Serotta no longer a Paceline sponsor

[pdmtong]

Banner ad gone. Good night folks, Elvis has left the building...

[akelman]

Seems like an appropriate move to me. The original banner ad was a thank-you to Ben for hosting the Serotta forum all those years, right? Well, Ben is gone. Maybe if starts a new company, the mods will offer him some free real estate on the banner.

[akelman]

This reminds me that it's been more than a year since I tossed some coins in the hat. I'm off to click a button and get a tiny bit poorer!

[William]

This reminds me that it's been more than a year since I tossed some coins in the hat. I'm off to click a button and get a tiny bit poorer!

We thank you for your support!:cool: You folks are the best!







William

[Louis]

Sad ending to that chapter, but our little Forum's seen plenty of changes in the past, and will undoubtedly seem more in the future.

[dd74]

Why would they no longer want to be a sponsor? Seriously. This would be the perfect place to announce whatever might develop for the company. Oh, well...

[eddief]

a tribute to Ben Serotta.

[MattTuck]

Why would they no longer want to be a sponsor? Seriously. This would be the perfect place to announce whatever might develop for the company. Oh, well...

You're joking right? :)

[dd74]

You're joking right? :)
No, not really. Recapturing or trying to recapture fan base is no joke.

[Louis]

I don't think DCG is terribly interested in this particular fan base.

[firerescuefin]

Why would they no longer want to be a sponsor? Seriously. This would be the perfect place to announce whatever might develop for the company. Oh, well...

C'mon brother...the warranty thread...and now this take:help:

Their actions say this demographic isn't on their radar...unless they're launching a Surface to Air Missile at it. Think you need to back away from the computer...at least for the rest of the night.

[MattTuck]

No, not really. Recapturing or trying to recapture fan base is no joke.

I understand the sentiment.

Maybe I'm cynical, but I think at this point even a positive announcement (say, reinstating the warranties on old frames) would be met with "typical corporate response to bad PR" type responses...

I'm not sure what current ownership could do at this point to recapture this fan base. We (the royal we) seem pretty jaded at this point. there's probably more fertile fields in the cyclists that don't know the whole story.

[Dude]

I don't think this fan base is particularly interested in DCG.

[Louis]

^^^^^

+ 1

[happycampyer]

Well, if we're engaging in wild speculation, my guess is that DCG didn't request it; rather, it was the moderators who pulled the ad on the basis that the ad was originally placed "at the top of this forum as a gesture of thanks for Ben's long time sponsorship of this online community."

We made it to the other side!! (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=1075179&postcount=101)

It would seem that the gesture of thanks was to Ben, and not to the surviving (for now) company. All appearances of the banner ad in cached pages on the internet will be removed going back to May 2, 2012...

[christian]

I wonder when Kahuna is going to post a picture of his Spectrum. Full scale wormhole then.

[Mr. Squirrel]

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Surf-Nut-Surfing-Squirrel-T-Shirt-/00/s/NTc2WDU3Ng==/z/OqEAAOxycERRklre/$(KGrHqN,!rMFG!IFN3c6BRklrd2CPw~~60_35.JPG


kahunasquirrel! nuk nuk nuk!

mr. squirrell

[54ny77]

That date will surely go down in history as a memorable one in cycling.

Just like almost all doping in cycling stopped, amazingly, in 2006.

If it's said it on the internet, it must be true!

All appearances of the banner ad in cached pages on the internet will be removed going back to May 2, 2012...

[happycampyer]

That date will surely go down in history as a memorable one in cycling.

Just like almost all doping in cycling stopped, amazingly, in 2006.

If it's said it on the internet, it must be true!I hear Brian Case is working on a book called "It's Not About the Warranty."

[echelon_john]

If there is future business for DCG, it won't be with people who know them well and have any emotional attachment to any of this. Think Huffy making a deal with WalMart.

[dd74]

C'mon brother...the warranty thread...and now this take:help:

Their actions say this demographic isn't on their radar...unless they're launching a Surface to Air Missile at it. Think you need to back away from the computer...at least for the rest of the night.
So you buy w/o warranties and could care less about fan base? You should work with Brian Case. :rolleyes:

[firerescuefin]

So you buy w/o warranties and could care less about fan base? You should work with Brian Case. :rolleyes:

No...but fear doesn't drive the train for me.

