Custom question

[10-4]

I've gone through the custom process a few times with some of the bigger names (IF, Lynskey, etc).

Recently I placed an order with a smaller builder, though I want to keep that party to myself currently.

Here's the rundown: placed my order the first week of March. Was told 6-8 weeks or so. Bike finally arrived the third week of June, 15 weeks later.

Got it out of the box and noticed a couple of things wrong, enough so that upon inspection and talking to the builder they took the frame back to fix it.

Was told at that point we'd be working on accelerating me through the process to get my frame.

Nearly 10 weeks later I was told it would still be a few more weeks.

I haven't conveyed my frustration (yet), but I'm curious where others would stand if in my position? Should I just chill?

My biggest frustration is that road season is nearly over, so I missed this whole year more or less and just rode a CX bike all year.....

Thoughts?

[Ken Robb]

You have chilled long enough. I would ask for the frame or all my money back in two weeks.

Some of us were too understanding with more than one custom builder while they continued taking new orders while not delivering on the orders they already had.

My opinion is to tell the world about non-performance by builders unless they have a very good reason like a broken arm, shop burned down, etc.

[rphetteplace]

If the bike is painted unfortunately the builder can't help the painters backlog. I've heard many tails where frames get painted within a week and sometimes can take a couple months. Depends on which way the wind is blowing. Communicate with the builder your needs/frustration first. But yeah I'd be getting pretty bent if 6 weeks was turning to 6 months.

[Peter B]

These things do sometimes happen with small builders, especially those new to the trade, though it also happens with the more tenured on occasion. I certainly understand your frustration. Time estimates are just that, though I prefer when a builder under commits and over delivers. At this point I suspect the best you can do is to be patient and chalk it up to experience. Escalating your frustration won't likely do much to accelerate resolution. Better they remedy the existing problem properly than hurry it through and risk another disappointment.

In my experience there is a reason the established builders are...established. You'll often pay somewhat of a premium for that experience. It's usually worth it.

[PaMtbRider]

I would be pretty frustrated at this point and would let the builder know. I would not give his name to the forum at this point. Seeing that it is a smaller builder with a estimated 6-8 week delivery, I am guessing that you went with a newer, less established builder. A short lead time, and hopefully a very competitive price, can make this choice very tempting. Hopefully you receive your frame soon and it exceeds your expectations.

[fuzzalow]

I don't wanna sound like a suck up to the builders, but I would just pretty much chill at this point. The season dwindling to a wind-down for us here in the Northern Hemisphere and will bring great riding weather - do what you have already done and ride what you have. There is no time pressure now.

The way I look at it is most framebuilders I'd be interested in would be heavily biased towards the creative side and not necessarily the business side. So I don't apply mass marker consumer expectations to working projects with framebuilders. And I would never choose a framebuilder with even a rumour of being inept. Do the homework to weed out the schmucks. And if you have to go with a less seasoned builder for whatever reason or tradeoff, know it going in and take what they tell you with caution. After the choice is made, just go with the flow.

In fairness, IMO the best creative types are also savvy and smart enough about business. They are aware and take it upon themselves to be versed enough on the business side so as to not to kill the economic viability for their creative outlet. But there are a lot of schmucks out there too - not always so easy to avoid the schmucks.

I am not saying the OP is unreasonable or that all builders are terrible at deadlines. But at the point a choice is made for less than a blue chip builder, the client has to anticipate stuff to go awry - hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

[bargainguy]

If this is accelerated service, I'd hate to think what regular service would mean.

I don't want to know the name of the builder either. But could you let us know what issues you encountered that led to its return?

[SBash]

Sounds like BS to me! After what you went through the first go around, you should be put on the front burner and have your frameset ASAP. The customer is number one! When I had my Auto Repair and bike shop if I had a come back with a car or problem with a new bicycle, we were on it or worked OT to solve the problem. Just my 2 cents.

[Peter P.]

As with any business transaction, lack of communication can make or break the relationship.

In the OP's case, if the builder was at least prompt and honest with why they can't make the promised timeframe, that would go a long way toward alleviating the customer's aggravation, even if the reason is, he went on vacation/to a lint collector's convention/is fleeing the Feds. Vague answers and/or no answer can understandably sour your taste for a builder.

I would "interpret" that builder's "few more weeks" to arbitrarily be TWO more weeks only so I have a reason to keep them honest. Call after 2 weeks and check on the status. Keep a verbatim diary of the call dates/times, responses, and number of responses you get. After a while of this you can cry "bull&^%*!" and demand a refund or some other settlement.

I've had a similar thing happen to me with Bilenky Cycles back in 1997 and an 8 week quoted delivery time turned into 10 months-I had to borrow a bike for over 6 months so I could commute to work.

I'm a pushover but hope I would never tolerate that treatment again.

[bewheels]

I would side with those saying to make a sink and/or ask for your money back. There is the time aspect but let's not miss the fact that something was wrong with it to the point that it got sent back!

[Climb01742]

I would express your frustration to the builder, but I would do it in a non-confrontational way. Be clear and honest, but without unpleasantness. Then listen carefully to his response. Who knows what's going on in the business or his life. If you feel he's being sincere and honest with you, decide how you'd like to proceed. It sounds like thus far you've been uber-patient and understanding. Maybe there are other, squeakier wheels in his ear getting his attention. Maybe it's time for you to squeak some too. See how he responds.

