Tuscany?

[Benny Profane]

I know I'm asking about the French Alps in another thread, but, I'm going to Tuscany for my birthday around Thanksgiving. One purpose of this trip, other than eating fine food and looking at beautiful art and architecture and making my baby happy, is to research a possible month long stay there in the near future for riding and, well, all of the above, too. I will be staying in Florence and taking day trips on trains and buses to Lucca, Piza, and Siena, and then renting a car for a day, maybe two, to drive around to smaller villages.

My question is, where would I find good maps of rides to follow in the car, or, where are the good bike shops to talk to about this? Also, who are the better tour companies that may pass on some info to me, thinking of future business?
If I do go back, I want to stay in a sort of large town, like Siena or Lucca, for the non riding atmosphere. No way do I want to be in a villa in the country for a month.

btw, I don't plan on riding on this trip, but, should I maybe bring my shoes and helmet? Good rentals? How's the weather on Thanksgiving?

[noonan1970]

I rented from Florence By BIke 2 springs ago and it was awesome!!! I was a little nervous riding out of a city I was not familiar with and having the language barrier, but just 5-10 minutes out of Florence it was some beautiful riding and I felt very safe. The foothills were so much fun in all directions. The best was when I rode to San Giamano (sp?) and met my girlfriend and her mom there for a 2 night stay!!

[akelman]

Send a PM to echelon_john. I believe he has a place that he rents out in Tuscany. He's also a very good guy.

[Ken Robb]

Steve and Andy Hampsten have a place in Tuscany and they lead tours/rides there as well.

[scooter]

If you enjoy cycling travelogues, Bill McGann (founder of Torelli Cycles), has write-ups on his trips to Italy with his wife. Here's a link for Cycling in Tuscany: http://www.bikeraceinfo.com/travel/italy02/italy02.html

http://www.bikeraceinfo.com/images-all/travel-images/italy02-images/to-cortona.jpg


He provides some tips for travelling in Italy, too: http://www.bikeraceinfo.com/travel/Italy/travintro.html

[Louis]

Those roads look neat, but I'm guessing that 80 psi in the tires would be better than 100 psi.

[rrudoff]

We live just south of Firenze near Impruneta for several months a year, riding here is really quite fun, but there can be a lot of climbing which is great if you want it. Cars are surprisingly polite for the most part despite narrow roads, which is more than you can say for most Italian cyclists who tend to ride 2 abreast at all times.

A nice ride from Florence is to go south on the via Cassia through Tavarnuzze, through Passo di Pecorai, to Greve, and then up to Panzano. From there you can go back to Firenze a different way, on the Chiantigiana, or climb up to Impruneta from a number of places along the road and then down into Firenze.

Chianti Bike in Tavarnuzze also rents, though the selection is quite limited.

You really can't go wrong most any direction to be honest. The riding is also nice up above Fiesole in the Mugello.

I am flying back tomorrow to see the World Championships...

[Benny Profane]

If you enjoy cycling travelogues, Bill McGann (founder of Torelli Cycles), has write-ups on his trips to Italy with his wife. Here's a link for Cycling in Tuscany: http://www.bikeraceinfo.com/travel/italy02/italy02.html

http://www.bikeraceinfo.com/images-all/travel-images/italy02-images/to-cortona.jpg


He provides some tips for travelling in Italy, too: http://www.bikeraceinfo.com/travel/Italy/travintro.html


Thanks for that. Very informative and inspiring. And thanks to all others.

[velotel]

Sienna is terrific. Fine riding immediately outside of town, all kinds (though no mountains). Town jumps. The evenings are wonderful in the summer with seemingly everyone out wandering the streets, sitting and drinking outside bars and restaurants. Never seen so many gorgeous women, from young girls all the way up through the grandmother class. Good place. Lot of towns in Italy like that. Arrezo is another that jumps to mind. I think you'd want a car wherever you are. Too much to see, not enough time. Never enough time.

[velotel]

And just to make your life even more difficult, you might want to look into a month in the italian lake region, i.e. Lago di Magori and Lago di Como. The town at the end of the peninsula between the two legs could be especially interesting. Nearby is Milano, Bergamo, etc. The other direction the Alps. Every roads. Also lots and lots of traffic to be honest. Gorgeous place, wonderful climate, good people, great food, excellent cycling. Not sure I'd go there for a month but maybe, as said could be interesting.

