I Need Your Advise. Dirt Road Bike.

[mike p]

Well, I just got in line for a dirt road bike from a great builder. ·We've got miles and miles of seasonal roads, dirt roads and jeep trails in my area. I've ridden them for years on a regular road bike with 23's and 25's and while doable I just feel it'd be great to have a dedicated DRB.
This build will have much more road bike geometry than cross or mtb. It will be steel with a level tt and won't have any kind of disk brakes. ·Other than that nothing is in stone.....wheels, brakes, tire size and all the other little details. That's where your advice comes in. ·Help me out with tire size? I can't envision needing room for more than 35's. Brakes... I dislike canti's but not totally closed to them. ·Wheels? Ideally I'll have two pair, one mounted with wide tires, one mounted with RR tires. Fenders or not? Cable routing....road or CX?·
If you've already built a DRB what would you change or do different? What do you love about yours. Thanks in advance for any advice.

Mike

[cinema]

45s. velocity a23s. almost the best time you can have on a 'road' bike.

[vqdriver]

i'm in a queue for the same thing. tho for me it's more of a fat tire road bike than any type of real dirt road bike. the big question for me is brakes as well. there doesn't seem to be much that appeals to me on the canti/mini-v front. so i've narrowed it down to either long reach calipers or pauls racers. probably long reach, something like the new trp 957.

as for tire size, that's kind of the fun part, getting to try out new sizes and treads. with/without fenders.

re the build, i'm leaving all the geo and such to the builder. but re braze ons, i definitely want to option for proper fenders and probably a dedicated mount for a rear light since i never take it off anyway.

[zetroc]

I have fender brazeons on my hampsten strada bianca - the fenders are usually off, but it's great having the option. the fork is a wound up with eyelets and a bit longer reach than normal, and it fits fenders very easily with 28s.

re: brakes, there are slim pickings in this arena - most of the longer reach brakes are at a lower price point and often don't stop so well. i've got shimanos and they work fine. I do really like the post mount Paul Racer Mediums if you don't mind having the bike made specifically for them - excellent stopping power. TRP and VO are two of the other popular options.

cable routing - either road or cx style is fine in practice. 28mm tires are great, and anything fatter is gravy.

make sure to post photos when it's done!

[mike p]

My thoughts exactly on the brakes. I'm also leaving geometry to builder, I'm just letting him know how I want it to handle.

Mike

"there doesn't seem to be much that appeals to me on the canti/mini-v front. so i've narrowed it down to either long reach calipers or pauls racers. probably long reach, something like the new trp 957."

[sparky33]

Fenders or not? Cable routing....road or CX?·
If you've already built a DRB what would you change or do different? What do you love about yours. Thanks in advance for any advice.

Mike

road cable routing - it's easier, less fussy, used sealed cables to keep out the dirt. save the cx cable routing for the really muddy cross racing.

tires - it's all relative. If you ride these roads on 25s, then 33s will feel amazing but not cumbersome. Larger than 35s and you start compromising in other areas.

whosthebuilder?

[mike p]

"whosthebuilder?". Geekhouse.

Mike

[fogrider]

I've noticed a fair number of paul canti brakes up for sale on CL. mini Vs on the cross work really well and I love how simple they are.

[AngryScientist]

"whosthebuilder?". Geekhouse.

Mike

geekhouse dirt road bike?? hey, i've got one of those. mine is perfect. let me know if you want any specifics.

http://i771.photobucket.com/albums/xx354/2_Wheels/dirtphalt_2013/IMG_0531.jpg

[mike p]

Thanks Nick, yours looks fantastic!

Mike

[vqdriver]

Lol. Must be flavor of the day. I'm in the same queue.

[PJN]

Cantis suck. So do disks. 47-57mm reach side pulls fit pleanty of tire and actually work.

If you need anything bigger than a 35 you're doing it wrong or should be on a mountain bike.

Fender mounts.

Road cable routing.

Pretty standard geo to what you like in a road bike too. Little longer stays and a little lower bb. No need to slack the angles out and make it steer slow/dumb.

This isn't that hard. Just a road bike that fits a little more rubber is the best tool for the job.

[krhea]

A forum member suggested the Tektro 926AL mini linear to me a year or more ago for cross and it's a great brake. So great in fact I just installed them on a tandem and have a set setting here waiting for my gravel build. I have to say, they're one of the least expensive/best performing components I've ever purchased. I've found for as little as $35 a pair. The only thing I've upgraded for the tandem were the brake pads, other then that they're perfect. I've run them with Campy both brake and ergo levers, Shimano and Cane Creek levers.

