Impressions of Moots Vamoots?

[Climb01742]

For those of you who've owned or ridden a Vamoots, what did you think? Likes? Any dislikes? And three specific questions: what sizes tires can a Vamoots handle? Who makes the moots fork? And anyone run their Vamoots with a Moots seat post...if yes, do you dig the post? Thank you in advance.

[oldpotatoe]

For those of you who've owned or ridden a Vamoots, what did you think? Likes? Any dislikes? And three specific questions: what sizes tires can a Vamoots handle? Who makes the moots fork? And anyone run their Vamoots with a Moots seat post...if yes, do you dig the post? Thank you in advance.

No dislikes but I am admittedly biased(number 1 Moots dealer in the US).

LOVE my Vamoots. Simple, does everything it supposed to do, well.

Love their philosophy to not jump on every bike design gizmo that comes down the pike. No carbon plugs, no carbon butt ends.

Best welds in the industry, very 'centered' company. Call and talk to a person.

Probably some thin-ish 28s would fit but get one spec'ed for long reach brakes if ya want more.

Fork made in Asia, same place some other manufacturers forks are made, like Enve.

Have a SP and stem...titanium, expensive, does nothing in terms of ride comfort, being Ti, but they don't anyway, carbon, aluminum, titanium..looks COOL.

[texbike]

I love my Vamoots! It's really my go-to bike and sees most of my miles. It's older and has an Ouzo Pro on it so I can't really speak to the new forks. I've had 25s on it, but it seems like it would be a tight fit with 28s.

They're wonderful, simple, beautifully-crafted bikes. As much as I love my Colnago and Merckx options, the Vamoots will probably be the last one to go.

Texbike

[thegunner]

having ridden high-end production carbon and moderately nice steel bikes - shiz, the vamoots blows all of them away.

yeah, it's an extra couple of pounds over the CF bikes, but it rides like velvet :banana: no regrets.

i have 25's on there and i'm sure it could sport 28's and a resounding yes to the seatpost. it's simple, but it's incredible craftsmanship.

[jmoore]

I've never heard a bad word about Moots bikes. Ever.

[thegunner]

I've never heard a bad word about Moots bikes. Ever.

the decals could use some work.

[texbike]

I've never heard a bad word about Moots bikes. Ever.

I believe that 1Centaur had one several years ago and wasn't crazy about it. I'm sure that he'll chime in with more info...

And yes, the decals are a weakness.

Texbike

[bobswire]

Best bike frame out of the hundred or more I've owned bar none. I only sold it because of where I ride, mostly urban. The Moots deserved to be ridden on the open road.

[BobbyJones]

Tires: 23c GP4000 & 4-Seasons on HED C2s no problem. 25c Gatorskins on Fulcrum 5's no problem either.

Fork: Running the Moots fork. From the source: "Moots forks are not made by Enve. They are designed by us, and built for us through a top carbon builder overseas"

No comment on the seatpost.

Overall: I've been riding mine since the end of June. Built up with DA7800 / HED C2's. If you're interested in one, do not hesitate. It's been ridden a lot in a bunch of different conditions (some close to single track) and it seems to do everything well.

[fiamme red]

the decals could use some work.That, and there's no paint option. Some don't care for the industrial look of bare titanium.

[akelman]

I believe that 1Centaur had one several years ago and wasn't crazy about it. I'm sure that he'll chime in with more info...

And yes, the decals are a weakness.

Texbike

You may be thinking of me. But in retrospect, I think the issue was that my Vamoots had an Enve fork, which might not have been ideal. And I was running carbon hoops at that time, which made a ride that should have been silky smooth somewhat less so. All of which is to say, I think my decisions might have been the problem -- as usual.

[Climb01742]

And I was running carbon hoops at that time, which made a ride that should have been silky smooth somewhat less so.

this raises a good question: what wheels/tires complement a Vamoots well? bobbyjones mentioned C2s. what are others running?

thanks everyone for some great feedback.

[christian]

When the sum criticisms of your bikes are: "Your stickers suck!" I guess you're doing something right.

I rode Happycampyer's RSL once. It was pretty darn impressive. Reminded me of an MXL with 5 pounds of undetectable buoyancy.

[Ken Robb]

My Hampsten Strada Bianca was built by MOOTS w/YBB rear end and Alpha Q fork for canti brakes. It fits 700x32 tires with room to spare but I usually ride it on 700x25. It is such a wonderful do-it-all bike I sold my excellent Legend ti.
It also has a beautiful paint job that I like better than the plain MOOTS ti.

This suggests that you could probably order a MOOTS with similar features or get a Hampsten. I'm not sure that MOOTS is still building ti bikes for Hampsten.

[texbike]

this raises a good question: what wheels/tires complement a Vamoots well? boobyjones mentioned C2s. what are others running?


Early Ksyrium SSCs (pre SL) usually with Michelin Pro __ s on mine (running a set of Hutchinson carbons on it at the moment). They're perfect with the bike.

Texbike

[happycampyer]

In college, a guy I knew used to sing part of a verse from the Kinks' song "Lola," but with his own twist:

"Well I'm not the world's most passionate man,
But I'm pretty close to it..."

The Moots Vamoots isn't the world's best bike, but it's pretty close to it. And for the price, it's very hard to beat, if in fact it can be beat. The search for something that is the nth degree better (and "better" is relative) comes at a cost, which is often significant. To me at least, the Vamoots isn't super stiff, but it's not a noodle, either, and it's really smooth. And for a ti bike, it's relatively light. Try to get stiffer but just as smooth and light, add $1.5K... want to get stiffer and lighter but almost as smooth, add $1.5K....

A really smart thing that Moots did back in 2010 is change the stock geometry for the standard Vamoots. Prior to that, the Vamoots (with a level/levelish toptube) and the Compact shared the exact same geometry. With the change, the Vamoots now technically comes in three versions (standard, CR and RSL), but the standard and CR are at the same price point and are the successors to the old Vamoots and Compact. The difference is that the standard Vamoots has a more relaxed stage race geometry, similar to say, Colnago. It also has slightly longer chainstays. (The Vamoots CR is almost unchanged from the old Compact.)

For tire clearance, the chainstays on the stock Vamoots are ~.07cm longer than on the CR, so a 27-28mm tire should fit (the problem I had with the older Vamoots/Compacts was clearance at the front derailleur clamp). I'm not sure of the tire clearance of the Moots forks, so either someone who has one can chime in, or you can call Moots. If the Moots fork won't clear a 27-28mm tire, you can use an Enve fork, which will (but not necessarily in all cases with Campagnolo calipers).

As OP said, the forks are made in Taiwan for Moots directly, by the same company that manufactures forks for Trek, Enve and lots of others.

Re the Moots post, I would note that the clamp mechanism of the cinch post is mechanically one of the most elegant designs out there—it allows for independent fore and aft, and tilt adjustment. The seatpost and stem (and spacers) also happen to look great with the frames (not to mention other frames). Functionally, I would agree that they are not necessarily better than much less expensive alternatives.

[christian]

I'm not sure that MOOTS is still building ti bikes for Hampsten.They're not.

The Hampco Ti builders were Moots, then Kent Eriksen, then Kent and in-house as options, and now in-house only. Hampsten used to use Dave Levy at Ti Cycles too, I think, but I think that was only for steel.

I think the welders for Kent Eriksen in that time were probably Chris Moore (2011-2012) and Brad Bingham (late 2012). Max Kullaway (Hampsten/333fab) does the in-house work for Hampsten. I've seen examples of each and they are all amazing. I don't think I'd let that determine who I got a bike from.

[rePhil]

Mine is a Compact. It fits me and rides great. After 28 years of riding, it's the one bike I will never part with willingly. I wanted to try Ti and was fortunate to find a used one for a fair price in the classifieds here.
I like the little touches like the welded on bottle bosses (no rivnuts) and seat collar. I personally like the industrial look and while I agree the decals are not the best, they are easily replaced and readily available. Moots will also refinish them to look like new.

