Vermont Accident: DUI strikes again. How is your part of the country dealing with thi

[572cv]

On Sunday morning, at a local event called "Tour de Farms", with a few hundred riders, a drunk driver with license already suspended, passed out at the wheel, crossed the centerline and plowed into a group of cyclists.

http://www.wcax.com/story/23446628/police-driver-that-hit-cyclists-asleep-at-the-wheel

I've heard of options like interlock systems. I'd think that making such a thing mandatory for some level of DUI conviction might be useful. For example:

http://www.smartstartinc.com/

My question for the far flung members of this forum: Can you share any efforts being made in your area which have been effective in this regard?

Thanks

[azrider]

Sheriff Joe

[Benny Profane]

Damn. Sunday morning. I usually get real nervous on Friday evenings. I call it cerveza time. Sunday afternoons during football season are dodgy, too.

I was in the Rutland, Vt. hospital one time in the morning (the morning!) with a broken thumb from skiing, and had to wait as they dealt with some dirtbag next to me who just killed a mom and daughter in a DUI. Put life into perspective.

[tv_vt]

Really sorry to hear about this. Was at a meeting with some co-workers last week, and one woman was wearing a Tour de Farms t-shirt she got from last year's ride.

The only thing I can think of to prevent drunk drivers from doing more harm is some sort of in-car breathalyzer, that shuts down the car automatically if a drunk is behind the wheel. Would be nice if it dialed 911 automatically, too, and got an officer to show up. Dream on, though.

Hope the riders are OK.

TV

[azrider]

disgusting:

"He does have a pending DUI offense that he was on release conditions for, when this offense occurred. And he was also on arrest warrant status because he failed to appear," he said.

And the two pending DUI charges add on to a rap sheet that already has two prior DUI convictions in 1978 and 1985.

[Seramount]

one of my riding partners got nailed for DUI last year.

he pleaded out and got sentenced to a fine, counseling, and a 6-month period of having to use a breathalyzer interlock on his vehicle.

these penalties greatly reduced any inclination to drink and drive, but hasn't elimninated it completely.

since the interlock has been removed, he's driven home from bars at least twice when his BAC was probably over the limit.

[avalonracing]

I don't think any part of the country deals with DUI properly.
My rule would be: 1st offense: License revoked even if there was no accident.
Driving on suspended license after DUI: Jail time.

Btw- I watched the video. Quite the spiffy anchorman you have there.

[gone]

Here in Wisconsin, it's amazing how many times I read of arrests/accidents/fatalities involving someone with 5 DUI convictions. I recall about six months ago a woman who'd had two, hit and killed an 8 year old, did time for that, had another three then hit and killed someone else.

The DUI laws here are the epitome of weak.

[avalonracing]

one of my riding partners got nailed for DUI last year.

he pleaded out and got sentenced to a fine, counseling, and a 6-month period of having to use a breathalyzer interlock on his vehicle.

these penalties greatly reduced any inclination to drink and drive, but hasn't elimninated it completely.

since the interlock has been removed, he's driven home from bars at least twice when his BAC was probably over the limit.

I know pretty young woman in Maryland who got her second DUI in two years. Her second DUI was when driving motor scooter with a suspended license for the first offense. She got a good lawyer. "$300 fine... You are free to go"
Mindboggling.

[Vientomas]

I know pretty young woman in Maryland who got her second DUI in two years. Her second DUI was when driving motor scooter with a suspended license for the first offense. She got a good lawyer. "$300 fine... You are free to go"
Mindboggling.

Haven't you heard? Pretty people don't go to jail.

[Lewis Moon]

one of my riding partners got nailed for DUI last year.

he pleaded out and got sentenced to a fine, counseling, and a 6-month period of having to use a breathalyzer interlock on his vehicle.

these penalties greatly reduced any inclination to drink and drive, but hasn't elimninated it completely.

since the interlock has been removed, he's driven home from bars at least twice when his BAC was probably over the limit.

That, my friends, is the definition of addictive behavior.