....and I am observant enough to know no one wants that banner up there...including Mr. Case. Not too late to put that keyboard down.

[dd74]

No...but fear doesn't drive the train for me.
There's a difference between fear and common sense, my friend.

....and I am observant enough to know no one wants that banner up there...including Mr. Case.
There's a difference between being "observant" and having evidence to the fact, particularly when saying "no one."

Not too late to put that keyboard down.
You go first. I'm in an earlier time zone than you; it must be past your bedtime.:no:

[firerescuefin]

Cool...you get your new Trek...I'll order a new Kirk. Sleep well with your peace of mind and your common sense. I know I will. Just don't ask to borrow the Kirk when your bike is getting sent back to have the frame replaced.


So you buy w/o warranties and could care less about fan base? You should work with Brian Case. :rolleyes:

There's a difference between fear and common sense, my friend.


There's a difference between being "observant" and having evidence to the fact, particularly when saying "no one."

You go first. I'm in an earlier time zone than you; it must be past your bedtime.:no:

Let's just say a significant majority. Hear the crickets. Those are the people that seem to be agreeing with you regarding wanting/ thinking that banner belongs up there/ is a good idea.

I will...and it is.

[dd74]

Cool...you get your new Trek...I'll order a new Kirk. Sleep well with your peace of mind and your common sense. I know I will. Just don't ask to borrow the Kirk when your bike is getting sent back to have the frame replaced.






I will...and it is.
I don't ride carbon. Anyway, sweet dreams, luv. :)

[TPetsch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXrQKBO0Y5g

[jtakeda]

Probably not the best place to try and regain fandom.

Everyone here knows what went down and isn't particularly interested in doing business with a company that fires its founder over the phone on a weekend.

Didnt even have the courtesy of telling him in person.

Most of us here appreciate the experience of buying and building a bike. I think the new serotta is after the market that could care less about the "experience" and just wants a fast, well made bike that looks good and they can show off.

[dd74]

Probably not the best place to try and regain fandom.

Everyone here knows what went down and isn't particularly interested in doing business with a company that fires its founder over the phone on a weekend.

Didnt even have the courtesy of telling him in person.

Most of us here appreciate the experience of buying and building a bike. I think the new serotta is after the market that could care less about the "experience" and just wants a fast, well made bike that looks good and they can show off.
I agree with you on much of what you say. My feeling is Case should try to make a "case" by staying on as well as communicating with those who own or might have been considering purchasing a Serotta. Sure, he did a nasty thing to Ben. At the same time, if all Case said was true about continuing the brand, taking the Serotta name off the forum or letting himself get taken off, isn't a good start. But whatever...

In the end, it's the end.

[spdcyclist]

Probably not the best place to try and regain fandom.

Everyone here knows what went down and isn't particularly interested in doing business with a company that fires its founder over the phone on a weekend.

Didnt even have the courtesy of telling him in person.

Most of us here appreciate the experience of buying and building a bike. I think the new serotta is after the market that could care less about the "experience" and just wants a fast, well made bike that looks good and they can show off.

+1

Serotta was and is my only custom bike. When I decided to buy a Serotta it was more than just about the bike. It was also about the man (Ben) behind the bike, the Serotta fitting, build quality, reputation, craftsmanship, and the following he built (like this forum). It's about the biking experience and the pride I feel in riding my Serotta's and knowing that it was built by a company that cared about its customers and treated each one as if they part of the "Serotta family".

I have a Ben's Serotta, a REAL Serotta, built by a company of craftsman, run by a man a passion for bicycles. I don't know the new owners, but, their approach to the Serotta business and legacy customer base to date, SUCKS!

Ben, thank you for my great ride.

[OtayBW]

My feeling is Case should try to make a "case" by staying on as well as communicating with those who own or might have been considering purchasing a Serotta.
And yet, it seems that most everything we've seen him do publically thus far has been without care or interest for those who might have been considering purchasing a Serotta. Ironic....