[Idris Icabod]

the decals could use some work.

I've had my Compact SL for 10 years, the decals were cracked when I bought it new but the great thing is that you can get on Moots.com and get a new set. The ones I installed a few months ago seem better than the first set.

I'm probably selling mine locally because I'm not riding much anymore, but it is hard to let it go. I've had a couple of Colnagos, Argon 18, Giant and some more during that 10 years but the Moots saw the most use.

[tuscanyswe]

Best bike i ever had. Mine is a compact too. Like happycampyer said, they changed the geo abit so if you want the more aggressive one yet a level toptube you would need to get a used pre 2010 vamoots.

Cant think of a better value frame than a used moots. New works to if you got the cash for it :)

[BobbyJones]

That, and there's no paint option. Some don't care for the industrial look of bare titanium.

There's always a paint option...just not from the factory.

[christian]

A really smart thing that Moots did back in 2010 is change the stock geometry for the standard Vamoots. Prior to that, the Vamoots (with a level/levelish toptube) and the Compact shared the exact same geometry. With the change, the Vamoots now technically comes in three versions (standard, CR and RSL), but the standard and CR are at the same price point and are the successors to the old Vamoots and Compact. The difference is that the standard Vamoots has a more relaxed stage race geometry, similar to say, Colnago. It also has slightly longer chainstays. (The Vamoots CR is almost unchanged from the old Compact.)


Wow, I'd never realized this and had always thought of Moots as cool, but sort of funky geo, not great clearance, and too-short headtubes, but the post-2010 Vamoots Standard geo is awesome! 56 square, 160mm HT, 415mm CS. I wish the STA were a quarter degree slacker, but that's nearly perfect stage-race geo.

[happycampyer]

Wow, I'd never realized this and had always thought of Moots as cool, but sort of funky geo, not great clearance, and too-short headtubes, but the post-2010 Vamoots Standard geo is awesome! 56 square, 160mm HT, 415mm CS. I wish the STA were a quarter degree slacker, but that's nearly perfect stage-race geo.I don't think anyone at Moots would admit it, but I think a lot of the Gran Paradisos that Moots built for Steve H shared this geometry/geometry philosophy. They will say that they sold more Compacts that Vamoots, and that a lot of custom requests for level toptube bikes were in that vein, so it only made sense to make a stock run of sizes in that style...

The custom geo of my RSL is almost identical to the new, 2010- Vamoots geo, btw.

[John H.]

Others have said more than I could about a Vamoots in terms of geometry and ride quality.
Given that you want extra clearance, why not get a Kent Eriksen?
He could make you a bike that had all of the characteristics of the Vamoots but more clearance.
Price would be the same as a Vamoots unless you have a line on a used Vamoots.

[mcteague]

I considered Moots 10 years ago when I ended up with a Seven Axiom. The finish was the main reason, just prefer the brushed look.

Tim

[alancw3]

I considered Moots 10 years ago when I ended up with a Seven Axiom. The finish was the main reason, just prefer the brushed look.

Tim

+1 i have always wanted a vamoots. couldn't get by the industrial finish of the bikes. that's why i ended up with a polished serotta. love the polished ti look. still want a moots though.

[Chris]

There's always a paint option...just not from the factory.

Spectrum powder works did mine. Awesome work. Super durable. Never had a paint chip after two years.

[beeatnik]

What's Va short for?

[enr1co]

There really should be an "Wallet Danger Alert" on this thread - the posts just inflamed the "need a Moots" bug in me ;) :help:

[wgp]

Add me to the Moots lovers - my c. 2008 Vamoots, purchased used off this forum, is my primary bike. Bill (Happycamper) waxed eloquently about the details of the differences, and I'd be curious to try the "newer" Vamoots geometry, but I will likely never sell my Vamoots...

Well ... maybe to get a RSL, though I'd have to go with a threaded BB option on a new RSL (Campy guy, and Campy doesn't seem to play nice with BB30)!

I love the look of the Moots stem and seatpost too, and don't forget "Moots enhanced" King Ti cages to match the bead-blasted finish of the frame.

Anyways get the Vamoots!

[alpsantos]

Love my Moots Vamoots. I don't ride it as often as I'd like since I got a Psychlo X but what a great bike. I'll be passing on my Moots to my children when they get older. Moots for life! :)

[jpw]

never owned a Moots, but i have drooled over them at shows. Then again, i've always felt that the welds are too much of a feature of the frames. They're exquisite, but just have a little too much 'presence', whereas Serotta welds don't register.

one fellow i know described Moots bikes as "precision plumbing". sorry.

[thegunner]

There really should be an "Wallet Danger Alert" on this thread - the posts just inflamed the "need a Moots" bug in me ;) :help:

also you get to enjoy being part of the club haha

[d_douglas]

My LBS pushes out lots of Moots for a small city. I dropped by yesterday and they had just built one for a customer that hasn't left the shop yet.

Super Record, hard ano H+Son archetypes/King R45, Thomson stem/bar.

It was dazzling. I considered them for my CX bike but chose a cheaper option - it wasn't for reasons of performance or quality, as I have never heard anything negative about their bikes.

[veloduffer]

As a current Moots owner, I'm more blas� about he bike. It's a fine bike and rides well, but I find it on par with my 2013 Madone 6 and prefer my Parlee to both. It rides as well as the many ti bikes that I have owned (Cambridge built Merlin, Lynskey built Litespeed, Seven Axiom, Seroota). I actually like my ti Kish more, even though it is an all-rounder, but it was custom made for me. I would recommend looking at Kish - custom for the same $$ as a stock Moots.

[S2H]

To answer the question about wheels, I have Zondas and Michelin Pro 4 tires.

Actually, this is just a shameless excuse to show off my baby...

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/02/9y6uqe8e.jpg

[S2H]

Also, that 3T post is like the Moots one in that it allows for angle and fore/aft adjustments independent of one another. Except it's aluminum, so you save like $300.

[d_douglas]

I would recommend looking at Kish - custom for the same $$ as a stock Moots.



Yes, this is actually the only criticism I could make of Moots. I chose Desalvo because I got custom geometry for a fair bit less than a Moots, so since i am cost conscious, it was an easy-ish choice.

Every time I see a Moots on the road, my heart flutters a bit though; they are always very refined.

[S2H]

Here's one more for good measure.

http://imageshack.us/a/img24/9950/qgqb.jpg

[SlackMan]

A couple of people have already mentioned the possibility of a custom Ti frame for even less money than a stock Moots. DeSalvo is another custom Ti that offers custom for less than a stock Moots. I hope this isn't viewed as thread-jacking, but is there an offsetting advantage to a Moots over the custom alternatives that cost less?

[PaMtbRider]

. I hope this isn't viewed as thread-jacking, but is there an offsetting advantage to a Moots over the custom alternatives that cost less?

Resale value

[Climb01742]

There are certainly many good custom ti builders out there. DeSalvo is someone I've thought about. He looks top-notch.

But Moots seems to offer a few pluses on their side: maybe I can find a good used VaMoots. If I go new, Moots feels like a known quantity/quality. Some of my custom experiences have been, frankly, disappointing. And I'd imagine the lead time for getting a new VaMoots is much shorter than customer. And oh yes, resale, though that's not something I'd like to contemplate before even getting one.;)

PS The spare industrial look of Moots sorta floats my boat for ti.

[christian]

I'd guess the average resale value of a custom Ti bike is <40% of MSRP. The resale of stock Vamootses seems to be 60% of MSRP. That's a fair bit of scratch. (And, since I buy mostly used, why I've never had a chance to own one.)

