Question about powermeter

[uncrx2003]

I just got my powertap in and installed it last night. Currently, I'm not really training but just doing a bunch of group rides. I have read that you need to turn off the autopause function in the garmin. Is this ok if I just leave it on since I'm not really training right now?

[fio]

You don't need to turn off the auto-pause. Doesn't do anything to the PowerTap at all. I wouldn't worry about it.

[kramnnim]

What's the reasoning behind turning off auto pause? (I've always had it on)

[Nooch]

to my best understanding it's recommended to turn the auto-stop off so that you're getting a truer picture of your workout by including those rest periods that you're not making power.

it's going to reflect your information for a workout more accurately than if it stops -- taking those zeros out are going to increase your average power/normalized/IF/TSS etc somewhat artificially.

[false_Aest]

to my best understanding it's recommended to turn the auto-stop off so that you're getting a truer picture of your workout by including those rest periods that you're not making power.

it's going to reflect your information for a workout more accurately than if it stops -- taking those zeros out are going to increase your average power/normalized/IF/TSS etc somewhat artificially.


what he said.

[uncrx2003]

Thanks for the info. Since I'm not training, I'm going to leave it on then.

[Nooch]

ultimately, i think consistency is the biggest thing you want to look at.

Keep doing it one way, and you'll increase your results if you're training. If you do it one way for a long time and then switch, then your new numbers aren't going to correlate to your old numbers.

Ultimately, I don't think it matters if your goal is to just perform better, but if you're shooting for a certain number and are trying to brag about it, then it does.

Ultimately, the number doesn't matter -- it's the percentage of increase.

(all this after I know you're not training specifically! :) )

[kramnnim]

I can understand having the head unit set to not ignore zeroes (coasting, etc), but it seems odd to have it not ignore the time you spend off the bike going into a store, pee breaks, etc...

[Nooch]

I can understand having the head unit set to not ignore zeroes (coasting, etc), but it seems odd to have it not ignore the time you spend off the bike going into a store, pee breaks, etc...

things like that I'll hit the stop for manually. But for stop lights, etc, I don't want it to cut down. Things that are actually part of a (regular) ride, if you will. But if i'm stopping for coffee, yeah, I stop the timer.

[siegfried08]

to my best understanding it's recommended to turn the auto-stop off so that you're getting a truer picture of your workout by including those rest periods that you're not making power.

it's going to reflect your information for a workout more accurately than if it stops -- taking those zeros out are going to increase your average power/normalized/IF/TSS etc somewhat artificially.

No no. Leave auto-pause on. Your unit shouldn't be pausing when you coast since you are still moving. There's a different setting for zero averaging. THAT'S the important one. You want to include zeros when averaging, however that is set on the head unit. I know on my Garmin Edge 500, the default is zero averaging off, when you want it on.

[RonW87]

I think part of the issue is "normalized power" vs "average power". Average power for a ride still doesn't quite give a true picture, given coasting, stops, easy spinning, etc.

From http://cyclingtips.com.au/2009/07/average-vs-normalized-power/

"Normalized Power combines two factors. First, the fact that physiological responses to rapid changes in intensity follow a time course that is predictable. Secondly, the fact that many physiological responses (e.g. lactate production, glycogen utilization, etc) are not linear when related to exercise intensity. For example, a ride that has massive accelerations and then lulls (perhaps a criterium) will be more demanding on your energy systems than a ride that is much more steady – even though they may average out to being the same wattage in the end. Normalized Power is basically an estimate of the power that you could have maintainted for the same physiological “cost” if your power output had been constant. Because of the factors that are taken into consideration, Normalized Power gives you a better indication of the true demands of a ride than Average Power does."

[firerescuefin]

Beat me to it...the first number I look at during/after my ride...have it on the first screen. Really helps (me) compare effort on apple vs orange courses route. I'm not sure that the 500 supports it (it didn't a year ago...hopefully a firmware update has addressed it)

I think part of the issue is "normalized power" vs "average power". Average power for a ride still doesn't quite give a true picture, given coasting, stops, easy spinning, etc.

From http://cyclingtips.com.au/2009/07/average-vs-normalized-power/

"Normalized Power combines two factors. First, the fact that physiological responses to rapid changes in intensity follow a time course that is predictable. Secondly, the fact that many physiological responses (e.g. lactate production, glycogen utilization, etc) are not linear when related to exercise intensity. For example, a ride that has massive accelerations and then lulls (perhaps a criterium) will be more demanding on your energy systems than a ride that is much more steady – even though they may average out to being the same wattage in the end. Normalized Power is basically an estimate of the power that you could have maintainted for the same physiological “cost” if your power output had been constant. Because of the factors that are taken into consideration, Normalized Power gives you a better indication of the true demands of a ride than Average Power does."

[Nooch]

No no. Leave auto-pause on. Your unit shouldn't be pausing when you coast since you are still moving. There's a different setting for zero averaging. THAT'S the important one. You want to include zeros when averaging, however that is set on the head unit. I know on my Garmin Edge 500, the default is zero averaging off, when you want it on.

No, I wasn't saying that it should stop recording when coasting -- obviously you need that. But in addition to zero averaging stopping the timer when stopped is going to skew the numbers.

That said, consistency is the only key here to measure improvement -- it's not the number that matters but the quality and consistency of the data recorded.

And yes, the 500 has done NP, IF, and TSS for the last year or so -- but training peaks always interprets the numbers differently than garmin connect.

Finally, all of this is kind of moot if you're not calibrating the power meter regularly -- goes back to quality and consistency of data.

[wasfast]

Garmin helped those with a power meter even more in 3.3. During boot, the calibrate "yes/no" comes up first thing so you can calibrate while it's hunting for satelites. Many riders don't even know they should do the manual calibration (zero offset really) for every ride if they want consistent data.

The other nice thing in 3.3 is you get 5 possible screens instead of 3 and more possible items to track in the menus. I was able to load 3.3 by installing webtracker (a couple months ago). That revision didn't show up in the 500 firmware list then.

[uncrx2003]

On another note. Everything was working fine for about half the ride today and all of a sudden, lost all power reading on the garmin. No matter how many times I tried to resync, it wouldn't find it. It was kind of frustrating. I replaced the battery when I got home and it's pairing again. While I got the unit apart, I was going to update the firmware at the same time. I downloaded the poweragent software from Cycleops but it could not install the driver on 2 different computers. Therefore, when I plugged in the unit it won't recognize it. Anyone runs into this issue?

[mtnbkr]

Average power is almost useless, NP is what matters. Also be sure to include zeros for averaging. I turn off auto-pause but that's up for argument.