So, why Campagnolo?

[jpw]

Setting aside personal aesthetic sensibilities and tastes, and focusing on the mechanical and technical merits and demerits, why is Campagnolo seemingly so liked by so many in preference to Shimano (Dura Ace being the worthy comparison as it's still made in Japan)?

I've heard the old chestnut comparison of 'wearing in, wearing out', but what actually sets Campagnolo apart from Shimano and DA?

Campagnolo is expensive, but a lot of it is made in Romania and not Italy.

[oliver1850]

I liked the 8/9/10 stuff because it was so reliable and the shifters could be rebuilt. I have some STI but have always tried to avoid it. Also never cared for the indexed FD, makes swapping parts more problematic. Prefer to build Shimano bikes with DT or bar end shifters. Don't really care where any of it is made.

[PQJ]

Campagnolo wears in; Shimano wears out; SRAM doesn't wear at all.

I'm sure OldP will have much more on this for you than me...

[sevencyclist]

I personally like a brake lever that moves in only one axis. Both Shimano and SRAM have to rely on brake lever doubling as a shifter.

[eBAUMANN]

aesthetics aside, for me its the front shifting (granted i have never ridden newer 9000 or yaw stuff).

campy front shifters have more "stops" on the index ring, making it much easier to fine tune shifting...sram and shimano (pre yaw and 9000) only have 2, or 3 if you count the bogus trim function. SRAM and shimano front shifting is also just way harder to set up on SOME frames...ive done it on some where it worked perfect first try, but others would take hours to get it to stop dropping the chain on that 10th shift after working perfectly on the previous 9.

every system has a different "feel" that speaks to different people. for me, i have just found campy to have that perfect balance that makes me feel like im operating a very finely engineered (but definitely mechanical) system. I can feel every shift in every contact point on the bike and I love it. The idea of a bike shifting so discreetly that you dont even notice...well, it just doesnt really sound much fun to me.

also, this forum is full of bike nerds (myself included), so our fondness towards the already excellent campy mechanical system has some roots in cycling history as well.

[Ralph]

For me....I've always ridden Campy since 1973....so probably habit. I know Shimano makes good stuff. I also like the button/under brake lever for Campy shifting better. Really like the new hood design.

But main reason is.... I have the tools to work on Campy. And lots of parts to swap in if needed. Chainrings, BB's, Derailleurs short and med cage, etc. Old Cassettes where I can swap in cogs, etc. I know how to install and work on Campy for my bikes. Get new parts for one bike, move older parts to other bike.

If I rode Shimano....Ultegra or DA, I would probably have a good supply of tools and parts for that. Never saw the need to even think about SRAM.

[MilanoTom]

I personally like a brake lever that moves in only one axis. Both Shimano and SRAM have to rely on brake lever doubling as a shifter.

Same here. I also like the ability to go through more than one cog at a time with the thumb button. Unfortunately, that feature no longer exists on the new 10 speed levers.

Regards,
Tom

[zandrrr]

I personally like a brake lever that moves in only one axis. Both Shimano and SRAM have to rely on brake lever doubling as a shifter.

False. SRAM does not work this way.

[witcombusa]

Setting aside personal aesthetic sensibilities and tastes, and focusing on the mechanical and technical merits and demerits, why is Campagnolo seemingly so liked by so many in preference to Shimano (Dura Ace being the worthy comparison as it's still made in Japan)?




Shimano is my preference (actually REALLY fond of Suntour)


-and don't ride with anyones brifters...

[FlashUNC]

The shifters are ergonomically superior, at least according to my hands.

I prefer the Campy philosophy of each lever has one purpose -- whether that's the thumb button, the finger shifter or the brake lever. Each does one thing.

Shifting is distinct with more feedback than Shimano or SRAM.

The shifters are rebuildable.

I think their brake feel is more positive and linear than some of Shimano and SRAM's offering.

And it looks better.

[jpw]

a supplementary question to my original post.

is the electronic frontier just pornography?

[FlashUNC]

a supplementary question to my original post.

is the electronic frontier just pornography?

EPS is legit. It's here to stay imo.

[Fishbike]

I like the ergonomics, i.e. the shape and feel of the hoods. I like the feel of the brake lever.

I like the functionality. The separate mechanisms for upshifting and downshifting are logical and works really well across the line. Veloce gives up very little to Athena and Chorus.

I like the looks. Athena and Veloce in silver are great option for modern function on a classic steel frame. The black and carbon groups look good on any frame too. In my opinion, Shimano and Sram don't work aesthetically on a lot of frames.

I like the Italianess of it all. Yeah, I know it's not all made in Italy, but I often buy into the somewhat romanticized, somewhat silly view that Campagnolo belongs on steel Colnagos, Pegorettis, DeRosas, etc.

[witcombusa]

a supplementary question to my original post.

is the electronic frontier just pornography?


No, 'cause porn is a good thing...

[happycampyer]

Mods, can this be merged with the "Signs that Summer is officially over" thread?

[thwart]

Besides the obvious and already mentioned benefits of Campy stuff:

Clearly superior drivetrain for cycling if you do hilly terrain, and run a compact crank. The multiple cog drop feature almost seems to be designed with this application in mind.

Only downsides I can think of:
Thumb-shifter makes it a bit more difficult to drop gears while riding in the drops.
Easier to mistakenly drop 2 or 3 cogs, rather than one, when shifting in extreme racing conditions.

[mcteague]

The way the shifter hoods fit my hands.
The ability to trim the FD if need be, although I never seem to need to with 11s.
The shape of the crank arms as compared to Shimano.
Brakes seem to give me more feel if not more outright stopping power.
A lot of it is still made in Italy, just not the carbon stuff.
The history.

Tim

[Tony T]

...why is Campagnolo seemingly so liked by so many in preference to Shimano

Because they don't make fishing gear ;)

[bikeridah]

I started out with 2 bikes, one with Shimano DA and Campy record, both 9s. I stuck with Campy due to the underbar brake wiring at the time and thumb paddles.

[AngryScientist]

the hood shape and feel are what i like the best. all of my bikes, except the geekhouse are campy.

that said, my last 1000+ miles have been ridden on microshift shifters; and, while not nearly as nice as the campy gear, have been just fantastic. so, it all works.

[jpw]

the hood shape and feel are what i like the best. all of my bikes, except the geekhouse are campy.

that said, my last 1000+ miles have been ridden on microshift shifters; and, while not nearly as nice as the campy gear, have been just fantastic. so, it all works.

microshift shifters?