[dekindy]

New advertiser Oakley Cycles was a strong Serotta dealer and one of the few remaining dealers after the changes. Kathleen Krumme is an owner and former head of the SICI. Oakley has removed Serotta from their list of Vendor Partners. I was down their over the Christmas holidays and they were building up a Serotta titanium frame. If there was any lingering doubt whatsoever that it is over for the existing customer base; this seals it for me. The good news is that they have been partnering with Kelly Bedford from the beginning and also represent Parlee.

[oldpotatoe]

+1

Serotta was and is my only custom bike. When I decided to buy a Serotta it was more than just about the bike. It was also about the man (Ben) behind the bike, the Serotta fitting, build quality, reputation, craftsmanship, and the following he built (like this forum). It's about the biking experience and the pride I feel in riding my Serotta's and knowing that it was built by a company that cared about its customers and treated each one as if they part of the "Serotta family".

I have a Ben's Serotta, a REAL Serotta, built by a company of craftsman, run by a man a passion for bicycles. I don't know the new owners, but, their approach to the Serotta business and legacy customer base to date, SUCKS!

Ben, thank you for my great ride.

Hmmmmmm.....I have many Merckx's, love the man, love the frames, but he was smart enough to make the biz a biz...leave the management up to managers.

Must recognize the entire history of a company, but as a framebuilder, yep, one of the US pioneers.

[Bruce K]

Actually, Oakley is not a new sponsor. They tried an on-line vending site with an Italian name that was the original sponsor but then decided they preferred Oakley to have the ad.

Same folks, different click-through.

BK

[gemship]

Hmmmmmm.....I have many Merckx's, love the man, love the frames, but he was smart enough to make the biz a biz...leave the management up to managers.

Must recognize the entire history of a company, but as a framebuilder, yep, one of the US pioneers.

Wasn't there a few less than steller bikes with the Merckx name on them? I can't think of a better way to sell a bicycle than with the name cache of a successful racer.

Was Ben Serotta a successful racer? I am guessing not, he just excelled at building a quality made in the USA bicycle. He also grew a custom bicycle business that the industry really never knew but at the same time his bicycles are a hard sell. The history of Serotta playing out now and I suppose the last decade leading up to this is just baffling. The more I learn the more confused I get thinking about why anyone would even want to invest in this company.

[R2D2]

Wasn't there a few less than steller bikes with the Merckx name on them? I can't think of a better way to sell a bicycle than with the name cache of a successful racer.

Was Ben Serotta a successful racer? I am guessing not, he just excelled at building a quality made in the USA bicycle. He also grew a custom bicycle business that the industry really never knew but at the same time his bicycles are a hard sell. The history of Serotta playing out now and I suppose the last decade leading up to this is just baffling. The more I learn the more confused I get thinking about why anyone would even want to invest in this company.

Serotta did build for the first US team in the TDF.
Long time ago but I respect it.

[oldpotatoe]

Wasn't there a few less than steller bikes with the Merckx name on them? I can't think of a better way to sell a bicycle than with the name cache of a successful racer.

Was Ben Serotta a successful racer? I am guessing not, he just excelled at building a quality made in the USA bicycle. He also grew a custom bicycle business that the industry really never knew but at the same time his bicycles are a hard sell. The history of Serotta playing out now and I suppose the last decade leading up to this is just baffling. The more I learn the more confused I get thinking about why anyone would even want to invest in this company.

My point. Like bike shops here in the republic, they don't go outta biz because of lack of biz, they commit suicide.

I'm thinking somebody who can write, 'may' make a book outta this..history of ben and his company, from start to heyday, to mistakes, to demise...I would read it.

Also, like some who 'leave' a biz..he still has skills, does he have the tools? Why couldn't he find a shop somewhere, and set up shop. I'll be willing to bet tube suppliers would take a chance on him..small, 1-2 person place. Him welding, somebody else doing the phone, leg work..just thinking out 'loud'.