[oldpotatoe]

Yes, this is actually the only criticism I could make of Moots. I chose Desalvo because I got custom geometry for a fair bit less than a Moots, so since i am cost conscious, it was an easy-ish choice.

Every time I see a Moots on the road, my heart flutters a bit though; they are always very refined.

Apples and oranges. Erickson, Kish, a lot of others(DeSalvo), are consumer direct so...

Moots has a dealer set up, so you can actually ride one before you buy..at a dealer.

Margin setup completely different with a 'double' margin going to small, direct frame builders. For comparison, IF, Seven, previously serotta, are comparible. Kish, Firefly, Kent..the same 'model'.

[Ahneida Ride]

I've never heard a bad word about Moots bikes. Ever.

Same here .....

[oldpotatoe]

A couple of people have already mentioned the possibility of a custom Ti frame for even less money than a stock Moots. DeSalvo is another custom Ti that offers custom for less than a stock Moots. I hope this isn't viewed as thread-jacking, but is there an offsetting advantage to a Moots over the custom alternatives that cost less?

See above plus..35 years of experience, refined product, big dealer network to actually ride one...

[rnhood]

I've always considered Moots the defining benchmark in a Ti bike. I would get it then buy a custom if you ever feel the need. But I doubt a custom will buy a better bike. After all, if you watch the way Moots builds them they are custom for all practical purposes. And the weld quality is just superb, road, mtg, cross and anything in between. Nothing is a step down in their line.

[Idris Icabod]

A couple of people have already mentioned the possibility of a custom Ti frame for even less money than a stock Moots. DeSalvo is another custom Ti that offers custom for less than a stock Moots. I hope this isn't viewed as thread-jacking, but is there an offsetting advantage to a Moots over the custom alternatives that cost less?

My friend has a Desalvo, Mike does build an amazing frame. One advantage of a Moots is the short lead time, I had mine in a week. My friend waited the best part of 9 months for his. I updated this post because I thought it was unfair, the longer than usual time was due to numerous factors, few of De Salvo's making. Apparantly sending it off for paint was the longest wait which if you wanted a painted Moots would also add to the wait time equally.

[tuscanyswe]

I'd guess the average resale value of a custom Ti bike is <40% of MSRP. The resale of stock Vamootses seems to be 60% of MSRP. That's a fair bit of scratch. (And, since I buy mostly used, why I've never had a chance to own one.)

You should Christian! Im not finding any orange 57s anyways :)

[happycampyer]

I'd guess the average resale value of a custom Ti bike is <40% of MSRP. The resale of stock Vamootses seems to be 60% of MSRP. That's a fair bit of scratch. (And, since I buy mostly used, why I've never had a chance to own one.)I keep a pretty regular eye out on ebay for these things, and I don't recall seeing a post-2009 size 56 Vamoots come up. Interestingly, Moots is the only company whose bikes I have always bought new (with the exception of a YBB SL for my wife*).

*Oh, and the Psychlo-X YYB disc, which is a total experiment.

[tuscanyswe]

I keep a pretty regular eye out on ebay for these things, and I don't recall seeing a post-2009 size 56 Vamoots come up. Interestingly, Moots is the only company whose bikes I have always bought new (with the exception of a YBB SL for my wife).

I spent almost a year searching for a 59 on ebay and nothing.
So Moots are the only bikes i bought new aswell. I did buy a 57.5 used to find out it was too small before i cave in tho.

[1centaur]

I got a Vamoots (custom geo same as my Parlee Z1x) a few years ago to see if there was anything special about it to make me want to ride it sometimes instead of carbon fiber. In general, the answer to that question is no. Metal is metal, as I like to say. Nice welds, well aligned, good look, but I never understand smoothness when talking metal vs. CF, and it does not have "resonance" as one poster back then noted which was the hook that sucked me in. Not snappy enough, nor light enough, nor smooth enough to compete with a good CF frame. I won't persuade people who ride metal and prefer it to CF, but just wanted to note this for CF riders who wonder when they hear people wax poetic.

If it's a winter's day when I'll be all bundled up and know I won't enjoy the ride that much but want to get out for exercise, I'll pick the Moots for some variety, but I never pick it if the weather is nice. That was the bike that persuaded me I would never buy a metal bike again. If an archetype of the best of metal doesn't do it for me, nothing will.

[christian]

I don't recall seeing a post-2009 size 56 Vamoots come up.When you do, I trust you'll call my cell phone or send me a text message as soon as humanly possible. Or do the neighborly thing and just buy it for me and let me know how much I owe you via Paypal?

[GT2R]

I got a Vamoots (custom geo same as my Parlee Z1x) a few years ago to see if there was anything special about it to make me want to ride it sometimes instead of carbon fiber. In general, the answer to that question is no. Metal is metal, as I like to say. Nice welds, well aligned, good look, but I never understand smoothness when talking metal vs. CF, and it does not have "resonance" as one poster back then noted which was the hook that sucked me in. Not snappy enough, nor light enough, nor smooth enough to compete with a good CF frame. I won't persuade people who ride metal and prefer it to CF, but just wanted to note this for CF riders who wonder when they hear people wax poetic.

If it's a winter's day when I'll be all bundled up and know I won't enjoy the ride that much but want to get out for exercise, I'll pick the Moots for some variety, but I never pick it if the weather is nice. That was the bike that persuaded me I would never buy a metal bike again. If an archetype of the best of metal doesn't do it for me, nothing will.

Interesting that you say this. I have a semi-custom Compact SL that I have ridden exclusively for 7yrs. I am very satisfied with my Moots. Tomorrow, my new to me Look 585 f/f/hs arrive and the decision making begins on building it up. I am really interested and pretty excited to compare.

I originally built my bike with an Easton fork but then bought a Moots fork which looks a lot like an Alpha-Q.

[veloduffer]

I got a Vamoots (custom geo same as my Parlee Z1x) a few years ago to see if there was anything special about it to make me want to ride it sometimes instead of carbon fiber. In general, the answer to that question is no. Metal is metal, as I like to say. Nice welds, well aligned, good look, but I never understand smoothness when talking metal vs. CF, and it does not have "resonance" as one poster back then noted which was the hook that sucked me in. Not snappy enough, nor light enough, nor smooth enough to compete with a good CF frame. I won't persuade people who ride metal and prefer it to CF, but just wanted to note this for CF riders who wonder when they hear people wax poetic.

If it's a winter's day when I'll be all bundled up and know I won't enjoy the ride that much but want to get out for exercise, I'll pick the Moots for some variety, but I never pick it if the weather is nice. That was the bike that persuaded me I would never buy a metal bike again. If an archetype of the best of metal doesn't do it for me, nothing will.

Same here. May be because we both have Parlees, which I consider a terrific example of a carbon bike.

[jpw]

does moots drill the down tube for electronic cable routing?

[oldpotatoe]

does moots drill the down tube for electronic cable routing?

Yes, been doing EPS and di2 plumbing for a while and also now for the EPS internal battery. Hole right between the DT bottle bosses for external battery if ya want it there, which I recommend. Plus the one up closer to the head tube for the interface wire. Never had an issue.

As for preference for one material or another, completely personal. I owned carbon, sold carbon and similar to 1centaur, the reason I'll never own a carbon frame. Not impressed by any of them, even at wholesale or EP.

[happycampyer]

To 1Centaur and Veloduffer, I don't disagree with you�I have several carbon bikes that overall I like better than the Vamoots (Crumpton SL, Cyfac Gothica, MeiVici SE), but they also cost a lot more than a Vamoots. If you're looking for a ti frame that has the "snap" of a Z1 or Z3 and is relatively light (i.e., with the right wheels can be built up under 15lbs), a Spectrum or RSL or other frame with a similar design philosophy (butted, oversized tubes, more than likely BB30 or PF BB30 bottom bracket, etc.) would be better candidates than the Vamoots. These frames also cost more than a Vamoots, but generally still less than many high-end carbon bikes.

