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Louis
08-29-2013, 10:30 PM
More Detailed Info (http://www.acefitness.org/acefit/exercise-library-details/6/136/)

Unless we're talking about a very shallow dip, I can manage only an embarrassingly small number of these. Furthermore, I'm afraid to add them to my work-outs and improve things, because I'm concerned that they'll mess up my knees.

However, I have to believe that doing this sort of thing would make me a stronger cyclist.

1) In your experience, is the cycling benefit from this sort of strength training significant enough to justify doing them?

2) Am I just a wuss, or is there a real risk to my knees?

TIA

http://www.acefitness.org/acefit/img/exerciselibrary/medium/136-3.jpg

William
08-29-2013, 10:42 PM
I've posted about these a number of times in the past....

Here are some exercises/training tools that I use in the off-season. I use these in my combative arts training (making others do it in season ) as well as off-season cycling training.

One exercise for the lower body that hits all the major muscles is one I picked up from Eric Heiden, the Olympic speed skater. I simply call them "Heidens" (since I don't know the real name). It's a very good exercise for developing balance, strength and explosive power. It compliments footwork drills nicely (after you get passed the initial pain period) and they are effective when using them in conjunction with the rollers and/or a Concept II rowing ergometer. If you haven't done these before, and you do them right, be prepared to have trouble sitting or going down stairs for the next day or two. They will hit the glutes, quads, hamstrings, and calves.

Basically, start off standing with your feet together, about a shoulder length apart. Put your hands behind your back (rest your right wrist in your left hand). Your upper body leaning forward like a speed skater. Step out on a left 45 degree angle but keep your centerline facing forward (or only a slight turn). Make your step longer than a "normal" step. Stretch out a enough so that you come up on the ball of your right foot as you center weight over your left leg. Then press up to a standing position (a one legged press....remember to simultaneously lift your right leg as you press up). Now, push straight up...essentially doing a one leg squat. Now, here is the interesting part, you simultaneously lift your right foot off the ground as you push up on your left leg without letting it touch (you can let it drag lightly if you can't get it off the ground). As you get up to the top of the press, squeeze/tighten your glute muscles (ass cheeks ). To work in the calves, continue pressing up onto your tip toe and squeeze/tighten the calf muscle. Your right foot doesn't touch the ground until you step out on that side. From that point, step out to your right on a 45 and repeat.

For a visual: In a sense you are dry-land speed skating

When I was competing in crew, I worked up to doing these with an Olympic bar and two 45 lbs plates...up and down the floor. I really feel that doing this exercise as long as I have, is one of the main reasons that lower body strength has stayed high, and maintained my ability to move the way I do for someone my size.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=3090&highlight=squat+jack



I've been doing these for years. Another version that has you staying in place: On a smooth floor, place a rag on the floor and put on foot on it. Now, do your modified Heiden (one legged squat). Let the leg slide back while you dip down to do your squat, and slide back as you push back up. Keep your weight over the leg doing the dip. Repeat 20x and switch legs. Do at least three sets and tell me how you feel in the next couple of days.







William

MattTuck
08-29-2013, 10:43 PM
I was hoping that pedaling a bike was effectively a series of one legged squats and that I'd be able to bang these out with no problems :(


I'm sure it will help if you do it with good form/technique. This video shows another variation with the resting leg forward. Since cyclists (generally) have weak hip flexors, this one will strengthen your hip flexors AND do one legged squats at once.

I just tried to do 5 on each leg... I'm a wuss too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu-6ywxbu1A

William
08-29-2013, 10:45 PM
When you can get to doing sets with full body weight on one leg, climbing starts to get much easier!:)






William

Louis
08-29-2013, 10:50 PM
Re: Matt's video

Katherine would kick my @ss.

I can't go down anywhere close to what the guy was doing.

#campyuserftw
08-29-2013, 10:53 PM
Adding closed-chain exercises, movements where your foot remains planted, with your weight in transfer, is an ideal method to increase muscle strength within the entire chain of the leg; from toes, foot, ankle, lower limb, thigh, hamstring, glutes and core, a squat might be the premier exercise to perform for any, and all sports.