Here's a few users comments: http://forums.mtbr.com/cyclocross/lovin-tektro-926al-mini-v-brakes-735727.html


KRhea

[sokyroadie]

I too, am having the same type frame built (Quiring KVA Stainless) I have decided to go with LR road brakes (Tektro) as I hate canti's and don't like mini-V's.

I am still deciding on the fork as I prefer carbon to steel - it will be the wound-up LR (33 Jack Brown's w/o fenders supposedly fit) or the Co-Motion LR.

Good luck!

Jeff

[tuscanyswe]

geekhouse dirt road bike?? hey, i've got one of those. mine is perfect. let me know if you want any specifics.

http://i771.photobucket.com/albums/xx354/2_Wheels/dirtphalt_2013/IMG_0531.jpg


Nice bike and scenery! Makes me want to ride a bike!

[seat_boy]

I think tire size should really be dictated by what types of dirt roads you plan on riding. Super smooth, like pictured above, or washboards and rocks? Anyway, I don't see much downside to being able to fit, say, a Bruce Gordon Rock n' Road tire with a fender someday, so I would go for lots of clearance.

[Peter P.]

I'm surprised at the number of people who don't like cantilever brakes. I used them for years on my mountain bike and had plenty of force and modulation. I'm wondering if the problem is the lack of a compatible brake lever, particularly if using integrated shifters? The other problem with cantilever brakes and road bikes will be brake shudder/squeal on the front. For that reason alone, I'd go with V-brakes on your dirt road bike.

Mini-V brakes match better with the lever pull ratios of integrated shifter/brake levers. You can also add a Travel Agent to mini-V's or regular V-brakes to increase that ratio if needed. I prefer V-brakes over caliper brakes because they open up wider to clear fat tires easier. A long reach caliper brake may not clear some of the fatter tires when using the built-in quick release to remove a wheel, so check with others experienced with this before you buy. Also, My experience with dual pivot side pull brakes and fenders is if the fender has to be mounted close to the caliper arms, when you actuate the front brake either pushes the fender off center or you have to mount the fender off-center at the brake caliper so when you actuate it, the fender will not rub on the tire.

Definitely get fender and rack mounts. Every cyclist should have a bike that is fender capable, for those iffy days. The first time fenders keep your butt dry and your bike clean, you WILL smile.

As someone else said, if you want a road bike to fit wider than 35mm tires, you should get a mountain bike instead. If you don't agree with that, consider to currently popular "monster 'cross" style bike which can fit tires as wide as the Bruce Gordon Rock 'n Road, which measures out at 43mm.

As for geometry, I'm sure most any builder can get it right but you'll have to specify what the largest tire size you'll use will be, as well as chainrings, so the builder can put in the proper clearances. Don't forget a frame fit pump mount.

Don't forget to post pics when it's built!

[mike p]

Good points all. I really can't see a need for anything larger than 35's. ·As a true roadie whenever I see 35's they look absolutely huge!
I think much of the resistance to canti's is getting them properly adjusted. Everyone that's ever been in a line of mtb's knows the annoying ·sound of canti's not perfectly adjusted. ·I know this may be just me but on a road bike canti's just look a little off. I know I know that's just me.
Peter good point on the pump peg!·

Mike·

[lovebird]

+1 on ditching the cantis, although I've found that if you use a fork mounted cable stop, you can reduce much or all of the shuddering and a good portion of the squealing.

I'm solidly in the mini-V camp. I'm running Paul minimotos and they have been absolutely fantastic in every respect, as soon as I swapped out the thinline brake pads/shoes and replaced them with Kool Stop linear pads: http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=31465&category=34. I'll never go back to cantis - in fact I almost want to saw the rear cable hanger off the frame :)

BTW, I have another bike with Paul long reach Racers (on brazed posts). They're nice brakes, but really require a very stiff brake housing and cable hanger to get all you can out of them. I think I'd give the edge to the minimotos, especially for power. Modulation is about equal when set up right I've found.

Best of luck with you new gravel rig!

[mike p]

Question....has anyone ever seen a Yo Eddy style fork with LR sidepull brakes? Is it possible? Any pic's

Mike

[choke]

On my recent DRB I went with post mount Paul Racer M brakes. I really like them and feel that they work great. If my choice was only long-reach sidepulls or cantis I'd pick the latter - none of the sidepulls appeal to me visually and I've never had a problem with cantis. I hate V-brakes so there's no way they would be an option.

I have fender and rack mounts - I doubt I'll use either but it's better to have them than not IMO.

I have two sets of wheels so I can switch between smooth and CX tires.

Cable routing is standard road style.