Years ago I was one of the first customers of a now very very respected builder. He built me a frame with rear wheel clearance so tight that a fully inflated tire could not be slipped in or out of the dropouts. The bike had to be returned and rebuilt. But he was a champ about it. It was part of his learning curve and mine. Shiite happens. See if you can talk it through with him and see if you feel you're being heard and treated fairly. There's always time to raise the stakes later. Good luck.

[phcollard]

...

[bigreen505]

I would be curious what the problem is, and whether or not it is within the builders control. If the frame is waiting for paint, or the builder is waiting on his suppliers, that is very different from the builder is finishing other orders before getting back to you. If this is a new builder, he may not have the capital to do what you need until some new orders come in. If that is the case, get a refund and run.

[Peter B]

I would be curious what the problem is, and whether or not it is within the builders control. If the frame is waiting for paint, or the builder is waiting on his suppliers, that is very different from the builder is finishing other orders before getting back to you. If this is a new builder, he may not have the capital to do what you need until some new orders come in. If that is the case, get a refund and run.

The problem is that if the builder lacks the capital to make necessary repairs then where do you suppose the cash for a full refund will originate?

If this is in fact the reality in this situation the best you can do is as Climb-o outlines, then exercise patience. And learn an unfortunate lesson.

[10-4]

If this is accelerated service, I'd hate to think what regular service would mean.

I don't want to know the name of the builder either. But could you let us know what issues you encountered that led to its return?

If I gave out the issue, the builder would certainly know who I am.

I'll hang on a couple more weeks. It's been about 6 months on an estimated 8 weeks, what's a little more time?

[vqdriver]

i'm betting they already know if they're on this board. but i certainly sympathize with your awkward position because i went thru something very very similar. at this point, you still feel like you're both on the same side and want the same thing. you don't want to 'out' the guy but really, patience has limits.

as mentioned above, the builder's communication and forthrightness will go a long way towards how satisfied you'll be with the final product. hopefully h's been up front with you so far.

best of luck.

[Climb01742]

Patience is usually a good path. Not always, but usually. I placed a custom order mid-November and was promised delivery in 'a few' months. The frame/fork arrived two weeks ago. There were issues with tubing arriving, fork arriving, painter waiting for humidity to drop, dogs eating homework...;)

But f/f is a beauty. Hoped it would be my summer ride. Oops. Now my fall ride. Shiite happens. Guess I feel like cutting good people some slack usually works out ok.

[slidey]

I'm not a very patient person, but I'm reasonable. However, since I see this post from your end I can only assume that either the reasoning behind the delay is flimsy, or hasn't been communicated to you - both of which are unacceptable.

Also, in either case I'd encourage you to present us with a dispassionate timeline after you receive the bike (assuming you do receive it), just so others on here can benefit from the information.

Good luck!

If I gave out the issue, the builder would certainly know who I am.

I'll hang on a couple more weeks. It's been about 6 months on an estimated 8 weeks, what's a little more time?

[josephr]

I wouldn't "out" them until you either have a frame or your money back. Until then, it sucks being at their mercy, but make them give you a specific date. It sounds like you might not be talking to the shop owner....the guy who's name is on the bike. Get him on the phone and don't take no for an answer until you get him on the phone. Once you get him on the phone, be nice.

The owner won't give you the run-around if he's that tiniest bit of honor, which he probably does, but a clerk/customer service/employee will give you words without results all day long.

Hope all the pain and suffering is worth it in the long run!
Joe

[charliedid]

I say sit tight.

[slidey]

Not having the need to deal with custom bikes I have a couple of basic Q's.

Is it usual for a smaller custom bike practice to have an employee purely for customer service, etc? If so, doesn't that go a good way in beating the purpose of the custom experience?

...but a clerk/customer service/employee will give you words without results all day long.

[10-4]

Thanks all. I appreciate hearing that others get where I am coming from, but I also feel much better venting just a bit.

In the end, it's just a bike. And my patience (or lack there of) has to do with my excitement to get the bike.

Hell, once it's here I'm sure I'll forget all about the timeline! Soon enough....I hope....

[mossman]

if you're continued to be dicked around,
send the builder a link to this thread.
and say you'll out him if your demands arent met.

[soulspinner]

I too had something like this happen with a builder well renowned. The repaint held things up a bit but in the end he came through like a champ and it turned out to be a great frame. Best of luck, hope its a great bike for you.

[Charles M]

This is a bit of a circle jerk...

You'll never buy another bike from this builder in the case the issues creating this problem were all his build problems...

In that case, tell everyone who it is and do us a service (once it's done). This is inexcusable bullsh! T.


BUT...

In the case you were calling/emailing during the first build or during the repair and talking about changes, It's on you to wait... Your lead time clock should start at the end of your very last call or email saying "just calling to check on things and talk about my bike". Call for anything... restart the clock.

In the case you got what you ordered and want to change something, It's on you to pay him for the changes, Pay him for the time involved to work through the changes and wait... Time's money and you shouldn't expect someone to work through your internal issues for free.

In the case the guy got sick (or had family issues) wait...

In the case he messed up AND you had changes... Wait...



But if this was a straight forward order and bad product delivery, it's BS and you should talk about who it is after your bike is back.

[jpw]

it's more expensive to get a new customer than an old new customer, something the builder should mull over when eating his Christmas cake.