I am eager to leave retail but I enjoy wrenching, wheelbuilding, will continue that in a shop, one person, VERY small, somewhere in an industrial park..I donno, don't know what ben is gonna do.

[gemship]

Serotta did build for the first US team in the TDF.
Long time ago but I respect it.

Yes that is interesting. One would think that was the window of opportunity where the company could of steered itself on a path to be as big as Trek or Cervelo. I guess Ben never wanted to that route.

To Oldpotatoe because I am no good at quoting multiple posts here. I like the idea of Ben starting over and staying in the game. I certainly think he could do that and gain a place back on the sponsor banner but maybe with a different name, lol.

I think this site was a tad cooler albeit different when it was the Serotta Forum. It's neat to think of a USA made bike that had it's own forum.

p.s. I would also love to read a bio on Serotta.

[Ralph]

My view (since I don't own a Serotta) is to wish everyone involved in this situation the very best. Old Serotta, new company, Ben and all the employees, new employees, etc. No point in dragging up old stuff. Just wish them all well and move on.

[William]

... I think this site was a tad cooler albeit different when it was the Serotta Forum. It's neat to think of a USA made bike that had it's own forum.




I understand where you're coming from, but Serotta never utilized the forum when they owned it. Then they decided they were going to shut it down. The take over and change to the Paceline happened because members here wanted the community to keep thriving.

I'm glad they did! The make up is a little different now than it was then...different, but just a good. atwo.;)






William

[SamIAm]

I bought a company out of bankruptcy, basically from the IRS, several years ago. The former owner had badly mismanaged the business.

He founded the business and even though his name wasn't on it, everyone in the industry knew it was his company and that he was the innovator.

I could never create a role for him within the company. He resisted the changes that needed to be made. He still wanted to be in charge or have authority in areas that were no longer his responsibility, he couldn't let go of what his vision had been for the company versus a vision that, in my mind, was better and sustainable.

So I fired him over the phone as it had become so hostile that we couldn't meet face to face.

The products are better, the employees content and more numerous, the customers pleased and a bit of money is being made.

These guys may ruin Serotta, but there is a chance they can make it better.

[sitzmark]

Also, like some who 'leave' a biz..he still has skills, does he have the tools? Why couldn't he find a shop somewhere, and set up shop. I'll be willing to bet tube suppliers would take a chance on him..small, 1-2 person place. Him welding, somebody else doing the phone, leg work..just thinking out 'loud'.


If the personalities involved weren't so "obstinate" there would possibly be an opportunity to work something out. Ben takes his customer following and contracts with some recently established upstate NY contract manufacturer to produce framesets to his specifications ....

Rather than publishing to the world the closing of Serotta, which obviously pissed off BC and Co., this might have been a more workable approach for everyone involved. Some things just seem so simple on paper. :)

[dekindy]

I bought a company out of bankruptcy, basically from the IRS, several years ago. The former owner had badly mismanaged the business.

He founded the business and even though his name wasn't on it, everyone in the industry knew it was his company and that he was the innovator.

I could never create a role for him within the company. He resisted the changes that needed to be made. He still wanted to be in charge or have authority in areas that were no longer his responsibility, he couldn't let go of what his vision had been for the company versus a vision that, in my mind, was better and sustainable.

So I fired him over the phone as it had become so hostile that we couldn't meet face to face.

The products are better, the employees content and more numerous, the customers pleased and a bit of money is being made.

These guys may ruin Serotta, but there is a chance they can make it better.

Did this guy at least have enough class not to go public with the details of the firing, unlike Ben Serotta?

[Spin71]

If they had a fan base they wouldn't be where they are.

[#campyuserftw]

If they had a fan base they wouldn't be where they are.

They could twerk at the VMA's next year. Bad press is good press. :eek:

[SamIAm]

Did this guy at least have enough class not to go public with the details of the firing, unlike Ben Serotta?

He actually handled it quite poorly, immediately contacting all the distributors and attempting to turn them against the new ownership, i.e me.

But you know it didn't work, mainly because the distributors knew there was a problem and as much as they may have liked the guy, they needed a better supplier.

I am happy to say that we eventually reconciled and are now friends.