Rant: The Colorado/ USA Pro Tour Challenge is a Joke

[firerescuefin]

First of all this post pains me to write...

I am a Colorado resident, and I desperately want/believe this could be a good race.

Uninspired routes, lame finishes, a race that has names in it...but none that matter, target it for anything other than a TdF hangover morning after bloody Mary.

The only thing the race has is sprint finishes...but Sagan could beat the rest of these guys with one leg (there are no other legit sprinters that show, and haven't for the last 3 years).

I have a hard time bringing myself to watch it...and I watch everything.

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . but it seems to be in a difficult place in the calendar. If top people are in the Tour and they--or a significant portion of their team--are also aiming for the Vuelta, then it would seem to me to be counterproductive to jaunt halfway around the world, do a major race, and possibly get injured when they could be resting up and doing specific training for the Vuelta.

Granted, the vuelta is not the biggest race in the world either, but if I was a European based sponsor like Quick-Step I would want my stars--aka Cav, etc.--to show the company colors on kind of home turf in Spain rather than in the US where they may not have as much sales presence.

Just a wild guess . . .

BBD

[alessandro]

Go on--don't stop there. For a good rant, you need to get properly wound up, and then, when you hit a nice high cadence, do some quality venting for a while before you pull off.

At least you and chenger are watching it. Me, I'm at work, so I have to take it on faith that there's very little to see, but I'd like the chance to form my own opinion. My problems are:

1) By the time I can sit down to watch the race, TV coverage is over. I know, I'm happy that it's on TV at all, for those of us that get NBC Sports Network. But once Phil & Paul have signed off, there's practically nada available online. I can't see anything more than a couple of minutes of the last 2 kms of the stage, and maybe some highlights the next day. As with just about every broadcast, the broadcasters are pitifully narrow-minded about putting even part of their feed on the internet. A few years back Universal Sports had the entire Giro d'Italia available, for free, online--you could rewind or fast forward through a stage at will. It was awesome.

2) What little I can see looks like amateur hour: Moto cameras unfocused, pointing at the ground, zooming out or zooming away, choppy feed. The Tour of California was never this bad. I understand how transmitting a live broadcast of a bike race works, and that it's not easy or cheap. But other people have managed to do it, and well, for a long time. Why not Colorado? :(

[chengher87]

Although I am watching, I tend to agree with OP. For a race in Colorado, why are all the finishes flat or on a descent? The ToC also was lacking in star-power too, but the finishing climbs up the Tramway and Mt. Diablo (this year) and Big Bear and Mt. Baldy (last year) really lit up the race.

They are live-streaming it free on the USAPRO CHALLENGE and I'm streaming it as I run my experiments in lab.

To me, it's a warmup to the Vuelta, which I am REALLY looking forward to. Not my favorite race (actually watched the Alpe D'huez triathlon and that was MUCH more entertaining), but it's either this or the Tour de Fjordes.....

[firerescuefin]

Dave has a valid point...but Chengher hits it in the head...the routes and finishes blow....save the Vail TT...which only utilizes half of Vail Pass. I would understand this in year 1....not 3. This year's route is a step back from last year.

[harryblack]

First of all this post pains me to write...

I am a Colorado resident, and I desperately want/believe this could be a good race.

Uninspired routes, lame finishes, a race that has names in it...but none that matter, target it or anything other than a TdF hangover morning after bloody Mary.

The only thing the race has is sprint finishes...but Sagan could beat the rest of these guys with one leg (there are no other legit sprinters that show, and haven't for the last 3 years).

I have a hard time bringing myself to watch it...and I watch everything.

Props for admitting this, Fire. We may quibble on some issues but our strong Floridian ethics will out. Race was crap last year, it's worse than year and is an embarrassment to both Colorado and American bike racing generally.

Absolutely pathetic to have a stage race there and have it suck so badly. Compare it to the Tour de Georgia (RIP), which did a fine-- if not totally "epic" job (because early in season, didn't want to crush all domestics)-- job designing diverse courses that exploited the state's varying terrains, towns, cities.

"Ironic" too the race would likely not exist had Lance not helped lobby for it but there you go.

One of my favorite scenes in Kerouac "On The Road" is when he goes to see Beethoven "Fidelio" at an opera house in Denver.

Needless to say, Kerouac, Beethoven and opera are >>>>> ersatz Colorado "Pro Tour Challenge" (sic)

[MadRocketSci]

We don't have major ski stations based at the top of climbs...so no exciting uphill finishes

The main purpose of this race is to fill rooms and restaurant seats at the resort towns....see above

Our climbs are much straighter, wider, more consistent in low grades (~5%), offering fewer steep sections to attack

The lack of oxygen makes everyone slow.....ie 240 Watts on Independence

That said, the bachelor gulch climb today should be interesting....

