenoble.

For me living in France is like being a skier, which I used to be, and living at a ski resort in order to ski, which I used to do. And if I’m going to live in a ski resort to ski, I want to be at one of the best. Like surfers who move to Hawaii or rock climbers who move to, hmmm, not sure where, Boulder or maybe Eldorado Springs for example, or France as it turns out because the country is a climber’s paradise apparently. Just ask Maxn. Or mountain bikers who move to Crested Butte or maybe up near Whistler or extreme skiers who move to Alaska. For road cycling, nowhere is better than France. Actually no different than people who move to some place because of work. And people who move to Arizona or Florida to retire. It’s all the same really.

So I say if you love to ride and you’re retiring and you want to retire where you can ride the best, why not move to France, or Italy. Like I said, outside of the language gap, leaving the states for here isn’t all that different.

I don’t know if the cost of living here is higher or lower. Some things are lower, some higher. Wine is much cheaper here. Beer is more expensive. Single malt scotch is way less. Campy parts are cheaper, even cheaper than in England. Fuel for cars is more expensive but overall driving expenses may be lower because we drive less, get much better fuel consumption, and insurance is less. I think maintenance is more expensive. Food costs I think are lower but that is a weak comparison because my only experience anymore on food prices is when I’m in Boulder, Colorado, which is an expensive town. Taxes on houses are lower I believe but again that’s hard to say since in the states that changes drastically based on where you are. Home taxes in France are somewhat similar everywhere. Medical costs are way lower, which for anyone who’s retired is important.

In the end, life in any modern country is going to be expensive because a modern country is expensive to create and maintain. Unfortunately Americans have forgotten that having a modern country is expensive and under Reagan decided they wanted to do the country on the cheap. Road conditions in France are excellent, much better than in Italy. The french budget for road maintenance must be impressive. There is also a huge public transportation system in place, buses, trains, trams. All that is subsidized. The autoroutes are expensive but gorgeous roads. The cost tends to keep traffic down. Italian autoroutes are cheaper but going up in price.

The money France is spending on cleaning up and landscaping the cities, towns, and villages is also also impressive. Flowers everywhere, sidewalks torn up and redone in stone or brick, more and more roundabouts all richly decorated with flowers, shrubs, trees. Pretty impressive.

High-speed internet connections everywhere, excellent portable phone coverage also. One crazy aspect of life in France is that with the internet connection at the house, we also get unlimited phone calls that pass by the internet. I call my son in the states and talk as long as I want for free for example. Only country in Europe with that I know of.

In sum, a life of retirement over here could be pretty amazing. It is for me. And as I said and as I’ve shown in my posts the riding here is sublime. Something like a 1,400,000 Ks of paved secondary roads that ofttimes can seem like dedicated bike paths. Lots of bike paths too, probably, maybe certainly, not as many as in Germany and Switzerland but a lot and more all the time. Drivers give riders space on the road. The law here is that in any accident between a car and cyclist, and probably a pedestrian too, the driver of the car is automatically at fault. Even if the cyclist did something stupid and or illegal the driver will still end up with something like 50% of the fault.

The other thing with France is that the country is small compared to the US which means that everything isn’t far away. I’m in the Alps, the Med is only three, three and a half hours away. In two hours I can be on my bike in the Piedmonte region in Italy. The Adriatic is only seven hours away. An hour and a half and I’m riding in Switzerland. I mean the access from here to some very cool places is super easy. We have friends who have been vacationing in Croatia on the coast there and apparently that is a paradise and it’s easy to get to. Greece is easy to get to. Hell, all of Europe is easy to get to. The only place that isn’t easy to get to from here is the US; that’s a long ways away.

Forgot to say something about Italy that takes a bit of the shine off the idea of living there. I love Italy, the culture, the food, the towns, the language, the women, the countryside but northern Italy is crowded as hell. The roads can be harrowing for a cyclist. Italian drivers make me nervous. And living there can be tricky in some respects. For example a house, any work you want to do on your house has to have a lot of permits, all have to paid for, and the work has to be done by licensed contractors. The transformation of the house here in France that I’ve done by myself I could not have done in Italy. At all. Discovered that recently. That was a shock because lately I’ve been thinking how cool it would be to have a small house in the Piedmonte. Prices there are lower than here, a lot lower. But after hearing some horror stories of home owners and the hassles and costs of getting something done there totally squashed my silly little dream. Cheaper and easier to stay in hotels. For cycling the Piedmonte is fantastic along with the central mountains running down the country. Obviously Tuscany also. But from the Po River valley north, things get crowded.

