Boston Police Department ticketing cyclists

[druptight]

http://boston.com/metrodesk/2013/09/13/cyclists-cited-safety-and-enforcement-operation-boston/KEq3m6bW6p7C0rHlg2QZnJ/story.html
Forty cyclists were cited for infractions, including red light violations, illegal turns, and not signaling, when police conducted a bicycle safety and enforcement operation near Commonwealth and Massachusetts avenues.

Boston, Brookline, State, Transit and Boston University police staked out the area at 8 a.m. Thursday.

Police chose the location due to its history of bicycle collisions and other incidents.

Police also conducted an operation along Commonwealth Avenue at 4 p.m. Results of that operation were not yet available, police said.

During the two operations, police also gave riders dozens of free helmets and bicycle lights donated by the university.

- See more at: http://boston.com/metrodesk/2013/09/13/cyclists-cited-safety-and-enforcement-operation-boston/KEq3m6bW6p7C0rHlg2QZnJ/story.html#sthash.AzwFbRUo.dpuf

I generally agree with them doing this. I think they also need to ticket more drivers who run lights, and jaywalkers to make the roads safer for everyone.

If you want to really get yourself cranked up, read the comments below the article.

[#campyuserftw]

Rules are rules. Cyclists cannot cry out for safety, or justice when they are injured from a car, unless they abide by the very same laws. Two wheels or four, laws apply to all.

That said, with the tragic Boston Bombing, the city now is awakened to modern terrorism, and it should have, I hope, its police force focused accordingly. Glad to hear they caught this freak:

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/12/justice/cannibal-eat-children-case/index.html

:eek:

[br995]

The cops have been out in force ever since the start of the school year here. (For those not familiar, something like 90% of the Boston Metro rental market is Sept-to-Sept with an ENORMOUS influx of students/postdocs/etc arriving for September 1.)

They've been hiding behind cars and trees at popular cycling intersections even out in Somerville, catching people riding through reds, or even crossing with the crosswalk.

I agree that there are a lot of stupid and dangerous bikers out there, but I think their use of resources is misguided.

They gave out 40 citations in a few hours, but write a similar story about a traffic stop that pulls (actual) vehicles over for running late yellows/reds, right on reds, speeding, not signaling, lane changing in an intersection, and blocking the box, and you'd have 40 citations in 15 minutes here.

[druptight]

I agree that there are a lot of stupid and dangerous bikers out there, but I think their resources are misguided.

They gave out 40 citations in a few hours, but write a similar story about a traffic stop that pulls (actual) vehicles over for running late yellows/reds, right on reds, speeding, not signaling, lane changing in an intersection, and blocking the box, and you'd have 40 citations in 15 minutes here.

Agreed. I'm not going to act like I wait at every red light. I do stop (or slow to below 1mph so I can keep my feet on) at every red light before considering proceeding through before it turns green, and if there are pedestrians in sight, I stop and wait.

Had a guy bomb past me as I stopped at a red Monday this week and yell "Don't lose momentum bro" as he went flying by. Nearly got pasted. That would have been poetic.

[br995]

Cyclists cannot cry out for safety, or justice when they are injured from a car, unless they abide by the very same laws. Two wheels or four, laws apply to all.
This is a pretty silly statement. You're saying individuals cannot request safe roads or restitution/legal ramifications when wrongfully injured in an accident because other people who use the same mode of transportation don't follow the laws?

Let's not even get started on the fact that having the same laws for a 20lb, meat-popsicle-powered triangle as you have for a 3,000lb SUV is totally insane.

[MattTuck]

You know, I wonder how they do one of these operations.

Do they go out and say, "we're going to go out to xyz intersection and look for cyclists doing illegal things" and then low and behold, find cyclists doing illegal things, or do they say, "we're going to go out to xyz intersection and look for people doing illegal things, and end up only ticketing cyclists because they are the only ones doing illegal things?"

My gut says the former.

I'm all for cyclists being held to a high standard, but in a city of thousands of people, I have a hard time believing that cyclists are the cause of most of the accidents, or even traffic violations.

[druptight]

I'm all for cyclists being held to a high standard, but in a city of thousands of people, I have a hard time believing that cyclists are the cause of most of the accidents, or even traffic violations.

I can tell you as someone who both rides & drives in this city, the running of red lights by cars is something that's extremely commonplace (as it is by bikes). I think there's something to the law in whichever mid western state it is that says red lights are stop signs for cyclists, and stop signs are yield signs. That's the way I treat them in practice, and given the parity in danger between the two types of vehicles as mentioned above, it makes an extremely large amount of sense.

[#campyuserftw]

This is a pretty silly statement. You're saying individuals cannot request safe roads or restitution/legal ramifications when wrongfully injured in an accident because other people who use the same mode of transportation don't follow the laws?

