Going to buy a new Frame and Fork , Dirt made me do it !

[Smiley]

Ok , so I am 100 % certain it will be a new CDA with traditional steel stays and S&S couplers. I will be confirguring this bike as a Rapid Tour set up. My question to my brethern forumites and Dirt, Is do I build it with calipers or Canti's. My current thoughts if I should go with the wider clearance of Canti's is to buy the Easton Carbon fork with the new canti bosses on it. I need a race bike like I need a hole in my head and I really want ala Dirt an all around good bike with the added twist that I can travel with it more easily with the rig and do lightly supported touring with her. Oh yes since this bike will be STEEL I really like going WIDE with the tires.

[shaq-d]

you ever try adjusting cantis? if you're fine with that and good at it, go for it.. cantis were always a pain in the ... to me.. so i vote for calipers!

sd

[Sandy]

You ain't no 100% sure. 50% maybe. Probably more like 20%.


:)ing Sandy

[dirtdigger88]

you ever try adjusting cantis? if you're fine with that and good at it, go for it.. cantis were always a pain in the ... to me.. so i vote for calipers!

sd

have you ever tried to adjust Paul cantis- they are as far from a PITA as you can get- I have no regrets in my choice- They have stopping power on par with all but the best of brakes (dura ace 10) and it isnt that they lack power- they lack the modulation of the DA stoppers-

What I mean is that with the DA brakes- I could hit a corner way to fast- grab the brake way too hard - way too late- and all would work out just fine- With the Paul brakes- I need to use my head a bit more- not that they wont stop me- but rather that they will stop me so fast that I will skid a tire if I am not careful-

Those that know- KNOW- that a set of cantis adjusted correctly- will feel mushy in the showroom when you grab the lever- cantis just dont have that crisp feel in the levers that modern short reach brakes have- its not better or worse- its just different-

Smiley- your bike idea sound great- I love it and so will you- If you are going to build a bike like this - to me- it just seem natural to use canti over long pulls-

Jason

[Len J]

Ok , so I am 100 % certain it will be a new CDA with traditional steel stays and S&S couplers. I will be confirguring this bike as a Rapid Tour set up. My question to my brethern forumites and Dirt, Is do I build it with calipers or Canti's. My current thoughts if I should go with the wider clearance of Canti's is to buy the Easton Carbon fork with the new canti bosses on it. I need a race bike like I need a hole in my head and I really want ala Dirt an all around good bike with the added twist that I can travel with it more easily with the rig and do lightly supported touring with her. Oh yes since this bike will be STEEL I really like going WIDE with the tires.

paul canti's coming for the incoming Kirk. I thought about Paul centerpulls, but decided on Canti's instead.

I know you are a great believer in carbon forks for comfort, but IMO, a well made steel fork:
- improves the ride over a good carbon fork,
- Looks a hell of a lot better
- Will allow you the option of the centerpulls (if you want them)
- Will make it easier to get fender mounts on the fork.

I'd get Dave Kirk to make you a steel fork, get it painted to match and you'd be good to go.

Just my .02....proly worth what you paid for it.

Len

[Kevan]

canti's.

I'm with Len, go with a steel fork.

[dirtdigger88]

yo smiley-

Im going to second (or third) the idea on the steel fork- I have said it before and I will say it again- I am so impressed with the ride of the fork on the kirk- Dave does not get enough press about his forks-

it has been so long since I have ridden a steel fork- and honestly I dont know if I ever had ridden a "GOOD" steel for until now-

If you are going to do this project- do it full tilt- get a steel fork painted to match the frame-

Jason

[Fixed]

I 2nd the steel fork idea peace of mind i.m.h.o. cheers :beer:

[flydhest]

Smile-o-matic,

What's the diff between what you're suggesting CDA with S&S and the Uniscasi?
http://www.serotta.com/pages/uniscasi.html

[FierteTi52]

The Uniscasi is 900.00 more than the CDA. Seems like quite an upcharge for couplings and the non swaged down tube. Most builders charge $400-500 extra for a coupled frame. Ad a steel fork and Smiley's bike is getting quite expensive.
Jeff

[b3bicycles]

I'm going to fifth or sixth at this point on the steel fork(IF makes a really nice one) and canti brakes.

