Montezuma's revenge: The next Serot ... er, Saratoga

[Elefantino]

The first bike from the new/old company in Saratoga Springs is out.

It's a Tomac (http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/09/25/ib13-tomac-returns-to-bikes-with-saratoga-made-consumer-direct-titanium-montezuma/).

Some parts look familiar.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . but indeed an unfortunate model name.

Will they next introduce the "Montehall" and make you a great on it? :rolleyes:

BBD

[KidWok]

Nicely done...pricing is very competitive too.

Tai

[jpw]

what's that head tube/ steerer tube size?

[dd74]

The frame is drilled for Di2. Provided these are the same builders with the same Ti as from the Serotta days, I thought it was decided then that drilling Ti for electronic was a structural no-no. Hmmm, I wonder what's changed...;)

[Chromoroboto]

I thought the former Serotta does every single part in-house, but now, according to that report, dropouts and headtube are from Paragon. Nothing wrong with Paragon parts at all, but can this be one cost saving measure by Saratoga to bring the price down?

[dekindy]

So how can they build a frame for someone else that adds another layer of cost/profit at this price point? Lower grade titanium and carbon, different manufacturing technique?

Frame price does not include fork?

[mike p]

Very nice frame a reasonable price. I also like the option of supplying your own top tube for 500.00 less!

Mike

[jpw]

The frame is drilled for Di2. Provided these are the same builders with the same Ti as from the Serotta days, I thought it was decided then that drilling Ti for electronic was a structural no-no. Hmmm, I wonder what's changed...;)

the duration and cost of warranty?

[dd74]

the duration and cost of warranty?
Yep, and need to make the initial buyout/firing of Serotta worth the monetary effort.

[old fat man]

So how can they build a frame for someone else that adds another layer of cost/profit at this price point? Lower grade titanium and carbon, different manufacturing technique?

Frame price does not include fork?

they've shed themselves of the debt they incurred. No more CA carbon facility and probably didn't pay a handful of outstanding bills that are "Serotta's problem."

[TimD]

they've shed themselves of the debt they incurred. No more CA carbon facility and probably didn't pay a handful of outstanding bills that are "Serotta's problem."

When one buys a company one (typically) assumes the liabilities of that company. Failure to disclose any liabilities during the due diligence phase may constitute fraud. That Serotta had liabilities (as you imply, but have you seen their books?) is neither surprising, unusual, nor somehow wrong.

[cmg]

Bike looks cool overall. Glad the employees are working. The shifters remind of the headress from the planet of apes. it's a bit tall, must be where the hydraulics are.

[jpw]

I thought the former Serotta does every single part in-house, but now, according to that report, dropouts and headtube are from Paragon. Nothing wrong with Paragon parts at all, but can this be one cost saving measure by Saratoga to bring the price down?

http://www.paragonmachineworks.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=HT0005

one of these? it looks similar. it gives good steerer tube/ fork options. what's not to like?

i'm not taken by the look of the dropouts, but that can be worked out.

[rwsaunders]

they've shed themselves of the debt they incurred. No more CA carbon facility and probably didn't pay a handful of outstanding bills that are "Serotta's problem."

Agreed...most likely some vendors were left holding the bag.

[dave thompson]

they've shed themselves of the debt they incurred. No more CA carbon facility and probably didn't pay a handful of outstanding bills that are "Serotta's problem."

Serotta never had any ownership of the carbon facility in Poway, California. Mike Lopez owns it.

[nicrump]

Nicely done...pricing is very competitive too.

Tai

indeed great pricing but with 3 layers of US margin (saratoga/distributor/LBS) is it sustainable?

[Mikej]

Group that bought Serotta had better credit and was able to restructure debt to free up some cash and build a competitive price frame. More than likely not the same material used for a Legend. Also, in house parts like head tubes, drop outs and bottom brackets and such are probably expensive vs paragon sourced parts. Plus they could possibly sell the machinery for additional cash. As for the above post about di2 drilling, I've never heard it to be a no no, they've been drilling water bottle and head tubes badge holes for decades. Tomac just collects a royalty, Johnny t is not really involved. Montezuma is the county where his ranch is.

[Kirk Pacenti]

indeed great pricing but with 3 layers of US margin (saratoga/distributor/LBS) is it sustainable?

I'm pretty sure its consumer direct.

Cheers,
KP