Let's not even get started on the fact that having the same laws for a 20lb, meat-popsicle-powered triangle as you have for a 3,000lb SUV is totally insane.

Silly, or logical. Depends on one's pov. If you read the comments from the article above, there seems to be a large quantity of silly people.

Cars, bikes, boats, jet skis. The rules are the rules are the rules. Everything else is moral relativism.

[Grant McLean]

Rules are rules.

Yeah, it's not like those rules were made for one group of users in particular. :rolleyes:

If car drivers obeyed the speed limit on local roads,
cities could lower speed limits and remove hundreds of thousands
of 4 way stop signs, and magically cyclists would no longer be rule breakers.

But it's not like that's going to happen, since moving cars is what our
transportation rules are designed to do. All you have to do is propose some
safety measures for pedestrians that will reduce the flow of traffic, or
replace curb parking with bike lanes, and you'll find out who the rules are for.

-g

[Ti Designs]

Let's not even get started on the fact that having the same laws for a 20lb, meat-popsicle-powered triangle as you have for a 3,000lb SUV is totally insane.

I think we should get started on the subject...


If the road use was exclusivly one or the other, the rules would be different. They're not. What works in traffic laws is simplicity. Red = stop, green = go. Start adding conditions to that and people start making up their own rules. So, in order to keep the driving rules simple, the cyclists should follow the same rules.

Here's something else to think about: These bicycle ticketing opperations are just that, short term opperations. They even get reported in the news as such. Do you really think there is a single person in the Boston area who has changed their riding habits in traffic because of this?

[#campyuserftw]

The 'sting' by the Boston Police, in their mind, is to make cycling and cyclists safer. Watch this video:

http://www.tmz.com/2013/09/13/nicole-kidman-paparazzo-bicycle-bike-crash-video/

Yes it is Nicole Kidman, but this could have been your wife, with your baby in the baby carriage. Cyclists are humans on two wheels, making similar, or the same mistakes as humans on four wheels.

I would imagine 99% of the cyclists on this forum, also own, and drive an automobile. What does this mean? We are also the ones who speed (in cars), go through red lights (in cars) and break traffic laws (in cars)...and text ( behind the wheel), as well as fiddle with the smart phone. Something to consider.

[Grant McLean]

These bicycle ticketing opperations are just that, short term opperations. They even get reported in the news as such. Do you really think there is a single person in the Boston area who has changed their riding habits in traffic because of this?

That's the whole point of the blitz, to get media attention, and change people's
behavour. Without having to ticket every person, the message is spread to
millions of people when these types of stories serve as a reminder to play
by the rules. Highly effective or not, the story does more than the ticketing.

-g

[bargainguy]

Wasn't there a similar hullabaloo in CA a few years ago when cops started giving out speeding tickets for anyone doing over the posted 15mph limit on the trails?

[br995]

If the road use was exclusivly one or the other, the rules would be different. They're not. What works in traffic laws is simplicity. Red = stop, green = go. Start adding conditions to that and people start making up their own rules. So, in order to keep the driving rules simple, the cyclists should follow the same rules.
The rules already separate cyclists from drivers. I can use a bike lane; a car can't. Cars can use highways; I can't. I can pass stopped vehicles on the right; cars can't.

Point is, blanket statements, such as the name of MassBike's "Same Roads, Same Rules" campaign, are misleading and misinformed. The rules already aren't the same - but they're also not different enough.

I think what a lot of people don't realize, bikers and drivers alike, is that I don't want to be treated like a car. Or, as the laws currently stand, as a pseudo-car. I want to be treated as a bike, with different laws and different rules that recognize I'm using an entirely different form of transportation. And yes, I recognize that the laws don't yet allow for that - but that doesn't mean sensible, reasonable, and safe breakings of the law are always and entirely inappropriate.

Perhaps it's time, in fact, that we discuss whether or not it's the laws themselves that are inappropriate rather than poo-pooing other cyclists who already recognize that fact.*



*i'm talking generally, not specifically about your comment, Ti Designs

[cmg]

"They gave out 40 citations in a few hours" nice way to generate a quick revenue. where were they before? some lessons will be learned but unless this is continued it won't change behavior.

[R2D2]

.......And yes, I recognize that the laws don't yet allow for that - but that doesn't mean sensible, reasonable, and safe breakings of the law are always and entirely inappropriate.

Perhaps it's time, in fact, that we discuss whether or not it's the laws themselves that are inappropriate rather than poo-pooing other cyclists who already recognize that fact.*



*i'm talking generally, not specifically about your comment, Ti Designs

Don't be breaking the rules in a contributory negligence state. That is the first tactic used to get a case thrown out. They broke a rule and are thus negligent. Case thrown out.

