OT rant

[10-4]

I bought a new Fiat 500L last month. Love the car.

Went to head to work yesterday and the battery was dead. Thought, "damn, did I leave a dome light on or something?" Messed around for most of the morning buying a battery charger and working from home.

Today went to jump in the car and I'm getting a transmission warning and can't get out of park.

I've spent over an hour trying to get a hold of the service department and am only getting voicemail.

For a car with 400 miles on it, I'm pretty ticked off.

[sparky33]

That's a huge bummer.

Did you drive it into the ocean like they do in the commercial?

[R2D2]

FIAT = Fix It Again Tony.

Sorry you are having trouble.
Been there with a PINTO or maybe it was a VEGA but they both were POS.

[texbike]

Sorry to hear about your issues. Welcome to European brand ownership.

Texbike

[10-4]

That's a huge bummer.

Did you drive it into the ocean like they do in the commercial?

Twice. But the commercial told me I could.

[Gsinill]

Gotta hate those electronic gremlins!
I hope for you that it's a one time thing.
My wife bought an almost new BMW 330i a few years back, I took it to work the next day and on my way home it only ran on 3 cylinders. Had it towed to the next BMW dealer where they replaced the complete wiring harness.
Was fine for another few thousand miles before the exact same thing happened again.
After the 2nd harness replacement (both under warranty) we had no problems until we sold it 5 years later.

Lemonade/limes: better now as long it's still covered.

[10-4]

Gotta hate those electronic gremlins!
I hope for you that it's a one time thing.
My wife bought an almost new BMW 330i a few years back, I took it to work the next day and on my way home it only ran on 3 cylinders. Had it towed to the next BMW dealer where they replaced the complete wiring harness.
Was fine for another few thousand miles before the exact same thing happened again.
After the 2nd harness replacement (both under warranty) we had no problems until we sold it 5 years later.

Lemonade/limes: better now as long it's still covered.

Sucky. I had an S4 before the kids came along that had all sorts of electric issues. There were a short somewhere that would make the lights (brake, headlights, dome lights, everything) flicker all night and kill the battery.

Eventually there was a recall and that was fixed.

Next the fuel injectors would go bad, the car would run on 4 cylinders, super rich, and eventually die. That was recalled and fixed, but only about 6 months after I paid to have it fixed!

I'm not so mad that something is happening on this car, rather that the service department isn't answering.

[texbike]

I'm not so mad that something is happening on this car, rather that the service department isn't answering.

This was one of the issues that killed off Fiat in the U.S. market back in the mid 80s. The dealer network was terrible. Alfa continued on in the U.S. market for another 10ish years but they suffered the same dealer problems.

Texbike

[Gsinill]

Didn't want to make things worse with my thoughts about Made in Italy (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=1387601&postcount=1) (see my comment about Fiat at the bottom) but since others already made similar remarks...
And yes, I do like Campagnolo but the fact that any parts made of steel rust like Alfasuds back in the 80s somehow supports my claim ;)

[Gsinill]

I'm not so mad that something is happening on this car, rather that the service department isn't answering.

Siesta/espresso break or maybe the phone system is Olivetti?

The one on Skokie?

[Jaq]

Fiat: Fix It Again, Tony.


HONDA - Horsepower Option Never Did Appear
DODGE - Drips Oil, Drops Grease Everywhere
JEEP - Just Eats Every Part
PORSCHE - Proof Of Rich Spoiled Children Having Everything
CHEVROLET - Car Has Excessive Valve Rattle On Long Extended Trips
CHEVROLET - Cheap Heap, Every Valve Rattles, Oil Leaks Every Time
SAAB - Swedish Automobile, Always Broken
GMC - Garage Man's Companion
BMW - Big Money Waste
BMW - Break my Window
TOYOTA - The One You Ought To Avoid
BUICK - Butt Ugly Idiotic Crap Kicker
PONTIAC - Poor Old Nut Thinks Its A Cadillac
OLDSMOBILE - Old Ladies Driving Slow Make Others Behind Infuriatingly Late Everyday
ACURA - Asia's Curse Upon Rural America
HYUNDAI - Hope You Understand, Nothing's Driveable And Inexpensive
MOPAR - My Only Problems Are Repairs
PLYMOUTH - Please Leave Your Money Out Under The Hood
FORD - Found On Road Dead
FORD - Fix Or Repair Daily

[sparky33]

Fiat: Fix It Again, Tony.