[bart998]

Most has already been said. I have Sram on one bike and Campy on the rest. I really like being able to fine tune the front derailleur. I like the Sram except the lack of front derailleur tunability renders my gear choices fewer. I don't like Shimano's brifters at all, the lever going sideways is just screwed up.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

More adjustability on the front D. Up and down "dump" at the rear D.
Hood shape (10S and 11S).
Love the aesthetics of the shifters, cranks and brakes (Chorus 10S up, Record 11S up).
Rebuildable.

***All my bikes are Campy, except my MTBs.

[laupsi]

it's Italian, damnit!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2KFMD5xZVE

[laupsi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMjavRu4v5c

[enr1co]

I confess, I did stray from Campy SR to DA back in the late 80's due to their 7400 SIS downtube shifters. Campy had a hard time competing w SIS with their Synchos offering.

Went back to Campy with their ergopower 8 and never looked back- the feel of the lever body/hood and thumb shifters have always worked well for my mitts.

Never liked the Shimano STI body feel, the external cables and the "floppy" sideways moving brake lever.

Additionally, tough to beat this logo :cool::D
http://flaviozappi.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/campa_logo.jpg

[AngryScientist]

microshift shifters?

yup

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vNCuJW6Jg2w/UbT4Yd4z8gI/AAAAAAAABRU/eXaWrgw2TiQ/s640/IMG_1300.JPG

[MattTuck]

I've been happy with Ultegra (except for the hood ergonomics).... I think the better question is whether Campagnolo is worth the price difference. (I would have put Chorus on my bike if it had been cost competitive with Ultegra)

yeah, you can rebuild it and all that stuff, and it has a more mechanical feel, and it looks better, and feels better in the hands, and its Italian and Merckx, Hinnault, Bartali and Coppi (among many others) all rode Campy...

Still, it gets back to whether the intangibles (which it has in spades over Shimano and SRAM) are worth the premium. If you're just looking for a group that shifts, it is hard to justify the cost differential, in my opinion.



PS. If you have an Italian frame, and don't put Campy on it, don't be surprised if you get jacked with a sock full of pennies.

[sevencyclist]

False. SRAM does not work this way.
You are right. The SRAM brake lever does not move in more than one axis. Only the smaller lever which is same as the Campy. Thanks.:)

[christian]

My first serious bike had Veloce 8 Ergos. I really liked the way that worked, and never seriously looked in another direction.

But at this point, having ridden a lot of bikes with a lot of component groups, it boils down to four things:

1) Friction/ratchet front shifting trim
2) Multi-drop rear shifting
3) Brake levers move in one dimension only
4) Current investment in C10 would make moving groups prohibitively expensive.

My plan is C10 until 2016 or 2017, and then EPS or Di2.

[MilanoTom]

a supplementary question to my original post.

is the electronic frontier just pornography?

What do you mean JUST pornography???

Most folks I see with EPS (or Di2, for that matter) need it like a hole in the head. It's high-priced status bling IMO.

Regards,
Tom

[oliver1850]

EPS is legit. It's here to stay imo.

As long as it stays on your bikes.

I don't want anything with a battery on my bike, but put up with battery powered lights because I'm too cheap to build a bunch of generator wheels.

[Mark McM]

Campy puts the brake quick release in the lever, as opposed to the brake quick release on the caliper. If you forget to close the quick release, there is no loss in brake action/performance (your fingers just have to reach a little further to the lever until you close the quick release).

And for the weight weenies - Campagnolo groups are lighter than Shimano groups.

[MattTuck]

My first serious bike had Veloce 8 Ergos. I really liked the way that worked, and never seriously looked in another direction.

But at this point, having ridden a lot of bikes with a lot of component groups, it boils down to four things:

1) Friction/ratchet front shifting trim
2) Multi-drop rear shifting
3) Brake levers move in one dimension only
4) Current investment in C10 would make moving groups prohibitively expensive.

My plan is C10 until 2016 or 2017, and then EPS or Di2.

Christian, my friend.... your fleet upgrade strategy is more cogent and forward looking than most Fortune 500 company strategies. Do you have the Gantt chart indicating which bikes will be first? ;)

PS. It might be di3 by that point :P

[FlashUNC]

As long as it stays on your bikes.

I don't want anything with a battery on my bike, but put up with battery powered lights because I'm too cheap to build a bunch of generator wheels.

I don't necessarily get this fear that electronic means everthing else is automatically outdated. You can still buy freewheels for Pete's sake.

Mechanical's going to be around for a long time. Ride and love it -- Lord knows I do.

But the electronic stuff really is superior in a couple noticeable ways.

[oliver1850]

Got a new FW in the mail today. :hello: No fear of being outdated, just don't want to rely on a battery.

[cmg]

rebuildable, meant to last forever. have alot of bits, very interchangable, familar with the setup. I like to go against the grain. if on the first club ride everyone had campy i'd would have adapted to shimano buy luckly that wasn't the case. the explanation defies logic and that's a good thing.

[enr1co]

Got a new FW in the mail today. :hello: No fear of being outdated, just don't want to rely on a battery.

Im all for electric technology... I want to buy an electric car as I see big value in moving away from gas dependency.

For cycling needs, I dont see a time or money dividend with an upgrade to EPS or DI (staying on the Campy topic). Its not much more effort for me
to flick my mechanical ergo levers and thumb shift button than a couple of electric ones.

[bikemoore]

May be meant to last forever, but mechanical reality means that it does eventually wear and need substantial service. My 1994 8v Chorus Ergopower badly needs rebuilt. Won't hold the gear under heavy load or over sharp bumps. No feedback on shifts. Granted, 18 years of operation is pretty darn good. But forever is a stretch.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

[Drmojo]

Form vs. function?
I also like Suntour
Here's to their rebirth!!

[dd74]

Campy mechanical is great. It just works, period. I see no need to change. EPS is even better.

[plattyjo]

Ha, I just wrote up a list of "10 rules for bike building (http://storify.com/plattyjo/the-10-rules-of-bike-building)" and rules 6 & 7 refer to Campy.

I've grown up on Campy so I stick with it out of habit, fondness and because it feels more intuitive to me than Shimano (although I use Shimano on my MTB and touring bike.)

[saab2000]

It evokes emotion. Nothing more, nothing less.

It is not 'better' than Shimano, even though some folks try to find justifications, however minor, one way or another.

I am a lifelong user of Campagnolo so I'm not pandering to anyone. It creates a bond between the rider and the machine as many Campagnolo riders do much of their own maintenance and bike builds and have hands-on experience with the stuff. That's not to say Shimano riders don't. But I think Campagnolo riders like the tactile experience of building a bike and maintaining it and the mechanical feel of the riding experience, which is more tactile than Shimano.

But Campagnolo has always been about the experience and the emotion and the attachment to the racing end of the cycling spectrum. Shimano has always been about technological advancement, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

[Columbus SLX]

Apart from any intangibles, for me it's the multi-cog upshifting and the long-term serviceability. Simple.