There you are, my take on the idea of retiring in France, or Italy. Basically my response is, why not. For me leaving the states was a bit the old, been there, done that. I was ready for a change. I arrived not speaking a word of french. I haven’t ever for one instant regretted moving here.

[Louis]

For me leaving the states was a bit the old, been there, done that. I was ready for a change. I arrived not speaking a word of french. I haven’t ever for one instant regretted moving here.

Hank, thanks for the response.

I'm glad it's worked out so well for you.

Those of us over here, we can always dream... :)

[Mr. Pink]

Thanks for this very informative post.

Two questions.

Did you know any French before you moved there, and, how long did it take you to feel comfortable conversing in the language once you moved, if at all?

(EDIT: duh. "I arrived not speaking a word of french." So, are you conversant now? How did you learn? A school, maybe?)


If you had a choice of any town in the Piedmonte to buy that small home, what would that town be?

[alancw3]

hank, thanks for the information. great to get your first hand perspective and experience. glad you are living your dream!!! a question. do you have to file income tax returns there or is the tax revenue based solely on the VAT?

[Climb01742]

Hank, thank you for the thread. Retiring, or simply living, in Europe is a dream of mine. Do you know if there are any restrictions on non-French citizens buying real estate in France? I know in some EU countries there are. Wonder how many of us are living vicariously through your posts?;)

[enr1co]

Hank, thank you for the thread. Retiring, or simply living, in Europe is a dream of mine. Do you know if there are any restrictions on non-French citizens buying real estate in France? I know in some EU countries there are. Wonder how many of us are living vicariously through your posts?;)

Yes very nice write up something to consider:beer:- especially with all this government shutdown nonsense going on.:mad:

[csm]

The important question it's do you know any nice single French women that I could marry?


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[Fixed]

My girlfriend wants to do this ,Costa Rica,Thailand ,I am saying Spain .
San Francisco has better riding than where I was in Florida ,
Cheers :beer:

[#campyuserftw]

Are the French looking to retire to California, Colorado, or Austin? :)

We always want what we don't have, to be where we're not, and forget to enjoy what we have, and where we are; Budweiser is huge in Ireland and go figure that:

http://www.irelandlogue.com/about-ireland/the-irish-hate-guinness.html

Many or most retirees have concerns about their money, taxes, healthcare, and leaving behind their property/dinero to their families. In terms of taxes, France has "social-charges" and stiff tax:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2013/09/economist-explains-13

I can understand the mystique of France and Italy for two-wheeled enthusiasts, vacations, perhaps even a place to hang up one's saddle, I do, but America has golden nuggets of prime cycling, where gravity is the same, and finances work heavily in our favor.

[thwart]

Drivers give riders space on the road. The law here is that in any accident between a car and cyclist, and probably a pedestrian too, the driver of the car is automatically at fault.

For this reason alone retirement there looks very, very attractive.

[Gsinill]

No they don't... ;)

Are the French looking to retire to California, Colorado, or Austin? :)

[Mr. Pink]

Are the French looking to retire to California, Colorado, or Austin? :)

We always want what we don't have, to be where we're not, and forget to enjoy what we have, and where we are; Budweiser is huge in Ireland and go figure that:

http://www.irelandlogue.com/about-ireland/the-irish-hate-guinness.html

Many or most retirees have concerns about their money, taxes, healthcare, and leaving behind their property/dinero to their families. In terms of taxes, France has "social-charges" and stiff tax:

http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2013/09/economist-explains-13

I can understand the mystique of France and Italy for two-wheeled enthusiasts, vacations, perhaps even a place to hang up one's saddle, I do, but America has golden nuggets of prime cycling, where gravity is the same, and finances work heavily in our favor.