[Fishbike]

Social drinking in this country remains very complex and often troubling. Putting alcoholism and addiction issues aside, we equate social drinking to excess with being cool, hip, funny, something essential to relax, something earned after a stressful day, etc. People of all ages joke longingly about getting drunk and often there are others egging them on. Adverstising of course reinforces the notion.

Until we as a society start to shun excessive drinking, people will always thinks it's no big deal to get behind the wheel while buzzed -- and very impaired.

[AngryScientist]

of course driving drunk has no excuse, but one very very real thing that would cut down on drunk driving greatly IMO is much better public transportation.

most of the country has a pathetically inadequate public transportation system. it is a thing of beauty to be able to go to the bar, have a dozen drinks, then fall asleep on the train ride home. nobody gets hurt.

[gone]

of course driving drunk has no excuse, but one very very real thing that would cut down on drunk driving greatly IMO is much better public transportation.

most of the country has a pathetically inadequate public transportation system. it is a thing of beauty to be able to go to the bar, have a dozen drinks, then fall asleep on the train ride home. nobody gets hurt.
Not here in the frozen north. Towns with populations of less than 100 have three taverns. No exaggeration. This is the rule, not the exception.

[Benny Profane]

Not here in the frozen north. Towns with populations of less than 100 have three taverns. No exaggeration. This is the rule, not the exception.

Ha. I heard a joke about your state the other day. A person announced that they had stopped drinking. The response from a Wisconsinite (?) was, "even beer"?

[#campyuserftw]

Hot issue and on-topic: let's legalize marijuana.

Not bad enough that drunk drivers cause enough pain to society, let's have people stoned, too. :rolleyes:

BAC, blood alcohol content
BWC, blood weed content
Vermont, New England and many parts of USA = It's too much of a story, too often.

[Tom]

Hot issue and on-topic: let's legalize marijuana.

Not bad enough that drunk drivers cause enough pain to society, let's have people stoned, too. :rolleyes:

BAC, blood alcohol content
BWC, blood weed content
Vermont, New England and many parts of USA = It's too much of a story, too often.

Reefer is a psychoactive. Alcohol is a depressant. Reefer makes you concentrate. Alcohol makes you blind. Two completely different effects.

Personally, I'd much rather a stoned driver coming up from behind than a drunk one. The only issue with reefer is that it doesn't make stupid people smart.

[mhespenheide]

At a certain point, after having prior convictions for DUI, hitting someone while DWI needs to get charged as "aggravated assault" or even "manslaughter" if it results in death.

But yes, I agree that better public transportation might help.

[PQJ]

Reefer is a psychoactive. Alcohol is a depressant. Reefer makes you concentrate. Alcohol makes you blind. Two completely different effects.

Personally, I'd much rather a stoned driver coming up from behind than a drunk one. The only issue with reefer is that it doesn't make stupid people smart.

Another thing: stoned people tend to drive slower and more carefully (or not at all if too far gone); drunk people tend to drive faster and more recklessly (and have more confidence in their abilities the drunker they are); no, they don't cancel each other out. High time to legalize one and ban the other?

[Louis]

drunk people tend to drive faster and more recklessly

This isn't always the case. Some drunks drive way slower than usual, and on Friday and Saturday nights (or any other time, but especially then) LEOs use this as a sign of a potential DUI.

[avalonracing]

Reefer is a psychoactive. Alcohol is a depressant. Reefer makes you concentrate. Alcohol makes you blind. Two completely different effects.

Yeah sure. Every person that I've ever seen stoned seems to be fully able to concentrate on the task at hand.

The issue is that the task might be air-guitaring to their favorite Phish jam when they are driving.

Weed will probably be legalized, and should be if alcohol is legal but I also say that we come down hard on people driving under the influence.

[jeffreng58]

Not in the city. Cyclists get plowed by sober drivers.

[#campyuserftw]

My nephew was learning Revolutionary War history. He told me, "All of the Green Mountain Boys from Vermont were drunk. They didn't really help us."

Nothing wrong with beer, but Vermont ought to look at things like this:

http://www.7dvt.com/2013no-1-nation-underage-drinking-vermont-has-long-range-problem

[Shortsocks]

Drunk driving is horrible.
What we need is people to stop texting and driving AT LEAST get off the phone.
A two ton vehicle going 45 down a road needs serious concentration.