[Benny Profane]

And just to make your life even more difficult, you might want to look into a month in the italian lake region, i.e. Lago di Magori and Lago di Como. The town at the end of the peninsula between the two legs could be especially interesting. Nearby is Milano, Bergamo, etc. The other direction the Alps. Every roads. Also lots and lots of traffic to be honest. Gorgeous place, wonderful climate, good people, great food, excellent cycling. Not sure I'd go there for a month but maybe, as said could be interesting.

Yeah, thanks, I know of Como. A very good friend who convinced me to buy a road bike and nursed me into mountains went there twice. Unfortunately, he died this Spring. I drooled over his photo album of the trips. His favorite saying about his second trip was that they only ate one meal inside. He did it first class, though. Can it be done affordably?

I still want to experience a quasi urban home base the first time. I like sitting in cafes and watching the parade. Sienna has that awesome square. And access to a bike friendly train would make life easier, too.

[93legendti]

It's been way too long, but what I recall of my 2000 trip to Tuscany with Breaking Away:

San Gimignano
Sienna
Pienza
Montalcino
Volterra

Were all very nice towns with great cycling.

If you fly into Milan, there was a great shop, Borga, that rented bikes.

[velotel]

Regarding your desire to be able to get around by train, that will be difficult if you also want to do the mountains, unless you go to Switzerland of course. France has lots of trains - don't know about Italy - but not in the mountains. What there are instead are buses, lots and lots of buses with huge luggage compartments underneath, most of the time empty. In France seems like damn near every village is linked in by bus and you can throw your bike in with no problem. Italy has lots of buses too but I know nothing about their system.

[Benny Profane]

No, I was thinking of trains just in Tuscany. The same friend who went to Como was in Florence for his wife's 50th, and they rented bikes downtown and took a train out to the country, bypassing the supposedly somewhat treacherous immediate in and out of that city. I wouldn't count on trains in the mountains. That's why I originally asked you about your car and rack in the other thread. But, to cover another option, is there a car for hire scheme in some of the mountain towns? You know, some sort of taxi like system? Hell, I'd ride in the back of a pickup truck if it got me 20 miles down the road to another ride.

[velotel]

Not too many pickups over here. Way more than there used to be but still I can go days without seeing one. Don't know about Italy (probably similar) but here in France bike clubs are ubiquitous. Start riding with a club and all kinds of doors will open up. I'm guessing you'd be more than welcome. Just need to find one that suits you. Wouldn't be hard.

Also if you're in an area like Grenoble where the anglo crowd is pretty big (or so I'm told, oddly enough outside of Maxn I've not met any, just my life style) and hooking up with them would open lots of doors too.

In the end I'd really have to say give Nice and environs a hard look. Everything you want is there. Lots and lots of rides from mountains to sea side. Take the train into Italy, ride, take the train back. There's even a train from Nice to Grenoble so you could get deep into the mountains for a couple of days of riding then return.

I never answered you on the car question, though Maxn did. I've got a Ford Tourneo Connect, a sort of panel van like a 1950's Ford panel van only with a back seat and windows all around. Peugeot, Renault, Citroen, Fiat, VW all make versions of that rig. Super popular. Lots of room in a small rig and low cost. I've had my son and two of his buddies (all big guys) and their bikes plus my bike inside in the back with only front wheels removed. I never carry the bike outside.

Oops, full moon over the summits. Gotta go. Gorgeous, floating behind clouds

[echelon_john]

Thinking of a longer-term stay like you describe, here are a few thoughts:

- If you feel like you'll need a car, explore "Peugeot Open Europe" as an alternative to renting. Renting, esp in Italy, is very expensive, with mandatory fees and taxes easily doubling the rate you see on the car companies' web sites. With the Peugeot, you're 'buying' a brand new car for a set period of time. This helps them, because they can then sell it in a way that enables the buyer dodge some of the 'new car' tax, and is great for you because it's a brand new car, the cost is VERY reasonable compared to renting, and they make some nice station wagons/crossovers that will fit a bike or two.

- Florence really isn't that big a deal to ride out of. Lucca even less so. You can go from inside the wall in Lucca to countryside in literally 5 minutes. If you want a city pied a terre, I'd recommend taking a good look at Lucca. Compact, but still a lot going on, convenient to both the sea and hills/mountains, and tons of great riding options from quite flat to big climbs. Check out the area to the northwest of Lucca; Camaiore, Gombitelli, etc. It's also pretty close to Pietrasanta, which is super trendy right now, but still a very beautiful town with some great art.