If I'd have done anything different I think I would have contemplated going with 650b wheels. I guess I just like fat tires and sometimes I'd like more than a 35.

[tch]

Definitely get fender and rack mounts. Every cyclist should have a bike that is fender capable, for those iffy days. The first time fenders keep your butt dry and your bike clean, you WILL smile.
!

+100.

I have no idea what kind of limited-vision snob would be opposed to having fenders on a bike. Ride 5 minutes in a cloudburst and you will never trade fenders for a wet butt or wet feet again.

[mike p]

Do you keep fenders on all the time? How much of a hassle taking them on and off? I've never had a fendered bike but it looks like a pain and more than a five min. job. ·Reason for asking....fenders would be a nuisance on a lot of my dirt road rides ( sticks, gravel, and other small stuff to get caught). So probably 80% of the time it would be unfendered.

Mike

I have no idea what kind of limited-vision snob would be opposed to having fenders on a bike. Ride 5 minutes in a cloudburst and you will never trade fenders for a wet butt or wet feet again.[/QUOTE]

[tch]

Do you keep fenders on all the time? How much of a hassle taking them on and off? I've never had a fendered bike but it looks like a pain and more than a five min. job. ·Reason for asking....fenders would be a nuisance on a lot of my dirt road rides ( sticks, gravel, and other small stuff to get caught). So probably 80% of the time it would be unfendered.

Mike

I used to put 'em on and take 'em off...but, as you say, it's a pain. I just left them on. I never found it to be the pain that you suggest myself...but maybe I wasn't riding in rough enough territory :).

Truly, I never got anything "caught". Sometimes, the gravel would kick up and make noise, but i got used to it. But only you know if you will be riding much in the rain/wet whatever. And, what proportion of your rides will be gravel/dirt. I ride 60/40 pavement/dirt, so the kicked-up stuff was not so much. I'd always want to have the flexibility to have fenders...but if you will never or rarely ride in inclement conditions and 100% on rough roads, you might not use them as much.

[seat_boy]

The first time installing fenders is a pain, but after that, they're pretty easy to get on and off: typically three bolts up front, four in the rear.

That being said, I leave mine all the time.

Do you keep fenders on all the time? How much of a hassle taking them on and off? I've never had a fendered bike but it looks like a pain and more than a five min. job. ·Reason for asking....fenders would be a nuisance on a lot of my dirt road rides ( sticks, gravel, and other small stuff to get caught). So probably 80% of the time it would be unfendered.

Mike

I have no idea what kind of limited-vision snob would be opposed to having fenders on a bike. Ride 5 minutes in a cloudburst and you will never trade fenders for a wet butt or wet feet again.[/QUOTE]

[mike p]

While I never had a real fendered bike I did have a bike set up with crud cutters, crud racer? Some cheap plastic fenders for bikes without eyelets and proper clearances. I was forever getting all kinds of crap caught in between fender and tires. Finally caught something that snapped half the front fender off.
That being said I can see no good reason not to get it set up for fenders even if they're rarely used.

Mike

[Climb01742]

I know it's a personal thing but when I had a full fendered bike, I hated having fenders on on nice days. Loved 'em on crappy days, but man, it got so I never rode it on sunny days. Eventually sold it. Sigh.

[sparky33]

I stick to paved roads on really rainy days, so the dirt road bike doesn't need fenders. That's maybe the one thing I would leave off my DRB if I did another one. Besides a minimal bike looks the business. Personal preference...

[Frankwurst]

Had mine built 650b, cantis and put Hetres tires on it and never looked back. I wouldn't change a thing. It could stand a more powerful engine though. :beer:

[rando]

I have ridden an unfendered 27" to 700c converted steel bike shod with 23s, that have a small amount of tread, through many Northern Winters. That hybrid/CX bike middle ground has never appealed to me because of the massive improvements in road construction and maintenance during the last two centuries. As other noted a mtb is more than ample from washboard fire roads through stuff that doesn't appear passable.

Finally got convinced to try a a steel road geo frame that will fit 35's alone and a bit smaller with fenders. Going to park the carbon for awhile and keep the bigger tires until weather forces the fenders on. So far I'm liking the softer ride without giving up quick handling. Fast group rides on gravel and Winter performance are going to be the real tests of how long I mull over this flavor of Kool-Aid.