HONDA - Horsepower Option Never Did Appear
DODGE - Drips Oil, Drops Grease Everywhere
JEEP - Just Eats Every Part
PORSCHE - Proof Of Rich Spoiled Children Having Everything
CHEVROLET - Car Has Excessive Valve Rattle On Long Extended Trips
CHEVROLET - Cheap Heap, Every Valve Rattles, Oil Leaks Every Time
SAAB - Swedish Automobile, Always Broken
GMC - Garage Man's Companion
BMW - Big Money Waste
BMW - Break my Window
TOYOTA - The One You Ought To Avoid
BUICK - Butt Ugly Idiotic Crap Kicker
PONTIAC - Poor Old Nut Thinks Its A Cadillac
OLDSMOBILE - Old Ladies Driving Slow Make Others Behind Infuriatingly Late Everyday
ACURA - Asia's Curse Upon Rural America
HYUNDAI - Hope You Understand, Nothing's Driveable And Inexpensive
MOPAR - My Only Problems Are Repairs
PLYMOUTH - Please Leave Your Money Out Under The Hood
FORD - Found On Road Dead
FORD - Fix Or Repair Daily

Is my Subaru flawless?

[echelon_john]

Spoiled University Brats And Rural Underachievers?

[fiamme red]

Is my Subaru flawless?Screwed Up Beyond All Repair Usually

[echelon_john]

Severely Underperforming But Alas Remain Ubiquitous

[sparky33]

Severely Underperforming But Alas Remain Ubiquitous

Yep. That pretty much sums it up.

[toytech]

That's why mechanics drive Toyotas :cool:

[rice rocket]

Sorry to hear about your issues. Welcome to European brand ownership.

Texbike

It's built in Mexico by Chrysler, which may be worse.

[10-4]

It's built in Mexico by Chrysler, which may be worse.

Oddly, I've owned about 5-6 Jeeps and literally can't think of one issue while I owned them. I'm sure there was something, but can't remember one service call outside of routine maintenance.

Also, I own a Durango with 250k+ miles, still going strong.

Whoa. I can't believe I'm complimenting a US-based manufacturer on reliability.

Of course, I also own a Fit and an Insight which have both been flawless for 3+ years each.

[10-4]

Sorry to hear about your issues. Welcome to European brand ownership.

Texbike

Nope, nothing new in this household.....

[AngryScientist]

i have found with european cars in general, that you get a good one, or you get a bad one, and you're stuck with either for the life of the car. from my engineering background, that doesnt seem to make sense, but reality tells me its true. there are lots of people who drive vw and bmw for 200+ thousand miles with zero issues, and some who cant make it past 1000 mile intervals without something breaking.

sounds like your fiat was built on a friday. sucks.

[texbike]

Nope, nothing new in this household.....

Same here. My 3 series took me down to Houston a couple of weeks ago. I left it with a hotel valet to park while I went inside to check in. It wouldn't start for the valet and we had to pop the clutch to move the car. I rented a car to do appts the next day and then had to pop the clutch again on the BMW to get back to Austin and to our preferred shop. After checking the battery, it turned out to be the starter. It hadn't shown any signs of issues before then. Extremely frustrating.

Looking back over 25 plus years of driving, I can't remember a single time that I've had to replace a starter in one of the Japanese brands that we've owned. In this day and age, why can't the Europeans make vehicles as reliable as the Japanese?

Texbike

[Likes2ridefar]

I bought a new Fiat 500L last month. Love the car.

Went to head to work yesterday and the battery was dead. Thought, "damn, did I leave a dome light on or something?" Messed around for most of the morning buying a battery charger and working from home.

Today went to jump in the car and I'm getting a transmission warning and can't get out of park.

I've spent over an hour trying to get a hold of the service department and am only getting voicemail.

For a car with 400 miles on it, I'm pretty ticked off.

I read a mostly negative review for that car on NYtimes yesterday. It mentioned the car is made in the former Yugo plant in Serbia.

"With 42 percent more interior room than the standard 500, the L’s cargo-hauling ability is about its only winning feature."

I've seen a few of the other model around NYC with various lights out. Seems odd for such a new car

[Aaron O]

It's car purchase time and I've been leaning Subaru...this thread is the first negative thing I've ever heard about them.