[sg8357]

Steel fork, then you can have a nifty French style front rack.

Pauls Centerpulls & Cantilevers are easy to set up and squeal
free. For maximum style points brazed on MAFAC centerpulls.
If you are thinking about using fat 27+ tires a lot, check out
Vintage Bike Quarterly for info on designing bikes to handle
well with fat tires.

My favorite Paul is the Touring, adjust the straddle cable to
set brake feel vs. power. See Sheldon Brown on how to adjust
Canti brakes.

Scott G.

[dirtdigger88]

I like the Neo Retros- though I have the touring out back and the retro up front-

I like the feel of the retro better- but they require the straddle wire to be waaaay up there- I think the instructions say 11cm above the brake posts- or something like that- so they wouldnt really work well out back- at least not for me

Jason

[Ginger]

I dunno, my Paul touring canti in the rear doesn't have that much cable and it stops the bike better than fine. Neo retro in front, touring in rear. Works great for me (and I think my bike has less space back there than yours does dirt!)

I concur on the Paul brake adjustment (if I can do it, anyone can), and the point about modulation...The neo retro does STOP when you really grab it...you're a little more responsible for your outcome.

[coylifut]

the touring canti doesn't need much straddle wire at all.
Paul's cantis are so easy to adjust the the extra $ are almost worth it.
a nicely contructed steel fork will cost less, can be painted to match the bike and have attachment options that the Alpha doesn't. oh, and it will ride better as well.

I feel a ground swell around here.

[dirtdigger88]

I dunno, my Paul touring canti in the rear doesn't have that much cable and it stops the bike better than fine. Neo retro in front, touring in rear. Works great for me (and I think my bike has less space back there than yours does dirt!)

.

nope Ginger gal-

my bike does not have enough space out back to run the neo retros either- that was the point I was trying to make (thought I guess I didnt)

LOOK HERE (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=13450&page=1) at the pix of my bike- you can see how high up the straddle wire is up front compared to out back-

I like the feel (in the lever) of the neo retros better than the touring (though they both seem to stop me fine) but you have to have the straddle wire up so high to get that feel that it is not practicle to run them out back-


Yes the Paul(s) WILL stop you when you grab the brakes- and yes Ginger I can easily do nose wheelies ala MTB with the power of my front stoppers-

Bottom line-

Smiley- Get the Paul canti- you will be SOOOOOO happy-

Jason

[dirtdigger88]

I feel a ground swell around here.

Coy- are you talking about support for the Paul brakes or are you talking about people getting away from racer boy bikes and getting something more in line with the type of riding they do-

just wondering-

Jason

[FierteTi52]

I like the feel (in the lever) of the neo retros better than the touring (though they both seem to stop me fine) but you have to have the straddle wire up so high to get that feel that it is not practicle to run them out back-



Jason,
Do you think the difference in feel has anything to do with the longer cable run to reach the rear canti? Or is it because of the different brake style and straddle cable length? My cross bike has Avid Shortys F+R and the front is great, but the rear is much weaker.
Jeff

[zap]

Ok , so I am 100 % certain it will be a new CDA with traditional steel stays and S&S couplers. I will be confirguring this bike as a Rapid Tour set up. My question to my brethern forumites and Dirt, Is do I build it with calipers or Canti's. My current thoughts if I should go with the wider clearance of Canti's is to buy the Easton Carbon fork with the new canti bosses on it. I need a race bike like I need a hole in my head and I really want ala Dirt an all around good bike with the added twist that I can travel with it more easily with the rig and do lightly supported touring with her. Oh yes since this bike will be STEEL I really like going WIDE with the tires.

Smiley my man.

Steel fork with canti's.

We have Avid Tri-Align canti's on our tandem and are very easy to set up properly. As you know, we have no problems stopping. Even coming down the Blue Ridge Parkway is not much of a problem. You know, that descent down Wintergreen.

They show up on ebay every once in a while.

I understand Paul makes pretty good stuff as well.

Have fun with your build.