I'm pretty sure that most of the developed world's citizens look on in disgust and horror as America, the only member of that group without universal health care, experiences a shutdown of it's government because a small group of fanatics want to prevent any sort of movement towards universal health care.
So, no, I really doubt any of the French want to retire to America.
Besides, read Velotel's post. Sounds like road biking heaven. Or, at least the best one could find in the world, considering. Austin? Doubtful. And California? You already pay very high taxes, but, you're on your own without health insurance or a car and many other services the French take for granted.

[majorpat]

I often wonder what keeps us from having a more tolerant attitude towards bicycles, or walkers. and why, outside of major cities where public transit is truly needed, is there a stigma to riding the bus, walking or riding a bike.

Sure, our non-metropolis cities were built for cars, but something keeps us from embracing alternatives. Choose to live car-free in America and you are a "pioneer", an object of curiosity or even disdain.

Maybe we are too conformist, an odd concept in a country of 300 million or so, or maybe we have lost that something that makes us choose to be different.

Of course it usually takes a major event to force change, I wonder what/when/where that will be?

That being said, I'd like Uncle Sam to send me to a European assignment for a few years, I'm looking!

[#campyuserftw]

I often wonder what keeps us from having a more tolerant attitude towards bicycles, or walkers. and why, outside of major cities where public transit is truly needed, is there a stigma to riding the bus, walking or riding a bike.

Sure, our non-metropolis cities were built for cars, but something keeps us from embracing alternatives. Choose to live car-free in America and you are a "pioneer", an object of curiosity or even disdain.

Maybe we are too conformist, an odd concept in a country of 300 million or so, or maybe we have lost that something that makes us choose to be different.

Of course it usually takes a major event to force change, I wonder what/when/where that will be?

Touches some of your topics, and questions, worth a read:

http://www.cyclehelmets.org/papers/c2014.pdf

According to this we should never ride in Japan and should retire to New Zealand for safety (France had major decrease since 1965):

http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1258.html

http://www.bicyclinginfo.org/facts/crash-facts.cfm

Note, I believe USA, whose death rate today is almost the same it was in 1965, did see a major increase of cyclists since 1965. These groups seem to work for the rights/awareness/promote safety:

http://www.everybicyclistcounts.org/site/map

http://www.peopleforbikes.org/

[William]

I often wonder what keeps us from having a more tolerant attitude towards bicycles, or walkers. and why, outside of major cities where public transit is truly needed, is there a stigma to riding the bus, walking or riding a bike.

Sure, our non-metropolis cities were built for cars, but something keeps us from embracing alternatives. Choose to live car-free in America and you are a "pioneer", an object of curiosity or even disdain.

Maybe we are too conformist, an odd concept in a country of 300 million or so, or maybe we have lost that something that makes us choose to be different.

Of course it usually takes a major event to force change, I wonder what/when/where that will be?

That being said, I'd like Uncle Sam to send me to a European assignment for a few years, I'm looking!


I think that for a large segment of the population the car is considered part of their self image: a status symbol first, mode of transportation second. Driven hard by advertising that pushes that message. When it's considered part of your self image, it's not going to be easy to give up. A bike?? Pffffffffft...;)

That said, do you have an empty In-law apt on your property Velotel? Edit: ;)







William

[#campyuserftw]

I'm pretty sure that most of the developed world's citizens look on in disgust and horror as America, the only member of that group without universal health care, experiences a shutdown of it's government because a small group of fanatics want to prevent any sort of movement towards universal health care.

Nearly every summer we watch in shock as French riots take place. In 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2011, 2013. No place is perfect.

Also, in history class way back when we learned France (founded in 496) was famous for some of the most massive political instability, and not just for a short time period, it was the norm. This trend continued into last century, where France had no government for up to six months:

http://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/71150/francois-goguel/political-instability-in-france

America isn't as bad as we think and France isn't as great as we may hope (is my gist). Perhaps our recent shut down ends this week, our trillions of debt can continue. I hope they do the right thing: pay back the workers who were forced to stay home.

[Ken Robb]

Some other countries are finding that they can't afford to continue all the generous social programs they have been offering and already high taxes are rising. One big reason is declining birth rates since WW2 and better health care have led to fewer workers paying taxes into the "social security" (name varies with different countries) and health care systems while the number of payees increase.