I don't worry about the higher cost vs. other brands because it holds its value really well. Provided you get a reasonable deal when you buy, you don't waste a dime on it if'n you decide to sell.

[weiwentg]

May be meant to last forever, but mechanical reality means that it does eventually wear and need substantial service. My 1994 8v Chorus Ergopower badly needs rebuilt. Won't hold the gear under heavy load or over sharp bumps. No feedback on shifts. Granted, 18 years of operation is pretty darn good. But forever is a stretch.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

well, the cellphone you sent this from will eventually break. it's got complex electronics inside. electronics can wear out as well. who knows what sort of long-term failures EPS or Di2 will incur and how easily they'll be fixed?

[Bobbo]

Been a campag convert since 2008. For me, it's a mechanical and quality thing. Campag just makes everything else feel like a kid's toy. How can you make something feel completely overbuilt and jewel-like at the same time? This translates to their wheels, too. There is not a better factory-made wheel out there.

[eippo1]

One can find Campy at decent costs if they look online and many shops are glad to sell older stock at a discount to get rid of it.

That said, I have a bikes with Red, Force, 7800, Chorus and X9. They all fit my hands (actually found 7900 to be way uncomfortable), they all work and I really like variety. I also like working on all my bikes and find I enjoy having all different systems to work on. They all have their advantages and their disadvantages and there are reasons why each found their respective bike. I could go into that more if anyone is interested.

[MattTuck]

well, the cellphone you sent this from will eventually break. it's got complex electronics inside. electronics can wear out as well. who knows what sort of long-term failures EPS or Di2 will incur and how easily they'll be fixed?

I'm surprised by the resistance to di2 or EPS on the grounds the underlying technology is suspect. Dead batteries, faulty switches, etc. seems like the cycling companies have us talking about the wrong things.

The simple truth is that it is the iPhone for the bike. And not in an electronic way, but in a "new version every few years, and you need to buy it to stay on the forefront" kind of way. If you strip away the trench coat of technology, it is naked consumerism at its core.

How many people were demanding auto-trim front derailleurs and the ability to shift under load before di2 came out? Now these are used as justifications for the systems.

Are there people clamoring for wireless shifting now? Certainly not the masses! But when they release wireless electronic shifting in 2 years, everyone will be saying how much cleaner the bike looks without shifting cables and many will be sorry they drilled holes in their frames. You wait and see! ;)

Seriously. :)


The surest bet right now in the financial markets is cable actuated campy groups. If we were smart, we'd pool our money and form the Strategic National Campagnolo Reserve. We could all be rich!

[cfox]

Campagnolo wears in; Shimano wears out; SRAM doesn't wear at all.

I'm sure OldP will have much more on this for you than me...

I have ridden about a kajillion miles on both C and S and I can say the above is statement in bold is silly. In fact, I have 2 bikes right now, one C bike and one S bike. I have no passionate attachment to either brand, but believe me, they both work awesome possum, and they both wear out (only after a long, long, long time). I've never ridden a SRAM road group so I don't know about them.

[vqdriver]

interestingly, the one group that's never ever given me a hiccup and forever refused to die was my tricolor 600 group, the first generation (i think) of integrated shift/brake levers. it just kept on chugging. as far as i know, it's still being flogged by a forumite.

[fuzzalow]

Q: Why Campagnolo?

A: Willful denial of the existence, suitability, design aesthetics and functional coherence of any other road cycle component manufacturer save Campagnolo Spa.

[soulspinner]

I personally like a brake lever that moves in only one axis. Both Shimano and SRAM have to rely on brake lever doubling as a shifter.

This, and great reliability I have gotten out of 8 and 10 speed groups. We will see about 11 speed reliability but I have grown to love 11 speed hoods better than Shimano or Srams (have yet to try Srams newest hood design).

[corky]

I love my EPS..... really love it

[dd74]

...and many will be sorry they drilled holes in their frames. You wait and see! ;)
The holes can be plugged.

[Mark McM]

Why Campagnolo?

Because by the time I wore out my Zeus compnents the company had gone out business, so I had to move over to the next best thing.


http://www.velo-pages.com/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=16867&g2_serialNumber=2

[Tony T]

because..... http://anniversary.campagnolo.com/assets/logo_header-3704ea559a5600ece2c2e62c0e990fd8.png (http://anniversary.campagnolo.com) gruppo! :banana:

[sg8357]

Why Campy ?

Because Chater Lea and Cyclo-Benelux are out of business.

Anyone have a British Cyclo 3 speed freewheel ?

[hainy]

My first Bianchi Steel road bike came with Mirage 8 speed and liked it so not used anything else other then. It has been a slow progression but at the moment very happy with 10 speed centaur on both bikes with a couple of chorus bits. I suppose one day it will be 11 speed chorus on both or EPS.

[merckx]

I'm still chewing through my French fetish.

What ever gets you down the road.

[Louis]

why is Campagnolo seemingly so liked by so many in preference to Shimano

Last time I checked, Shimano outsells Campy by a huge margin. (Of course your statement doesn't necessarily conflict, but it hints that Campy has a lot more users than Shimano, which is not correct.)

It's just that all the Campy fans, like most cult members, can't stop talking about how great it is. Shimano users don't feel obliged to proselytize, they just use the stuff, and don't feel that they have to worship it.

[dd74]

Shimano users don't feel obliged to proselytize, they just use the stuff, and don't feel that they have to worship it.
Yeah, just like Nissan owners when facing Ferraris.

[Louis]

Yeah, just like Nissan owners when facing Ferraris.

I rest my case. :)

[SpokeValley]

...and I've had it since 1988. Had the rest, too, off and on.

All of the groups work well, period.

But the craftsmanship, tradition, and functionality just lift my skirt. (When I wear one, that is.)

Plus, it's NOT on every friggin bike on the road and that, to me, has enormous value.

[rounder]

Last time I checked, Shimano outsells Campy by a huge margin. (Of course your statement doesn't necessarily conflict, but it hints that Campy has a lot more users than Shimano, which is not correct.)

It's just that all the Campy fans, like most cult members, can't stop talking about how great it is. Shimano users don't feel obliged to proselytize, they just use the stuff, and don't feel that they have to worship it.

Maybe Shimano outsells Campy because the original equipment manufacturers are committed to Shimano. Maybe there are a lot of other folks who equipped/built their own bikes who have preferred Campy.

I dunno. I had Shimano then switched to Campy. It was not for lack of performance. I had duraace. It was more for...loved the history, loved the way it looked, loved the way it worked, no problems so far. You can't ease on into it. You have to make a commitment. I switched over. Like SAAB said, it may be emotional. I did it and it was worth it to me.

