Frames with slack seat tube angles

[lukeheller]

I have grown to the determination that I need a very slack STA, 71-72 minimum. 72 is workable but I prefer even slacker for more fore-aft saddle adjustability and seatpost options.
Trouble is, they're somewhat of a rare beast...

Saddle height: 76.5cm
I currently ride...
63cm Rivendell Romulus with a 72* STA. I use a Brooks B17 with short rails and have to slam it all the way back on a velo-orange 30.2mm setback post.
Custom Elephant with a 71.5* STA. Same story as above.

I have a history of achilles tendinitis and if I come any further on the saddle, it feels like my achilles is going to rip itself off.

Does anyone know of any stock frames, new or old, with slack STA's? I tried an RB-2 but even it is too aggressive for me. Heck, I can't even find a mountain bike that looks workable without spending an arm and a leg. My goal here is NOT custom, I already have that. My goal is like a backup beater bike and a mountain bike with a slack STA.

Rather than endlessly scroll through geo charts, thought I'd tap the forum's knowledge.

[David Kirk]

Older LeMonds often had 72's. I doubt you'll find anything stock slacker than that.

dave

[echelon_john]

Lemonds will be among the most slack STAs for stock bikes.

Brooks saddles, as you probably know, are very difficult to get a far back as other saddles if that's your priority.


I have grown to the determination that I need a very slack STA, 71-72 minimum. 72 is workable but I prefer even slacker for more fore-aft saddle adjustability and seatpost options.
Trouble is, they're somewhat of a rare beast...

Saddle height: 76.5cm
I currently ride...
63cm Rivendell Romulus with a 72* STA. I use a Brooks B17 with short rails and have to slam it all the way back on a velo-orange 30.2mm setback post.
Custom Elephant with a 71.5* STA. Same story as above.

I have a history of achilles tendinitis and if I come any further on the saddle, it feels like my achilles is going to rip itself off.

Does anyone know of any stock frames, new or old, with slack STA's? I tried an RB-2 but even it is too aggressive for me. Heck, I can't even find a mountain bike that looks workable without spending an arm and a leg. My goal here is NOT custom, I already have that. My goal is like a backup beater bike and a mountain bike with a slack STA.

Rather than endlessly scroll through geo charts, thought I'd tap the forum's knowledge.

[echelon_john]

great minds think a minute apart! ; )

[David Kirk]

great minds think a minute apart! ; )

It's funny........right after I posted I thought I should say something about the Brooks saddle.

If at all possible get a 'normal' saddle and that will buy you A LOT more set back and open up many more bikes to you.

Dave

[lukeheller]

My Brooks-stubborness has really narrowed the playing field for me. I had previously bought a Rivet Pearl leather saddle for the extra rail length thinking I'd give it a try but I can't seem to tear my arse off the ol' trusty Brooks.

I'll start looking into old steel Lemonds. If anyone notices one with a 58ish TT, that'd probably be up my alley.

Any other thoughts/ideas welcome. Thanks!

[oliver1850]

.

[lovebird]

You might want to check out a super-setback seatpost like Nitto's steel "wayback" post, which should get your Brooks even further back:

http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/sp3.htm

I use one on a bike with a too-steep (for me) sta, and it's a great post. They sometimes show up on ebay for not too much $$.

[oliver1850]

.

[josephr]

Just a thought --- In the early 90s when bike companies started making "Tri" style bikes, the leaned back the seat-tube on some of them, right? The Miele Lupa comes to mind and maybe some of the Centurion Ironman frames. I couldn't find any geo info on those, but I didn't look very hard either. :)

Sounds like the post options would be worth a try before going wholesale towards a new frame though.
Joe

[Mark McM]

I have no experience with it, but the Velo Orange VO Grand Cru Seat Post (http://store.velo-orange.com/index.php/components/seatposts/vo-grand-cru-seat-post-long-setback.html) appears quite nice and offers a 30.2mm set back for not a lot of $.

http://store.velo-orange.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/530x530/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/v/o/vo_seatpost.jpg

[cachagua]

There's so much flexibility in saddle placement, given different saddle & post combinations, that getting a new frame with a different seat tube angle seems like the last thing to try.

Unless, UNLESS, this is actually an excuse for getting a new frame. In which case -- let the shopping begin!

[Ken Robb]

Do I remember that Brooks made some saddles lately with longer usable rails or was that me dreaming again?

[lukeheller]

Unless, UNLESS, this is actually an excuse for getting a new frame. In which case -- let the shopping begin!

It isn't... well mostly not anyway. I just got a new custom like 5 months ago with a 71.5 STA.

Saddle and seatpost recommendations are what I was looking for. I know I limit myself with the Brooks and would open up a ton of options if I rode a modern saddle. I just have a hard time breaking free of my love with the Brooks.

I'll keep an eye out for the Nitto post on eBay; I knew about that post but never paid attention long enough to find one cheap enough to buy.

Still looking for frame recommendations as opposed to saddle/post recs...

[Ken Robb]

Musing a bit here but: how much can one move a saddle back before we change our position on it enough to notice how it feels on our butts? Might we push our pressure points enough toward the nose of the saddle to make it uncomfortable?