Regarding Vail Pass, part of it is a bike path, then part of it runs pretty much on the shoulder of I70...how you gonna manage that???

[Bruce K]

Frf - you know they can't go much farther up Vail Pass before they would have to deal with that ridiculous part that goes under the highway

I know they want to finish in towns/populated areas but why not go over Freemont Pass or Battle Mountain or end at the top of Pike's Peak?

BK

[InspectorGadget]

I'm sorry the US Pro Challenge is not living up to what it could be, I understand your disappointment.

Our recently completed Tour of Utah didn't have a lot of big names, but I thought there was some great racing on some awesome routes. 587 miles and more than 43,000 feet of climbing over 6 days of racing seems to rule out the big time sprinters.

But hey, you've got Paul and Phil calling the action. :rolleyes:

[firerescuefin]

We don't have major ski stations based at the top of climbs...so no exciting uphill finishes

You need to travel ride a little more in the CO... little race in France and another in Italy don't always have their mt finish at the top of a ski station.

The main purpose of this race is to fill rooms and restaurant seats at the resort towns....see above

We're in year 3...not 1. It doesn't have to be one or the other...as I've said race took a step backwards this year.

Our climbs are much straighter, wider, more consistent in low grades (~5%), offering fewer steep sections to attack

See my first comment.

The lack of oxygen makes everyone slow.....ie 240 Watts on Independence

:rolleyes:

That said, the bachelor gulch climb today should be interesting....

Regarding Vail Pass, part of it is a bike path, then part of it runs pretty much on the shoulder of I70...how you gonna manage that??

Pretty easily




My responses in bold

[firerescuefin]

I'm sorry the US Pro Challenge is not living up to what it could be, I understand your disappointment.

Our recently completed Tour of Utah didn't have a lot of big names, but I thought there was some great racing on some awesome routes. 587 miles and more than 43,000 feet of climbing over 6 days of racing seems to rule out the big time sprinters.

But hey, you've got Paul and Phil calling the action. :rolleyes:

Watched the ToU...exponentially better IMO.

[CunegoFan]

Don't fret. Utah is just to the left and features awesome routes. Unfortunately the coverage crapped out this year when the peloton went over the Hog's Back.

[MadRocketSci]

I dunno...i think you're underestimating the economic forces behind the route selection.

This being the USA, for liability reasons alone i wouldn't be running the race 10 feet away from I70 and its overheating/brake-burning semi's. How you gonna run your team support car along a bike path? I don't see how being year 3 or 10 changes that?

Flagstaff was the exception to what i wrote originally....but i don't think boulder needs to go through that...the race needs boulder more than boulder needs the race.

[firerescuefin]

I dunno...i think you're underestimating the economic forces behind the route selection.

This being the USA, for liability reasons alone i wouldn't be running the race 10 feet away from I70 and its overheating/brake-burning semi's. How you gonna run your team support car along a bike path? I don't see how being year 3 or 10 changes that?

Flagstaff was the exception to what i wrote originally....but i don't think boulder needs to go through that...the race needs boulder more than boulder needs the race.

Triple bypass uses that route every year...and hundreds use it each day...you could shut down a lane or two for 5 hours...cdot does it on i70 daily in the summer. That stage is the least of my complaints. On tv, most of it is unwatchable.

[bigreen505]

To me, the failing of this race is the route, which is a combination of wanting to be all things to all riders as well as the high costs to have a start or finish in a town.

Something up Pikes Peak would be great. Hwy 103 or Mt. Evans would make a hell of a time trial or stage finish (say Boulder to Summit Lake). So many places you could go, but Idaho Springs and a lot of other small towns can't afford the cost of a race start or finish, which seems to be in the $200,000 - $300,000 range.

