Lacing pattern for 20 hole Powertap hub

[jgspin]

I just got a 20 hole Powertap hub. According to Powertap it needs a minimum of 2x on the NDS. I was thinking of going 2x all the way. Is there a better, stronger, stiffer lacing pattern? Thanks.

[oldpotatoe]

I just got a 20 hole Powertap hub. According to Powertap it needs a minimum of 2x on the NDS. I was thinking of going 2x all the way. Is there a better, stronger, stiffer lacing pattern? Thanks.

Can't really use more crossings, shouldn't use less. Use 2 cross thruout-use 14-15-14 spokes and brass nipps.

[ryker]

+1

[mtnbkr]

You might be able to squeeze all heads in on the DS to help with the uneven tension. It'd be a small increase but every little bit helps. Make sure you're using a relatively still rim to begin with. If you're lacing to a deep carbon wheel, that limits your lacing too. What is your planned rim, and then you might be able to get more input. Campy or Shimano (10 or 11)? Shimano 10 has enough space for the heads in lacing. Also what's the rider weight?

[oldpotatoe]

You might be able to squeeze all heads in on the DS to help with the uneven tension. It'd be a small increase but every little bit helps. Make sure you're using a relatively still rim to begin with. If you're lacing to a deep carbon wheel, that limits your lacing too. What is your planned rim, and then you might be able to get more input. Campy or Shimano (10 or 11)? Shimano 10 has enough space for the heads in lacing. Also what's the rider weight?

All 'heads-in' makes for some really severe bends at the hub flange on some spokes. Does nothing for tension. For a 20 hole rear wheel, I wouldn't recommend it. Lacings are determined by the hub, spoke number, flange diameter.

[mtnbkr]

All 'heads-in' makes for some really severe bends at the hub flange on some spokes. Does nothing for tension. For a 20 hole rear wheel, I wouldn't recommend it. Lacings are determined by the hub, spoke number, flange diameter.

I don't claim to be an expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Anyways, I was told this from I don't know, the internet to be honest from people I believe to be reputable wheel builders. The claim was it pushes out the effective DS flange distance and therefore provides that much more even tension relative to the NDS. Please educate me if I'm wrong. I would agree it increases the bend on the flange but I would think the person's logic on the DS flange distance makes sense.

[Mark McM]

I don't claim to be an expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Anyways, I was told this from I don't know, the internet to be honest from people I believe to be reputable wheel builders. The claim was it pushes out the effective DS flange distance and therefore provides that much more even tension relative to the NDS. Please educate me if I'm wrong. I would agree it increases the bend on the flange but I would think the person's logic on the DS flange distance makes sense.

It is true that lacing all heads in moves the effective flange offset outward. Whether it also creates severe bends in the spokes at the flange depends on the number of spokes, number of crossings, and also can be effected by the flange diameter. For 1-cross pattern, it actually creates a less severe bend in the spoke. But for more than one cross, the severity of the bend will depend on the spoke angle. A 20 spoke 2 cross pattern will have a 72 degree spoke angle, so adjacent spokes will cross very close to the flange, and will result in a severe bend in the spoke.

[jgspin]

I used dt revolutions and 2x all around on a Kinlin xr200. It came in at 820g without tape about 300g less than my wired one. After a few rides I'm quite happy with it and my bike is less cluttered without the wires and zip ties. Also liking the freehub sound when coasting as I can alert riders as I come up; my wired one was quiet. Only downside/upside is I am wanting a garmin or a joule so I can download my rides.

[ergott]

I used dt revolutions and 2x all around on a Kinlin xr200. It came in at 820g without tape about 300g less than my wired one. After a few rides I'm quite happy with it and my bike is less cluttered without the wires and zip ties. Also liking the freehub sound when coasting as I can alert riders as I come up; my wired one was quiet. Only downside/upside is I am wanting a garmin or a joule so I can download my rides.

What do you weigh and what kind of power numbers are you pushing? That's a very lightweight build, one I wouldn't recommend for most riders.

[jgspin]

I'm 127 lb currently and hopefully about 123 in a couple of months. I'd like to say my FTP is 150 W but it's probably lower. On any given ride my max doesn't go over 430 and only for about 10 seconds. My best 10 mins on a climb was about 210 W. Is this wheel still ok for me?

[oldpotatoe]

What do you weigh and what kind of power numbers are you pushing? That's a very lightweight build, one I wouldn't recommend for most riders.

And personally, not even for a guy at a buck-twenty-seven. Using 14-15 on the RH side would have added about as much weight as 1/4 of a power bar if that...but that's me being curmuggenly I guess.

3 strikes and you are...383 gram rim, only 20 spokes, thin spokes....

IMHO

[jgspin]

I've been riding my wired 32 hole Powertap laced with 20 spokes; over 13k miles last two years. 3 crashes due to operator error not equipment failure. 1) What's the worst thing that could happen to my new powertap wheel with its current lacing? 2) What's the most likely failure that could happen with its current lacing?

[wallymann]

thread drift: how does that lacing pattern work?