[FlashUNC]

If you're looking for justification, look no further than the source of LeMond's seat-tube slackness. Call Roland and get a Della Santa with a 72 degree or slacker seat tube. He'll be happy to oblige.

[David Tollefson]

My latest build was with 72* STA and uses one of the Velo Orange posts. Nice set up.

[Doug Fattic]

Older British frames made out of 531 tubing can be found on eBay for a few hundred dollars. Some of the less common names - which didn't import to the US - are not very expensive now. Many of them are 72/72. A student brought a British "path racer" to my framebuilding class with a seat angle of 71º. That is where he discovered his position with a Brooks B17 worked best with that much setback. Of course they are going to need a longer reach brake too so they make great winter bikes w/fenders.

[mtechnica]

Sorry but brooks if you're reading this, many of your saddles are absolutely useless because of the short rails.

Thanks, road cyclists

[lukeheller]

Older British frames made out of 531 tubing can be found on eBay for a few hundred dollars.
Frenchie... but like this Follis (http://www.ebay.com/itm/58cm-Reynolds-531-French-Follis-Frame-Fork-Set-/181210856895?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a31023dbf)?

Thanks Doug. This is what I've been looking to hear.

[oliver1850]

.

[Climb01742]

To the OP, right now in the classifieds is a custom Cyfac with a 72d seat tube.

[lukeheller]

To the OP, right now in the classifieds is a custom Cyfac with a 72d seat tube.

that's a pretty little whip but it's carbon and it's short in the toptube

thanks for looking out though!

[lhuerta]

Find an older Merckx steel with Century geo...a 62cm frame will yield 19.3 cm of setback and a 71.51" seatback angle.

On another note, I am not sure the seatangle will resolve your issue. For starters it seems that a 62cm frame for a guy with a 76.5 cm saddle height is WAY to large a frame (granted, I don't know your other body and fitness specs)....??

If you are seeking a change of position to solve issues related to an injury I would start with a good pro fitting and make incremental changes, but most importantly start with a frame that fits you properly.

Lou

Se Merckx geo chart here:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=118723

[lukeheller]

Find an older Merckx steel with Century geo...a 62cm frame will yield 19.3 cm of setback and a 71.51" seatback angle.
Man, a 61cm Merckx with Century geo would be just perfect it seems. That's the ticket. Hmm, now to find one!

On another note, I am not sure the seatangle will resolve your issue. For starters it seems that a 62cm frame for a guy with a 76.5 cm saddle height is WAY to large a frame (granted, I don't know your other body and fitness specs)....??
My Rivendell is a 63cm c/t but it's 61 c/c with a 59 TT.
My custom is roughly a 60x60

My riding style is relaxed, saddle level with bars, all-day rando style.

[lukeheller]

Man, a 61cm Merckx with Century geo would be just perfect it seems. That's the ticket. Hmm, now to find one!

speak of the devil (http://www.ebay.com/itm/EDDY-MERCKX-1992-TSX-CENTURY-road-bicycle-classic-61-cm-CONCOURSE-SHOW-/190801279873?pt=US_Bicycles_Frames&hash=item2c6ca47b81)!!!
Is it just me or has that fork seen an impact??

[RFC]

If you are looking for a bomber with a slack ST, the first generation Stumpjumpers, Schwinn Sierra and Cimarron, Ross bikes had very slack ST angles.

Here are a couple of my bomber projects.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/RCopple/IMG_0019r-2_zps95e2ae5c.jpg (http://s23.photobucket.com/user/RCopple/media/IMG_0019r-2_zps95e2ae5c.jpg.html)

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b384/RCopple/IMG_0091r_zps6cbf970e.jpg (http://s23.photobucket.com/user/RCopple/media/IMG_0091r_zps6cbf970e.jpg.html)

[jlwdm]

Man, a 61cm Merckx with Century geo would be just perfect it seems. That's the ticket. Hmm, now to find one!


My Rivendell is a 63cm c/t but it's 61 c/c with a 59 TT.
My custom is roughly a 60x60

My riding style is relaxed, saddle level with bars, all-day rando style.

Bike size still seems large for your seat size.

Jeff

[echelon_john]

Grant would put him on a 68cm.

Bike size still seems large for your seat size.

Jeff

[lukeheller]

Grant would put him on a 68cm.

Hmmm now that seems big to me. 6' with 87cm PBH

[pbarry]

Find an older Merckx steel with Century geo...a 62cm frame will yield 19.3 cm of setback and a 71.51" seatback angle.

On another note, I am not sure the seatangle will resolve your issue. For starters it seems that a 62cm frame for a guy with a 76.5 cm saddle height is WAY to large a frame (granted, I don't know your other body and fitness specs)....??

If you are seeking a change of position to solve issues related to an injury I would start with a good pro fitting and make incremental changes, but most importantly start with a frame that fits you properly.

Lou

Se Merckx geo chart here:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=118723

+1

You'd really enjoy a custom frame.

