what is campy waiting for to make athena level cassettes and chains??

[AngryScientist]

as a guy who always buys the least expensive "wear items", what is campy waiting for to make 11-sp athena cassettes and chains?? they spec athena "groupsets" with chorus parts, what gives?

[Joachim]

Since all Chorus users will probably end up buying Athena cassettes (how much different can they make Athena cassettes from Chorus?) with as result loss of revenue from Chorus. Ie Chorus will probably give larger margins than Athena.

[Tony T]

as a guy who always buys the least expensive "wear items", what is campy waiting for to make 11-sp athena cassettes and chains?? they spec athena "groupsets" with chorus parts, what gives?

From SR to Record, Campy reduces the # of Ti cogs. From Record to Chorus, all Ti cogs are replaced by steel.
So, what can Campy do from Chorus to Athena?

[FlashUNC]

There's nothing really to go "down" to.

The Chorus cassettes are all steel cogs. They've got at this point a three level delineation from Chorus-Record-Super Record cassettes with more ti as you go up the chain.

[christian]

Pig iron?

[Grant McLean]

Campagnolo has always shared sub assemblies and parts between groups.

It's actually kind of a silly concept to make something inferior
on purpose, just to make a different model. There is likely only a
tiny cost difference to manufacture some parts, and for sure
the market has become too fragmented, there are way too many
models of parts that all function identically.

-g

[tmf]

They could do like Shimano and make them "less shiny".

Out of curiosity, how many levels of cassettes does Shimano have? It seems like they have always had more "low end" cassette models available. What are the differences?

[thwart]

In 10 spd, the lower levels lose the cog carrier assemblies, and then as you descend further, lower quality steel for the cogs.

Perhaps 11 spd tolerances don't allow these changes.

As someone mentioned, there's less profit at the lower levels.

That said, if Campy ever really goes after the OEM market with 11 spd, it seems they would need a less expensive cassette option.

[lhuerta]

There's nothing really to go "down" to.

The Chorus cassettes are all steel cogs. They've got at this point a three level delineation from Chorus-Record-Super Record cassettes with more ti as you go up the chain.

+1...precisely, besides, I wouldn't want to use any
"lower quality" product then the reliable quality that Chorus offers.
Lou

PS-if your concern is the high price of current offerings, then consider getting your durables from Ribble Bike....Chorus cassette for $95 plus another 10% of and free shipping to US on orders over $100. That is about half the price of US (sorry LBS supporters)

[ergott]

lower quality steel for the cogs.


Really? Not being facetious, I didn't know that. I usually buy Veloce for 10 speed cassettes.

[thirdgenbird]

Really? Not being facetious, I didn't know that. I usually buy Veloce for 10 speed cassettes.

Veloce cogs have a different coating. I think the steel itself is the same.

[keevon]

Really? Not being facetious, I didn't know that. I usually buy Veloce for 10 speed cassettes.
I thought it was a matter of finish, not quality of steel. Lower-end Campy cassettes are usually galvanized, whereas higher-end are nickel plated. At least that's how it was for 10 speed.

I'm happy with my galvanized, loose cog, Mirage 10 speed cassettes. But that's just me.

[thirdgenbird]

That is how I remember it. The centaur cassette has gone through changes, but I know I've got one all loose cog centaur that is nickel plated and one veloce that is zinc. The nickel plating has a much more consistent finish but other than that you would be hard pressed to notice any difference.

Veloce cassettes and centaur chains is my standard. (With record 10)

[Ralph]

I would not be surprised to see an Athena specific 11 speed cassette in near furure. Here is why.

Current Veloce and loose cog Centaur 10 cassettes have spacers of 2.4MM for the small cogs, a 2.55mm spacer between the 6 and 7th cog, then 2.4mm for next few cogs, and then 1.6mm spacer between two largest cogs. (and I know about the centaur with 2 largest cogs on carrier)

I recently bought a 12-30 Centaur 10 cassette with 3 largest cogs on a carrier.....and the cogs on this are a tad thinner (around .1-.2 mm....my cheap calipers not so accurate) then the older loose cog 10 cassettes, and the spacers are 2.5MM thru out....all the same. Not different like older 10's.

So it seems to me....this new Centaur cassette with 3 largest cogs on carrier, may very well be the same width cogs as the 11's cassette, with slightly wider spacers than 11 would take. It would be so simple to use same cogs for 10 and 11 cassettes, just vary the spacer width. And with 3 cogs on carrier, which is less than Chorus, it w/b a step down as some of you call it. So I expect to see an Athena 11 cassette soon made similar to new Centaur. Same width cogs, just with thinner spacers. BTW....My new 12-30 Centaur 10 cassette with 3 cogs on carrier and thin cogs is lighter than all loose cog 13-26 10's cassette.

[Lewis Moon]

I love the loose cog Campy cassettes. I may just up and sell all of my Chorus and Record stuff.

I really like being able to mess with the gear ratios. For the upcoming Mt Graham hill climb I put to gether a 13-15-17-18-19-20-21-22-23-26. There are a couple of cogs that hesitate on the downshift (up the cassette), but I'd trade a half second of fiddling for 10 minutes of wanting to be in another gear. I'm trying to amass enough cogs/spacers so I have all the right letter designations for all the cogs.

[CunegoFan]

From SR to Record, Campy reduces the # of Ti cogs. From Record to Chorus, all Ti cogs are replaced by steel.
So, what can Campy do from Chorus to Athena?

More weight. Put fewer or smaller holes in the cogs.

[saab2000]

Really? Not being facetious, I didn't know that. I usually buy Veloce for 10 speed cassettes.

This. Me too. They appear to me to be identical to Chorus. I still use all sorts of 10-speed Campagnolo. I use Record chains purely for the sake of vanity but once had a Veloce and the ONLY difference I could tell was that the pins are not drilled, making it probably <10 grams heavier.

The cogs appear to be exactly the same as Chorus, but are not pinned to a carrier. I can't tell the difference riding and they're easier to clean.

[thwart]

Veloce cogs have a different coating. I think the steel itself is the same.

You know, you're right; I mis-spoke/typed... :no:

It's the coating on the cogs that varies. BTW, older Veloce cogs appear to have the higher quality coating used on Chorus and Centaur. The newer (past few years) Veloce appear to have the shiny, galvanized finish---what had been used on Mirage/Xenon level in the past.

[oliver1850]

Perhaps a loose cog 11 cassette will show up when Centaur switches to 11. I'm a bit surprised that 2014 Centaur will still be 10, not that I'm wanting 10 speed phased out completely.

[thirdgenbird]

You know, you're right; I mis-spoke/typed... :no:

It's the coating on the cogs that varies. BTW, older Veloce cogs appear to have the higher quality coating used on Chorus and Centaur. The newer (past few years) Veloce appear to have the shiny, galvanized finish---what had been used on Mirage/Xenon level in the past.

Yes. I think the mirage became veloce and veloce became centaur and at some point centaur got a carrier on some cassettes. I think this all happened when veloce and centaur lost ultra torque, ultra shift, and skeleton brakes. The bottom end of their line was just too good for a few years. Both groups were brought down a level. I would still take both over 105.

[champ]

The logical thing would be for Campy to make the Athena cassette without pairing the larest few cogs together and use all plastic spacers but the price wouldnt be much less than Chorus. Maybe a steel lockring and/or no drill-outs in the cogs would help lower the price? The Chorus chain has nowhere to go for a downgrade so it probably wont happen.