I'm actually tempted just to get a Focus...if something breaks, at least it's usually cheap and easy to find a junk yard replacement.

[gavingould]

10-4, should've gotten another Honda!
too bad they don't make Elements any more, but i'd think a CR-V would do pretty well for your family.

actually i'm REALLY surprised you didn't go for a TDIwagen. though if i were in the market now, i'd wait for the next version which looks to have improved the rear seat legroom.

[cmbicycles]

Fiat: Fix It Again, Tony.


HONDA - Horsepower Option Never Did Appear
DODGE - Drips Oil, Drops Grease Everywhere
JEEP - Just Eats Every Part
PORSCHE - Proof Of Rich Spoiled Children Having Everything
CHEVROLET - Car Has Excessive Valve Rattle On Long Extended Trips
CHEVROLET - Cheap Heap, Every Valve Rattles, Oil Leaks Every Time
SAAB - Swedish Automobile, Always Broken
GMC - Garage Man's Companion
BMW - Big Money Waste
BMW - Break my Window
TOYOTA - The One You Ought To Avoid
BUICK - Butt Ugly Idiotic Crap Kicker
PONTIAC - Poor Old Nut Thinks Its A Cadillac
OLDSMOBILE - Old Ladies Driving Slow Make Others Behind Infuriatingly Late Everyday
ACURA - Asia's Curse Upon Rural America
HYUNDAI - Hope You Understand, Nothing's Driveable And Inexpensive
MOPAR - My Only Problems Are Repairs
PLYMOUTH - Please Leave Your Money Out Under The Hood
FORD - Found On Road Dead
FORD - Fix Or Repair Daily

Honda- Had One, Never Did Again
BMW- Bavarian Manure Wagon

[Ralph]

You cannot judge current Fiats by Fiats of the past. They make reliable cars and sell construction and ag equipment all over the world. They own most of Chrysler, and currently supply the diesel engines for Grand Cherokee and Ram 1500 pickup. They own Lancer, Ferrari, and Alfa Romero, etc. So it's not like they don't know how to make cars. You bought a good small car. Too small for me, but still a good car in it's price and size range. Some say more car for the money than a Mini.

Battery probably just bad. The battery was probably made a long time before car was manufactured. Don't understand why service dept on voice mail. I would call main dealership number, and speak to someone in charge.

Just had daughters 2012 Honda CRV battery go bad.....year old car.....stuff just happens.

[Ken Robb]

My neighbor's 18 month-old Buick just had the battery/electrical system die. It's a hybrid too. Good thing it is under warranty.

[norcalbiker]

FIAT = Fix It Again Tony.

I used to say this a lot when I had a Spider. LOL

Now I drive a

F ooker
O nly
R un
D ownhill

[10-4]

10-4, should've gotten another Honda!
too bad they don't make Elements any more, but i'd think a CR-V would do pretty well for your family.

actually i'm REALLY surprised you didn't go for a TDIwagen. though if i were in the market now, i'd wait for the next version which looks to have improved the rear seat legroom.

I get an Employee Deal on Fiat, so it really was a solid deal. All in, it was more than $10k less than what I would have paid for the TDI wagon, which we looked at.

With the kids seats in the back, headroom (and having them up higher to put them into the seats) was a big one for me.

[10-4]

You cannot judge current Fiats by Fiats of the past. They make reliable cars and sell construction and ag equipment all over the world. They own most of Chrysler, and currently supply the diesel engines for Grand Cherokee and Ram 1500 pickup. They own Lancer, Ferrari, and Alfa Romero, etc. So it's not like they don't know how to make cars. You bought a good small car. Too small for me, but still a good car in it's price and size range. Some say more car for the money than a Mini.

Battery probably just bad. The battery was probably made a long time before car was manufactured. Don't understand why service dept on voice mail. I would call main dealership number, and speak to someone in charge.

Just had daughters 2012 Honda CRV battery go bad.....year old car.....stuff just happens.


WAAAAY more car for the money than Mini. I looked at the 4-door Mini, comparably equipped would have been $8k more than what I paid for my 500L.

Service guys finally called back about an hour later and immediately sent someone over to try to fix it and leave a loaner. Of course, he couldn't fix it, so now it's getting towed back today. The service guy left me an Abarth to play with over the weekend. Luckily we have a second car that will hold the kids.