FWIW, I stumbled across this list of additionals that host cities must provide:

According to the contract between Golden and Classic Bicycle Racing, the city must provide expected services such as:

Police services
Public Works and road services
Permit fees waived
Emergency medical technicians for general public
Portable restrooms
Trash removal and recycling
7NEWS found the city must also pay for food and lodging for about 144 people:

90 hotel rooms (60/40 ratio of double/single rooms)
All parking expenses
Minimum 3-star hotel
Meals for start line construction crew/advance team
Media breakfast (100 people)
Team/staff boxed lunches (600 people)
Based on the contract, the city must also provide for the event's VIP hospitality area:

Food and beverage (300 people)
Professional wait/service staff
Floral arrangements for tables
Table linens

I had heard rumors that getting the race in your town required a payment to the organizers of several times that amount, but I am having trouble finding confirmation of that. Now, back to the first point, when people think of Colorado they think of mountains. For most of us, if you are only going to watch a few stages in Le Tour, it will be the Alps or the Pyrenees. Sure, put in a couple stages for the sprinters, but a Colorado race should be a mountain race, and not one where the stages end just before the climb starts like the Vail time trial.

[Climb01742]

Glad I'm not the only who is finding the race unwatchable. And as others said, I'll watch any cycling, but not this. For me it feels like there are three reasons: poorly chosen routes, unmotivated big name riders, and poor camera work.

[Liv2RideHard]

Flying out of Denver as I type this. Sounds like I shouldn't bother looking out my window to try and spot the race...

I agree with Geoff. Profile could be a lot better.

[Dave B]

We need a tour de interstate 70. See the country and stop focusing on one effing state.

[oldpotatoe]

Watched the ToU...exponentially better IMO.

A couple of gents from VeloNews said the same thing..kinda un inspired route/finishes...in Colorado...possibilities exist..just not 'there', IMHO.

Don't think Utah was 'exponentially' better but better, but a USA race...not the giro, not even a week of the giro.

Never gonna be a Euro race.

[MattTuck]

We need a tour de interstate 70. See the country and stop focusing on one effing state.

I kind of feel this way also. Can we not find a good 200 mile route for a US Premier one day race and a stage race of 10 decent routes, both rotating around the country every year?

[spacemen3]

I had a blast today catching the start in Steamboat and driving the gravel back roads to watch them cross the Colorado River mid-stage. The racers came within a foot of my dog and I at top speed! My wife and sister couldn't stop talking about cycling. I even waved at a guy in the back of a state trooper vehicle who was Lance or his spitting image and he waved right back. This is a great sport. Yeah, I've been to the Tour de France. So, all of you downers can go suck it. :)

[krhea]

Great post "Fire"! I agree 100%. You telling me there's no roads/routes as thrilling at ToC, c'mon, I lived there for 4 or 5yrs and heck I rode better, more exciting routes on training rides. The possibilities in Colorado are endless from my perspective so why aren't they using them? And you're right, you don't need no stinkin' ski resort finishes although, there are some that would work well. Get these guys on some of the great dirt climbs in and around the "Republic", that would make for some great TV.
I'm watching race everyday 'cause it's all we got as cyclists this time of year but I'm certainly not on the edge my seat because of the actual racing or challenge of the daily stages.
Get yourself on the race committee Fire and get this thing in gear dude! The Paceline posse will back ya up..

[MadRocketSci]

you guys should just put up some examples of routes you'd like to see. then we can collectively judge if 1) they'll generate high-season revenues and 2) if infrastructure along the route can handle the burden. Make it a fun connect the climbs exercise. Super bonus points if Aspen, Vail, Breck, Telluride, Durango, Gunnison, Crested Butte, Salida, or Buena Vista are involved. If you find something then we might have something real to bitch about.

I agree that there is room for one stage that serves to promote the state in general, without going through any big-name towns. What are some good options there?

[J.Greene]

Pikes Peak sounds like a good idea, but 14,000 feet would make for very boring racing.

I don't remember this kind of criticism of the Coors Classic, but then again the Internet didn't exist in the mid 80's.

[harryblack]

you guys should just put up some examples of routes you'd like to see. then we can collectively judge if 1) they'll generate high-season revenues and 2) if infrastructure along the route can handle the burden. Make it a fun connect the climbs exercise. Super bonus points if Aspen, Vail, Breck, Telluride, Durango, Gunnison, Crested Butte, Salida, or Buena Vista are involved. If you find something then we might have something real to bitch about.

I agree that there is room for one stage that serves to promote the state in general, without going through any big-name towns. What are some good options there?

The race is garbage Mr. MadRocketSci and EVERYONE will say good riddance when it dies-- and not a single stage too soon. The obvious short-sightedness and likely corruption of the current directors does NOTHING to promote either the sport or the state and if you believe otherwise, post ** your ** data proving otherwise. If "High season revenue" is all that matters than you've proven the point for us-- ONE DAY at Philly (even this year with shortened course but Manayunk finish) >>>>> all of this insipid parody of what a Colorado stage race could ** easily ** be.