To jpw, yes, Moots drills frames for internal routing of Di2/EPS�in fact, when Di2 was first introduced, I believe Shimano used a Moots as a display bike at shows.

[veloduffer]

I should qualify my answer a bit. My preference is entirely personal, like wine and women! My point was that the same enthusiasm shared by many is not completely universal. If my Moots were my only bike, I'd be very happy. The differences are subtle and might not be perceived by others, and might be just notions in my head!

If you can, try before you buy.

[bironi]

That, and there's no paint option. Some don't care for the industrial look of bare titanium.

I've had a Vamoots for about 6 years. Still like the ride. I had mine sent to Spectrum Powder works when i placed my order. It only sports a head badge which I like. Ouzo Pro fork. Thompson post.

[pdonk]

I recently purchased a used custom vamoots sl. I've put about 500km on it since I got it and really like it.

My only complaint, and it may be because it is custom, is this is the first road bike I've owned with toe overlap, which makes tight turns and weaving in traffic harder.

I've never owned a high end road bike, but do own multiple high end mountain bikes. The details on such a simple looking bike are amazing.

[Ahneida Ride]

In 10+ years ...

Never heard a complaint about a Vamoots ...

[misterha]

I've had my Moots Vamoots CR for about 4 months and love it. What drawn me to Moots is that they know what they're doing with Ti and its going to last forever. Obviously all frame material will last forever if taken care properly even CF. People said that the shelf life if CF is only a couple years but I'm seeing some pretty old frame out there.

Another aspect that drawn me towards Moots is that this is practically the same bike that they made when it first came out, though with some revision to a compact geometry and the newly double butted on the RSL model. I can say 10 years from now they're still going to make the same great bike that I have now. My bike won't be "outdated" by next year when they make the SL5 EVO nano 62.3 thats stiffer, lighter, and more aero.

[Matthew]

Got a 2009 Compact and love it. Great all around bike. Mine is built up with Dura Ace 7800 and a Kestrel fork. The only nit pick I had was with the Alpha Q built Moots branded fork I got with the frame. Steerer tube just seemed to flex a bit too much for my liking. I also have a Ti Serotta Concours that has a Kestrel fork with an aluminum steerer tube that had virtually no flex. So I picked up a brand new fork for cheap on ebay and am thrilled with it. Improved the stiffness yet still has a smooth ride. Could not be happier with my Moots. And as mentioned by others they have improved the decals by using a more durable/thicker material. No issues with mine in 4 years.

[SteveV0983]

I bought a 2012 Vamoots last year as a 50th birthday gift from me to me and it's fantastic. I'm not one to change bikes often (for the 20 years prior to this I rode a 1992 Serotta Colorado tg) so I took a long time deciding on this one. It really is as good as everyone says. It's quick and responsive if you want to push it yet it can just float along perfectly for a lazy afternoon ride. Mine is built up with HED Belgium C2s and I use 25c Vredestein Fortezza TriComps. Those tires measure about 26.5 across on those rims and they fit fine. I have about 3000 miles on mine and I have never once felt it wasn't the right choice. I did get the straight seat post because I really wanted the ability to change fore-aft and angle separately. It functions great and it looks fantastic, but as others have said, it's a seat post. That being said, I'm glad I have it. The company was fantastic to work with and they are very environmentally conscious, which was important to me. Mine is a stock 58 with a 1cm taller head tube (no charge for that) and a pump peg and it did indeed take every bit of 9 weeks from order to door. But it was well worth it. I still smile when I look down and see the sun glisten off that finish. I feel fortunate that I was at a point where I could afford one and have zero regrets.
I like the fact that it has a classic look with the just slightly sloping top tube and I also like that, aside from mine, I've never seen another one. Granted my nearest dealer is 150 miles away, but Moots helped out with that also. Because the closest dealer is over 100 miles away, Moots spoke to my local shop and arranged for a demo to be shipped to them in my size which they let me keep for a week. After approximately the first 30 feet of the first ride, I knew I wanted one and they let my LBS be the middleman. So I got the bike I wanted from my favorite shop. That to me was going above and beyond what you expect from companies nowadays.

[bshell]

Could someone educate my on how this is possible?

I've felt flexy fork blades and I've felt underinflated tires before but I can't imagine a steer tube flexing. Are we not talking about a super strong carbon/steel/aluminum tube, heavily supported at both ends of the head tube(5-8" apart)?

When people speak of flexy steer tubes are they talking about at the crown of the fork or what? I can't see any way there is flex taking place inside the frame.

Super curious, thanks.

[gearguywb]

My wife and I are lucky enough to have a couple of Moots. I tend to try out different bikes for 6 months to a year and then move on to something else. In all of that time, my RSL has been with me 3 years or so now (one of the first made) and my MootoX has been with me 5 years.

You couldn't pry the wife's Vamoots away from her. I bought it for her several years ago as a demo from the factory and she is still loving it.

[martl]

Could someone educate my on how this is possible?

I've felt flexy fork blades and I've felt underinflated tires before but I can't imagine a steer tube flexing. Are we not talking about a super strong carbon/steel/aluminum tube, heavily supported at both ends of the head tube(5-8" apart)?

When people speak of flexy steer tubes are they talking about at the crown of the fork or what? I can't see any way there is flex taking place inside the frame.

The steerer tube *of a fork* can and will flex. It has contact to the frame itself only where the bearings are and is free in between. A buddy has a 1" CFK Mizuno Alpe d'Huez in his 64cm Klein Quantum where the effect is actually visible when one pulls the front brake and rocks the bike back and forth.
Obviously, this will impact the way the ride feels more than any gimmick designers pull off on their frame designs.

About the main subject: I love(d) my Moots Vamoots. Had it for a couple of years, it was a trusty companion on many miles. It is a very understated bike due to its optics, the Gentlemen's choice.

[Matthew]

I could see and feel a fair amount of flex when I would straddle the bike and pull/push on the ends of my handlebars with the carbon Moots fork. When I did the same thing on my Serotta I detected very little flex. The Kestrel fork with the aluminum steerer on the Serotta was noticeably stiffer while riding too. In fairness, I did have a bit more steerer tube exposed on my Moots but not enough to make that much difference. Both bikes feel the same now in the front end/at the handlebar.

[tuscanyswe]

Since its on the subject. Anyone ever saw a seattube extraction like this on a moots before ? Is it a really old custom bike that someone put some new decals on or similar?

The measurements listed are ofc wrong which seem to be a common thing on mootses on ebay? :)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-SHINY-Moots-Vamoots-56cm-Titanium-NR-SL-Serotta-Ottrott-Seven-/261292802037?pt=US_Bicycles_Frames&hash=item3cd643bff5

[texbike]

Since its on the subject. Anyone ever saw a seattube extraction like this on a moots before ? Is it a really old custom bike that someone put some new decals on or similar?

The measurements listed are ofc wrong which seem to a common thing on mootses on ebay? :)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-SHINY-Moots-Vamoots-56cm-Titanium-NR-SL-Serotta-Ottrott-Seven-/261292802037?pt=US_Bicycles_Frames&hash=item3cd643bff5

I haven't seen a seatpost collar on a Vamoots like that before, but the bike does appear to be older due to the downtube shifter bosses. It definitely has newer decals and the headbadge wasn't there originally either. My guess is that Moots refinished the bike at some point and added the mid 2000s era decals and headbadge.

As for the geo, mine is an early 2000s and it's measurements are different than those on the mid 2000s geo charts (although it's close). The ebay bike could be a custom or just a different stock geo that was offered at the time that it was built.

Texbike

[marle]

I would recommend a demo ride. I'm 6'3" and 215. In the past I demo rode a 62cm Vamoots and found it too 'soft' In Nov I got a rock stock 60 cm Vamoots RSL based on a long demo ride of a 58 cm RSL.