[bthornt]

I owned a 1978 FIAT 128, bought new from Newman Imports in CT. I believe that they are now out of business. It had a tendency to let me down at the most inopportune moments. I got rid of it by trading it in at a Nissan dealership for a pickup truck. They offered me $200, which may not seem like much but was vastly more than this car was worth. I was scheduled to pick up the Nissan the next day, and the FIAT broke down on the way to the dealership. They cut the trade-in value to $100, and it was still more than it was worth.

It was a well-designed car, so I suppose it was the execution of the design that was the problem. Hopefully, they have increased their reliability and quality control and you will have a good car.

[oldpotatoe]

Sorry to hear about your issues. Welcome to European brand ownership.

Texbike

Had a 2004 Ford Ranger..only 30,000 miles, sold it this year and I had electrical problems with it for the entire time I had it..various Check engine, check fuel cap, off, on, never did solve them so it's not just .........

Have a 14 year old Beetle..except for headlights that don't last very long, no issues at all so....it just depends.

Isn't Fiat for the US made in the US?

Both the Ford and VW were 'Hecho en Mexico'...

[echelon_john]

Just bought a new (to me) car--Saab 9-3 Sportcombi. My old car (for sale!) is a Mercedes E320 4matic wagon. I love the ride and space of the M-B, but talk about gremlins! The thing will throw a code if you look at it funny, and there are certain issues that nobody--me, the dealer, my independent garage--has been able to fix in the 6 years I've owned it. Bulb faults, ABS faults, Airbag faults...unbelievable.

If it weren't so comfortable and great on the highway I would have sold it long ago; as it is, the Saab fell into my lap, it's a stick/6sp, which I've missed, and in perfect shape.

Rented a Ford C-Max diesel in Europe for a couple of weeks; what an awesome car that is. Good transmission, loads of torque, fast enough, REALLY roomy. Great bike vehicle...

[Jaq]

i have found with european cars in general, that you get a good one, or you get a bad one, and you're stuck with either for the life of the car. from my engineering background, that doesnt seem to make sense, but reality tells me its true. there are lots of people who drive vw and bmw for 200+ thousand miles with zero issues, and some who cant make it past 1000 mile intervals without something breaking.

sounds like your fiat was built on a friday. sucks.

205,000 miles on my '87 VW Jetta. Needs a little TLC now and again, but otherwise runs like a top. Bought it new, swore I'd "drive it to the moon" before I got rid of it.

20,000 miles to go.

[zap]

My old car (for sale!) is a Mercedes E320 4matic wagon. I love the ride and space of the M-B, but talk about gremlins! The thing will throw a code if you look at it funny, and there are certain issues that nobody--me, the dealer, my independent garage--has been able to fix in the 6 years I've owned it. Bulb faults, ABS faults, Airbag faults...unbelievable.



By any chance a 210 e class.

[Ken Robb]

My neighbor's Buick hybrid just needed a new battery and all seems well. The propulsion battery was fine-------they think.

[merlinmurph]

You cannot judge current Fiats by Fiats of the past.

I sure hope that's true. I used to say that you never saw a 10-year-old Fiat - never. Too bad, because the 128 Sport Spyder and the 124 sedan were nice cars. In New England anyway, they would just disintegrate from the winters.

[echelon_john]

Yep. 2003 4matic wagon; last year of w210.

By any chance a 210 e class.

[Liv2RideHard]

You cannot judge current Fiats by Fiats of the past. They make reliable cars and sell construction and ag equipment all over the world. They own most of Chrysler, and currently supply the diesel engines for Grand Cherokee and Ram 1500 pickup. They own Lancer, Ferrari, and Alfa Romero, etc. So it's not like they don't know how to make cars. You bought a good small car. Too small for me, but still a good car in it's price and size range. Some say more car for the money than a Mini.

Battery probably just bad. The battery was probably made a long time before car was manufactured. Don't understand why service dept on voice mail. I would call main dealership number, and speak to someone in charge.

Just had daughters 2012 Honda CRV battery go bad.....year old car.....stuff just happens.

This. $hit happens. Sometimes we cannot explain it. Batteries do go bad. Like Ralph said.