[Louis]

Maybe there are a lot of other folks who equipped/built their own bikes who have preferred Campy.

I'm sure there are a lot, but whether or not they are the majority of all DIY-types is the issue, and until someone out there produces official numbers I'll remain skeptical.

[plattyjo]

...my favorite LBS has this on one of their jerseys:

http://www.plattyjo.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/cramp.jpg

[rounder]

I'm sure there are a lot, but whether or not they are the majority of all DIY-types is the issue, and until someone out there produces official numbers I'll remain skeptical.

Who cares what out sells. You like what you like. I can afford both. Not that I have lots of funds. I prefer Campy. Like the way it works and like the way it looks.

[Louis]

Who cares what out sells.

You may not care, but it's related to the OP's original question:

why is Campagnolo seemingly so liked by so many in preference to Shimano

You like what you like.

Agreed, but that wouldn't make for an very interesting conversation. Since one the OP's question is "Why?" simply answering "Because!" would not be sufficient.

[R3awak3n]

I am sure if campy was cheaper it would sell much much more.

[thirdgenbird]

I am sure if campy was cheaper it would sell much much more.

Most good products would.

[Louis]

Most good products would.

And if it were free it would have a 99% market share... ;)

[rwsaunders]

I recently took ownership of an older lugged steel bike that was equipped with a Record 10 speed group. Call me a bit jaded, but it just looks right on that particular bike, this coming from a guy who's happy with DA-7700 9 speed on my other two bikes. I'm waiting on a stem to finish the build and then I'm looking forward my first experience with Campagnolo.

[rustychisel]

Campagnolo = Rapha

Shimano = Pearl Izumi

:fight:

[Louis]

http://poietes.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/sophia-loren.jpg?w=400&h=376

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_dpC1u_HUeuY/S9opF4uU3hI/AAAAAAAAAC8/6c2d5cdocfw/s1600/PromoPictureB.jpg

[R3awak3n]

shouldnt it be an older asian lady considering shimano is older than campy?

[CunegoFan]

http://poietes.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/sophia-loren.jpg?w=400&h=376

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_dpC1u_HUeuY/S9opF4uU3hI/AAAAAAAAAC8/6c2d5cdocfw/s1600/PromoPictureB.jpg

Eek! This may convince me to switch to Shimano.

[Louis]

shouldnt it be an older asian lady considering shimano is older than campy?

Most people don't know that, and some say that they like Campy for the history...

[Tony]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVQBVE9BzYk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6MfKy9HaAo

[Louis]

http://riverdaleaplit.edublogs.org/files/2012/04/danteinferno-1psk9aj.jpg

http://www.adams2.smmusd.org/Teachers/pzrinzo/HistoryPages/%20Web%20Pages%203/Japan%20during%20the%20Heian%20Period/Welser,%20Amanda%20%20Web%20Pages/Tale_of_Genji_Toyokuni_Utagawa_print%202.jpg

[happycampyer]

Hmmm...

[macaroon]

So, if I was to get a campagnolo groupset, which should I go for?

Super Record would be the obviosu choice, although it's way outta my budget.

I'm thinking Second hand Chorus 11 since it has Ultrashift.

But what else? Second hand Record 10? Which other groupsets have Ultra····?

[oldpotatoe]

Setting aside personal aesthetic sensibilities and tastes, and focusing on the mechanical and technical merits and demerits, why is Campagnolo seemingly so liked by so many in preference to Shimano (Dura Ace being the worthy comparison as it's still made in Japan)?

I've heard the old chestnut comparison of 'wearing in, wearing out', but what actually sets Campagnolo apart from Shimano and DA?

Campagnolo is expensive, but a lot of it is made in Romania and not Italy.

-Most functional(more than one higher gear at a time, SR, Record,Chorus)
-Better intercompatibility, particularly when considering shimano DA and now Ultegra
-More repairable-lever innards, derailleur parts(like FD cage). Break a shifter blade-replace. Break a shifter blade on shimano DA-warranty or throw away.
-Comfy levers-altho that IS personal
-Simple shifter innards-nothing to really go wrong

NOT more expensive than DA or Ultegra.

Plus it's Italiano-next question?

[oldpotatoe]

EPS is legit. It's here to stay imo.

BUT, if mechanical shifting was somehow unreliable, not accurate or something..and electronic solved that..sure but mechnical isn't those things.

EPS is keen, I like it more than Di2(fewer connectors, more robust, IMHO) but answer to a not asked question.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm surprised by the resistance to di2 or EPS on the grounds the underlying technology is suspect. Dead batteries, faulty switches, etc. seems like the cycling companies have us talking about the wrong things.

The simple truth is that it is the iPhone for the bike. And not in an electronic way, but in a "new version every few years, and you need to buy it to stay on the forefront" kind of way. If you strip away the trench coat of technology, it is naked consumerism at its core.

How many people were demanding auto-trim front derailleurs and the ability to shift under load before di2 came out? Now these are used as justifications for the systems.

Are there people clamoring for wireless shifting now? Certainly not the masses! But when they release wireless electronic shifting in 2 years, everyone will be saying how much cleaner the bike looks without shifting cables and many will be sorry they drilled holes in their frames. You wait and see! ;)

Seriously. :)


The surest bet right now in the financial markets is cable actuated campy groups. If we were smart, we'd pool our money and form the Strategic National Campagnolo Reserve. We could all be rich!

'Wireless' will still have hard wired power sources for the derailleurs. Will still have 'wires..just not connected to the shifters, I suspect. AND gonna have to have batteries in the levers, to 'transmit'. Hard wired, into where the interface is now.

[Tony T]

So, if I was to get a campagnolo groupset, which should I go for?
Super Record would be the obviosu choice, although it's way outta my budget.
I'm thinking Second hand Chorus 11 since it has Ultrashift.
But what else? Second hand Record 10? Which other groupsets have Ultra····?

If SR and Record are not in your budget, save for a new Chorus 11
(most of the diff btwn Chorus and SR/Record are weight savings, i.e. more Ti)

[oldpotatoe]

I am sure if campy was cheaper it would sell much much more.

Porsche tried that as did Mercedez. Rolex had an electronic digital watch...all bombed. Like buying a Alfa instead of a Toyota, it's not about price.

BTW-Campagnolo is NOT 'more expensive'..if you look at materials, NOT saying these materials are essential in any way, WHY is a group that's mostly aluminum(DA) SO expensive..same price as Record with carbon.

Particularly when they make a clone of it, 6800, which is 1/2 the price of DA 9000.

Record-DA

6800-Chorus

5700-Athena

Centaur and Veloce light years better than Tiagra or Sora.

BUT Ain't about price.

[oldpotatoe]

So, if I was to get a campagnolo groupset, which should I go for?