The RSL combines the nice feel of Ti while being light and stiff.

[texbike]

I got a Vamoots (custom geo same as my Parlee Z1x) a few years ago to see if there was anything special about it to make me want to ride it sometimes instead of carbon fiber. In general, the answer to that question is no. Metal is metal, as I like to say. Nice welds, well aligned, good look, but I never understand smoothness when talking metal vs. CF, and it does not have "resonance" as one poster back then noted which was the hook that sucked me in. Not snappy enough, nor light enough, nor smooth enough to compete with a good CF frame. I won't persuade people who ride metal and prefer it to CF, but just wanted to note this for CF riders who wonder when they hear people wax poetic.

If it's a winter's day when I'll be all bundled up and know I won't enjoy the ride that much but want to get out for exercise, I'll pick the Moots for some variety, but I never pick it if the weather is nice. That was the bike that persuaded me I would never buy a metal bike again. If an archetype of the best of metal doesn't do it for me, nothing will.

I think it really comes down to what you like in a bike. Happycampyer seems to like bikes that aren't as stiff, which would explain his love of the Vamoots.

I've had my Vamoots for 5 years now and didn't really like it at first. It felt soft and mushy compared to the MX Leader and C40 that were getting most of my miles at the time. After several rides I was ready to sell it but decided to keep it around a bit longer. It turns out that I wasn't any slower on the Vamoots than on the other two bikes and didn't feel as fatigued after long rides. For some reason, the negatives of the bike kinda vanished and it's become my primary ride. I love the simple, understated, industrial look and the bike delivers that low frequency hum/resonance that others have noted with Ti bikes. As mentioned before, it's a keeper.

Texbike

[gearguywb]

I could see and feel a fair amount of flex when I would straddle the bike and pull/push on the ends of my handlebars with the carbon Moots fork. When I did the same thing on my Serotta I detected very little flex. The Kestrel fork with the aluminum steerer on the Serotta was noticeably stiffer while riding too. In fairness, I did have a bit more steerer tube exposed on my Moots but not enough to make that much difference. Both bikes feel the same now in the front end/at the handlebar.

There are a lot of variables involved here. Handlebar type, mfg, size, clamp diameter, stem, etc all of the way down, and including wheel, skewer and tire.

[tuscanyswe]

Im pretty lightweight for my length and size but ive never felt the moots compact to be soft. Ive had other ti bikes that were very soft in comparison.

[Ken Robb]

I wonder if the perceived differences in fork flex could be movement at the bearing/steerer or bearing/head tube interfaces. If in fact the steerer bends I would guess it would be at the part between the top bearing and the bars.

[tuscanyswe]

I wonder if the perceived differences in fork flex could be movement at the bearing/steerer or bearing/head tube interfaces. If in fact the steerer bends I would guess it would be at the part between the top bearing and the bars.

Which seems unlikely unless one has ALOT of spacers. I would have thought ppl were talking of the steerer tube flexing in regard to the forklegs cause i cant c how one could actually c the steerer itself flex. Seems very unlikely from just pulling your bars while holding the brake imo.

[tuscanyswe]

I haven't seen a seatpost collar on a Vamoots like that before, but the bike does appear to be older due to the downtube shifter bosses. It definitely has newer decals and the headbadge wasn't there originally either. My guess is that Moots refinished the bike at some point and added the mid 2000s era decals and headbadge.

As for the geo, mine is an early 2000s and it's measurements are different than those on the mid 2000s geo charts (although it's close). The ebay bike could be a custom or just a different stock geo that was offered at the time that it was built.

Texbike


No i made the same observations + the derailleur hanger is non replaceable.

I wonder how its possible that a frame that has 6cm+ seattube above the toptube can have a c-t measurement of 56 yet a c-c measurement 54!?? Seller prolly just looked at an old geo chart and that was that.

[Mark McM]

Could someone educate my on how this is possible?

I've felt flexy fork blades and I've felt underinflated tires before but I can't imagine a steer tube flexing. Are we not talking about a super strong carbon/steel/aluminum tube, heavily supported at both ends of the head tube(5-8" apart)?

Of course the steerer can flex. The fork/steerer is a bending beam, with the bearing seats acting as fulcrums. The bearings only support radial and axial loads, not bending loads, and there is just as much bending moment in the steerer as there is in the rest of the fork. It has been estimated that with many forks most of the for/aft movement at the fork tips is due to steerer flex, because a small change in angle of the steerer tube can result in a large deflection at the fork tips.

[kevinvc]

Do folks have any comparisons between the Vamoots and the PsychloX? I bought a raffle ticket where the prize is either one of these and I need to decide which to get. :banana:

Actually, I would be curious as to how their cross bike rides as a roadie. It seems like the Ti would mitigate some of the factors, e.g. trail, that some people complain about.

[tuscanyswe]

Http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3774/9448077670_58b0ef741f_b.jpg

Dont need much of an excuse to post a pic of my precious duo..

Here i have both in road mode. They are pretty much identical builds as well.
The cross with road tires have very fast almost twitchy steering. Id say its a darn nice ride but do prefer the more direct and stable ride i get with roadbike. The cross is ofc more versatile and do everything pretty well but if i could only keep one it would be the roadbike. Mainly cause its the riding i enjoy and do the most.

[jpw]

Http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3774/9448077670_58b0ef741f_b.jpg

Dont need much of an excuse to post a pic of my precious duo..

Here i have both in road mode. They are pretty much identical builds as well.
The cross with road tires have very fast almost twitchy steering. Id say its a darn nice ride but do prefer the more direct and stable ride i get with roadbike. The cross is ofc more versatile and do everything pretty well but if i could only keep one it would be the roadbike. Mainly cause its the riding i enjoy and do the most.

how do those lightweights ride?

[tuscanyswe]

Well i havent ridden them as much as i should have. I pamper them abit, perhaps more than needed so i often choose other wheels. But i did ride some 750km or something like that since i got them this spring from a fellow moots fan on here..

Im awfull at reviewing wheels since i often lack words for what i feel. Im kinda picky and i know what i like but putting that down in print is a different matter.

They are light, amazingly so. That was my first impression when i took them out of the box and when i first rode them, they take off nicely which suits me good since i mostly ride slowish :) They are as smooth as the campy hyperons i sold to get them but also feel stiff / dead like a higher profile wheel. Im 75kgs and im no powerhouse by any means. Nicest wheels I've ridden. Ive had some enves that felt stiffer / even more dead :) but with a ride that was very harsh in comparison.

[John H.]

Question for you guys who think a Vamoots is not stiff.
How much do you weigh and what size frame do you ride?

[gearguywb]

I ride my RSL cross as a roadie in the winter. 27mm tubies and life is good :)

[texbike]

Question for you guys who think a Vamoots is not stiff.
How much do you weigh and what size frame do you ride?

160 lbs and I ride a 56.

Texbike

[John H.]

That is not heavy or a large frame size.
Your posts about the Vamoots are positive- must be stiff enough?

160 lbs and I ride a 56.

Texbike

[tiretrax]

Http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3774/9448077670_58b0ef741f_b.jpg

Dont need much of an excuse to post a pic of my precious duo..

Here i have both in road mode. They are pretty much identical builds as well.
The cross with road tires have very fast almost twitchy steering. Id say its a darn nice ride but do prefer the more direct and stable ride i get with roadbike. The cross is ofc more versatile and do everything pretty well but if i could only keep one it would be the roadbike. Mainly cause its the riding i enjoy and do the most.

I spoke at length with one of their reps recently because I want to get to one all around bike. I was told the Psychlo and Vamoots are almost the same bike except for tire clearance and cable routing and that they ride nearly the same. Is that your experience?