WAAAAY more car for the money than Mini. I looked at the 4-door Mini, comparably equipped would have been $8k more than what I paid for my 500L.

Service guys finally called back about an hour later and immediately sent someone over to try to fix it and leave a loaner. Of course, he couldn't fix it, so now it's getting towed back today. The service guy left me an Abarth to play with over the weekend. Luckily we have a second car that will hold the kids.

When I call my service dept. (which is very rarely), I sometimes get VM. Not unusual. Those guys and gals are extremely busy. They will make it right. My neighbor works for Chrysler. He was driving a 500 before dealers could get them. He was training all the area techs on them ahead of their release. He is a total petrol head and can take the car apart down to the frame and rebuild it as new. Says they are solid vehicles. No major/catastrophic complaints coming in from current owners. He gets all the service data on North American product. You got a good car. At least you got an Abarth to play with...

[SoCalSteve]

Sorry to hear about your issues. Welcome to European brand ownership.

Texbike

That's really funny!!!

So, all BMW's, MBZ's, Porsche and VW's are lousy cuz a Fiat had a battery issue? Interesting stereotype...:confused:

[rice rocket]

That's really funny!!!

So, all BMW's, MBZ's, Porsche and VW's are lousy cuz a Fiat had a battery issue? Interesting stereotype...:confused:

You missed the part about the transmission problem and not being able to get out of park.

Hopefully it's just an isolated incident with a part that didn't pass QC that shouldn't have been installed in the first place.

[SoCalSteve]

You missed the part about the transmission problem and not being able to get out of park.

Hopefully it's just an isolated incident with a part that didn't pass QC that shouldn't have been installed in the first place.

Or the two issues are related...

[texbike]

That's really funny!!!

So, all BMW's, MBZ's, Porsche and VW's are lousy cuz a Fiat had a battery issue? Interesting stereotype...:confused:

Actually my statement would be based off the OPs experience combined with my 20 plus years of experience of owning a WIDE mix of European cars with the icing of knowing the experiences of my friends and family members that have owned European brands as well.

Not a stereotype at all. Given my personal base of reference, I would say (without empirical evidence) that the European brands are less reliable than Japanese brands. Consumer Reports and other consumer automotive publications tend to support my position as well.

Texbike

[AngryScientist]

I've got it! A real fiat shouldnt have a "park" feature :banana:

[SoCalSteve]

Actually my statement would be based off the OPs experience combined with my 20 plus years of experience of owning a WIDE mix of European cars with the icing of knowing the experiences of my friends and family members that have owned European brands as well.

Not a stereotype at all. Given my personal base of reference, I would say (without empirical evidence) that the European brands are less reliable than Japanese brands. Consumer Reports and other consumer automotive publications tend to support my position as well.

Texbike

My personal experience:

Since the late 80's I've owned 3 x 5 Series BMW's, 1 x 7 Series BMW, 1 VW Touareg, 1 Porsche 911 and an Audi A7...

They have all been extremely reliable vehicles. Some maintenance costs are probably a bit higher than an American or Japanese vehicle, but you aren't talking apples to apples now, are you?

I would never buy an American or Japanese vehicle. They just aren't built nearly as well as their European counterparts.

So, that's why I am a bit confused by the stereotype. My personal experience doesn't validate any of that.

[Scuzzer]

Or the two issues are related...

Ummm yea, I think so. When the battery is on its way out on our old BMW the transmission goes into limp mode. The first time it happened I was thinking it was going to cost a bundle to fix but after finding out what it was I thought of it as an advance battery failure feature.

[zap]

Actually my statement would be based off the OPs experience combined with my 20 plus years of experience of owning a WIDE mix of European cars with the icing of knowing the experiences of my friends and family members that have owned European brands as well.



In the last 5-7 years the best in initial reliability.

Porsche
Lexus
Toyota
Mercedes


But yes, BMW, Audi and VW typically have interesting little problems and rank low. Looked at a new VW the other day......what a joke (fit and finish). Those Germans in TN must be smoking some wild local products.....and used to work at MB 12-15 years ago.

[SoCalSteve]

Ummm yea, I think so. When the battery is on its way out on our old BMW the transmission goes into limp mode. The first time it happened I was thinking it was going to cost a bundle to fix but after finding out what it was I thought of it as an advance battery failure feature.