The movement displayed above is one each of your legs already performs on the bike. You can choose the level, or depth of the squat, to increase, or decrease intensity, effort, and avoid patella pain (if your knees have this tendency). Without any physical ailments, a squat should be, if a cyclist chose one exercise, the one.

A single-legged squat, or lunge, can be reduced to an initial start-up: perform double-legged, against-the-wall squats. Increase your squat depth, length of hold at the bottom, and reps/sets, as you become stronger against the wall. Progression would become single-legged wall squats, deeper knee bend, longer holds at the bottom, then advancing off the wall, into a setting as seen above.

Open-chain exercises, such as hopping, skipping, or jumping, are also something to consider. A jump rope can be the least expensive gym membership one could purchase (it can also frustrate as one trips a lot in the beginning).

Push-ups, sit-ups, and squats.

Exercises we should never forget, avoid, or stop, unless we're injured, and these movements are quite safe, when decent form is used. Here's a great place to start, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hGXD-njPL8

firerescuefin
08-29-2013, 10:54 PM
When you can get to doing sets with full body weight on one leg, climbing starts to get much easier!:)






William

Agreed, great exercise.....for so many reasons.

#campyuserftw
08-29-2013, 10:58 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Zeu4mPATpA&list=WLA9fc9yrN7EjoXE8RATwcMPZlZR_iL9K9

WWJD?

Fixed
08-30-2013, 10:39 AM
Ankle and hip flexibility knee strength alignment and moving with the breath are key things to keep in mind and will aid your cycling and recovery IMHO
Cheers :)

2LeftCleats
08-30-2013, 11:12 AM
Worked with a therapist last year to address knee problems. Discovered some hip stability weakness. He turned me onto the benefits of a Bosu ball (the inflatable half-ball with solid platform). First 2 legged and now 1-legged squats which not only build strength but improves balance. I think it's definitely helped.

FlashUNC
08-30-2013, 11:20 AM
Worked with a therapist last year to address knee problems. Discovered some hip stability weakness. He turned me onto the benefits of a Bosu ball (the inflatable half-ball with solid platform). First 2 legged and now 1-legged squats which not only build strength but improves balance. I think it's definitely helped.

Had the same thing with my knee issues. One leg does wonders for the overall stability of hips/knees/etc.

William
08-30-2013, 11:24 AM
Worked with a therapist last year to address knee problems. Discovered some hip stability weakness. He turned me onto the benefits of a Bosu ball (the inflatable half-ball with solid platform). First 2 legged and now 1-legged squats which not only build strength but improves balance. I think it's definitely helped.

Having my students do them on the soft mats has the same effect. Much harder than on a flat, hard surface.





William

#campyuserftw
08-30-2013, 11:54 AM
Having my students do them on the soft mats has the same effect. Much harder than on a flat, hard surface.





William

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vl2y2zhHNoo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9qOyzu24jc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5vebLWclf4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDBhNCeJ3xk

Lindsey Vonn knee rehab:

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2013/0828/20130828_112235_SkiingVonn082813.jpg

http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/YnPpIC.6OujPXbILHGbtNA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTtzbT0xO3c9NjAw/http://media.zenfs.com/en-US/blogs/omgcelebnews/49d705f7-6f9b-4e30-9cd5-3d366a8de3bb_LindsayVonn_TigerWoods_0-82913.jpg

It exposes weakness, or imbalance, and combats them with strength and balance.

Work both sides of body:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmmavASXAEQ

:beer:

professerr
08-30-2013, 12:18 PM
Any rock climbers here? Try one legged squats on a slack line, holding hand weights over your head once you get the hang of that. Then close your eyes after that.

josephr
08-30-2013, 12:30 PM
Adding closed-chain exercises, movements where your foot remains planted, with your weight in transfer, is an ideal method to increase muscle strength within the entire chain of the leg; from toes, foot, ankle, lower limb, thigh, hamstring, glutes and core, a squat might be the premier exercise to perform for any, and all sports.

The movement displayed above is one each of your legs already performs on the bike. You can choose the level, or depth of the squat, to increase, or decrease intensity, effort, and avoid patella pain (if your knees have this tendency). Without any physical ailments, a squat should be, if a cyclist chose one exercise, the one.