[MadRocketSci]

The race is garbage Mr. MadRocketSci and EVERYONE will say good riddance when it dies-- and not a single stage too soon. The obvious short-sightedness and likely corruption of the current directors does NOTHING to promote either the sport or the state and if you believe otherwise, post ** your ** data proving otherwise. If "High season revenue" is all that matters than you've proven the point for us-- ONE DAY at Philly (even this year with shortened course but Manayunk finish) >>>>> all of this insipid parody of what a Colorado stage race could ** easily ** be.

no, i think that **you** should be proving your point by showing better routes because **you** are the one(s) bitching about it and making accusations of either ignorance or impropriety. I'm not defending the race in any way, I am merely pointing out that IT IS WHAT IT IS and that reality sets a constrictive set of constraints that limits the variation and creativity of the routes. Without the ability to be an economic engine the race will die regardless of how exciting it is for hardcore bike nerds. Have I failed to communicate that?

France is a different story. You can almost much connect any two points within 120 miles as the crow flies with very interesting, picturesque, and economically positive secondary routes. We don't have that luxury here. But hey, i'm relatively new to CO, so enlighten my heatheness if it's not too much trouble...please....with sugar on top...

[firerescuefin]

you guys should just put up some examples of routes you'd like to see. then we can collectively judge if 1) they'll generate high-season revenues and 2) if infrastructure along the route can handle the burden. Make it a fun connect the climbs exercise. Super bonus points if Aspen, Vail, Breck, Telluride, Durango, Gunnison, Crested Butte, Salida, or Buena Vista are involved. If you find something then we might have something real to bitch about.

I agree that there is room for one stage that serves to promote the state in general, without going through any big-name towns. What are some good options there?

The organizers will never push the envelope even a little...as you mentioned (correctly)...it's all about the dollars...and start and finish towns...because that's easy to make a dollar today (not worrying about keeping the interest of fans and tomorrows/next years/ five years down the road dollars) It would take some (not a lot) foresite to choose finishes near towns that were great finishes...which would translate to increased viewership and increased dollars. Regarding your "challenge" to pick a route....are you serious? Without haven ridden most of these roads I could choose a better route with topographical maps and google earth...you're not really laying down the gauntlet with that one. This was advertised as a "great race" in the spirit of the Coors Classic...what a joke. At its current clip, viewership will continue to trend down, the race will lose momentum, and it will fade away.....and that pisses me off.

[tiretrax]

It's been a let down all its years. Most of the stages have been boring. The Flagstaff finish was the most exciting, followed by the Steamboat to Breck stage which Andy Schleck almost won.

Chris Horner said he wouldn't ride the US Pro because the mountain stages were difficult due to altitude, not the climbs themselves. Adding Pikes Peak or Mt. Evans would make for better stages. The quality of the camera work, etc. might not be, however. It's been strictly amateur hour 'till now.

Vail Pass would only work if the interstate was closed and the highway were used, but that would be for at least 20 miles and for more than two hours. I couldn't see that happening during the week, maybe on a Sunday.

The need for local sponsorship makes for some crappy stages - in Europe, too.

I've pondered how to make a great national race. There have been some great races in the U.S. that are as compelling as any elsewhere (and much more so than the Tour of Oman, Quatar, or Turkey and deserve(d) better television coverage).

I think it's a little strong to call it garbage, etc. Just boring. Tour of California had a lot of boring stages, too, but then, the TdF has been boring for quite some years. I watch it because I love the scenery, watching the peloton, and getting what insight I can glean from filtering Phil Liggett.

[Lovetoclimb]

Does Eurosport cover this race and if so has anyone watched that way? I find Carlton Kirby and Sean Kelly enlivening no matter how dull the race actually is. Mostly Kirby actually, but Kelly balances him out well.

Something that was touched on already is the "big guns" of the peloton either not attending the race or attending just to get race miles in with little or no hunger for glory. Seriously did anyone think Joe Dombrowski was going to challenge for a podium spot overall? Even at 75% Froome should be able to ride anyone off his wheel on the climbs, and TT half again as well as the next best person. So why not put on a show for the sponsors and spice up the GC a little bit. Hell Porte could probably do the same. Instead we are left to watch Jens do the same old hail mary style breakaway and listen to P&P discuss the same exact things about his wattage, pedaling style, and catch-phrases. Sagan is always fun to watch but I completely agree, who is he even sprinting against. As usual his team seems to disintegrate inside of 5k leaving him to out maneuver and out power everyone else. It looks like TJVG is set to win this race adding to his ToC palmares, but where was he during the TdF? The GC battle for USPCC is left to one week stage racers and ex dopers. One of my favorite exerpts from Twitter after the penultimate stage of the ToU was:

Look at that, I got sucked into my own little rant!