[Vientomas]

I can tell you as someone who both rides & drives in this city, the running of red lights by cars is something that's extremely commonplace (as it is by bikes). I think there's something to the law in whichever mid western state it is that says red lights are stop signs for cyclists, and stop signs are yield signs. That's the way I treat them in practice, and given the parity in danger between the two types of vehicles as mentioned above, it makes an extremely large amount of sense.

That be Idaho, a Pacific North West State.

49-720. STOPPING -- TURN AND STOP SIGNALS. (1) A person operating a bicycle or human-powered vehicle approaching a stop sign shall slow down and, if required for safety, stop before entering the intersection. After slowing to a reasonable speed or stopping, the person shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle in the intersection or approaching on another highway so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard during the time the person is moving across or within the intersection or junction of highways, except that a person after slowing to a reasonable speed and yielding the right-of-way if required, may cautiously make a turn or proceed through the intersection without stopping.
(2) A person operating a bicycle or human-powered vehicle approaching a steady red traffic control light shall stop before entering the intersection and shall yield to all other traffic. Once the person has yielded, he may proceed through the steady red light with caution. Provided however, that a person after slowing to a reasonable speed and yielding the right-of-way if required, may cautiously make a right-hand turn. A left-hand turn onto a one-way highway may be made on a red light after stopping and yielding to other traffic.

[#campyuserftw]

"They gave out 40 citations in a few hours" nice way to generate a quick revenue. where were they before? some lessons will be learned but unless this continued it won't chnage behavior.

Onion-ish

"Deese wicked amount avah bikahs are taking so much uva time, we can't take da normal dohnut breaks." - Bahston PD

Boston Creme Donuts Sales on decline in...Boston. As officers are put to the task to address vigilante, dirtbag, hipster cyclists throughout Boston, "We've been kept from avah nahmal donut breaks, ya know?" said Sgt Fields of Boston PD.

Former Massachusetts Senator Kerry, blames the Russians, while current Senator, Elizabeth Warren offered, "Those aren't your roads, bikes, cars, or donuts, and those donuts...aren't part of my Native American diet."

:D

[GT2R]

Agreed it affects only a few people (those ticketed) and requires a lot of resources (instead of doing something useful ;) ) but as stated the media will spread the situation around and reach many more people.

Not stopping or doing a track stand to evaluate the traffic at a red light is just stupid. What is the potential gain? In TN, if you stop at red light and no one is coming then you may proceed thru the red light. Of course there isn't the same amount of traffic here as there is in Boston and a bike won't trip the light to turn green. I have sat at a red light thru several cycles and eventually just run the light.

[br995]

The 'sting' by the Boston Police, in their mind, is to make cycling and cyclists safer. Watch this video:

http://www.tmz.com/2013/09/13/nicole-kidman-paparazzo-bicycle-bike-crash-video/

Yes it is Nicole Kidman, but this could have been your wife, with your baby in the baby carriage. Cyclists are humans on two wheels, making similar, or the same mistakes as humans on four wheels. I offer this (http://blog.tstc.org/2013/09/13/drive-suv-on-sidewalk-hit-5-children-0-summonses-drive-bicycle-on-sidewalk-hit-nicole-kidman-3-summonses/) in response to your video.

I would imagine 99% of the cyclists on this forum, also own, and drive an automobile. What does this mean? We are also the ones who speed (in cars), go through red lights (in cars) and break traffic laws (in cars)...and text ( behind the wheel), as well as fiddle with the smart phone. Something to consider.
Finally I'm a member of the 1%!


Seriously, though, all people are fallible. And most people don't care enough about others. I hope my comments in this thread don't give the impression that I'm against ticketing cyclists who do reckless things. I totally am in favor of it.

[eBAUMANN]

I think what a lot of people don't realize, bikers and drivers alike, is that I don't want to be treated like a car. Or, as the laws currently stand, as a pseudo-car. I want to be treated as a bike, with different laws and different rules that recognize I'm using an entirely different form of transportation. And yes, I recognize that the laws don't yet allow for that - but that doesn't mean sensible, reasonable, and safe breakings of the law are always and entirely inappropriate.

Perhaps it's time, in fact, that we discuss whether or not it's the laws themselves that are inappropriate rather than poo-pooing other cyclists who already recognize that fact.

Agree.


That be Idaho, a Pacific North West State.

49-720. STOPPING -- TURN AND STOP SIGNALS. (1) A person operating a bicycle or human-powered vehicle approaching a stop sign shall slow down and, if required for safety, stop before entering the intersection. After slowing to a reasonable speed or stopping, the person shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle in the intersection or approaching on another highway so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard during the time the person is moving across or within the intersection or junction of highways, except that a person after slowing to a reasonable speed and yielding the right-of-way if required, may cautiously make a turn or proceed through the intersection without stopping.
(2) A person operating a bicycle or human-powered vehicle approaching a steady red traffic control light shall stop before entering the intersection and shall yield to all other traffic. Once the person has yielded, he may proceed through the steady red light with caution. Provided however, that a person after slowing to a reasonable speed and yielding the right-of-way if required, may cautiously make a right-hand turn. A left-hand turn onto a one-way highway may be made on a red light after stopping and yielding to other traffic.