I drive 3-4 miles below the posted speed limit. Which is 3-4 miles below the maximim alloted speed allowed for me to drive.

In north Dallas, people drive 10 miles over the speed limit at least..everywhere. I don't think people realize that the limit is the maximum speed one is supposed to go safely: if we can't even get people to not speed how are we supposed to get them to do anything? Seriously.

The mindset of a person who abuses alcohol and drives, is different than a rational person and won't listen to anyone. Unfortunately I've had a lot of friends, not friends anymore, who have DUI's. All of them drank and drove all the time prior to being caught. Then eventually got DUI's.
I'm sure there are some people that got a DUI after one odd night of drinking, but in my experience...I've seen DUI drivers have other issues than excessive driving and drinking.

I don't see this problem getthg any better. This society is completly entrapped in a drinking party culture. Seems binging rather than sipping is as a whole what rules now.

I wake up at 6 AM every Saturday and Sunday to go for a long ride with my favorite group. The last thing I would like to do after a night of drinking is actually get up ride. I much prefer ridng to drinking.

[bargainguy]

I like the way Finland deals with drunk drivers. Get caught driving drunk once, your license is revoked - for life.

[CunegoFan]

Vehicles should be forfeited when someone is caught for DUI. People love their cars. They would think twice about the risk of losing them. Give the auction proceeds to the police budget then the cops would have an incentive to catch people.

[Grant McLean]

Vehicles should be forfeited when someone is caught for DUI. People love their cars.

Along those lines, British Columbia is impounding cars for blowing under the limit
of being impaired, and it seems to have gotten people to drive less when
social drinking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQPvRlox_-c

I'm not sure the lifetime ban is the way to go. People will drink and drive,
not get caught, and think it's ok to get away with it, until maybe one day
when they get nailed, then they are in big dodo. It seems that's too
theoretical for some people.

What B.C. did was have a very public discussion, spurred on by the
fact they made it legal to take your car on the spot. That got people to
reconsider their behaviour around moderate social drinking. It's not the fear
of killing someone, but rather the more likely inconvenience of having your
car towed and impounded, and having to deal with that hassle, which acts as
a behaviour deterrent.

-g

[Idris Icabod]

Back in England at least now the penalty for drink driving is fairly severe, I think you would have your license removed for 2 years for the first offense. It was always understood at least within my family and friends that if you were the designated driver then you had nothing alcoholic.

Here in Tucson we are bombarded with lawyers specializing in drink driving defense. One pair advertise that they "wrote the book" and have a testimonial from a surgeon bragging about how they got him off the hook on 4 charges!!! Always seems to me the advert screams that the surgeon was guilty as hell but we got him off on some small technicality, of all people surely he has seen first hand the aftermath of some selfish a$$hole who can't forgo a nights drinking and plows some innocent people down, rather than brag about worming his way out maybe he should hang his head in shame.

[gone]

Vehicles should be forfeited when someone is caught for DUI. People love their cars. They would think twice about the risk of losing them. Give the auction proceeds to the police budget then the cops would have an incentive to catch people.

^^^^
This. Taking away a drivers license does absolutely no good at all, they just add driving without a license to the DUI.

[bargainguy]

Think this through for a moment.

Lose your DL for life, you are no longer able to legally purchase auto insurance, you are no longer able to legally register a car, etc., etc.

Sure, some folks will always circumvent the law in any way they can, and for those folks, you won't stop them. But you can sure make it tough.

[Benny Profane]

My nephew was learning Revolutionary War history. He told me, "All of the Green Mountain Boys from Vermont were drunk. They didn't really help us."

Nothing wrong with beer, but Vermont ought to look at things like this:

http://www.7dvt.com/2013no-1-nation-underage-drinking-vermont-has-long-range-problem

From the link, speculating why Vermont kids are budding alcoholics:

"The rural nature of the state, the high number of colleges and universities, and more liberal social views are some of the reasons experts and advocates note, but there is no clear answer. “We really don’t know why,” the health department’s Cimaglio admits."