[MadRocketSci]

Fire; you bet your a$$ i'm serious. It's not a challenge, i'm not swinging my virtual dong around, it is an interesting problem....the rockies are not the alps. We don't have towns where people can spend their money drinking, eating, shopping at the top of interesting climbs, which was what i am principally addressing, the lack of uphill finishes. Those are a dime a dozen in France. Le Grand-Bornand, Les Arcs 1800/1950/2000, Semnoz, Plateau de Beille, La Mongie, L'Alpe, Val Thorens, all have ski lifts, places to drink, stay, eat, and shop, and everyone is happy for the trouble and effort.

Seriously, where else can we go? Can we string an HC, two cat 1, two cat 2 climbs together somewhere that gives the casually interested public a good time while making businesses, Hickenlooper+mayor of a non-trivial town happy? Which Coors Light stage should they bring back?

[MadRocketSci]

Here's the mainstream judgement of the race's "success", with data...expect a similar followup every year...until taxable revenues start to fade, then stick a fork in it...

http://www.denverpost.com/cycling/ci_21803490

[tiretrax]

MRS, FRF - what are some stages that you would suggest? Could there be a montain top finish on a pass? Are there any switchback roads (I would like to see Hoosier Pass climbed from Breckenridge)?

[Lovetoclimb]

MRS, FRF - what are some stages that you would suggest? Could there be a montain top finish on a pass? Are there any switchback roads (I would like to see Hoosier Pass climbed from Breckenridge)?

A finish in Nederland would be great, maybe by the reservoir or wherever Boulder Canyon Rd peaks. Or how about Ward!? doubt either of those wonderful but small towns have the money and infrastructure to meet the demands of race organizers. If I lived nearby I would certainly do my best to organize volunteers though.

[Elefantino]

Now the Tour of Alberta, on the other hand, will be spectacular.

Particularly if you follow the coverage on VeloNews. :D

[xjoex]

A finish in Nederland would be great, maybe by the reservoir or wherever Boulder Canyon Rd peaks. Or how about Ward!? doubt either of those wonderful but small towns have the money and infrastructure to meet the demands of race organizers. If I lived nearby I would certainly do my best to organize volunteers though.

It came through Ned last year.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-5a5CaIZ26Ew/UDrj3_oqYwI/AAAAAAAAGdw/B881DqXbLBI/s800/IMG_8947.jpg

-Joe

[MadRocketSci]

i think geographically Idaho Springs as mentioned and Nederland would be ideal. However, for Idaho Springs it has been pointed out that they don't have the infrastructure to do it...i don't think a packed Beau Jo's Pizza makes it worth it. Plus, I don't think certain powers want people tramping on Mt. Evans and its ecosystems. Nederland would be awesome as a finish, using Magnolia or Sugarloaf as the final climb. The dirt makes it extra CO. Someone who's more familiar with it should chime in, but my impression is that Nederland spends most of its time being a sleepy town with some facilities to cater to a small local daytripping outdoorsy set. Being a pass through town (using the most boring road 119) last year was one thing....but if Idaho Springs can't do the start, i can't see them stepping up either.

[MadRocketSci]

Here's the mainstream judgement of the race's "success", with data...expect a similar followup every year...until taxable revenues start to fade, then stick a fork in it...

http://www.denverpost.com/cycling/ci_21803490

apologies for following up my own post...but this:

Like every other host, 650 of those rooms were used by race organizers and booked at a discounted or even free rate.

you have to have 650 rooms just to support the organizers? And comp a bunch of them??? I think we have a "bloat" issue here that is the root of the problem...

[xjoex]

apologies for following up my own post...but this:

Like every other host, 650 of those rooms were used by race organizers and booked at a discounted or even free rate.

you have to have 650 rooms just to support the organizers? And comp a bunch of them??? I think we have a "bloat" issue here that is the root of the problem...

That is not so unusual with a large group. We don't know the ratio of discount/comp. If for every 20 rooms they book at 80% of regular cost they get a free room this seems like fine business sense. If it's 80% free/20% pay then its not good. But we don't know what the case is.

I've presented at conferences where the host hotel comped me...

-Joe

[firerescuefin]

MRS...how much riding have you done in Colorado?...curious....I am not an expert from stem to stern (of the state), but I have ridden enough to know that "long gradual climbs" are far from how I categorize the majority of Colorado riding...especially if you're looking for something different.