I started paying into Social Security when I got my first job at 12 years old. I don't know what my total contributions were over 50+ years but while it hurt making the payments I consoled myself thinking I would get at least some of it back when I retired. There was the added benefit of knowing that SS would provide some benefits if I became disabled in my youth. As a real estate broker I was considered self-employed even when I worked for big brokerages so I got to pay both sides of SS (twice as much as an employee). The last rate I recall was 6.2% and that was on top of federal and state income taxes.

I wouldn't assume that a US citizen can enjoy all the benefits available in foreign countries to their own citizens should they move abroad.

[csm]

I agree with the idea that the car is a status symbol for many. However, the auto industry is a huge driver of our economy. I say that planning on driving a 2010 Honda Element into the ground.
Of the countries I visited, the only one I could see moving to permanently would be Australia. Though I could be swayed by an exceptional French woman!


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[BCS]

Some other countries are finding that they can't afford to continue all the generous social programs they have been offering and already high taxes are rising..........

I wouldn't assume that a US citizen can enjoy all the benefits available in foreign countries to their own citizens should they move abroad.

+1. Exactly!!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10358569/End-of-free-NHS-care-for-migrants-under-new-bill.html

[elcolombiano]

I am retiring from work. My mother is German. The winters in Europe are cold. I was thinking about living in Europe from Mid April - Mid November and the wintertime in either California (where I live now) or Florida. I was thinking of buying a small motor home and living in it while I am in Europe. Would it be better to buy a property? I guess I could buy a property and store the motor home on it in the winter. What is the best place in France to have as a base for riding. I don't want to always ride alone. Where is a good place to live where there are clubs for either racing or touring that ride during the week and on weekends also?

[Llewellyn]

Of the countries I visited, the only one I could see moving to permanently would be Australia.

Summer here is horrible, but the rest of the year is OK (at least in this part of Oz).

I want to retire to Melbourne, but my wife doesn't want to leave Perth behind completely. We will probably end up dividing our time between the two - summer/autumn in Melbourne and winter/spring in Perth

[oliver1850]

(former location of offensive post)

[93legendti]

On second thought after discussing with Oliver1580...

[Louis]

Um, guys, what does gun ownership in the US have to do with riding bikes in France and Italy?

[#campyuserftw]

Um, guys, what does gun ownership in the US have to do with riding bikes in France and Italy?

Burger King came out with new French fries, and it's war!

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/09/24/burger-king-s-new-french-fries-took-ten-years-to-develop.html

:beer:

[poff]

If I would choose to retire in EU I would pick Bormio in Italy, Innsbruck in Austria, or Kaprun in Austria. Overall Austria would be my first choice.

[MadRocketSci]

If I would choose to retire in EU I would pick Bormio in Italy, Innsbruck in Austria, or Kaprun in Austria. Overall Austria would be my first choice.

but it's full of Austrians!!!

I kid, i kid :) just a joke i heard in switzerland or somewhere...

[rjfr]

You won't have trouble finding a group to ride with in France.

I think just about every larger city in every departement of France has at least one club with rides several times per week. The FFC is racing focused, the FFCT is cyclotourist focused. In Reims we have two FFCT clubs with each having organized rides on Wednesday afternoon and Sunday morning. There are typically 7 to 20 people on each of these rides. There are, in addition another 5 or 6 clubs from surrounding villages with their own schedule of group rides.

It would come down to where you want to ride. What climate and terrain.


I am retiring from work. My mother is German. The winters in Europe are cold. I was thinking about living in Europe from Mid April - Mid November and the wintertime in either California (where I live now) or Florida. I was thinking of buying a small motor home and living in it while I am in Europe. Would it be better to buy a property? I guess I could buy a property and store the motor home on it in the winter. What is the best place in France to have as a base for riding. I don't want to always ride alone. Where is a good place to live where there are clubs for either racing or touring that ride during the week and on weekends also?

[verticaldoug]

Some other countries are finding that they can't afford to continue all the generous social programs they have been offering and already high taxes are rising. One big reason is declining birth rates since WW2 and better health care have led to fewer workers paying taxes into the "social security" (name varies with different countries) and health care systems while the number of payees increase.


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-10-05/david-stockman-explains-keynesian-state-wreck-ahead-sundown-america

Japan, Europe all in the same boat. China maybe worse of all because of the one child policy. Eventually, the system will have to be changed. Realistically, retirement age needs to be raised to 78.