A single-legged squat, or lunge, can be reduced to an initial start-up: perform double-legged, against-the-wall squats. Increase your squat depth, length of hold at the bottom, and reps/sets, as you become stronger against the wall. Progression would become single-legged wall squats, deeper knee bend, longer holds at the bottom, then advancing off the wall, into a setting as seen above.

Open-chain exercises, such as hopping, skipping, or jumping, are also something to consider. A jump rope can be the least expensive gym membership one could purchase (it can also frustrate as one trips a lot in the beginning).

Push-ups, sit-ups, and squats.

Exercises we should never forget, avoid, or stop, unless we're injured, and these movements are quite safe, when decent form is used. Here's a great place to start, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hGXD-njPL8

+10000

have you tried walking lunges with a kettle ball?

GScot
08-30-2013, 12:34 PM
Since balance and stability were brought up I'll chime in that since adding running to my routine and especially adding minimalist shoes I believe I have seen improvements. Of course some of that running is scrambling up the side of a rocky mountain trying to keep up with a dog that climbs like a goat, so that may deserve some credit.

William
08-30-2013, 12:49 PM
+10000

have you tried walking lunges with a kettle ball?

I haven't, but I have with an Olympic bar and two 45 lbs plates.


Another fun but effective one that works all the majors and stabilizers:

Stand and balance on one foot (I'll say right foot for explanation) and raise your left knee up high. Arms positioned like your running - right forward, left back.

Start to lower yourself (one legged squat), as you move down, right arm moves back, left arm comes forward, and your left leg stretches back behind you...but does not touch the floor. push back up and reverse motion until you reach your starting position....continue and push up on to the ball of your right foot like your standing on your tip toes and squeeze your calf. Come back down and repeat.

The goal is to do it with out touching your left foot to the ground through the whole set (x15). Then switch to your left foot and do another set of 15. Three sets of 15 in conjunction with the Heidens will really hit the foundation. Strength and balance improve markedly.

Also, when doing these on 2" - 2 1/2" thick mats is like doing it on a wobble board....much harder than a solid floor or thin mat.







William

josephr
08-30-2013, 01:01 PM
I haven't, but I have with an Olympic bar and two 45 lbs plates.


Another fun but effective one that works all the majors and stabilizers:

Stand and balance on one foot (I'll say right foot for explanation) and raise your left knee up high. Arms positioned like your running - right forward, left back.

Start to lower yourself (one legged squat), as you move down, right arm moves back, left arm comes forward, and your left leg stretches back behind you...but does not touch the floor. push back up and reverse motion until you reach your starting position....continue and push up on to the ball of your right foot like your standing on your tip toes and squeeze your calf. Come back down and repeat.

The goal is to do it with out touching your left foot to the ground through the whole set (x15). Then switch to your left foot and do another set of 15. Three sets of 15 in conjunction with the Heidens will really hit the foundation. Strength and balance improve markedly.

Also, when doing these on 2" - 2 1/2" thick mats is like doing it on a wobble board....much harder than a solid floor or thin mat.







William

...just fell over and cracked my head open reading this. :)

William
08-30-2013, 02:10 PM
...just fell over and cracked my head open reading this. :)

Then do more sets and hone that balance!!:D;):)






William

#campyuserftw
08-30-2013, 02:14 PM
...just fell over and cracked my head open reading this. :)

Weighing 225+ pounds, carrying 135 lbs on one's back (bar is 45 lbs, plates are 90 total) performing lunges, is good work. The bar adds the element of required balance, and focus. Lunges with dumbbells in each hand are another, ideal method:

http://www.huntingtonbuzz.tv/videos/628d41d8cd98f00b204e9800998ecf8427e20122301172150. gif

I wouldn't make my lunge the area to build mass on my legs; lunges can really set your legs on fire in a nice burn, focus on weaknesses, balance. The standard squat or leg press would be the movement to build. Lunges are more functional, dynamic, an everyday-type movement, create good sweat, and mimic something we do on the bike as well. Side lunges are a nice change:

http://www.menshealth.com/mhlists/cms/uploads/1/1001-dbell-side-lunge-483x300.jpg

With fall and winter approaching, all nice exercises to consider, and there is no shame at all in doing them without any weight; there's always someone stronger, around the bend, and we all run our own race.