[pakora]

You might want to check out a super-setback seatpost like Nitto's steel "wayback" post, which should get your Brooks even further back:

http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/sp3.htm

I use one on a bike with a too-steep (for me) sta, and it's a great post. They sometimes show up on ebay for not too much $$.

Wow.

http://a248.e.akamai.net/origin-cdn.volusion.com/ctxtv.wmppt/v/vspfiles/photos/sp3-6S.jpg?1341939926

[pinkshogun]

http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?ID=B07D96CC-C4CF-482B-A9A7-4F4E49D66BEC&Enum=105&AbsPos=6

they come in 27.2

[oldpotatoe]

Wow.

http://a248.e.akamai.net/origin-cdn.volusion.com/ctxtv.wmppt/v/vspfiles/photos/sp3-6S.jpg?1341939926

Yikes

[ctcyclistbob]

speak of the devil (http://www.ebay.com/itm/EDDY-MERCKX-1992-TSX-CENTURY-road-bicycle-classic-61-cm-CONCOURSE-SHOW-/190801279873?pt=US_Bicycles_Frames&hash=item2c6ca47b81)!!!
Is it just me or has that fork seen an impact??

I think the fork is fine, but see why you asked that. It looks like an illusion due to camera angle, twisting, etc.

Nice frame.

[JAGI410]

If you like a Brooks saddle, you'll love a Selle An Atomica. Longer seat rails, softer leather, and made right here in the US of A.

[lukeheller]

If you like a Brooks saddle, you'll love a Selle An Atomica. Longer seat rails, softer leather, and made right here in the US of A.

Tried it. Too saggy. Appreciate all the saddle and post recommendations but sub 72* STA frames are the desire here.

[charliedid]

How about a Yeti FRO? :) I miss that thing and if I recall it was like 71/71

[lukeheller]

That's awesome. Even more awesome:

this guy on that bike:

[Mark McM]

Tried it. Too saggy. Appreciate all the saddle and post recommendations but sub 72* STA frames are the desire here.

Maybe Steve Bauer will sell you his old frame?

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/download/file.php?id=110336&sid=f1b1fe805b4873797780b143d835a3a1

[charliedid]

[QUOTE=lukeheller;1414242]That's awesome. Even more awesome:

:)

[JAGI410]

Rivendell Sam Hillborne has a 71.5deg ST.

[Oregonic]

Musing a bit here but: how much can one move a saddle back before we change our position on it enough to notice how it feels on our butts? Might we push our pressure points enough toward the nose of the saddle to make it uncomfortable?

I see your point, but it really depends on your individual proportions. For me, it was the opposite. I have a long torso and larger shoulders. Basically, I'm pretty slim, but top-heavy. For years I rode more of a "textbook" position for my height and inseam. I could never find a comfortable saddle. I always seemed to get numbness in my hands, toes, and crotch after about an hour, sometimes less. I always thought it was the saddle or bar tape or gloves, etc. Then I read a few posts here and across the hall from Dave Kirk and others, and realized it's probably not the equipment. The saddle was too far forward (even though it looked right) and the weight of my upper half was pulling my body forward. I was compensating by resting on the wrong areas.

Now I'm using an FSA 32.5mm setback post (on a standardish seat angle - around 73 or 73.5 degrees, I believe), with the saddle pushed all the way back. I'd love to have a 72 degree seat angle - it would make it easier to find my position without [I]very specific[I] saddle/seatpost combinations. I've had to move my bars up and back a bit to keep my airway open, but I've been pretty happy with the change so far. I now have more weight on my sitbones (at rest) and I'm not sliding forward, causing pressure on all the areas mentioned above.

Dave Kirk - you in the house? You probably won't see this, but If so, thanks man. I owe you a beer. Once the kids are grown, I'll see about ordering up a frame from you as well.

[Oregonic]

And in response to the original poster - the Ibis Hakkalugi has great angles, if the floats your boat. I'm not typically a carbon guy, but I'm kicking myself for not grabbing the 58 that was listed here a few weeks ago - 71.6HTA, 71.4STA.

I'm pretty sure that'll be my next CX bike, mainly because of the angles. That, and it's stupid light, even in disc format! Although, looking at the geometry chart, the 61cm might be a better fit, considering its top tube is only 58cm.

[pbarry]

Maybe Steve Bauer will sell you his old frame?

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/download/file.php?id=110336&sid=f1b1fe805b4873797780b143d835a3a1

Great image of SB. Didn't his career kind of go downhill after the chopper bike experiment?

[slowgoing]

I haven't kept up with the newer models, but at least some old Looks, like KG381 and 481 had slack seat tube angles.

[Hindmost]

Great image of SB. Didn't his career kind of go downhill after the chopper bike experiment?

Iirc he was trying to combat back problems at the time.

[ckamp]

You can find some of the old cinelli lugged bottom brackets in a more slack seat tube geometry.

[jeffreng58]

Setback seatposts with Brooks saddle. Fin.

[pbarry]

Iirc he was trying to combat back problems at the time.

Good to know. I dug around and found this thread across the hall--SB content a few posts down:

http://www.velocipedesalon.com/forum/f2/50-greatest-bikes-all-time-26350-2.html