In response to the original post - I have recommended to several people that they get a Moots when they bought additional bikes. Each told me they sold their other bikes and kept the Moots as their only road bike.

It is the one bike I have had lust for but not yet owned. I was in Steamboat and stumbled upon Kent Ericksen's shop. I can't decide if I want him to build me one or to get a Moots.

[texbike]

That is not heavy or a large frame size.
Your posts about the Vamoots are positive- must be stiff enough?

It's definitely stiff/good enough for me. It was being compared to a Merckx MX Leader when I first purchased it which probably wasn't a fair comparison. As mentioned, I didn't like the Moots at first but grew to love it. So much so that I prefer the Moots to the MXL at this point and will probably be posting the Merckx up for sale before too long.

Texbike

[tuscanyswe]

Yes a very similar ride to them tho my roadbike is a compact and not a vamoots. The current vamoots have slightly more slack angles than this compact and may be even more similar in comparison to the psychlo-x in theory.

But tires make alot of difference. The cross with skinny 23s in the pic does not feel as stable as the compact, steers abit twitchy (which i kinda like to a degree) and it feels better with a larger tire but larger tires has a drawback of feeling sluggish to me if you are comparing say 30mm vs 23s.

I cant imagine you would be disappointed with either a Kent or a Moots.

Id say the psychlo-x is a great do it all bike but many cross bikes are i guess. A poprad i had once felt really great with road tires.

[CunegoFan]

160 lbs and I ride a 56.

Texbike

I (usually) weigh a little less. Same size frame. Level top tube. I like to climb out of the saddle and I cannot detect any flex.

[dogdriver]

Late to the thread:

I give my Vamoots the same high compliment I give other bikes, skis, computers, shoes, guitars, etc, that work well for me: I don't have to think about it. It just does what I want it to, the way I want to do it. I don't have to adapt my technique to the equipment, it just seamlessly does what its supposed to. Best bike I've ever had. I'll always own one.

[Nickgt2]

New forum member here-

I've owned my Moots for a decade. Not a carbon monocoque fan. Been riding mostly steel since the mid 80's.

I enjoy the Moots. Mine is a Vamoots 52cm, "stock" with the old geometry, Look HSC3 fork, Campy a Record 10, and a wheelset swap from Neutrons to Reynolds Assaults.

Are there better? Probably. Will it be easy to find and cheaper? Probably not. For comparison's sake I buy a new "keeper" road bike every decade- in the 80's it was my Ouellette (poor college kid bought it used, fit me perfect), 90's it was my Colnago Master Light, 2000's the Moots, and I just put in a deposit a month ago on a Crumpton. The Colnago was built rough and finished poorly, probably the worst of any bike I've owned, but it rides super smooth- that is at Joe Bell for a much needed rehab. Along the way I've bought/built several others, my first bike was a Centurion Dave Scott, a Cannondale 3.0 (a whale of a failure in my opinion), a Litespeed, a Guerciotti SLX, a Guerciotti bonded aluminum ala Vitus, a Gios Compact, and others I've forgotten.

Here's my Moots.

[oldpotatoe]

New forum member here-

I've owned my Moots for a decade. Not a carbon monocoque fan. Been riding mostly steel since the mid 80's.

I enjoy the Moots. Mine is a Vamoots 52cm, "stock" with the old geometry, Look HSC3 fork, Campy a Record 10, and a wheelset swap from Neutrons to Reynolds Assaults.

Are there better? Probably. Will it be easy to find and cheaper? Probably not. For comparison's sake I buy a new "keeper" road bike every decade- in the 80's it was my Ouellette (poor college kid bought it used, fit me perfect), 90's it was my Colnago Master Light, 2000's the Moots, and I just put in a deposit a month ago on a Crumpton. The Colnago was built rough and finished poorly, probably the worst of any bike I've owned, but it rides super smooth- that is at Joe Bell for a much needed rehab. Along the way I've bought/built several others, my first bike was a Centurion Dave Scott, a Cannondale 3.0 (a whale of a failure in my opinion), a Litespeed, a Guerciotti SLX, a Guerciotti bonded aluminum ala Vitus, a Gios Compact, and others I've forgotten.

Here's my Moots.

Yowser..Moots worn out?

[Nickgt2]

Yowser..Moots worn out?

Heck no.

I still have the Ouellette and Colnago too.

Here's a recent pic of the Ouellette with the Joe Bell paint job he did about 15 years ago. It's got 9 speed Record, the Colnago had 8 speed Record but I'm thinking to updating it to 11 when it comes back.

[oldpotatoe]

Heck no.

I still have the Ouellette and Colnago too.

Here's a recent pic of the Ouellette with the Joe Bell paint job he did about 15 years ago. It's got 9 speed Record, the Colnago had 8 speed Record but I'm thinking to updating it to 11 when it comes back.

Pretty!!

[Dave Ferris]

.

[NYCfixie]

/thread revival


There appear to be many Moots threads lately so I thought I would revive this one and ask an age old question: Is the new version better - or worse - than the old one.

For years I wanted a Vamoots and could not really afford one. Then I found out Hapmsten was using Moots to build his Strada Biancha and Moots was building a Vamoots LT (both mid-reach brake) but I still could not afford one. I sort of forgot about the desire for many years.

Now it appears that Moots has dumped the original Vamoots with its beautiful seatpost cluster, 1-1/8 head tube, mostly level top tube, and classic lines. In its place is the updated version with a 44mm head tube (tapered 1-1/4 fork), sloping top tube, and the need for a seatpost collar (in a fatter tube with insert I assume).

So I ask, did Moots make a mistake killing off the original and very classic Vamoots when they already have a more modern version RSL? Is the new Vamoots DR enough to make some people happy that they could have kept the original Vamoots as-is or even renamed it "Vamoots Classic"?

Thoughts?

[54ny77]

I think the new Vamoots is beaten with the fugly stick. Big seat tube with skinny seat post looks so outta whack. And that beer can headtube....blech.

To me, the former aesthetic is kaput. You're right, the seat cluster/clamp design was beautiful.

Am sure the new rigs ride wonderfully, but....:(

/thread revival

There appear to be many Moots threads lately so I thought I would revive this one and ask an age old question: Is the new version better - or worse - than the old one.

For years I wanted a Vamoots and could not really afford one. Then I found out Hapmsten was using Moots to build his Strada Biancha and Moots was building a Vamoots LT (both mid-reach brake) but I still could not afford one. I sort of forgot about the desire for many years.

Now it appears that Moots has dumped the original Vamoots with its beautiful seatpost cluster, 1-1/8 head tube, mostly level top tube, and classic lines. In its place is the updated version with a 44mm head tube (tapered 1-1/4 fork), sloping top tube, and the need for a seatpost collar (in a fatter tube with insert I assume).


So I ask, did Moots make a mistake killing off the original and very classic Vamoots when they already have a more modern version RSL? Is the new Vamoots DR enough to make some people happy that they could have kept the original Vamoots as-is or even renamed it "Vamoots Classic"?

Thoughts?

[855]

i think it´s not easy for a company like Moots, to keep tradition and go with the time. too traditional, they losing people to carbon. too modern, they lose the classic people. like dancing on the edge.

they are trying to keep the business running. how often they are changed the design of their full suspension MTB?

in the past they had a good instinct i think, except the sloping of road bikes, that is way too much!

[happycampyer]

^ I think this has a lot to do with it. The RSL was introduced in 2010, so now 8 or so years ago. Moots wasn’t the first to make the move to oversized tubes, PF BB30 etc. in ti, but it made that style of bike more “mainstream” (within this little corner of the bike-buying market). The need to compete with carbon is a big factor, and the need to keep up with current trends (whether they make sense or not) is important to not being seen as behind the times. So witness the move to giant headtubes and tapered forks. Didn’t Moots discontinue their straight 1-1/8” fork? I think it’s a farce that suddenly every bike needs a tapered fork steerer to ride properly, or “better.” And of course, the inexorable move towards disc brakes...