[Ralph]

Being retired......I prefer warm weather to cold. Can deal with heat better than cold. Pools, early AM riding, etc. For riding, prefer flat and rolling hills to mountains. Where I live is perfect for me (don't like S Florida....too flat). Low taxes, no income tax in Florida, etc. Do admit to wanting to be gone from here a couple months in summer. Can visit cool mountains a day away any time I want. Can understand moving to Europe for right woman. European lifestyle sounds great.

[oldpotatoe]

Great post Hank, have you written before(I kid, great writing and photography skills, i know where Mat(T) gets it.

I have ridden in France and Italy..and if I won the lottery I would have a winter home in Sicily. I KNOW it's not Italy(I jest!, but don't say Italy in Sicily)...far enough south to be warm in the winter.

Some of the prettiest riding was around Palermo, along the coast..warm, sunny, very Italiano...loved it

[Ahneida Ride]

Americans have forgotten that having a modern country is expensive and under Reagan decided they wanted to do the country on the cheap.

National Debt was 1 Trillion in 1980. 3 Trillion in 1988.
200 years to reach 1 Trillion and 8 years to triple it.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=p33EN20xmuOVmM&tbnid=TkQVNmRtf3BBbM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brillig.com%2Fdebt_clock%2Ffa q.html&ei=4cRSUt3bIJD94APo64GoDA&bvm=bv.53537100,d.dmg&psig=AFQjCNG8CkUNZFtZlvbx6TZTxtVZ6G9kJw&ust=1381242375432017

Now it's 16.8 Trillion.

The Feudal Preserve is now counterfeiting 85 Billion shopping coupons per month.

and that is just the "official" debt, much of which is owed to a private
banking cartel that creates it's coupons by typing numbers into a computer
spreadsheet.

Estimates of actual obligations exceed 100 Trillion.

[velotel]

Answering some of the questions.

From Mr. Pink
<Did you know any French before you moved there, and, how long did it take you to feel comfortable conversing in the language once you moved, if at all?

(EDIT: duh. "I arrived not speaking a word of french." So, are you conversant now? How did you learn? A school, maybe?)>

Yes, I’m effectively fluent but with lots of grammatical errors and a strong accent. I can also write in french and type on a french keyboard without looking but writing in french is very slow for me. As I always say, there are two french languages, one oral and one written and they have no relationship at all. The french could toss out have the letters in a word much of the time since they’re not pronounced, unlike in italian where every letter is pronounced. Learned by listening to tapes in the cassette player every time I drove and just by (slowly) talking to people in stores and markets. Never took a course. My french would be better if I had. But I’ve given talks in french and get by quite well all in all. Oddly enough lots of french like my accent. Have no idea why.

<If you had a choice of any town in the Piedmonte to buy that small home, what would that town be?>

No idea, finding the place would have been much of the pleasure. Probably south of Asti, down in the wine country, maybe over towards the mountains.

From alancw3
<hank, thanks for the information. great to get your first hand perspective and experience. glad you are living your dream!!! a question. do you have to file income tax returns there or is the tax revenue based solely on the VAT?>
Yes, there are income taxes in France, higher than in the states. Not sure on this but legally I believe anyone living as a resident in France has to declare income earned in other countries. On the other hand if the other country doesn’t tell France and the earner doesn’t either, how would France know?

From Climb01742
<Hank, thank you for the thread. Retiring, or simply living, in Europe is a dream of mine. Do you know if there are any restrictions on non-French citizens buying real estate in France? I know in some EU countries there are. Wonder how many of us are living vicariously through your posts?>
That I know of there are no restrictions on owning real estate. There was an american from Aspen, forgotten his name, won Indy one year, owned a gorgeous place near St Tropez. Maxn and his wife are american and they own their home here.

From #campuserftw
<Are the French looking to retire to California, Colorado, or Austin? >
None that I’ve ever met but most of the french I know love spending time in the states.

<We always want what we don't have, to be where we're not, and forget to enjoy what we have, and where we are; Budweiser is huge in Ireland and go figure that:>
Impossible to figure that. Maybe they’ve decided that after all these years they don’t like beer so they drink Budweiser.