[dirtdigger88]

Jason,
Do you think the difference in feel has anything to do with the longer cable run to reach the rear canti? Or is it because of the different brake style and straddle cable length? My cross bike has Avid Shortys F+R and the front is great, but the rear is much weaker.
Jeff

I am sure the cable length has alot to do with it- but I also think the two styles of brakes have a different feel-

Touring (http://www.paulcomp.com/frmbrakes.html)

Neo Retro (http://www.paulcomp.com/frmbrakes.html)

the Paul web site states that the touring brakes are less powerful- but not by much

Jason

[Ken Robb]

another consideration: Do your seat stays flex out more than your fork legs under braking?

[ericspin]

I agree with the steel fork and cantis. I cannot speak to the Kirk fork because I do not have mine YET. Are you listening JB? I do have the steel fork on my IF planetX and love it. I also run the Avid Shorty brakes on the IF and really enjoy the ease of going from 27 roly poly to 35 cross tires. I do not know why I would ever want another CF fork.

[72gmc]

Steel fork. Cantis. It's what I run on my current all-rounder, which is nowhere near as sweet as a CDA. But it's a sweet setup all the same. Looks like you're building the bike I want to build--I hope you go through with it so I can see pics and read reports.

[Serotta PETE]

CDA Steel and Steel Fork with CANTIs. IF you do not like it, you can leave it at my house in NC>>>

PETE :)

[Loro_tomas]

I used to ride a Ibis steel Mojo. Seems like ages ago around 96', before V-brakes. The best thing I did for this bike was a set of red paul stoplights MC's and RASTA (GOLD, GREEN & RED) love levers to go with them. These brakes where awesome. I have heard that the new ones are even better. take a look. this is OLD SCHOOL MTB.

[Smiley]

Here's the fork I am think of using :
http://www.eastonbike.com/COMPONENTS/fork.ec90-X-%2706.html

and the CDA with couplers is called .....whatever Flydhest says , same bike except the tubing needs to accomodate the S&S couplers hence the DT and TT are not Colorado Concept but round double butted Tubes.

If Serotta ( read Brian Smith) will build me the fork then I'll get a steel fork inserted to a 1 1/8 inch head tube just incase I want to use an Easton fork down the road .

[Ken Robb]

My Hampsten has the Alpha-Q cross fork and I like it a lot but it does not have the provision for fender mounting that the Easton does.

[dbrk]

There's a sun!! I am in Sarasota for a weekend of yoga smooze and this is apparently where the sun goes for the winter. It's been gone so long up in the Finger Lakes, I thought it was gone. Thank goodness. Enough of the weather report.

I don't think we have seen a Serotta yet built for the new Paul Racers, the centerpulls you see on my Kirk and the incoming Goodrich. THAT would be cool and they work GREAT and they are way easier to deal with than any cantilevers, including Pauls and if you get a spare set you are likely set up for life. And that would mean a steel fork and you a Serotta Dealer/Fitterkinda'guy would have something that is different, works great, cutting edge, and not run of the mill. Old good ideas are still good ideas. Get the ones requiring the braze-ons, not the bolt-throughs.

For the life of me I can't figure out why this option has not caught on among folks with custom steel bikes. They work great, they look beautiful, they are decidedly BETTER than cantilevers. Is it because centerpulls have a bad rep from the days when they were a good idea but poorly executed? Is it their "retro" reputation? (Gosh I hate calling good stuff "retro" becaues the mainstream industry doesn't make money selling something else as "better.") So much trepidation for this and so much commendation for cantilevers when the best of them still almost suck (that being the Paul's on the principle that no cantilever has ever been as good as a centerpull, 'cause that's just true).

feelin' feisty 'cause of the sunshine,

dbrk

[Ken Robb]

Sunny, high 70's at the beach today and I'm leaving it to go skiing in Mammoth where there was 8 feet of new snow last week--12 foot base ought to be enough. Snow is fun as long as I get to choose where and when I have it.

[Rapid Tourist]

$.02: I like the look of cantis much better than caliper brakes. They just look cool to me. And as a good friend of mine always says, "if the appearance is there, the reality will take care of itself." Makes me laugh every time.

That being said don't buy the frogleggs canti brakes that I bought from cyclocrossworld. Although they are beautys, the adjustment sucks and they do not allow you to toe in brake pads.

Have a blast with the build . Free yourself to obsess about the goodies. that 's half the fun.