I think that Moots would probably sell a decent amount of “classic” Vamoots if they kept a model in the line, but it would probably drive up production costs to do so.

To NYCfixie’s question whether they are “better,” I would say that they are different, and cater to current tastes and perceptions (skinny tubes are bad/flexy).

I would take an older Vamoots over a current one any day (although sadly, the newer Vamoots geometry suits me better than the older, pre-2010 one). If I wanted a ti road bike with a tapered steerer, I would get a Mosaic or Firefly with a tapered headtube (which I have on my Firefly all-road bike).

[54ny77]

i still lament the passing of both your vamoots and compac sl's.

definite non-buyer's remorse!

(although i don't think they'd have fit, maybe bigger than 55?)

at least the ottrott works like a charm.....and i'm waiting for the temps to get to 40-something to take it out today!

^ I think this has a lot to do with it. The RSL was introduced in 2010, so now 8 or so years ago. Moots wasn’t the first to make the move to oversized tubes, PF BB30 etc. in ti, but it made that style of bike more “mainstream” (within this little corner of the bike-buying market). The need to compete with carbon is a big factor, and the need to keep up with current trends (whether they make sense or not) is important to not being seen as behind the times. So witness the move to giant headtubes and tapered forks. Didn’t Moots discontinue their straight 1-1/8” fork? I think it’s a farce that suddenly every bike needs a tapered fork steerer to ride properly, or “better.” And of course, the inexorable move towards disc brakes...

I think that Moots would probably sell a decent amount of “classic” Vamoots if they kept a model in the line, but it would probably drive up production costs to do so.

To NYCfixie’s question whether they are “better,” I would say that they are different, and cater to current tastes and perceptions (skinny tubes are bad/flexy).

I would take an older Vamoots over a current one any day (although sadly, the newer Vamoots geometry suits me better than the older, pre-2010 one). If I wanted a ti road bike with a tapered steerer, I would get a Mosaic or Firefly with a tapered headtube (which I have on my Firefly all-road bike).

[dbnm]

I own a 2014 (or is it 2015) Moots Vamoots RSL. It is my first Ti bike and I love it.

Moots lives off of a history and reputation of making amazing bikes. But, competition is coming in hard and strong. Firefly, Alchemy, Mosaic, and Stinner, etc are all doing amazing things with designs and custom features. Moots seems to be playing catch up. Just look how long it took them to offer custom colored, anodized logos.

I do think they would benefit from a "classic" bike. Simple, clean lines and a price slightly less than their other bikes.

[velomateo]

I can’t respond to the current models, because my VaMoots is my first and only. According to Moots, my frame was manufactured around ‘96, level top tube and a 1” steer tube. I honestly consider it the best bike I have ever owned, and like most folks here, I’ve had more than a few to gage it against. Literally every ride, as recently as a couple days ago, I end with the thought that this bike is just sooo good. If the bike industry had stopped innovating right then, at this frame, I would be just fine with it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[happycampyer]

<snip>

I do think they would benefit from a "classic" bike. Simple, clean lines and a price slightly less than their other bikes.Why would it cost less? Arguably, the current Vamoots and CR with the straight seat tube and insert are cheaper to produce than the older version with the integrated seatpost binder and the fusion welded seat tube.

I would think the cost of stocking runs of all the different tube sizes and set-up costs would just end up driving Moots' overall costs up, and therefore prices.

If Moots were to offer a "classic" version, it might make more sense to do a limited edition/anniversary run, to try to get all the demand at once.

[NYCfixie]

I would get one with the 1cm headtube extension to future proof it so I can ride it into my very old age.

Why would it cost less? Arguably, the current Vamoots and CR with the straight seat tube and insert are cheaper to produce than the older version with the integrated seatpost binder and the fusion welded seat tube.

I would think the cost of stocking runs of all the different tube sizes and set-up costs would just end up driving Moots' overall costs up, and therefore prices.

If Moots were to offer a "classic" version, it might make more sense to do a limited edition/anniversary run, to try to get all the demand at once.

[Dave Ferris]

Don't like the looks of the new Vamoots.

[cycle-spinner]

I have an RSL and and SL both are amazing. Simple and to the point. Can’t go wrong.

[martl]

I rode an older Vamoots (98 i think) a couple of years and really tried to love it. Great looks etc. I failed. Not a bad bike at all, but not my cup of tea. I like a crisp response from the BB and i like agile steering. may have ridden nervous, agile Italians for too long.

[Mikej]

Don't like the looks of the new Vamoots.

http://moots.com/bike/vamoots/

I do....

[mcteague]

There are lots of custom builders in the US who will make your Ti bike to look pretty much however you want. Flat TT, standard HT, threaded BB, etc. Does it HAVE to be a Moots?

Tim

[bob heinatz]

Moots knows what they are doing. My wife rides one and I love looking at it all the time.

[fa63]

http://moots.com/bike/vamoots/

I do....

They look nice, though I hate that they did away with the built-in seatpost collar. If I were in the market today, I think I would look for a Moots with one of those instead; not like the rest have changed that much over the years.

[Mikej]

They look nice, though I hate that they did away with the built-in seatpost collar. If I were in the market today, I think I would look for a Moots with one of those instead; not like the rest have changed that much over the years.

I know, the welded seat collar was the last of cool old time details! But, I bet that two ti machined parts and welding cost....125$ Not to mention those buggers bound up!

[gngroup]

My first and only Vamoots - a 1998 with factory paint and a custom Hampsten built MAX fork. It’s a fantastic ride and I’m very fortunate to have found it last year. Although I prefer the aesthetic of these older versions, I imagine the new versions are also excellent rides. Moots are great bikes!

http://davidnelsonsf.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Snapseed-e1509226086522.jpg

[ergott]

My first and only Vamoots - a 1998 with factory paint and a custom Hampsten built MAX fork. It’s a fantastic ride and I’m very fortunate to have found it last year. Although I prefer the aesthetic of these older versions, I imagine the new versions are also excellent rides. Moots are great bikes!

http://davidnelsonsf.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Snapseed-e1509226086522.jpgThat bikes looks awesome. Except.
The bands that transition between paint at metal look arbitrary. Unless it's a trick of the eye they look not quite vertical or horizontal, but close. I like when those lines have some sort of connection to another angle on the bike or are horizontal/vertical.

That's the OCD talking, sorry. Again, really nice bike there!


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[happycampyer]

That bikes looks awesome. Except.
The bands that transition between paint at metal look arbitrary. Unless it's a trick of the eye they look not quite vertical or horizontal, but close. I like when those lines have some sort of connection to another angle on the bike or are horizontal/vertical.

That's the OCD talking, sorry. Again, really nice bike there!


Sent from my SM-G950U using TapatalkIt's an unusual paint job, for sure, and a departure from the more typical diagonal line that slopes downward from rear to front. I think what the shape is supposed to be is a circle traced in the raw ti, which circle is smaller than the wheel. If you look closely at the rear dropouts, you can see small patches of white paint, with tiny arcs on the seat- and chainstays. Maybe it makes more sense in person.

[pdonk]

I know I replied to this post a few years ago, after not much time on my Vamoots SL. Now that I have close to 10,000km on it, I still love it, my only wish was that it was longer and lower.

I replaced the reynolds fork with a moots rsl fork and it handles better now(no speed wobble like it used to get over 60km/hr)

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=158818

It needs new pics to show changes.

[redir]

I don't have a Vamoots but I do have a Compact. If I really had to complain about something it would be the Breezer(sp?) drop outs. They can be finicky with some skewers. You get used to it but I would prefer something more simple. I think the Vamoots has the same drop outs, or at least they did when this thread was started.