<Many or most retirees have concerns about their money, taxes, healthcare, and leaving behind their property/dinero to their families. In terms of taxes, France has "social-charges" and stiff tax:>
Yep, they do, though not sure what you mean by ‘social charges’. Not sure taxes are stiff but they are high. On the other hand much comes back too. Like beautifully maintained roads where pot holes have the life expectancy of a fruit fly.

<I can understand the mystique of France and Italy for two-wheeled enthusiasts, vacations, perhaps even a place to hang up one's saddle, I do, but America has golden nuggets of prime cycling, where gravity is the same, and finances work heavily in our favor.>
All the more reason to stay there.

From elcolombiano
<I am retiring from work. My mother is German. The winters in Europe are cold. I was thinking about living in Europe from Mid April - Mid November and the wintertime in either California (where I live now) or Florida. I was thinking of buying a small motor home and living in it while I am in Europe. Would it be better to buy a property? I guess I could buy a property and store the motor home on it in the winter. What is the best place in France to have as a base for riding. I don't want to always ride alone. Where is a good place to live where there are clubs for either racing or touring that ride during the week and on weekends also?>
Property is expensive as a rule with taxes and maintenance plus the initial purchase price. Like my wife liked to tell me years ago when the subject of a vacation home came up: with the money that would cost we could take lots and lots and lots of vacations and always stay in expensive hotels and change places regularly and have money left over. On the other hand if you were planning on being pretty much stable over here and you enjoy having your own home and especially if you enjoy a garden, property would be the way to go. Prices vary enormously. There are lots of places in France, I’m thinking particularly of central France, the massif central where the riding is terrific as a matter of fact, that to an extent has been desertified (I know, not a word), as in people have left to go where there is work and there’s no one to buy their homes. Even more true in Italy where lots of scenic hilltop villages are all but deserted and property can be bought cheaply.
Property that is not buildable, as in authorization to build a house on it has not been granted, is way cheaper than buildable land and yes, a motorhome could be stored on the land. Could have security concerns though. Bike clubs are everywhere and popular with lots of choices of types of clubs, as in racing, touring, whatever. Lots and lots of older rider in the clubs and since they’re retired, they do rides all the time and all year long, depending on where they are obviously.

Cheers

[Marz]

I agree with the idea that the car is a status symbol for many. However, the auto industry is a huge driver of our economy. I say that planning on driving a 2010 Honda Element into the ground.
Of the countries I visited, the only one I could see moving to permanently would be Australia. Though I could be swayed by an exceptional French woman!


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Welcome. No guns and we have universal healthcare, sun and some great riding roads although lots of aggressive drivers.

Can't have everything.

France sounds like heaven, relative to USA, even with the rioting.

[Marz]

Great post Hank, have you written before(I kid, great writing and photography skills, i know where Mat(T) gets it.

I have ridden in France and Italy..and if I won the lottery I would have a winter home in Sicily. I KNOW it's not Italy(I jest!, but don't say Italy in Sicily)...far enough south to be warm in the winter.

Some of the prettiest riding was around Palermo, along the coast..warm, sunny, very Italiano...loved it

As a person of Sicilian heritage, I agree. And the food is fantastic.

Although culture is characterized by close-knit family and networking.

[Mr. Pink]

Oddly enough lots of french like my accent. Have no idea why.




Awesome. So, I could be that British guy I knew In college who got so much tail because women melted at the sound of his accent. Even though he didn't have much to say. Works both ways.

Thanks for the answers.

One more though: Why don't you ski anymore? I mean, you live right in the middle of one of the greatest places on Earth to ski. You make the place sound so good, I would consider an entire year there.

[maxn]

Taxes: (with the caveat that I am not retired) In my experience, French property taxes, not being calculated as a percentage of the assessed value, are way less than in the states. My French job is exempt from French income tax but I need to report any US income to France. As a US resident living abroad, we have the distinction of being one of the few nationalities to tax regardless of residency. The US also wants to know how much money you make in France, but there are exemptions. It's a little complicated, basically. Finally, both countries have new and strict reporting regulations on offshore accounts, so all accounts need to be reported to both countries, or you face big fines. You do not need to report the value of the accounts.

