Seat Masts

[Lewis Moon]

I've probably never even seen one of these in the wild, but they seem like a bad idea to me.

The biggest issue I see is that, when cut, a frame would have a much smaller future resale market. For the most part, you could only sell it to someone your size or smaller.

What's so wrong with a regular seat post that frame makers feel this is a good idea?

Am I reading this right?

[MattTuck]

They look cool. If you're buying custom, like the look and don't care about resale, more power to you.

For the stock market, they're 100% marketing. It gives sales people a new 'feature' to talk about. Soon, when they introduce regular seat tubes, that will be introduced as a 'feature'. it is the way of the world.

[Lewis Moon]

They look cool. If you're buying custom, like the look and don't care about resale, more power to you.

For the stock market, they're 100% marketing. It gives sales people a new 'feature' to talk about. Soon, when they introduce regular seat tubes, that will be introduced as a 'feature'. it is the way of the world.

Perhaps BigBikeCo. thinks that a smaller resale market would be a good thing....planned obsolescence w/o failure.

[CNY rider]

They seem like a marketing driven solution to a problem that doesn't exist, at least for me.

[Mark McM]

Seat masts are much easier for the frame manufacture to build into a molded frame (saves manufacturer time and money) and are possibly lighter.

Whether the upsides outweigh the practical downsides is up to the consumer to decide.

[Lewis Moon]

Seat masts are much easier for the frame manufacture to build into a molded frame (saves manufacturer time and money) and are possibly lighter.

Whether the upsides outweigh the practical downsides is up to the consumer to decide.

So...easier/less expensive for the manufacturers, more expensive and a PiTA for the consumer? Sounds about like business as usual.

Just cover it in "secret sauce" (advertising) and it's "New and Improved"!

[rice rocket]

Pro, my seatpost never slips.

Con, changing pedals/saddles/shoes means I need to fiddle with spacers.

[EDS]

I've probably never even seen one of these in the wild, but they seem like a bad idea to me.

The biggest issue I see is that, when cut, a frame would have a much smaller future resale market. For the most part, you could only sell it to someone your size or smaller.

What's so wrong with a regular seat post that frame makers feel this is a good idea?

Am I reading this right?

The reason for seat masts is the same reason there are red bikes and blue bikes. Options. The good thing is you don't have to buy a bike that has one if you don't see a benefit.

[hummus_aquinas]

OOF.

http://www.circleacycles.com/brian/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/b6a79c001ebd11e1abb01231381b65e3_7.jpg

http://www.circleacycles.com/brian/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/IMG_1643.jpg

[hummus_aquinas]

I guess that's not a seat mast setup, though I could see that happening on a build without reinforcement on the seat tube through the cluster.

[MattTuck]

Should have a warning that clydesdales are not allowed. :no:

[Lewis Moon]

The good thing is you don't have to buy a bike that has one if you don't see a benefit.

I'm thinking the manufacturers will eventually find this to be true, too.

BTW, how the hell do you test ride one?

[Lewis Moon]

OOF.

http://www.circleacycles.com/brian/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/b6a79c001ebd11e1abb01231381b65e3_7.jpg

http://www.circleacycles.com/brian/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/IMG_1643.jpg

It's not a bug, it's a feature! Now they have a set back seat post. For free! Who wouldn't like that?

I just wasted my 1000th post on this....

[EDS]

I'm thinking the manufacturers will eventually find this to be true, too.

BTW, how the hell do you test ride one?

Would you prefer manufacturers to dispense with trying new things? If people don't want them (e.g., won't but them) then the manufacturers will stop making them.

[Lewis Moon]

Would you prefer manufacturers to dispense with trying new things? If people don't want them (e.g., won't but them) then the manufacturers will stop making them.

Heh...no. But it WOULD be nice if they left the design duties to the engineers and not to the marketing department.

So, how DOES one test ride one of these?

[rice rocket]

Mast toppers usually have +/- 30mm of adjustment. That's usually plenty for normal sized humans within a frame size (so if the mfg has 6 different sizes, you have 6 points of +/- 30mm to play with).

[Mark McM]

Heh...no. But it WOULD be nice if they left the design duties to the engineers and not to the marketing department.

I'm pretty sure seat masts were designed by the engineering department - they found a way to make frames faster and less expensively. The marketing department is just there to convince the customers that it is better for them, to.

So, how DOES one test ride one of these?

Most seat mast systems have a set of 'caps' of different lengths available, and each cap has a small range of height adjustment.

This is somewhat analogous to the move from threaded steerers and quill stems to threadless steerer and clamp on stems. With the quill stem, you can easily adjust handlebar height - just loosen the expander bolt, move the stem up or down as desired, and re-tighten. With threadless steerers, you can adjust the height to a limited degree by swapping spacers, but for larger adjustments you have to replace the stem entirely.

So, if the old quill stems were so much more practical, why haven't we all moved back to them?

[alancw3]

Mast toppers usually have +/- 30mm of adjustment. That's usually plenty for normal sized humans within a frame size (so if the mfg has 6 different sizes, you have 6 points of +/- 30mm to play with).

+1 couldn't have said it better.

[Lewis Moon]

I'm pretty sure seat masts were designed by the engineering department - they found a way to make frames faster and less expensively. The marketing department is just there to convince the customers that it is better for them, to.



Most seat mast systems have a set of 'caps' of different lengths available, and each cap has a small range of height adjustment.

This is somewhat analogous to the move from threaded steerers and quill stems to threadless steerer and clamp on stems. With the quill stem, you can easily adjust handlebar height - just loosen the expander bolt, move the stem up or down as desired, and re-tighten. With threadless steerers, you can adjust the height to a limited degree by swapping spacers, but for larger adjustments you have to replace the stem entirely.

So, if the old quill stems were so much more practical, why haven't we all moved back to them?

Forks are replacable, no? Also, one can stack spacers on top of the stem....and the stem itself can be bought an a variety of rise measurements.

[christian]

So, if the old quill stems were so much more practical, why haven't we all moved back to them?Weight.

Seat masts make a lot of sense if you're running a pro team. Cut the mast right and you can remove and install seats to your heart's content (say, while pressure washing the bikes) and never have to spend one second adjusting seat height for the riders.

I don't think they make any sense for a rider who travels with his bike, or who might adjust the seat height.

[oldpotatoe]

I've probably never even seen one of these in the wild, but they seem like a bad idea to me.

The biggest issue I see is that, when cut, a frame would have a much smaller future resale market. For the most part, you could only sell it to someone your size or smaller.

What's so wrong with a regular seat post that frame makers feel this is a good idea?

Am I reading this right?

Yep, great place to put another big decal tho...cheaper to make, big tube, just pop a cap on it. Built a Derosa..with a mast with a cap..and it wasn't aligned with the top tube crooked...opppsss.

Dumb, like so many dumb things in bike design these days...

internal wee vbrakes on road frames
stoopid oversized, non standard, goofy BBs
seat masts
tapered headtubes/forks many with proprietary bearings
internal cabling, many w/o tubes to get 'em in there..and if they do have internal tubes, many make for really draggy cable action

can't wait for wet discs on road bikes..incredible power with a pinky...more than a few will skid tires, go over the handlebars, boil off the fluid...

wheel changes in races will be comedy central..140 disc? 160 disc? aligned? what's that noise, rubbing, pads too narrow, to wide?????

blah, blah, blah.

time to retire