I think I know why so many kids drink so much in that state. The ski industry is saturated in alcohol, and the ski industry is right down the road from where most young people live in Vermont. It not only supplies jobs for the working classes who aren't rich transplants (college kids, racer schools), but, a pretty cool night life, too. Awesome bars everywhere that rock, and a whole culture of partying that's hard to find outside of cool cities and summer resorts. It's pretty astounding to see how much some of these kids drink, and, they live in a culture where head bartender or snowboard shop manager is moving on up. There's not much else to do. And, for a long period within the year, it's dark and cold and snowy. Then, the black flies come out.........

[SirRanAlot]

I work with students at a top 15 party school who get DUI's and attempt to convince them to change their ways. Many of them say their friends don't see their DUI and charges as anything to consider when they go out drinking. It will never change as long as people can drink. You might be able to lesson the number of people who do it but after talking to these kids, it will never stop.

[zennmotion]

From the link, speculating why Vermont kids are budding alcoholics:

"The rural nature of the state, the high number of colleges and universities, and more liberal social views are some of the reasons experts and advocates note, but there is no clear answer. “We really don’t know why,” the health department’s Cimaglio admits."

I think I know why so many kids drink so much in that state. The ski industry is saturated in alcohol, and the ski industry is right down the road from where most young people live in Vermont. It not only supplies jobs for the working classes who aren't rich transplants (college kids, racer schools), but, a pretty cool night life, too. Awesome bars everywhere that rock, and a whole culture of partying that's hard to find outside of cool cities and summer resorts. It's pretty astounding to see how much some of these kids drink, and, they live in a culture where head bartender or snowboard shop manager is moving on up. There's not much else to do. And, for a long period within the year, it's dark and cold and snowy. Then, the black flies come out.........

I went to McGill U across the border in Montreal and we had kids driving into town from Plattsburg State and UVM drinking heavily every weekend- Montreal bars seldom asked for any ID- hayseeds out on the town in the Big Cite. As a public service my frat offered a free place to crash for any American kids to sleep it off before driving home- and across the border where they were sometimes detained. We gave out business cards with the House address to the most popular University bars and taverns downtown- the bartenders would hand them out, got 3-4 every month (the fact that we had a bar in the basement stocked with cheap Molson was an extra enticement, irony noted- but they stayed off the road until morning). I like to think we saved some lives, or at least police records from the US border officials.

[572cv]

So, I appreciate that its a long way back to the beginning of a three page thread, and I get that its easier to just focus on drinking problems observed in Vermont, but I'm interested enough in the original goal of the thread to try to bring it back up. Recall that two cyclists in VT were badly injured by a driver with multiple DUIs and a suspended license who was so drunk he passed out on a Sunday morning and plowed into them.

The thought I had was that people from around the third stone from the sun would be able to report on efforts made in their communities or states (or countries for those forumites overseas) which might have had some impact on driving and drinking being reduced. It is a safety issue for all of us.

A few comments on interlock devices. A few comments on seizure of vehicles. Anyone else have observations about laws or such that made a difference? I guess I think there are some insights to be had from this forum, if they can be had anywhere.

Thanks again.

[gemship]

I don't see this problem getthg any better. This society is completly entrapped in a drinking party culture. Seems binging rather than sipping is as a whole what rules now.

I wake up at 6 AM every Saturday and Sunday to go for a long ride with my favorite group. The last thing I would like to do after a night of drinking is actually get up ride. I much prefer ridng to drinking.

This brings up an interesting point about the alcohol companies and how they sell us on good deals. Buy more and get a better value. Hence the binge drinking which leads to alcoholism. Alcoholism can be a very grey area for many of the populace.

If people can't respect themselves and know their limits at least for the sake of getting a good nights sleep and having the good health the following day to engage in other more meaningful activities...so if can't respect themselves then surely they have no respect for others. It takes a community to make this world right but what message are the alcohol makers sending? I would almost make an analogy here between alcohol control/prohibition and gun control. Neither works but we all know all people can't be trusted to do the right thing on their own all the time.