I spoke from personal experience as well, when my 911 would lose total battery power, it would mess with the computer controlled suspension system. It would come back after putting power to it again and driving it to reset the computers.

[SoCalSteve]

In the last 5-7 years the best in initial reliability.

Porsche
Lexus
Toyota
Mercedes


But yes, BMW, Audi and VW typically have interesting little problems and rank low. Looked at a new VW the other day......what a joke (fit and finish). Those Germans in TN must be smoking some wild local products.....and used to work at MB 12-15 years ago.

Funny, my 2004 VW Touareg was built like a fricken tank! Fit and finish beyond compare. Never an issue with beyond the high cost of maintenance...but, it was built in Europe, not the US. Guess that kind of proves my point again.

[pbarry]

To the OP: If you didn't: When you need to charge the battery again, disconnect both of the car's battery cables. Have seen glitches appear on late-1990's and newer vehicles when charging with battery cables connected.

[HenryA]

In the faint mists of time long ago I owned a Fiat 124 Sport Coupe. It was one of the most fun cars I ever owned. The electrics on it were pretty simple - when the lights blinked out at night I just kneed the dashboard real hard and they'd come back on. Sometimes it took a couple of tries to get them on. Made for some interesting driving. And like other things that can't be fixed, the electrics just went the way of the car, deteriorating quickly like a rotting fish.

Also around that time I was exposed to Ducatis at the M/C shop where I worked during school. While we joked about "Lucas, the Prince of darkness" with the British bike owners, there was no joking about the Marelli electrics on the Ducatis. There were some things thought too tender by even a smart ass college kid to joke about.

But I'm sure that now-a-days both brands have good reliable electrics and even start and run on command.

[toytech]

My earlier quote about mechanics driving Toyota still stands. As far as experience, I have been a mechanic for 30 years which gives me a little frame of reference :D In those years via various used car departments I have found that without fail the European cars are waaaay more likely to need tons of reconditioning enough that many more get sent to auction for the little lots to play with. The American cars used to be even worse, now they tend to be in equal or better shape than the European cars. The Japanese cars are considerably in better shape. The difference is not so much when new but 4 years or more down the line that you start to see the glaring differences.
Front suspension needing an overhaul at only 60k is common on BMW for instance and unheard of on a Toyota or Lexus.
Korean cars have come a long way too but still lag behind the big three.
ymmv :banana::banana::banana:
That being said, the Euros are more fun mostly.

[pbarry]

^^ Nailed it.

[Climb01742]

Yep. 2003 4matic wagon; last year of w210.

Aren't the final year of a model's run usually the 'best' years, when they have all the kinks worked out? What a drag you've had such bad luck. MB wagons are pretty high on my wish list...used, of course.;)

[echelon_john]

one would think so!

like i said, i love how it drives; 4matic is every bit as good in the snow as my Outback was; decent mileage (26ish) for the engine size. i actually just had a body shop take care of all the little rust spots and everything. it also has a brand new alternator and a bunch of other stuff. i'm just kind of done with it.

let me know if you want it!





Aren't the final year of a model's run usually the 'best' years, when they have all the kinks worked out? What a drag you've had such bad luck. MB wagons are pretty high on my wish list...used, of course.;)

[regularguy412]

In the faint mists of time long ago I owned a Fiat 124 Sport Coupe. It was one of the most fun cars I ever owned. The electrics on it were pretty simple - when the lights blinked out at night I just kneed the dashboard real hard and they'd come back on. Sometimes it took a couple of tries to get them on. Made for some interesting driving. And like other things that can't be fixed, the electrics just went the way of the car, deteriorating quickly like a rotting fish.

Also around that time I was exposed to Ducatis at the M/C shop where I worked during school. While we joked about "Lucas, the Prince of darkness" with the British bike owners, there was no joking about the Marelli electrics on the Ducatis. There were some things thought too tender by even a smart ass college kid to joke about.

But I'm sure that now-a-days both brands have good reliable electrics and even start and run on command.

Didn't Lucas also do lighting for the now infamous MG which had numerous electrical glitches,, as well as for Jaguar (just to name a couple)?