- I don't have any particular hookup for renting bikes; I've had friends come over and arranged bike rentals for them through Poli in Lucca. They rent crappy bikes that people get to ride around Lucca's wall and in town, but they also managed to pull together a couple of decent road bikes for my friends. If you're going to be there for a month+, I would think the economics and hassle of bringing your own bike might be worth it.

Give a shout if you have any more questions. Oh, and on this immediate trip to Florence, have lunch (not dinner) at the Cibreo cafe. You have to be there 1/2 hour early to get in line (no reservations) and it only fits maybe 30 people, but it's a great meal without the cost or impossible reservations involved with having dinner there. Of the probably six times I've been there for lunch, only once was it less than fantastic, and it was still pretty damn good.

Good luck,
JC

[velotel]

Your questions and desires have stirred up a bit of contemplating on my part with some interesting, to me, results. Like Grenoble, never thought about it before since I've got wheels but Grenoble is rather beautifully situated for riding and using the train, albeit you'd probably have some long hard days to meet schedules. But that said, there are a lot of big rides doable by train out of Grenoble. Like take the train up the Maurienne valley which takes you past the base of the Madeleine, Glandon, Croix de Fer, and of course the Galibier, not to mention all the wonderful 'small' rides available out of the valley also. You could also take the train up to Bourg St Maurice which means passing by still more great climbs. Get out at Albertville and choose your poison.

Or take the train south into the Trieve for fabulous riding, or even all the way to Nice. Or up to Geneva, or over to Lyon, or, well, you get the idea. Meanwhile there's a load of great rides right out of town. Not necessarily famous rides, at least in the states outside of people here on this forum. In terms of riding, you'd have it all. Just note that a lot of those outings might involve spending the night somewhere, which would be terrific actually.

For the night, Grenoble rocks. Good restaurants too. Lots of museums but I'm not an art guy so don't know if what they have is good or not. But I think so. All in all a good town. I've been living here (not in Grenoble but I look down on the city lights from my house) going on 20 years now and the more I'm here, the more I appreciate the place.

And by the way, regarding Nice, there are two Nices, the beach Nice with all the hotels and tourists and the old town which is lovely and feels small and comfortable. And lots of villages around.

Hopefully all this has just made your decision making process even more complicated! I mean a month or two in Italy or France and where and what to ride! That won't be easy.

Cheers

[Benny Profane]

Thinking of a longer-term stay like you describe, here are a few thoughts:

- If you feel like you'll need a car, explore "Peugeot Open Europe" as an alternative to renting. Renting, esp in Italy, is very expensive, with mandatory fees and taxes easily doubling the rate you see on the car companies' web sites. With the Peugeot, you're 'buying' a brand new car for a set period of time. This helps them, because they can then sell it in a way that enables the buyer dodge some of the 'new car' tax, and is great for you because it's a brand new car, the cost is VERY reasonable compared to renting, and they make some nice station wagons/crossovers that will fit a bike or two.

- Florence really isn't that big a deal to ride out of. Lucca even less so. You can go from inside the wall in Lucca to countryside in literally 5 minutes. If you want a city pied a terre, I'd recommend taking a good look at Lucca. Compact, but still a lot going on, convenient to both the sea and hills/mountains, and tons of great riding options from quite flat to big climbs. Check out the area to the northwest of Lucca; Camaiore, Gombitelli, etc. It's also pretty close to Pietrasanta, which is super trendy right now, but still a very beautiful town with some great art.

- I don't have any particular hookup for renting bikes; I've had friends come over and arranged bike rentals for them through Poli in Lucca. They rent crappy bikes that people get to ride around Lucca's wall and in town, but they also managed to pull together a couple of decent road bikes for my friends. If you're going to be there for a month+, I would think the economics and hassle of bringing your own bike might be worth it.

Give a shout if you have any more questions. Oh, and on this immediate trip to Florence, have lunch (not dinner) at the Cibreo cafe. You have to be there 1/2 hour early to get in line (no reservations) and it only fits maybe 30 people, but it's a great meal without the cost or impossible reservations involved with having dinner there. Of the probably six times I've been there for lunch, only once was it less than fantastic, and it was still pretty damn good.

Good luck,
JC


Thanks. Yeah, Lucca looks awesome. I hear some pro racers live there. I just watched a Rick Steve's Tuscany travelogue that made that little town look great. I'll be studying things closely when I'm there in the late fall. As you say, I like the variety of countryside and water, and, hey, if I want to get to Florence, it's a shortish train ride.

I'm definitely bringing my own bike for a month.

Cibreo. I'll be the ugly American first in line.