Props to Idaho!

[druptight]

Not stopping or doing a track stand to evaluate the traffic at a red light is just stupid. What is the potential gain? In TN, if you stop at red light and no one is coming then you may proceed thru the red light. Of course there isn't the same amount of traffic here as there is in Boston and a bike won't trip the light to turn green. I have sat at a red light thru several cycles and eventually just run the light.

I'm not sure I'm following your argument here. Isn't doing a track stand stopping? The potential gain is you stop to see if anyone is coming before you proceed safely through the intersection. I guess I'm not sure what you're comparing "not stopping or doing a track stand" to in order to evaluate what the gain is.

[druptight]

props to idaho!

+1

[bargainguy]

In Wisconsin, there is a little-known law that confounded police with the Harley 110th celebration in Milwaukee recently.

If on a bicycle or motorcycle, you are at a stoplight and the intersection does not detect your presence, you are allowed, after 45 sec., to check traffic both ways and then proceed with caution. Many local PD's had no clue.

[weiwentg]

I can tell you as someone who both rides & drives in this city, the running of red lights by cars is something that's extremely commonplace (as it is by bikes). I think there's something to the law in whichever mid western state it is that says red lights are stop signs for cyclists, and stop signs are yield signs. That's the way I treat them in practice, and given the parity in danger between the two types of vehicles as mentioned above, it makes an extremely large amount of sense.


That state is Idaho, and I think no other states allow this. It is common practice, though - actually a lot of cyclists will cut pedestrians off at stop signs, and this really gets my goat more than just going through a stop sign without stopping.

[jasond]

If on a bicycle or motorcycle, you are at a stoplight and the intersection does not detect your presence, you are allowed, after 45 sec., to check traffic both ways and then proceed with caution. Many local PD's had no clue.

I abide by this rule even in a car however only if it's between the hours or 1am and 5am. Not that I'm out at this hours often but if I am I generally won't wait for a light if I don't immediately trip the light.

[GT2R]

I'm not sure I'm following your argument here. Isn't doing a track stand stopping? The potential gain is you stop to see if anyone is coming before you proceed safely through the intersection. I guess I'm not sure what you're comparing "not stopping or doing a track stand" to in order to evaluate what the gain is.

What I meant was a cyclist is nuts not to stop at a red light. If you can do a track stand and still evaluate traffic then that is good too. Don't take the risk of blowing a red light and making the news on the hood of a car.

[hankchong]

I'm not sure I'm following your argument here. Isn't doing a track stand stopping? The potential gain is you stop to see if anyone is coming before you proceed safely through the intersection. I guess I'm not sure what you're comparing "not stopping or doing a track stand" to in order to evaluate what the gain is.

In California, the requirement was a foot down.

[OtayBW]

Same rights,
Same rules,
Same roads.

[moose8]

I wonder how common this is as I have yet to see a cop pull a biker over in Boston, but that may be a function of the routes I ride. The intersection mentioned is a total nightmare for biking as mass ave right there is four lanes wide and people are always in a hurry . I do my best to avoid it after seeing a guy get taken out by a bus on that section a few years ago - his bike was destroyed but he was fine.

[gemship]

I wonder how common this is as I have yet to see a cop pull a biker over in Boston, but that may be a function of the routes I ride. The intersection mentioned is a total nightmare for biking as mass ave right there is four lanes wide and people are always in a hurry . I do my best to avoid it after seeing a guy get taken out by a bus on that section a few years ago - his bike was destroyed but he was fine.

It was a publicity stunt and you may never see it happen again.

[Grant McLean]

Same rights,
Same rules,
Same roads.

Most advocates for public safety don't see it like that, they argue
for a "complete streets" public realm hierarchy, with the pedestrian on top.

Because harm is not proportional, and some road users are much
more vulnerable than others, the "treat everyone the same" argument
is flawed. If a car or bus hits a person, they die, and the driver is
uninjured.

Currently, the street hierarchy tends to lock into place the private-vehicle bias,
leading to over-design of streets to accommodate ever higher volumes and speeds of cars.

http://chi.streetsblog.org/2013/04/11/cdots-new-complete-streets-guidelines-put-people-first-not-cars/

[jeffreng58]

Theyve amped up ticketing for cyclist in NYC also. The citibikes are mainly to blame for the reckless riding

[gemship]

Theyve amped up ticketing for cyclist in NYC also. The citibikes are mainly to blame for the reckless riding

I was thinking that too on a bike ride I took from my home to the city and back. As soon as I made it to Sommerville it was culture shock for me seeing around a dozen(I lost count) kiosk with locked up Hubway rental bikes.