Mike in AR:beer:

[Louis]

I've already owned one Italian car ('87 Alfa Spider). It was way cool, and way sexy, but I have no interest in owning another Italian car. (unless it comes with Catrinel Menghia)

[rounder]

Audis here. My only issue has to do with oil consumption. Have a 2001 A4 1,8T that burns no oil. My daily driver is a 2011 A4 2.0T that now goes through a quart at 1,600 miles. The manual says that .5 quart at 600 miles is normal.. The stainless steel exhaust tips were totally black soon after I bought the car. The car is fine in all other ways...just don't get the oil consumption.

I checked the Internet and it sounds like wear out of piston rings.

I know that this is essentially a bicycle forum, but realize that there are many engineering types here and others who are multitalented. Also realize that this does not have anything to do with the OP concerns. Thanks.

[sparky33]

Had a BMW X3 that ran like a champ until year 7. Calamity! The final straw was when the seat heater ignited and burned a hole in my pants. Took me a second to realize the smoke was coming from my backside....I brought the pants to the dealer as an exhibit in our negotiation of the free seat replacement - hilarity.

[zap]

Funny, my 2004 VW Touareg was built like a fricken tank! Fit and finish beyond compare. Never an issue with beyond the high cost of maintenance...but, it was built in Europe, not the US. Guess that kind of proves my point again.

The VW's I looked at were Jetta's.

I'm liking the Golf GTI.....built in Germany. I understand the new mk7 for NA will be built in Mexico :eek:

[rice rocket]

The VW's I looked at were Jetta's.

I'm liking the Golf GTI.....built in Germany. I understand the new mk7 for NA will be built in Mexico :eek:

They've been making Golfs in Mexico since the 80s.

[HenryA]

Didn't Lucas also do lighting for the now infamous MG which had numerous electrical glitches,, as well as for Jaguar (just to name a couple)?

Mike in AR:beer:

Oh yeah...
Notorious indeed.

[zap]

They've been making Golfs in Mexico since the 80s.

That might be true but I wouldn't touch those.

Golf Gti i test drove last year and a buddies tdi (purchased 3 months ago ) have made in germany stickers on them. Nice cars that make you wonder why anyone would purchase anything else in its class.

[10-4]

In case anyone is wondering, my Fiat is still at the dealership. I was told Friday that the ETA on a new shifter for my car is "October".

Awesome.

I've owned the card for 7 weeks, 3 of which have been on lock down, not able to get the car out of park, and stuck at the dealer.

[54ny77]

fiat problems? no way! what's old is new again!

(cool lookin' little cars though.)

[Shortsocks]

I'm on my 2nd Nissan Leaf. 100% electric. Haven't bought a DROP of gas in almost three years. And I've had ZERO problems. No maintenance, oil changes, or anything. LOVE it. And it's 80% recycled. :eek:

Oh. Nissan gives me a free Gas powered rent-a-car for 3 weeks of the year so the Mrs's and I can take longer road trips, usually to Santa Fe, or Colorado...free gas on pickup and drop off.

My car and bike get the same milage.

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j323/prelude97si/d053c35acda64341679fb02aea8c099a.jpg

[gavingould]

I think I'd be pressuring the dealer for a new vehicle that you can drive off the lot TODAY. Wait another month? That's ridiculous... dealer can figure out what to do with the car you barely got to use after they wait and fix it, but you should get a replacement.

[10-4]

I think I'd be pressuring the dealer for a new vehicle that you can drive off the lot TODAY. Wait another month? That's ridiculous... dealer can figure out what to do with the car you barely got to use after they wait and fix it, but you should get a replacement.

I was told this by the sales manager because the service manager is dodging me now.

Come Tuesday, when everyone is back at the dealership, I'm no longer wasting my time on the phone. I'm going to show up at the dealership and get this sorted out. There are 25 other 500L's on the lot that all have shifters in them. If they aren't willing to pull a shifter from a car I'm not willing to stay calm.

It's time they figure this out.

[10-4]

I'm on my 2nd Nissan Leaf. 100% electric. Haven't bought a DROP of gas in almost three years. And I've had ZERO problems. No maintenance, oil changes, or anything. LOVE it. And it's 80% recycled. :eek:

Oh. Nissan gives me a free Gas powered rent-a-car for 3 weeks of the year so the Mrs's and I can take longer road trips, usually to Santa Fe, or Colorado...free gas on pickup and drop off.

My car and bike get the same milage.


The Leaf is cool, but out of my price range.