William
08-30-2013, 02:16 PM
True, when I did them with weights I was more into lifting mode at that time (260 plus bar and weights). Body weight is more than adequate for strength and balance.





William

#campyuserftw
08-30-2013, 02:35 PM
True, when I did them with weights I was more into lifting mode at that time (260 plus bar and weights). Body weight is more than adequate for strength and balance.





William

Cold steel. :cool:

Derek Zoolander had the other type :):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuDlUWQY97s

Fixed
08-30-2013, 03:16 PM
Seven Advantages of Squatting

1 Makes elimination faster, easier and more complete. This helps prevent "fecal stagnation," a prime factor in colon cancer, appendicitis and inflammatory bowel disease.
2 Protects the nerves that control the prostate, bladder and uterus from becoming stretched and damaged.
3 Securely seals the ileocecal valve, between the colon and the small intestine. In the conventional sitting position, this valve is unsupported and often leaks during evacuation, contaminating the small intestine.
4 Relaxes the puborectalis muscle which normally chokes the rectum in order to maintain continence.
5 Uses the thighs to support the colon and prevent straining. Chronic straining on the toilet can cause hernias, diverticulosis, and pelvic organ prolapse.
6 A highly effective, non-invasive treatment for hemorrhoids, as shown by published clinical research.
7 For pregnant women, squatting avoids pressure on the uterus when using the toilet. Daily squatting helps prepare one for a more natural delivery.


It is the way we are designed to sit . Simple I would be comfortable in a squatting hold for a least a minute before I started adding weight . You want to be flexible in the lower back, sacrum, hips .pelvic floor, knees ,ankles and feet
Cheers

Louis
08-30-2013, 05:11 PM
Hmmmm, not quite the benefits I had in mind, but I guess every little bit helps...

josephr
08-30-2013, 05:45 PM
I never knew I had a sacrum!

cachagua
08-30-2013, 11:45 PM
I never knew I was designed. In fact, I know exactly the contrary. But we probably don't want to get into that here. I'll read that as, "it's a way of sitting that works well with the way we're shaped".

Fixed
08-31-2013, 12:23 AM
sacrum - definition of sacrum by the Free Online Dictionary ...
www.thefreedictionary.com/sacrum
sa·crum (s kr m, s k r m). n. pl. sa·cra (s kr , s k r ). A triangular bone made up of five fused vertebrae and forming the posterior section of the pelvis
Cheers

nm87710
08-31-2013, 07:49 AM
However, I have to believe that doing this sort of thing would make me a stronger cyclist.

1) In your experience, is the cycling benefit from this sort of strength training significant enough to justify doing them?




No. Cycling is not a strength sport. It is a VO2 sport. Pedaling a bike requires very little strength(watts). If one wants to be a better cyclist then ride more, loose weight and do specific threshold, VO2 and aneaerobic efforts to pull up your VO2. So instead of spending 3 hrs a week at the gym lifting use that time to ride with a purpose/goal.

Now if there are other biomechanical issues lifting weights, yoga, pilates, etc. can be useful. But not to make your engine perform better on the bike.

Good Luck

mike p
08-31-2013, 08:27 AM
This......for the most part.

Mike


No. Cycling is not a strength sport. It is a VO2 sport. Pedaling a bike requires very little strength(watts). If one wants to be a better cyclist then ride more, loose weight and do specific threshold, VO2 and aneaerobic efforts to pull up your VO2. So instead of spending 3 hrs a week at the gym lifting use that time to ride with a purpose/goal.

Now if there are other biomechanical issues lifting weights, yoga, pilates, etc. can be useful. But not to make your engine perform better on the bike.

Good Luck

#campyuserftw
08-31-2013, 09:17 AM
No. Cycling is not a strength sport. It is a VO2 sport. Pedaling a bike requires very little strength(watts). If one wants to be a better cyclist then ride more, loose weight and do specific threshold, VO2 and aneaerobic efforts to pull up your VO2. So instead of spending 3 hrs a week at the gym lifting use that time to ride with a purpose/goal.

Now if there are other biomechanical issues lifting weights, yoga, pilates, etc. can be useful. But not to make your engine perform better on the bike.