[Frankwurst]

Well I've read through this and I think I'll go downstairs turn on the stereo,make a cocktail, roll a joint and work on a bike. Ain't going nowhere...just downstairs.:beer:

[MattTuck]

Well I've read through this and I think I'll go downstairs turn on the stereo,make a cocktail, roll a joint and work on a bike. Ain't going nowhere...just downstairs.:beer:

I've been informed by people in the know that joints are no longer used that much. The stuff is much stronger now than back in the days, and so a joint is both more than you need and also wasteful. In case you wanted to know :)

[bcm119]

Drunk driving is one of many risks on the road, as is texting drivers, tired drivers, distracted teens, angry/emotionally unstable drivers, etc. I've heard a DUI can end up costing you upwards of $10k all said and done; if that's not a deterrent I'm not sure what is. I think the bottom line is to be aware of the risk and do what you can to minimize it. People drink, it is human nature to seek intoxication. We've been doing it for thousands of years with various substances. In tough times, and especially now that getting by in this country requires a lot of stress on average, people turn to alcohol and weed to unwind. Best we can do is provide better public transit (and keep it running past last call) and help others make smart decisions when drinking out. There will always be self destructive people who endanger others.

[Peter P.]

"Drinking Responsibly" is an oxymoron.

[AngryScientist]

"Drinking Responsibly" is an oxymoron.

and why is that?

[SlackMan]

No second-offense DUI drivers have ever killed a cyclist in El Salvador; the same is true about third-offense DUI drivers in Bulgaria. See penalties across various countries. We don't take drunk driving seriously in this country.

http://webpages.charter.net/ricknet/duilaws.htm

[Gummee]

and why is that?I'm curious too.

M

[Seramount]

"Drinking Responsibly" is an oxymoron.

have a feeling you won't be able to support this comment with anything resembling a viable argument.

[avalonracing]

have a feeling you won't be able to support this comment with anything resembling a viable argument.

Okay, I'll play The Devil's Advocate and say it and annoy 99% of everyone on here: Because drinking is pretty lame. I've never met anyone who is smarter or more interesting after they have had a drink. I have never met anyone who is a better parent or friend after a drink. Sure it makes YOU feel good... So does cocaine.

Drinking is a billion dollar industry, that is almost a sacrament in this country, that kills many people and ruins lots lives, but hey if you can't deal with life without "getting your buzz on" I guess that's your issue... until you infringe on someone else's life.

-Someone who has seen a ····load of damage from alcoholism up close

[Benny Profane]

"I've never met anyone who is smarter or more interesting after they have had a drink."

I've met plenty of women who are prettier after I've had a drink. They've probably thought I was a lot more handsome and charming after their second drink, too.

[R2D2]

Okay, I'll play The Devil's Advocate and say it and annoy 99% of everyone on here: Because drinking is pretty lame. I've never met anyone who is smarter or more interesting after they have had a drink. I have never met anyone who is a better parent or friend after a drink. Sure it makes YOU feel good... So does cocaine.

Drinking is a billion dollar industry, that is almost a sacrament in this country, that kills many people and ruins lots lives, but hey if you can't deal with life without "getting your buzz on" I guess that's your issue... until you infringe on someone else's life.

-Someone who has seen a ····load of damage from alcoholism up close

Well I have a pint of home brew with dinner. I also enjoy a bottle of good wine with my wife over dinner at times. I don't think I'm infringing on someone else's life.

But to each his own.......

[Peter P.]

Okay, I'll play The Devil's Advocate ...

Thank you, avalonracing-that was my point but I doubt I would have said it better.

[#campyuserftw]

Okay, I'll play The Devil's Advocate and say it and annoy 99% of everyone on here: Because drinking is pretty lame. I've never met anyone who is smarter or more interesting after they have had a drink. I have never met anyone who is a better parent or friend after a drink. Sure it makes YOU feel good... So does cocaine.

Drinking is a billion dollar industry, that is almost a sacrament in this country, that kills many people and ruins lots lives, but hey if you can't deal with life without "getting your buzz on" I guess that's your issue... until you infringe on someone else's life.

-Someone who has seen a ····load of damage from alcoholism up close

+1, agreed with PeterP.