House: We had no restrictions, but if you need a French loan, it might be difficult. We had to prove we had the income to pay the mortgage, which needs to be >a certain % of your net, like anywhere else I think.


Cost of living is generally higher here, but as Hank said, there are exceptions. One of the best of these is that the cost of medical services is much less than the states (without even talking about medical insurance). The actual cost of a visit to the doctor is something like 25 euro. I recently had allergy and lung tests, and it all cost 90 euro. I think it is probably 5X that in the states at least for the allergy tests. In this example, both are fully reimbursed by even the basic healthcare. In fact, if you have the "carte vitale", which most people do, you just hand them the card and it is paid for directly without any out of pocket at all. I am ineligible for that card, being outside the French system for the moment.

High quality food and produce seem easier to get, and for less money. Think of France as one gigantic Whole Foods, but with lower prices, less attitude and more difficult parking :).

and re: riots, I don't think they are ever widespread. One of the national pastimes seems to be burning the odd car/trashcan/busstop though. I think there is probably more property crime compared to the states, but much lower violent crime. It really varies by where you are obviously. Maybe not a good idea to retire to the Parisian banlieu. Even going through bad parts of town around here, I never felt the kind of imminent danger that I felt while living in East Oakland FWIW, but you could say that about most places!

[oldpotatoe]

Taxes: (with the caveat that I am not retired) In my experience, French property taxes, not being calculated as a percentage of the assessed value, are way less than in the states. My French job is exempt from French income tax but I need to report any US income to France. As a US resident living abroad, we have the distinction of being one of the few nationalities to tax regardless of residency. The US also wants to know how much money you make in France, but there are exemptions. It's a little complicated, basically. Finally, both countries have new and strict reporting regulations on offshore accounts, so all accounts need to be reported to both countries, or you face big fines. You do not need to report the value of the accounts.

House: We had no restrictions, but if you need a French loan, it might be difficult. We had to prove we had the income to pay the mortgage, which needs to be >a certain % of your net, like anywhere else I think.


Cost of living is generally higher here, but as Hank said, there are exceptions. One of the best of these is that the cost of medical services is much less than the states (without even talking about medical insurance). The actual cost of a visit to the doctor is something like 25 euro. I recently had allergy and lung tests, and it all cost 90 euro. I think it is probably 5X that in the states at least for the allergy tests. In this example, both are fully reimbursed by even the basic healthcare. In fact, if you have the "carte vitale", which most people do, you just hand them the card and it is paid for directly without any out of pocket at all. I am ineligible for that card, being outside the French system for the moment.

High quality food and produce seem easier to get, and for less money. Think of France as one gigantic Whole Foods, but with lower prices, less attitude and more difficult parking :).

and re: riots, I don't think they are ever widespread. One of the national pastimes seems to be burning the odd car/trashcan/busstop though. I think there is probably more property crime compared to the states, but much lower violent crime. It really varies by where you are obviously. Maybe not a good idea to retire to the Parisian banlieu. Even going through bad parts of town around here, I never felt the kind of imminent danger that I felt while living in East Oakland FWIW, but you could say that about most places!

tee hee

Burning couches is a common pastime in the republic.

[redir]

My girlfriend wants to do this ,Costa Rica,Thailand ,I am saying Spain .
San Francisco has better riding than where I was in Florida ,
Cheers :beer:

Costa Rica is a really nice place if you ask me. I could easily live there. Environmentally conscious friendly people and a beautiful country. It's also not all that far from the States.

---

Velotel you seem like the kind of guy that is willing to take risks and just go and do it. I used to be like that till the reality of money and future hit me some time around the age of 30 hahahha. But I plan on getting it back some day. I have not been to Italy, was actually planning to go this summer but it fell through. But of all the EU countries I visited I really like Spain.

[mack]

Moving to France or Italy, that is applying for residency, can be a daunting process and certainly, it's my impression, more difficult in Italy.....this is more like a 'pleasant fiction' for most US, or non-EU, citizens. It is indeed my pleasant fiction as I have spent countless hours imagining the how, where and whens....
What eases this prospect is marriage or significant ancestral relationships, none of which seem to be in my immediate background.

I only make this point, not to dampen the enthusiasm of this thread, but if anyone cares to enlighten my retirement path facilitating such a move, I welcome any such comments!
Vive -mack