Good Luck

Respectfully I disagree. We become weaker every year. We lose muscle every year, from head to toe. We can all improve, on and off the bike. We are not professional, Pro, Cat 1. We are very often athletes who love the bike, not pro cyclists looking at data, wattage charts; yoga and stretching is no more a waste of time and effort, than mid-body core, or leg work.

There are two trains of thought, and it is okay if these two trains cross paths: Greg Lemond's on-the-bike training in his 'Complete Book of Cycling' versus modern day cross training. Things have changed since Greg's 1990 book. His knowledge, opinion and victories, are something we all greatly admire. Today, he now advocates off-season weight training, "In the off-season, in addition to weight and interval sessions that rebuild a base of strength and power..."

We're athletes, attempting to remain athletic. Lemond offered in 2008, "If someone is starting out and wants to use cycling just to get fit and lose weight, I'd rather see them doing some weight training and bike sessions of no more than an hour with some sprints of around 20 seconds. That's going to build muscular strength and the extra muscle mass will speed up their metabolic rate and improve fat burning potential."

Bill Watkins, formerly of Serotta, a man of many spokes, talked about training with Eddy Borysewicz, “We had a two-week training camp there with Davis [Phinney] and [Ron] Kiefel; Greg Lemond was there too, but he was only 16. He could still rip the legs off of us…then we started specific intervals, even weight training, to improve our stamina, so that we could all pull at 31 – 32mph and be ready to go again by the time we reached the front.”

I rarely see people post threads about their sprinting, and I don't see cyclists on the flats, ever doing them. In his 'Complete Book of Cycling', Lemond suggested we perform sprints, bike set-up in the largest ring, smallest cog, there is no shifting, and you begin from a standstill, 0 mph. Go for 15-20 seconds! I'd like to see threads of sprint-talk, max speeds, and how one nearly erupted their breakfast after their forth sprint. Squats and lunges can improve one's overall strength, capacity, pedal stroke, sprinting, climbing, and time trials. Doing something effective off the bike, is better than doing nothing.

The bike is a machine, a tool, a device. So is the human body.

Amen and Awoman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1isuj6X9Pc

http://www.lemondfitness.com/training/gregs-training-tips

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/procycling-talks-to-greg-lemond-13858/

http://rouleurmagazine.wordpress.com/tag/greg-lemond/

http://www.amazon.com/Greg-lemonds-complete-bicycling-Perigee/dp/0399515941

MattTuck
08-31-2013, 09:40 AM
I rarely see people post threads about their sprinting, and I don't see cyclists on the flats, ever doing them.
...
I'd like to see threads of sprint-talk, max speeds, and how one nearly erupted their breakfast after their forth sprint. Squats and lunges can improve one's overall strength, capacity, pedal stroke, sprinting, climbing, and time trials. Doing something effective off the bike, is better than doing nothing.


Campy, I agree with you on the benefits of squats. If you're trying to become a better cyclist, it all helps (strength training, on the bike, nutrition, etc.) Because of the limited range of motion of cycling and fact it is not weight bearing, it is really not good to use it as your only athletic pursuit.

As for sprinting... When I do 30 second max effort intervals I generally hit 30-32 mph on the flats. I think it is hard to start threads like this because we're all at different ability levels, so its not really apples to apples.

Climb01742
08-31-2013, 09:45 AM
One leg pistol squats are a fairly advanced move, something you build up to. To get there, some other exercises to do first would be step ups, one leg presses on a leg press machine and my fav, Bulgarian split leg squats.

A key aspect of all these are, on the up motion, drive thru your heel to engage the glutes.

#campyuserftw
08-31-2013, 09:46 AM
As for sprinting... When I do 30 second max effort intervals I generally hit 30-32 mph on the flats. I think it is hard to start threads like this because we're all at different ability levels, so its not really apples to apples.

A). ^ That is very impressive work, effort, and heart-pounding, tooth-grinding by you.
B). Post photos of it, your racetrack, the max speed, the HR, Strava results etc, anything. I'd send you a new water bottle from my LBS.

Chapeau.