The above sentiment, devil's advocacy should exist. Words and meaning that should be said to young kids, teens in school, teens about to get a license, and...even adults who are all grown up.

I used to listen to a fellow cyclist rant about wearing helmets for safety, how important it was, and how those who didn't were idiots. That same person DWI'd dozens and dozens of times, that I knew of, in their life time. An idiot DWI's once, as alcohol has made their senses dull enough to think they're just fine. Someone with a serious drinking problem DWI's twice and some who does it habitually? Christ.

A glass of wine never made me smarter, better at anything, better looking, cool, or cooler. Cigarettes don't make anyone look anything but dumb. I have no issue with alcohol; it exists and all are free to imbibe, as Reverend Pale Rider would say.

Iago and Cassio remind us of what we know, and what those who DWI may not be forgiven to find out:

http://www.opensourceshakespeare.org/views/plays/play_view.php?WorkID=othello&Act=2&Scene=3&Scope=scene

:beer: <---filled with root beer

[Hawker]

I think there is probably some merit in having a mandatory interlock system installed (at the drivers expense) and only removed after five years without another DUI. Not a perfect solution perhaps but would probably save some lives.

[tch]

i think there is probably some merit in having a mandatory interlock system installed (at the drivers expense) and only removed after five years without another dui. Not a perfect solution perhaps but would probably save some lives.

+100

[cfox]

Okay, I'll play The Devil's Advocate and say it and annoy 99% of everyone on here: Because drinking is pretty lame. I've never met anyone who is smarter or more interesting after they have had a drink. I have never met anyone who is a better parent or friend after a drink. Sure it makes YOU feel good... So does cocaine.

Drinking is a billion dollar industry, that is almost a sacrament in this country, that kills many people and ruins lots lives, but hey if you can't deal with life without "getting your buzz on" I guess that's your issue... until you infringe on someone else's life.

-Someone who has seen a ····load of damage from alcoholism up close

Eating a pop-tart doesn't make you a better parent either. Just because something doesn't "improve" you doesn't automatically make it bad. A glass of wine is the only drug I know of that has health benefits if used in moderation. No amount of weed, nicotine, cocaine or meth is good for you. And yes, alcohol can be and is used in moderation all over the world. Any adult over 100 lbs. can drink a glass of wine with a meal and have zero intoxication. That's part of the reason it's legal and heroin is not. There are a number of everyday activities that are perfectly fine, but become destructive in the hands of an addictive personality.

p.s. I agree getting drunk is pretty lame

[avalonracing]

Eating a pop-tart doesn't make you a better parent either. Just because something doesn't "improve" you doesn't automatically make it bad. A glass of wine is the only drug I know of that has health benefits if used in moderation. No amount of weed, nicotine, cocaine or meth is good for you. And yes, alcohol can be and is used in moderation all over the world. Any adult over 100 lbs. can drink a glass of wine with a meal and have zero intoxication.

One question though:
It's 7PM. You are grabbing a quick ride, riding into the setting sun on a twisty, tree-lined road. Unbeknownst to you there is a large SUV coming up behind you. The driver is a 102 pound woman who met a few of her friends at the bar downstairs after work for a drink and a quick bite. She's feeling a bit tired but happy after a long day at work. Windows are open wide, she's cranking the radio and trying to ignore the texts that keep coming in from the friends that she just left at the bar. Would you prefer that she had a soda or a large, legal, glass of wine?

[cfox]

One question though:
It's 7PM. You are grabbing a quick ride, riding into the setting sun on a twisty, tree-lined road. Unbeknownst to you there is a large SUV coming up behind you. The driver is a 102 pound woman who met a few of her friends at the bar downstairs after work for a drink and a quick bite. She's feeling a bit tired but happy after a long day at work. Windows are open wide, she's cranking the radio and trying to ignore the texts that keep coming in from the friends that she just left at the bar. Would you prefer that she had a soda or a large, legal, glass of wine?

What's large? If she had a proper sized glass of wine, which is about 5 or 6 sips, and ate a meal with it, I honestly don't think it would make a difference. Your scenario sounds like a recipe for disaster regardless of beverage.