Super Record would be the obviosu choice, although it's way outta my budget.

I'm thinking Second hand Chorus 11 since it has Ultrashift.

But what else? Second hand Record 10? Which other groupsets have Ultra····?

How about mix and match..if ya gotta have 'coffee shop points', get Super Record levers., but Chorus FD, brakes, crank, cogset, chain, Record RD...type thing.

BEST value is Chorus tho..but get Chorus levers and otherwise all else Athena, Chorus cogset/chain....

[Tommasini53]

Setting aside personal aesthetic sensibilities and tastes, and focusing on the mechanical and technical merits and demerits, why is Campagnolo seemingly so liked by so many in preference to Shimano (Dura Ace being the worthy comparison as it's still made in Japan)?

I've heard the old chestnut comparison of 'wearing in, wearing out', but what actually sets Campagnolo apart from Shimano and DA?

Campagnolo is expensive, but a lot of it is made in Romania and not Italy.

I don't know that there is a characteristic that sets it a part from DA..both are very very good; I've used and worked on both. Simply a matter of preference. The actual prices paid for the groupsets are very similar.

My personal preference...is Campy. sets up easy, works very well, durable (especially the wheelsets) and I've never been disappointed.

[oldpotatoe]

I don't know that there is a characteristic that sets it a part from DA..both are very very good; I've used and worked on both. Simply a matter of preference. The actual prices paid for the groupsets are very similar.

My personal preference...is Campy. sets up easy, works very well, durable (especially the wheelsets) and I've never been disappointed.

This is always a fascinating discussion. because the most important 'thing' on a bicycle isn't the group at all..it's the frame/fork, of course, the heart and soul of the bicycle.

BUT only 2 1/2 'premium' component group makers out there..so it is an emotional discussion always.

I would rather ride my Merckx with apex than some crappy frame with SR...Thankfully I don't have to make that choice tho...

[thirdgenbird]

Centaur and Veloce light years better than Tiagra or Sora.

Yes it is.

The prior generation centaur with ultra-shift, ultra-torque, and skeleton brakes was right up there with dura ace (and weighed less)

[FlashUNC]

BUT, if mechanical shifting was somehow unreliable, not accurate or something..and electronic solved that..sure but mechnical isn't those things.

EPS is keen, I like it more than Di2(fewer connectors, more robust, IMHO) but answer to a not asked question.

I mostly agree with what you're saying. I think what the system offers in terms of benefits of electronic vs mechanical are real. Bfut folks seem to assume that's a sweeping indictment of mechanical -- which works just fine it's own right and I love just as much.

Just seems to be the sense that it's a zero-sum game. That electronic means the death of mechanical, when both can clearly co-exist in the marketplace.

[macaroon]

How about mix and match..if ya gotta have 'coffee shop points', get Super Record levers., but Chorus FD, brakes, crank, cogset, chain, Record RD...type thing.

BEST value is Chorus tho..but get Chorus levers and otherwise all else Athena, Chorus cogset/chain....

Good idea - can you tell me more?

I'm assuming Chorus Shifters and Chainset? And then everything else Athena?

Which is the key stuff to buy if I want to keep it light? For example, the cheaper Shimano Cassettes (below 105 I think) use too much steel and are pretty heavy.

Whats the score with the Athena chainset as opposed to Chorus?

[oldpotatoe]

Good idea - can you tell me more?

I'm assuming Chorus Shifters and Chainset? And then everything else Athena?

Which is the key stuff to buy if I want to keep it light? For example, the cheaper Shimano Cassettes (below 105 I think) use too much steel and are pretty heavy.

Whats the score with the Athena chainset as opposed to Chorus?

I won't tell you to buy things to keep it light. SuperRecord rear der, front der, are the lightest but not the most durable.

Cassettes and chains are consumables..least expensive compatible cogset and chain.

Ultrashift levers are the best choice, Chorus is the lowest level Ultrashift lever-get that..otherwise all else Athena if you wish..it' all compatible-

Athena chainset is PowerTorque, different design..not bad, just different.

[tmf]

Good idea - can you tell me more?

I'm assuming Chorus Shifters and Chainset? And then everything else Athena?

Which is the key stuff to buy if I want to keep it light? For example, the cheaper Shimano Cassettes (below 105 I think) use too much steel and are pretty heavy.

Whats the score with the Athena chainset as opposed to Chorus?

I would recommend sticking with an Ultra Torque (UT) chainset, and I prefer the carbon to the older alloy Centaur, etc. This pretty much points you to Chorus unless you want to go up to Record or Super Record.

For shifters, you want to go with Ultra Shift, which again points you to Chorus.

For derailleurs and brake calipers, the Athena will work great with the above.

[FlashUNC]

Good idea - can you tell me more?

I'm assuming Chorus Shifters and Chainset? And then everything else Athena?

Which is the key stuff to buy if I want to keep it light? For example, the cheaper Shimano Cassettes (below 105 I think) use too much steel and are pretty heavy.

Whats the score with the Athena chainset as opposed to Chorus?

I've got a Chorus/Athena mixed setup. Even has a 10-speed square taper crank. Works great.

[oldpotatoe]

I've got a Chorus/Athena mixed setup. Even has a 10-speed square taper crank. Works great.

Yep, 10s cranks works fine with 11s shifters, as long as they are Ultrashift.
Not so really with Athena and Powershift tho...

[tuxbailey]

I used Shimano for 10 years and then got Chorus with the Merlin that I bought, they both worked for me but I think if I can afford it I will stay with Campy because I found that it fits my hands better.

But theoretically it should work forever since it is the 10 speed square taper variety :)

[Lewis Moon]

BUT, if mechanical shifting was somehow unreliable, not accurate or something..and electronic solved that..sure but mechnical isn't those things.

EPS is keen, I like it more than Di2(fewer connectors, more robust, IMHO) but answer to a not asked question.

There ya go. The new business model in a nutshell.

[jpw]

I did once buy Campagnolo, the first season of 'ergopower' shifters, in 1993 (i think). I wasn't at all smitten by the thumb shifting buttons. I assume things have improved a little bit since then.

I have noticed tha deep discounts are being offered at the moment on record/ super record/ EPS components. Would that simply be because it's the end of the season in the northern hemisphere, or are there going to be new features and significant upgrades for the 2014 line?

I really must get to a good LBS or show and get my mitts on this gear.