[54ny77]

^^ Agree! Am not a fan of Breezer-style dropouts on a road bike at all. Finicky, yes. Of course you get used to 'em, but if you have anodized skewers and rush things, and clamp down just a teeny tiny bit at the wrong angle.....BOOM there goes the frame paint and a nice chunk off the anodization.

Dunno what the point of them is for the rider. From what I can recall, they're better for the builder because it gives more surface area to weld to, therefore stronger joint, as well as easier to work with. Truth to that, or a convenient tale?

[pdmtong]

Dunno what the point of them is for the rider. From what I can recall, they're better for the builder because it gives more surface area to weld to, therefore stronger joint, as well as easier to work with. Truth to that, or a convenient tale?
I thought the rider benefit is a stiffer SS/CS connection, so the power transfer to the wheel is improved. Of course if this was universally and incrementally significant, the breezer would be the majority and not the minority design.

[cycle-spinner]

I’m on the other side. I love the dropouts. Makes for the best platform to weld the seat and chain stays. My SL have the welded seat binder. Love the look as well.

[Craiger810]

I know I replied to this post a few years ago, after not much time on my Vamoots SL. Now that I have close to 10,000km on it, I still love it, my only wish was that it was longer and lower.

I replaced the reynolds fork with a moots rsl fork and it handles better now(no speed wobble like it used to get over 60km/hr)

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=158818

It needs new pics to show changes.

Did the Moots RSL fork correct the toe overlap issue you noted years ago?

[pdonk]

Did the Moots RSL fork correct the toe overlap issue you noted years ago?


Unfortunately no. Same rake so same issue. Relatively large feet (46) and a slight rear weighted cleat placement don't play well with the front center.

[NYCfixie]

What size frame?

Almost any frame under 54cm will have toe overlap unless "touring style" with a long wheelbase and long front center.

Did the Moots RSL fork correct the toe overlap issue you noted years ago?

Unfortunately no. Same rake so same issue. Relatively large feet (46) and a slight rear weighted cleat placement don't play well with the front center.

[cycle-spinner]

I ride a 50cm Frame in both my Moots and there is toe overlap but once you know it’s there, it’s never been a problem. The interesting thing, is that Moots specked 43 rakes forks on both frames. Now their spec sheet goes with a 50 and HT angle has not changed that much.

[pdmtong]

I ride a 50cm Frame in both my Moots and there is toe overlap but once you know it’s there, it’s never been a problem. The interesting thing, is that Moots specked 43 rakes forks on both frames. Now their spec sheet goes with a 50 and HT angle has not changed that much.

I think this is only because once they started sourcing their own forks they began to express more specific fork rakes. It's not like the previous were terrible rather once you have a choice you will make a choice

[pdonk]

What size frame?

Almost any frame under 54cm will have toe overlap unless "touring style" with a long wheelbase and long front center.

It's a big one. 61.5. So it's weird.

[gngroup]

I rode my Colnago C59 this morning after being on the Vamoots for the last couple months and I have to say that hands down the Colnago is my favorite. C59 handles better, climbs better, descends better, and with 25mm Veloflex tubulars (vs 28mm Vittoria on HED +), it is almost as comfortable. Still like the Vamoots but it’s a different beast.

[NYCfixie]

I had a nice exchange yesterday with someone at Moots and I came away with the following information:

- Seat cluster with binder bolt went away a few years ago

- 2017 model went from 31.8 OD to 34.9 OD seat tube with 27.2 welded insert
(for better or worse, most Ti builders/companies are using 34.9 these days even though it is not always necessary for smaller frames)

- 2018 model went to 44mm headtube and 1-1/4 fork
(for better or worse, many Ti builders/companies are using 44mm or tapered these days even though it is not always necessary for smaller frames)

We talked about custom (and I even know a dealer who would split the fee with me to make it more affordable) but all that would change is a 1-1/8 headtube. Meaning no seatcluster with binder bolt or 31.8 seattube. As I shared in my last email to Moots, "It appears I am asking for a frame that Moots no longer makes and the market no longer wants".

It's too bad because I think the VaMoots had a very special ride characteristic that you cannot create when using a larger seattube and bigger headtube on smaller frames. There are still other choices out there (i.e. Seven, IF, or even a Lynskey R150) but it will never be a VaMoots.

/RIP

[gngroup]

It's an unusual paint job, for sure, and a departure from the more typical diagonal line that slopes downward from rear to front. I think what the shape is supposed to be is a circle traced in the raw ti, which circle is smaller than the wheel. If you look closely at the rear dropouts, you can see small patches of white paint, with tiny arcs on the seat- and chainstays. Maybe it makes more sense in person.

That’s the way it appears to me as well. Definitely unique and somewhat arbitrary. Moots told me the raw Ti sections were left unpainted because those areas are more likely to suffer paint chips from road debris. I don’t necessarily agree with that logic but that’s irrelevant. In the end, a factory paint job on a vintage Vamoots that rides wonderfully.

[sterlingus]

I had a nice exchange yesterday with someone at Moots and I came away with the following information:

- Seat cluster with binder bolt went away a few years ago

- 2017 model went from 31.8 OD to 34.9 OD seat tube with 27.2 welded insert
(for better or worse, most Ti builders/companies are using 34.9 these days even though it is not always necessary for smaller frames)

- 2018 model went to 44mm headtube and 1-1/4 fork
(for better or worse, many Ti builders/companies are using 44mm or tapered these days even though it is not always necessary for smaller frames)

We talked about custom (and I even know a dealer who would split the fee with me to make it more affordable) but all that would change is a 1-1/8 headtube. Meaning no seatcluster with binder bolt or 31.8 seattube. As I shared in my last email to Moots, "It appears I am asking for a frame that Moots no longer makes and the market no longer wants".

It's too bad because I think the VaMoots had a very special ride characteristic that you cannot create when using a larger seattube and bigger headtube on smaller frames. There are still other choices out there (i.e. Seven, IF, or even a Lynskey R150) but it will never be a VaMoots.

/RIP

exactly - have one of each, (Vamoots 50's) and the newer bigger-tube bike is not quite as spry.

[oldpotatoe]

exactly - have one of each, (Vamoots 50's) and the newer bigger-tube bike is not quite as spry.

Zombie thread, started 2013, but welcome!! I love my Moots also!! Moots today as good as in 2013(or 2003, or 1993......)

[soulspinner]

I noticed you can no longer get the Vamoots without discs. The website has been recently changed and the rim model Vamoots gone.

[wgp]

Nice to re-read this thread after all these years! I still own my Vamoots, and I bought Marle’s RSL (back in 2014 or ‘15) and rode that a lot until selling it this past summer. Finally found the long-searched for Parlee Z1 in my desired geometry, which prompted the RSL sale. I loved the ride of the RSL but could never get past the extremely sloping TT - I’m a traditionalist I guess? But I will never sell my Vamoots!

[wgp]

I noticed you can no longer get the Vamoots without discs. The website has been recently changed and the rim model Vamoots gone.

Ughh the beginning of the end! Just kidding ;-)

See my prior post about being a traditionalist ...

[oldpotatoe]

I noticed you can no longer get the Vamoots without discs. The website has been recently changed and the rim model Vamoots gone.

You can but it'll be a 'custom' with the appropriate $ added.

[JeffWarner]

I noticed you can no longer get the Vamoots without discs. The website has been recently changed and the rim model Vamoots gone.


Rim brakes are still offered on the Vamoots RSL.

Over the years, I think the Vamoots has transformed from a “race” bike to an endurance/comfort bike with less aggressive geometry. Disc brakes and it’s wider tires make sense for the type.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[soulspinner]

Ughh the beginning of the end! Just kidding ;-)

See my prior post about being a traditionalist ...

Im with ya. Im not taking my Vamoots to be on gravel. Ill have a dedicated bad weather bike to accept much different wheels and tires and don't want discs on this one.….