Let's break down a 1 week stage race.

Stage 1...prologue...road race with a sprint finish...or a crit...CHECK

Somewhere along the line a time trial...preferably one with some topography changes...Vail TT meets those requirements...I'd love to see them go under I 70 and finish near the lake at the top/near the rest station (as it may necessitate bike changes..equipment choices)...but as I noted earlier this is more a want and less a need...current route checks off the boxes...although I would argue it would be easier to get people up to and back into Vail/Copper Moutain/Frisco if you extended the route. I will say I did enjoy having the TT in Denver last year as the event was essentially over after the Vail TT days the year before.

So that's 2 stages...Last stage goes up and over some stuff and finishes in Denver...cool...get why that makes sense.

So we are left with 4 stages...lets say 2 sprint finishes with a good start and finish and take you through some towns you can charge for the "right" to do so.

Not too hard so far.

So now we are at 4 stages.....how about 1 classics type track that have enough topography changes towards the last 50-70K that it will draw out some real attacks and lends itself toward some folks (not just a sprinter) to get off the front and finish with a punchy uphill finish....hard enough to maybe get some GC folks paying attention.

Pikes Peak...newly paved....has name recognition...and is stupid hard (have ridden it once)...make a frickin event of it (Saturday finish...with the Vail TT on Friday)...let people camp and set up shop for 2 or 3 days. Make the next to last day mean something (with a huge party thrown in).

What do you want the event to be...a gravy train for the organizers like it is now, with very little drama or creativity built in?...they could ride the gravy train (and I understand it needs to be profitable...and I'm all for people making money..just not at the expense of making the race a training camp) and make it an interesting race. I saw the link to the numbers you posted. I started doing the math...it doesn't add up...kind of like when you go to a Rockies game and there's 10K in the seats and the attendance is listed at 25K. Even if we buy those numbers...are you extrapolating them going forward. In it's current state (meaning lame routes...and Peter Sagan looking like he's Cav vs the local Cat 4's)...I have to wonder how long you are going to keep people entertained.

FWIW..many of the towns supporting many of the TdF and Giro routes (starts/finishes) are what we would call small towns...not booming cities. The organizers are killing the race IMO.

[alessandro]

[clip]Plus, I don't think certain powers want people tramping on Mt. Evans and its ecosystems.

This is certainly an issue for race organizers. For last year's race, the USFS banned camping on Independence Pass, because they're concerned about degradation of fragile alpine vegetation etc.

So that probably makes it an issue for having finishes on passes or mountaintops.

But even where it's not an issue, what happens if there's no town up there to pony up the $$? What does the TdF do for Mont Ventoux--nobody is staying there after the stage is over.

[MadRocketSci]

Fire, thanks i'll think about what you've posted and opine, but as you know i'm relatively new here so I AM looking to be shown wrong. I think the race is boring too....i didn't bother watching the first 3 days because i've already seen that movie before. Watched yesterday's to justify my not taking a day off to ride Bachelor Gulch (the Ritz side up!) in a downpour. That said, I don't think you understand the scope of ski stations in France. There are tons of "small towns" all over the Pyrenees and Alps who depend upon ski-tourism for income. These small towns, or stations, are all in intense competition with each other for tourist dollars and could use the extra help in the summertime to boost their finances. They need/want the marketing, room occupancy, and business that comes from an internationally watched event.

Check out the list of ski stations/resorts in France (alps and pyrenees):

http://www.onthesnow.com/france/ski-resorts.html

this goes for 11 pages...think of all the possible permutations linking these together or with the big start cities. Add to that the secondary road system in France and you've got plenty of choices that don't suck.

now look at our list of winter towns:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Colorado_ski_resorts

add to that some "summer" resorts like Salida, Buena Vista, Leadville, Glenwood Springs, what the hell Grand Junction and Estes Park (with RNP off limits) and we have limited route choices being repeated ad hurleum. Do i want more interesting routes? You know it bi*ch! But where's the circus going to park and sleep? Who else wants these people in their back yard?

[MadRocketSci]

and I'm all for people making money..just not at the expense of making the race a training camp

For the powers that be, this is backwards

[MadRocketSci]

i'll throw out a suggestion...why not uphill finish at A-basin? They could use some more international exposure. Since it's all part of Vail anyway, couldn't the circus use Keystone as a base? Or is Breck too important for these two Epic Pass red-headed stepchildren?