[#campyuserftw]

Every time a Campy gruppo is bought, assembled, or a gear changed during a ride, the following ten things occur:

1. The font of Holy Water at the Vatican gains by one drop.
2. Celine Dion edges one day closer to retirement.
3. Eddy Merckx pets a puppy.
4. A twerker mildly sprains an ankle.
5. Morrissey is able to prevent a cow from being slaughtered.
6. The NSA loses dial tone.
7. Bill Murray contemplates a 'Life Aquatic' sequel.
8. Cable bills are decreased by .000000000000000000000001 of a cent.
9. Matt Damon clicks 'like' on the "Do Not Allow Ben Affleck to be Batman" Facebook page.
10. Sarah Silverman really blanks Matt Damon.

[Louis]

Every time a Campy gruppo is bought, assembled, or a gear changed during a ride, the following ten things occur:


Re: #10 - Matt Damon owes this forum big-time.

[tmf]

Every time a Campy gruppo is bought, assembled, or a gear changed during a ride, the following ten things occur:

2. Celine Dion edges one day closer to retirement.



This is the real reason I ride Campy. I'm on at least my sixth gruppo!

[Louis]

This is the real reason I ride Campy. I'm on at least my sixth gruppo!

Hater. ;)

[Columbus SLX]

Every time a Campy gruppo is bought, assembled, or a gear changed during a ride, the following ten things occur:

1. The font of Holy Water at the Vatican gains by one drop.
2. Celine Dion edges one day closer to retirement.
3. Eddy Merckx pets a puppy.
4. A twerker mildly sprains an ankle.
5. Morrissey is able to prevent a cow from being slaughtered.
6. The NSA loses dial tone.
7. Bill Murray contemplates a 'Life Aquatic' sequel.
8. Cable bills are decreased by .000000000000000000000001 of a cent.
9. Matt Damon clicks 'like' on the "Do Not Allow Ben Affleck to be Batman" Facebook page.
10. Sarah Silverman really blanks Matt Damon.

Wins the internet today!

[witcombusa]

Most of this sounds to me more like snob appeal than mechanical excellence.


If Suntours' patent never expired on the slant-parallelogram rear derailleur, they would still shift like crap.

[christian]

Most of this sounds to me more like snob appeal than mechanical excellence.Nonsense. I use Shimano gears at least once a weekend. On the Sahara reel in my rowboat! When it comes to landing dinner, Shimano has Campagnolo beat by a mile.

[fiamme red]

Most of this sounds to me more like snob appeal than mechanical excellence.Even the biggest Campy snobs will put Shimano or SRAM on their MTB.

[christian]

Thank you Fiamme Red. I use Shimano twice per weekend at least, then.

XT on the MTB, Sahara 2500 in the boat. I'm pretty much a Shimano-aholic.

(BTW, Sahara 2500 is a ridiculously nice reel.)

[witcombusa]

Even the biggest Campy snobs will put Shimano or SRAM on their MTB.

So they didn't hoard the Euclid or OR groups? :confused:

[thirdgenbird]

Even the biggest Campy snobs will put Shimano or SRAM on their MTB.

So they didn't hoard the Euclid or OD groups? :confused:

There is always single speed.

[Mark McM]

Even the biggest Campy snobs will put Shimano or SRAM on their MTB.

I've still got a full Suntour group on my MTB.

[PQJ]

Even the biggest Campy snobs will put Shimano or SRAM on their MTB.

Speak for yourself yo. I eschew mountain biking entirely because I won't stoop to shimano or shram!!!!

[oldpotatoe]

Most of this sounds to me more like snob appeal than mechanical excellence.


If Suntours' patent never expired on the slant-parallelogram rear derailleur, they would still shift like crap.

Yes and yes...guilty..snob appeal and mechanical excellence. I use a Rolex also, not a Seiko or Timex or Casio or Citizen.

Yet, it did and they do not, but if it hadn't sram wouldn't exist..not a bad thing...too bad for you.

[witcombusa]

Yes and yes...guilty..sbob appeal and mechanical excellence. I use a Rolex also, not a Seiko or Timex or Casio or Citizen.

Yet, it did and they do not...too bad for you.


Well, yes it is too bad that they did not continue producing great components.

But I've got more than enough to continue to enjoy them for my lifetime :banana:

[bikinchris]

They pay their workers living wages. It is sustainable...

[#campyuserftw]

Every time a Campy gruppo is bought, assembled, or a gear changed during a ride, the following ten things occur:

1. The font of Holy Water at the Vatican gains by one drop.
2. Celine Dion edges one day closer to retirement.
3. Eddy Merckx pets a puppy.
4. A twerker mildly sprains an ankle.
5. Morrissey is able to prevent a cow from being slaughtered.
6. The NSA loses dial tone.
7. Bill Murray contemplates a 'Life Aquatic' sequel.
8. Cable bills are decreased by .000000000000000000000001 of a cent.
9. Matt Damon clicks 'like' on the "Do Not Allow Ben Affleck to be Batman" Facebook page.
10. Sarah Silverman really blanks Matt Damon.

To the haters, I lied. About # 8, your cable bill. It will never, ever, ever go down. So...

8. Sarah Palin sees Russia from her Campy equipped snow mobile, upon which, she reads all kinds of magazines.

:)

[choke]

Even the biggest Campy snobs will put Shimano or SRAM on their MTB.I did before I knew better. Now one has Campy and one has Sachs/Suntour.

[rounder]

I bet that for most people here, their good bike is one of the best things that they own. Why not put the good stuff on your bike. Does not mean that it has to be Campy.

[john903]

Would "why shimano" create 8 pages of passionate responses? Shimano works and is good, but there is just something about Campagnolo. Personally I like the feel of the 10sp levers (there not brifters) and the solid feel of the shifts and the Italian esperiante.

Have fun what ever you ride.

[KJMUNC]

oh man where to start? I've been resisting this thread but finally had to weigh in and offer my thoughts. Before I get started let's just all agree that most of us are passionate one way or another, like Chevy vs. Ford, never to be converted, and therefore you could argue forever and some will never be convinced of the attributes that you may so clearly see from your opposing view. But you asked, so here goes.....

For me, it starts when I was 8yrs old and my best friend had a well weathered cycling cap he got from his dad, the kind with the Campagnolo script across the bill. It was olive drab and for a kid in no-where-ville Oklahoma, the mystique of the Italian brand, the curve of the script and the fact that it was virtualy unattainable to me (not like my LBS every had anything that cool) were all just overpowering. It was akin to seeing a Ferrari 250 racecar for the first time....it was changed my entire worldview. The funny thing is, for a while I didn't know if it they made bikes, sponsored teams or what, I just knew they were seriously hot sh*t in my book.

Then I became a cyclist and several things happened: in 80's mail order catalogs I saw things like Delta brakes and C-record gruppos and was blown away by their aesthetic and design. The prices shocked me, and they instantly become and object of desire. Then I saw things like the Campy Icons and learned about Tullio's long history of innovation and design. On top of cycling components they made wheels for iconic models of Ferrari, BMW, and Lambo....long my other passion.