I've been riding my wired 32 hole Powertap laced with 20 spokes; over 13k miles last two years. 3 crashes due to operator error not equipment failure. 1) What's the worst thing that could happen to my new powertap wheel with its current lacing? 2) What's the most likely failure that could happen with its current lacing?

[ergott]

I've been riding my wired 32 hole Powertap laced with 20 spokes; over 13k miles last two years. 3 crashes due to operator error not equipment failure. 1) What's the worst thing that could happen to my new powertap wheel with its current lacing? 2) What's the most likely failure that could happen with its current lacing?

Without knowing the particulars I asked for above I can't tell you much.

[jgspin]

Without knowing the particulars I asked for above I can't tell you much.

I thought I already answered that question. On any given ride my average wattage is around 120 W with a few max 430 W surges for maybe 10 seconds each. I could hold 200 W for 10 mins on a climb. My new wireless 20 hole powertap is laced with 20 spokes, dt revolutions, 2x all around.

[jgspin]

thread drift: how does that lacing pattern work?

Sorry I sold my old Powertap before I saw this post. If I remember correctly it was a crowsfoot pattern on the NDS and 2 cross on the DS. I have to look for the drawing I made and post if I find it. I actually asked for advice on that pattern on another board before I put it together.

[oldpotatoe]

Sorry I sold my old Powertap before I saw this post. If I remember correctly it was a crowsfoot pattern on the NDS and 2 cross on the DS. I have to look for the drawing I made and post if I find it. I actually asked for advice on that pattern on another board before I put it together.

crow's foot is groupings of 3...12, 18, 9...I'd love to see the drawing.

[ergott]

I thought I already answered that question. On any given ride my average wattage is around 120 W with a few max 430 W surges for maybe 10 seconds each. I could hold 200 W for 10 mins on a climb. My new wireless 20 hole powertap is laced with 20 spokes, dt revolutions, 2x all around.

Sorry, missed the other one.

If you don't notice any excessive flex I think it will be okay. I personally don't think it's stiff enough to give you a good handling wheel. At best I would only use that rim in 20h for a rider. That's my opinion. If you like the ride and it holds up for you far be it from me to tell you otherwise. I don't have to warranty it.

[jgspin]

crow's foot is groupings of 3...12, 18, 9...I'd love to see the drawing.

Here is a link to a post re 20 spoke into a 32 hole Powertap. Scroll down to the bottom for the post from RRUFF. He's the same guy that advised me on my 20 spoke pattern. His drawing looks like my drawing I posted on the same board. I haven't been on this board in a while and I can't remember my login and haven't really searched it but it's there somewhere.

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25137&start=15

[jgspin]

Sorry, missed the other one.

If you don't notice any excessive flex I think it will be okay. I personally don't think it's stiff enough to give you a good handling wheel. At best I would only use that rim in 20h for a rider. That's my opinion. If you like the ride and it holds up for you far be it from me to tell you otherwise. I don't have to warranty it.

I've ridden it close to 500 miles on it and it's holding up ok. I don't feel any flex at all and as am not a sprinter I don't really put a lot of torque when I stomp on the pedals. Those 400W+ surges only come up cause I'm already spinning fast when I put down the power and only for a few seconds at best.

[oldpotatoe]

Here is a link to a post re 20 spoke into a 32 hole Powertap. Scroll down to the bottom for the post from RRUFF. He's the same guy that advised me on my 20 spoke pattern. His drawing looks like my drawing I posted on the same board. I haven't been on this board in a while and I can't remember my login and haven't really searched it but it's there somewhere.

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25137&start=15
see this but I still don't see how you can do a triplett lacing on one side with either 16 spokes or 10s spokes, but I was a business major...lessee...16 divided by 3...10 divided by 3....unless this is one side..10 spokes, then opposite side of wheel......hate to calculate spoke length..

think I'll stick to 32 3 cross and 20 2 cross...

[Mark McM]

see this but I still don't see how you can do a triplett lacing on one side with either 16 spokes or 10s spokes, but I was a business major...lessee...16 divided by 3...10 divided by 3....unless this is one side..10 spokes, then opposite side of wheel......hate to calculate spoke length..

think I'll stick to 32 3 cross and 20 2 cross...

A business major who can't do simple math? No wonder the financial industry broke the economy.

A 32 spoke hub has 16 spoke holes on each flange. On the right side, spokes are laced in groups of 3 (one spoke leading, one spoke trailing, and one spoke radial), with every 4th spoke hole skipped, for a total of 12 out of 16 spoke holes used. On the left side every other spoke hole is laced (alternating leading and trailing), so 8 out of 16 spokes holes are used. 3 different spoke lengths must be used for this pattern.

Advantages? Other than being able to mix a 20 spoke rim with a 32 spoke hub, it will produce a smaller right/left tension differential than traditional lacing (but not as small a differential as with triplet lacing). Disadvantages include a higher chance of spoke flange failure (due the radial spokes), a need to use a stiffer rim due to the larger gaps between the left flanges. Possibly the largest disadvantage is a wider lateral 'bulge' where the 3 spokes intersect at a single point, increasing the chance of derailleur cage rubbing the spokes. So, potentially more disadvantages to advantages.