[MadRocketSci]

the joke just got unfunnier :mad:

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_23928731/pro-challenge-economic-impact-deepens-hosts-getting-finish

doubt those girls care much about uphill finishing....:help:

[#campyuserftw]

Amazing the organizers create this race with no-fat, powdered soy milk, in an area, Colorado, heartland of American cycling, where such epic battles can be waged. My input on how-to improve the race:

Stage 1 - ITT or TTT
Stage 2 - Flat finish for the Sprinters
Stage 3 - Brutal mountain stage, with 5 mountain climbs, ending with steep uphill finish
Stage 4 - Flat finish for the Sprinters
Stage 5 - Find a mountain that has some snow, reproduce Giro's 1988 Gavia, place rabid wolves along the route, and make all the men cry.
Stage 6 - Up and down day, with a final mountain climb/descent, allowing a cheeky move by he who is second place etc, to make a move.
Stage 7 - ITT through the capital, Denver

The leader of the race wears the Red/White/Blue jersey. France has yellow, Italy, pink, we have stars and stripes.

Team cars become Chevy and Ford pick-up trucks that get 14 mpg.

Winner of each stage receives a cowboy hat. We don't do flowers or stuffed animals, lions.

Greg LeMond, Andy Hampsten, Davis Phinney, and other American gods of cycling are at the podium each day.

Come up with a new name. 'USA Pro Challenge'? Sounds like tv's 'Battle of the Network Stars' competitions of the 70's and 80's.

The President of the United States of America, whether loved in areas of CO or not, is at the podium after Stage 7.

We have podium girls galore. Dust off Cindy Crawford, Christy Turlington, Bridgett Hall, Marisa Miller, Brooklyn Decker, Erin Heatherton, Stephanie Seymour, Tyra Banks, and Kate Upton. They need to be involved.

If they choose not to do this, there is only one other way to change the race, and increase coverage/interest/love/hate: get Lance Armstrong on the starting line.

[gavingould]

anyone remember the show American Gladiators? make it like that.

[chengher87]

Don't know if anyone else saw it, but Tom Danielson got a face full today when some woman flashed him near the end of the climb.

I watched it live-streaming, but did anyone on NBC Sports catch it? They must have edited it out.

[mtb_frk]

Not edited out. I saw it and had to rewind it to make sure I saw it. :)

[pbarry]

I forget why Boulder has been out of this for two years. $$ or politics? The North Boulder crit stage of the Red Zinger/Coors Classic was always a winner. Or a circuit race through downtown Denver for the finale, like the TdF. [Edit: They've got it this year! Yay! Better than a barely watched road race like last year.] I like the Magnolia or Sugarloaf road suggestion too.

With all the short comings, at least it's here. :banana:

[oldpotatoe]

I forget why Boulder has been out of this for two years. $$ or politics? The North Boulder crit stage of the Red Zinger/Coors Classic was always a winner. Or a circuit race through downtown Denver for the finale, like the TdF. [Edit: They've got it this year! Yay! Better than a barely watched road race like last year.] I like the Magnolia or Sugarloaf road suggestion too.

With all the short comings, at least it's here. :banana:

Politics, the 'city fathers' and their team of lawyers made the race coming to the 'republic' that most time consuming exercise of the entire race for the organizers. I heard the 'effort' here was like the 'effort' of the other host cities combined.

Knuckleheads like Steve Pomerance whining about a Flagsstaff finish, type stuff, tromping on the wildflowers and if Granny has a heart attack..trying to get her off.

I'll bet that it never comes back here..

[sjbraun]

[QUOTE=MadRocketSci;1406366]apologies for following up my own post...but this:

[B]Like every other host, 650 of those rooms were used by race organizers and booked at a discounted or even free rate.[/

I've at the race the last two days. Knock the event all you want, but from a spectator's standpoint, it's a great event.

I spent some talking to a race official yesterday. We got into a discussion of logistics. Medalist Sports runs the whole show. Just like th circus, they come to town, set up and disappear after the stage.

He told me that they they're traveling with 1,100 peoplel this year. With the size of the entourage and the money the race draws to the host towns, I suspect that the event will only start and finish in the larger resort venues in future editions.

[#campyuserftw]

As I requested, they could've had their Gavia 88':

http://local.msn.com/colorado-hail-storm-turns-denver-into-dangerous-winter-wonderland

[firerescuefin]

Sagan 4 stage wins (in his sleep)....GC decided with Two stages to go....Velonews roles out an article talking about all the no names on no name teams (just being real) who performed well (pretty much because no one else was there to perform) and another article about the guy that Sagan rolled past in the final finish. Talk about creating news.....:crap:

To those that attended and had a good time. Glad you did...and thanks for supporting the sport.