I've ridden and raced every brand of groupset out there, but it's my long standing appreciation of the brand, the workmanship, design, and aesthetics and the passion of Campy that set Campy apart.

Are there lighter components? Sure.

Are there components that boast lots of innovation on their own merit? Of course.

For me there's only one Campy and it's something you either get or you don't. I could wax on about the ability to rebuild, and all of the other technical details covered ad nauseum by others, but that's not why I choose Campy.

I just feel Campy and choose something that I feel I share a similar passionate connection to. Shimano makes solid stuff....just not for me.

Plus who could argue with these?

[Louis]

Dude, you have to admit, that is hideous.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697867859&stc=1&d=1380080920

[Elefantino]

Why not?

It's great that we have choices. I like my choice better than your choice because, well, it's my choice. It feels/works/looks better (to me) and makes me feel/work/look better (or so I've been told! :D).

[dd74]

Hideous because it looks like it's met the pavement once or twice. Really, when on a frame, it looks very nice.

I see the aesthetics this way: Shimano looks industrial and purposeful. While we all know Campagnolo is purposeful, all Campagnolo has to do is look pretty.

[#campyuserftw]

Dude, you have to admit, that is hideous

Dude, here's a Shimano RD:

http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server2300/e7305/products/35/images/139/TOR50-2__63490.1293051779.1280.1280.jpg

:beer:

[Louis]

Big deal. Both companies make stuff that isn't cycling-related.

[CircuitHero]

The lever pressure is too light on Campy. Sram is too clicky. Shimano is also obviously more refined than both, and doesn't have that plastic-like feeling.

[KidWok]

Hate both of them when I'm riding the other:butt:...can't find the thumb shifter on my Shimano bikes and keep shifting down when I mean to shift up on my Campy bikes. Thinking about switching to SRAM:eek:.

Tai

[soulspinner]

Dude, here's a Shimano RD:

http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server2300/e7305/products/35/images/139/TOR50-2__63490.1293051779.1280.1280.jpg

:beer:

:p

[PQJ]

Chapeau! (Not sure if there's an Italian translation/equivalent for that, which would be more appropriate, I admit.) :beer:

oh man where to start? I've been resisting this thread but finally had to weigh in and offer my thoughts. Before I get started let's just all agree that most of us are passionate one way or another, like Chevy vs. Ford, never to be converted, and therefore you could argue forever and some will never be convinced of the attributes that you may so clearly see from your opposing view. But you asked, so here goes.....

For me, it starts when I was 8yrs old and my best friend had a well weathered cycling cap he got from his dad, the kind with the Campagnolo script across the bill. It was olive drab and for a kid in no-where-ville Oklahoma, the mystique of the Italian brand, the curve of the script and the fact that it was virtualy unattainable to me (not like my LBS every had anything that cool) were all just overpowering. It was akin to seeing a Ferrari 250 racecar for the first time....it was changed my entire worldview. The funny thing is, for a while I didn't know if it they made bikes, sponsored teams or what, I just knew they were seriously hot sh*t in my book.

Then I became a cyclist and several things happened: in 80's mail order catalogs I saw things like Delta brakes and C-record gruppos and was blown away by their aesthetic and design. The prices shocked me, and they instantly become and object of desire. Then I saw things like the Campy Icons and learned about Tullio's long history of innovation and design. On top of cycling components they made wheels for iconic models of Ferrari, BMW, and Lambo....long my other passion.

I've ridden and raced every brand of groupset out there, but it's my long standing appreciation of the brand, the workmanship, design, and aesthetics and the passion of Campy that set Campy apart.

Are there lighter components? Sure.

Are there components that boast lots of innovation on their own merit? Of course.

For me there's only one Campy and it's something you either get or you don't. I could wax on about the ability to rebuild, and all of the other technical details covered ad nauseum by others, but that's not why I choose Campy.

I just feel Campy and choose something that I feel I share a similar passionate connection to. Shimano makes solid stuff....just not for me.

Plus who could argue with these?

[jpw]

Dude, you have to admit, that is hideous.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697867859&stc=1&d=1380080920

sometimes i see carbon weave, and the component's surface area can be so small that the weave looks way too big. perhaps Campagnolo should consider carbon with a uniform finish. i would accept that it is carbon - i don't need to see the weave as proof that it is.

[oldpotatoe]

Big deal. Both companies make stuff that isn't cycling-related.

Not anymore. Campagnolo divested itself in the late 80s and early 90s to concentrate on road bike stuff. No more no more aircraft landing gear forgings, etc.

[oldpotatoe]

The lever pressure is too light on Campy. Sram is too clicky. Shimano is also obviously more refined than both, and doesn't have that plastic-like feeling.

easier to get into a box for warranty also.

[Ahneida Ride]

Retroshift .....

[R2D2]

In the 70's it just rolled better and was easier to maintain than anything else.
The Nuevo Record and later the Super Record derailleurs shifted great in downtube friction mode.
Then came Suntour and Shimano and their advantage at the time was simply price.
They were well built and a lot cheaper.

Campagnolo still seemed to roll better but there where a lot of converts extolling how Shimano and Suntour were every bit as good for 1/2 the price.

Index shifiting changed everything. Campagnolo was aloof and played catch up for a long long time.

But they've caught up and Shimano has caught up on price.

It all works great now and cost about the same.
All of the major groups have a won the tour.
Just personal preference at this point.
I don't get or buy the "snob" argument.
I only encounter it from people that don't run Campagnolo and say I must be a snob because I do.
I ride it because I like it.
Have worked on it for years and never had any major issues.

[Mark McM]

In the 70's it just rolled better and was easier to maintain than anything else.
The Nuevo Record and later the Super Record derailleurs shifted great in downtube friction mode.
Then came Suntour and Shimano and their advantage at the time was simply price.

Not true. Nuovo Record derailleurs were well made, durable and rebuildable, but they really didn't shift all that well. Even before indexed shifting, Suntour (with their slant parallelogram) and Shimano (with their drop parallelogram and dual spring pivots) shifted much better.

Before indexed shifting, you could get by with a poorly shifting derailleur with some finesse on the shift lever - remember how you had to move the lever a bit too far to the get the chain to engage the new sprocket, and then move it back to re-center it on the new sprocket?. But when indexed shifting appeared, you could no longer hide a poorly performing derailleur.

[R2D2]

Not true. Nuovo Record derailleurs were well made, durable and rebuildable, but they really didn't shift all that well. Even before indexed shifting, Suntour (with their slant parallelogram) and Shimano (with their drop parallelogram and dual spring pivots) shifted much better.