Fixed
08-31-2013, 12:52 PM
Utkatasana Padangusthasana vinyasa. This sequence combines upper leg work like that of Utkatasana with a strong activation of the calves—and tosses in the element of balance for an added challenge. Rising onto the balls of your feet, you engage the muscles in your feet and calves and use muscles all through your legs and upper body to make the constant minute adjustments needed for balance. As you squat, you continue to strengthen your feet and calves while amping up the work of the upper legs and buttocks. Although the exercise looks a bit like the calf raises you might do at the gym, it works and stretches your feet and legs more thoroughly.
Cheers

firerescuefin
08-31-2013, 03:39 PM
Now if there are other biomechanical issues lifting weights, yoga, pilates, etc. can be useful. But not to make your engine perform better on the bike. Good Luck

I thought a lot of your post was useful/accurate, but I do have a little different take on the above. Engine's need to produce power....I agree that performance output would be best served by specific training on the bike...to a point.

I have mentioned this in other threads on fit and fitness, but I'll mention here again, because A) It's worth mentioning and B) To this audience (mostly people that are over the age of 25) is especially applicable.

Cycling is not a healthy sport (great for your overall level of fitness). It's a very asymmetrical sport. Long periods of time on the bike (without addressing dysfunction caused by time on the bike) will lead to weak/tight hip flexors, which will posteriorly rotate the pelvis...this is not good on the bike or off of it (for your spine)...weak hip abductors, weak glutes (muscles that not only help your engine perform, but also by firing appropriately, take pressure off your lower back). There is a reason that a high percentage of cyclists develop hip and back dysfunction.

When I started working with a sports based physiologist that works with pro/high level cyclist, she ran me through a myriad of tests that pretty much diagnosed me will all the problems above. She also works closely with the guys from Garmin as well as other pro cyclists. I asked her how rare my issues were, and she said that they were the rule not the exception. She also marveled how these guys developed the power they did, despite the dysfunctions that they had. Once fixed, power numbers were the same or better, but they were much less injury prone and much more comfortable/pain free on and off the bike. The exercise mentioned here (the one legged squat..and variants of will tell you pretty quickly if your lower body kinetic chain is firing/ working properly). The exercise she first started me on that resembled this was a using a swiss ball against a wall and doing single leg squats with my weight primarily on the heal (which targets the glutes). I couldn't do 3...she could've done 30...and I used to be able to squat 405.

So all this to say that in my book an engine needs to be powerful, efficient, and reliable...and that structured weight training is/should be a key component of this. Guys racing professionally later into their 3rd and 4th decade has a lot to do with the advancements in sports physiology (how these guys prepare before and recover and recover/undo the ride.. after a ride).

Louis
08-31-2013, 04:41 PM
One leg pistol squats are a fairly advanced move, something you build up to. To get there, some other exercises to do first would be step ups, one leg presses on a leg press machine and my fav, Bulgarian split leg squats.

A key aspect of all these are, on the up motion, drive thru your heel to engage the glutes.

Thanks Climb. This is helpful.

I don't have access to a leg press machine, and the split squats look brutal. The step ups are good place to start, and it's easy enough to calibrate the difficulty by choosing the height of the step. I'll work on that and see how things go.

Climb01742
08-31-2013, 05:09 PM
Thanks Climb. This is helpful.

I don't have access to a leg press machine, and the split squats look brutal. The step ups are good place to start, and it's easy enough to calibrate the difficulty by choosing the height of the step. I'll work on that and see how things go.

Glad I could help. If you have dumb bells, you can hold, say, a 10 lbs one in each hand as you begin to build strength on the step ups to add resistance. But at the beginning, building up to more sets of step ups really helps. begin with 8-12 reps per leg, then do other leg. 3 sets is good. form is key, driving thru the heel and at the top, be sure to really lift your opposite, not standing knee high, which encourages you to really bring the standing/working hip+glute thru.

Another option is...if you have access to a longish staircase, do stairclimbs where you take two steps at once. Then, as you progress, add light dumb bells as you climb.

MattTuck
10-14-2013, 10:58 AM
Alison Westfahl demonstrates the cross over squat. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wL64CMwKhs)

Similar to a one legged squat. 2 sets of 12 on each leg have my legs pretty sore.