I am glad the Vuelta is here.

[FlashUNC]

Velonews roles out an article talking about all the no names on no name teams (just being real) who performed well (pretty much because no one else was there to perform) and another article about the guy that Sagan rolled past in the final finish. Talk about creating news.....:crap:



Good to see you're a fan of the domestic race teams, and underdogs in general...

:rolleyes:

[firerescuefin]

Good to see you're a fan of the domestic race teams, and underdogs in general...

:rolleyes:

I am, when they actually perform against real competition...not a carousel of riders dressed in world tour kits. I think you know where I'm coming from.

It's not news when Chris Froome isn't racing, and I beat him to the stop sign..,it's only a race...if the parties are racing.

[FlashUNC]

I am, when they actually perform against real competition...not a carousel of riders dressed in world tour kits. I think you know where I'm coming from.

It's not news when Chris Froome isn't racing, and I beat him to the stop sign..,it's only a race...if the parties are racing.

So Sagan isn't real competition? Van Garderen isn't real competition? Garmin had the bulk of their squad at U.S. Pro trying to put Tommy D onto the top step. It's not the full roster of a Tour de France or a Giro, but comparing U.S. Pro to the Vuelta, the Giro or any Grand Tour is absurd.

The race is on par with Paris-Nice and other weeklong stage races --Eneco Tour, Tour de Pologne -- on the continent? Totally. Those races are constantly filled out with continental teams that I guess we should ignore because it's not real competition?

Never mind that Jamis-Hagens Berman has had a pretty stellar run of the top domestic calendar. Podium at AToC and Tour of Utah, and KOM at US Pro Cycling. If the competition was that soft, you'd think riders like Andreas Kloden and Andy Schleck could have finished in the Top 25. Or I'm sure Andy would have loved to win the KOM on his comeback quest, but he wasn't even in the top 10 for the classification.

I'll agree it ain't the Tour, but it isn't your local Wednesday Night Worlds either.

[firerescuefin]

So Sagan isn't real competition? Van Garderen isn't real competition? Garmin had the bulk of their squad at U.S. Pro trying to put Tommy D onto the top step. It's not the full roster of a Tour de France or a Giro, but comparing U.S. Pro to the Vuelta, the Giro or any Grand Tour is absurd.

The race is on par with Paris-Nice and other weeklong stage races --Eneco Tour, Tour de Pologne -- on the continent? Totally. Those races are constantly filled out with continental teams that I guess we should ignore because it's not real competition?

Never mind that Jamis-Hagens Berman has had a pretty stellar run of the top domestic calendar. Podium at AToC and Tour of Utah, and KOM at US Pro Cycling. If the competition was that soft, you'd think riders like Andreas Kloden and Andy Schleck could have finished in the Top 25. Or I'm sure Andy would have loved to win the KOM on his comeback quest, but he wasn't even in the top 10 for the classification.

I'll agree it ain't the Tour, but it isn't your local Wednesday Night Worlds either.

How much of this race did you watch? ....you found it entertaining?

I did watch...wanted to find it entertaining...and did not.

If they had 10 more sprint finishes...Sagan would win 10.

TJ and Tommy D were there to win...agreed. That combined with a horrible route just didn't make the race for me.

I wish this was treated like PN or Tirreno Adriatico....you comparing the two is laughable. YouTube a few of those stages.

[chengher87]

Never mind that Jamis-Hagens Berman has had a pretty stellar run of the top domestic calendar. Podium at AToC and Tour of Utah, and KOM at US Pro Cycling. If the competition was that soft, you'd think riders like Andreas Kloden and Andy Schleck could have finished in the Top 25. Or I'm sure Andy would have loved to win the KOM on his comeback quest, but he wasn't even in the top 10 for the classification.

I'll agree it ain't the Tour, but it isn't your local Wednesday Night Worlds either.

They were there, but that's not saying much. Most of Team Radioshack was there to fish. Andy Schleck said in interviews and other riders (Van de Velde and even Horner at the Vuelta) suggested that most of the team was there for fishing. Even Froome and Porte were asking Danielson and VDV for the best fishing spots (Schlanger interviewed Porte before the race). Not only that, most of them were using the Pro Challenge as a warm-up for the World Championships, which is why most of them did not take the time to acclimate to the thin air and will spend time after the race to train properly.

Still though, when you only have two stages that had GC implications, there really isn't that much to watch. I wished there was another mountain-top finish because I would have loved to see what Acevado could have done.