Before indexed shifting, you could get by with a poorly shifting derailleur with some finesse on the shift lever - remember how you had to move the lever a bit too far to the get the chain to engage the new sprocket, and then move it back to re-center it on the new sprocket?. But when indexed shifting appeared, you could no longer hide a poorly performing derailleur.

Yea the overshift and drop back was easily learned.
They worked just fine.
But not for indexed shifting.

[Broid]

Yea the overshift and drop back was easily learned.
They worked just fine.
But not for indexed shifting.

I think you get used to what you ride, whatever your group is you adjust to it's characteristics. You can get on a bike with a different group and struggle to adapt even though it might be a "better" group. Used what you like, they are all good. But Campy has the mystique...

[jmpsmash]

The lever pressure is too light on Campy. Sram is too clicky. Shimano is also obviously more refined than both, and doesn't have that plastic-like feeling.

i agree with the ranking of clickiness.

it is more of a personal preference. i prefer the lighter crisp action of Campy. i had bikes with Shimano as well and I am ok with it. but at times i feel it is not crisp enough. i read that they have made it more crisp with the new DA11 but I have not tried it.

[amg]

I believe quality has gone down wrt the previous 10spd gruppos. Not the Camagnolo that it used to be IMHO. To me, the gold standard of recent years remains the all alloy Chorus of 2001 and carbon Record of 2003. I recently purchased a 2013 Chorus gruppo, but I believe this will be the last Campagnolo purchase for me, and this is coming from an Italian with a love of many things that are made in Italy.

Antonio

[jmpsmash]

I believe quality has gone down wrt the previous 10spd gruppos. Not the Camagnolo that it used to be IMHO. To me, the gold standard of recent years remains the all alloy Chorus of 2001 and carbon Record of 2003. I recently purchased a 2013 Chorus gruppo, but I believe this will be the last Campagnolo purchase for me, and this is coming from an Italian with a love of many things that are made in Italy.

Antonio

quite coincidentally my previous group was a 2001 Chorus 10 speed and this year i put together a new bike with 2013 Chorus 11 speed.

i do agree that 10 speed has a more solid feel. however, at the same time, i feel that 11 speed has a lighter crispier touch to it. i do think that the lighter touch feel more "fragile"

in the end, it might just boil down to personal preference and i use both setup regularly without much issues.

[soulspinner]

quite coincidentally my previous group was a 2001 Chorus 10 speed and this year i put together a new bike with 2013 Chorus 11 speed.

i do agree that 10 speed has a more solid feel. however, at the same time, i feel that 11 speed has a lighter crispier touch to it. i do think that the lighter touch feel more "fragile"

in the end, it might just boil down to personal preference and i use both setup regularly without much issues.

I have grown to prefer the 11 speed after initially feeling it was hollow sounding and lightweight feeling. Swithching bikes back and forth I have concluded the 11 is slightly better for audible and tactile feel than my 10 speed. It seems to shift faster too. Splitting hairs but........

[jpw]

do the thumb shifters get in the way when not shifting?

[thwart]

do the thumb shifters get in the way when not shifting?
Never been an issue for me. Not even close.

[christian]

do the thumb shifters get in the way when not shifting?In the way of what? Your thumbs? No. I don't notice them at all.

[jpw]

In the way of what? Your thumbs? No. I don't notice them at all.

yes,thumbs.

i remember the original ergo lever thumb buttons. horrible things, sticking right out, getting in the way all the time. calling them 'ergo' was a joke.

the new ones look different. the melted 'drop' look seems more svelte. i wish it was just a pressure sensitive button though, with several of them for different hand positions.

[mcteague]

And, there is the passion for the brand. Just look at the numbers on that other cycling website http://forums.roadbikereview.com/forum.php under the Manufacturer Forums section.

Campagnolo

Threads: 2,616
Posts: 20,608


Shimano

Threads: 616
Posts: 4,251


Tim

[tmf]

yes,thumbs.

i remember the original ergo lever thumb buttons. horrible things, sticking right out, getting in the way all the time. calling them 'ergo' was a joke.

the new ones look different. the melted 'drop' look seems more svelte. i wish it was just a pressure sensitive button though, with several of them for different hand positions.

If you're used to riding on other hood shapes (Shimano, SRAM) and the only place your hands are comfortable is with your thumbs exactly where the thumb levers are - then you might not like them as much. For myself, I shift my hand position around almost constantly and have a lot of ways I hold the bars, drops and hoods and the thumb levers aren't an issue at all. My thumbs are either 'in front/above' them or 'in back/below' them.

[jmpsmash]

do the thumb shifters get in the way when not shifting?

i have never had issues with them getting in the way.

i do admit that getting to the thumbshifter requires more arm movement in order to reach that location. eg. when i am in the drops, they are high up, and when i am on the hoods, they are slightly to the rear.

[jpw]

i have never had issues with them getting in the way.

i do admit that getting to the thumbshifter requires more arm movement in order to reach that location. eg. when i am in the drops, they are high up, and when i am on the hoods, they are slightly to the rear.

i will get my hands on these levers, but my at-a-distance impression is that changing gear at the thumb shifter doesn't look particularly ergonomic from the drops. i've love to see EPS with sprinter buttons for the drops, and satellite buttons on the tops. I've go Athena EPS without even thinking if that was the reality.

[happycampyer]

I find that if the bars are in the right place in terms of fit (reach and drop), the thumb levers are in the right place and are accessible in the drops. If the fit isn't right, they are probably harder to reach/shift than either Shimano and SRAM when in the drops.

I got a chance to ride briefly a bike with EPS (Tim Porter's Ottrott), and the thumb levers/controls are much easier to shift when in the hoods or in the drops than the mechanical shifters. They practically become an extension of your hand, so you barely have to move to shift—truly "ergo."

[Louis]

And, there is the passion for the brand.

You could say the same thing about the followers of Jim Jones or David Koresh.



Edit: I'm just teasing. In my experience Campy has not been better than Shimano (I have it on my De Rosa) but I can see why folks like it.

[AgilisMerlin]

So, why Campagnolo?


it is beyond words

[dancinkozmo]

You could say the same thing about the followers of Jim Jones or David Koresh.

i like the cut of your jib !!

[jpw]

I find that if the bars are in the right place in terms of fit (reach and drop), the thumb levers are in the right place and are accessible in the drops. If the fit isn't right, they are probably harder to reach/shift than either Shimano and SRAM when in the drops.

I got a chance to ride briefly a bike with EPS (Tim Porter's Ottrott), and the thumb levers/controls are much easier to shift when in the hoods or in the drops than the mechanical shifters. They practically become an extension of your hand, so you barely have to move to shift—truly "ergo."

stop tempting me :-)

[soulspinner]

Buy it, if you don't like it some retro grouch like me will buy it up and use it till Im in a carbon wheelchair............;)