[PaMtbRider]

I just finished a 100k ride in Northern Virginia on mostly gravel roads today. Glad I had 35c tires. Lots of washboard and loose gravel. As far as brakes are concerned I am a big fan of the Paul Racer M. I have another bike setup with Shimano sidepulls. The Shimano's offer good braking power and modulation and do have clearance for a 35c tire. The problem with them is getting them to open far enough to get a cyclocross tire in and out without deflating the tire. I am using campy levers so I have the release at the lever, and the caliper, and it is still a pain. The Racer M is so easy to detatch the straddle cable and they open far enough to easily mount a 35c tire. Plenty of power and modulation. I won't own another bike with cantilever brakes. Discs are the future, but I think they still have a few growing pains to overcome.

[mike p]

PaMtbRider, are your paul racers mounted on brazed studs or with the center bolt? I've wondered if there's a performance difference between the two?

Mike

QUOTE=PaMtbRider;1418948]I just finished a 100k ride in Northern Virginia on mostly gravel roads today. Glad I had 35c tires. Lots of washboard and loose gravel. As far as brakes are concerned I am a big fan of the Paul Racer M. I have another bike setup with Shimano sidepulls. The Shimano's offer good braking power and modulation and do have clearance for a 35c tire. The problem with them is getting them to open far enough to get a cyclocross tire in and out without deflating the tire. I am using campy levers so I have the release at the lever, and the caliper, and it is still a pain. The Racer M is so easy to detatch the straddle cable and they open far enough to easily mount a 35c tire. Plenty of power and modulation. I won't own another bike with cantilever brakes. Discs are the future, but I think they still have a few growing pains to overcome.[/QUOTE]

[Michael_S]

I'm in the 650B camp. Set it up for 650B and run Hetres. Fast as any 32mm 700C tires on pavement and the extra volume is great in the dirt.
The Paul Racer will fit over them without any removal issues. And get the brazed on version... best rim brake on the market.

[choke]

PaMtbRider, are your paul racers mounted on brazed studs or with the center bolt? I've wondered if there's a performance difference between the two? According to Paul (http://www.paulcomp.com/support/centerpull_brakes.html#brazeon) - "Both the Racer and Racer Medium benefit from Braze-On mounting by being stiffer, lighter, and simpler."

[jpw]

Truly, I never got anything "caught". Sometimes, the gravel would kick up and make noise, but i got used to it. But only you know if you will be riding much in the rain/wet whatever. And, what proportion of your rides will be gravel/dirt. I ride 60/40 pavement/dirt, so the kicked-up stuff was not so much. I'd always want to have the flexibility to have fenders...but if you will never or rarely ride in inclement conditions and 100% on rough roads, you might not use them as much.

Fenders - small piece of a fallen tree branch got sucked up the back of my front fender earlier this year. it locked out the front wheel instantly. The fender was sucked up to the back of the fork and shattered, and the fender stays pulled up and in between the fork crown. I was launched through the air. Unpleasant. I don't like fenders. I'd rather wear appropriate clothing and wash it after a ride.

[PaMtbRider]

PaMtbRider, are your paul racers mounted on brazed studs or with the center bolt? I've wondered if there's a performance difference between the two?


Mike,

Mine are the center mount type. They replaced a set of Tektro sidepull calipers that came on the bike. I don't know if there is a performance difference between the post or center mount versions. I've heard that the post mount are slightly lighter.

[Peter P.]

Very rarely do my fenders get something stuck underneath them. Zefal/SKS fenders are designed with a breakaway mount for the front fender so that if something were to roll with the tire into the fender, the fender stays would pop out of the mount.

The rear fender has no such attachment. Both the front and rear fender stays are steel so they'll certainly last a long time. I keep my fenders on the bike full time with no complaints.

[mike p]

Thanks all for the help and advice. What a great place!
I'll definitely post pic's, but it's going to be awhile.

Thanks again
Mike

[zennmotion]

Thanks all for the help and advice. What a great place!
I'll definitely post pic's, but it's going to be awhile.

Thanks again
Mike

Some of the best roads less traveled are accessible only by airplane. I'm glad my fat tire roadie is coupled, worth the extra expense. Disc brake bikes don't go with couplers that easily, just sayin'...

[jpw]

Some of the best roads less traveled are accessible only by airplane. I'm glad my fat tire roadie is coupled, worth the extra expense. Disc brake bikes don't go with couplers that easily, just sayin'...

what tire size is 'fat' for you?

[SirRanAlot]

I'm just going put in a quick plug for my Cane Creek SCX-5 brakes. I love them on my cross bike. I've never had trouble with them in water and mud.

[vqdriver]

Question....has anyone ever seen a Yo Eddy style fork with LR sidepull brakes? Is it possible? Any pic's

Mike

Just got this link from Marty. Apparently all his pictures have a rack in front.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/geekhousebikes/sets/72157632844682827/

[mike p]

Thanks much vqdriver. Just what I was looking for!

Mike