[William]

The Top 10 cars mechanics hate most!:)
http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp?section=top&story=cartalk-cars-we-hate&subject=more







William

[verticaldoug]

I'm on my 2nd Nissan Leaf. 100% electric. Haven't bought a DROP of gas in almost three years. And I've had ZERO problems. No maintenance, oil changes, or anything. LOVE it. And it's 80% recycled. :eek:

Oh. Nissan gives me a free Gas powered rent-a-car for 3 weeks of the year so the Mrs's and I can take longer road trips, usually to Santa Fe, or Colorado...free gas on pickup and drop off.

My car and bike get the same milage.

http://i1080.photobucket.com/albums/j323/prelude97si/d053c35acda64341679fb02aea8c099a.jpg

Technically not true. MPGe is 106 for the leaf. It still uses external energy. Payback at $5/gallion is about 5 years. Why are you on the second one?

I am willing to bet that over 3 years the total carbon footprint savings for the car vs a normal high mileage economy car is not significant. It's the dirty little secret.

[Anarchist]

I have not read past the first page of this but the horror stories about "European" cars are so easy, and predictable.

But they happen with any car. I bought a Chrysler Town and Country van.

It started going wrong from pretty much the first day. It would frequently and randomly slam down into "limp" mode. On the highway all of a sudden the dashboard lights up, the car throws down into second gear and your doing 20 miles an hour. Nice.

The windshield washers would randomly start up, go a couple of times then shut down.

Transmission went 3 times in the first 3 years.

Chrysler NA were sending people out to examine the car and try to figure it out, they never did.

We owned it 4 years, it spent more time in the garage than at my house and eventually solved our problem with it by catching fire and burning to the ground.

I was glad it was gone.

Yeah, Fiat's are terrible.

[malcolm]

wife has driven almost exclusively Porsche 911s for well over a decade and I can't recall a problem with any of them. Gas, tires and oil. I think one required a clutch that wasn't cheap, but that has been it.
Between my cars and family cars we have owned a bunch of different makes and models. Worst I can recall was a mazda 5 mini van, constant brake problems and a host of piddling problems like gas caps breaking, etc.. Current family ride is a ford flex that other than being woefully underpowered has delivered a trouble free 50k miles.

[Shortsocks]

Technically not true. MPGe is 106 for the leaf. It still uses external energy. Payback at $5/gallion is about 5 years. Why are you on the second one?

I am willing to bet that over 3 years the total carbon footprint for the car vs a normal high mileage economy car is not significant. It's the dirty little secret.

I should be a little more specific. I get 83 miles to a charge, not 100.

Lol. 70 cents per 83 mile charge. 8000 tax credit on signing. Oh. And I pay $219 a month for a 24 month lease.

THAT'S why I'm on my 2nd one. So in 3 years $16,000 worth of Tax Credits, and
I pay 70 Cents per 83 miles...oh I also use green mountain.
http://www.greenmountain.com/why-green-mountain
So that limits my carbon footprint for charging. As well as no oil or gasoline used at all.

Those are just MY numbers. Don't know about anyone's else's numbers. But I've payed $7,665 (in lease payments) in 35 months. NOT including the $16,000 in tax credits.

The way I've added it up is at 13,000 miles a year for the time I've owned my leaf at $3.25 a gallon (not premium) I've saved $4,798. That's 37,000 in close to three years. So at 70 cents that's $312. In total savings I'm at $4,486 in savings. NOT including Oil changes which I'd need almost 6 In close to the 3 years which is $150 bucks at $25 an oil change.....

THATS why I bought a 2nd leaf.

Ride safe.

[bcm119]

Fiat: Fix It Again, Tony.


HONDA - Horsepower Option Never Did Appear
DODGE - Drips Oil, Drops Grease Everywhere
JEEP - Just Eats Every Part
PORSCHE - Proof Of Rich Spoiled Children Having Everything
CHEVROLET - Car Has Excessive Valve Rattle On Long Extended Trips
CHEVROLET - Cheap Heap, Every Valve Rattles, Oil Leaks Every Time
SAAB - Swedish Automobile, Always Broken
GMC - Garage Man's Companion
BMW - Big Money Waste
BMW - Break my Window
TOYOTA - The One You Ought To Avoid
BUICK - Butt Ugly Idiotic Crap Kicker
PONTIAC - Poor Old Nut Thinks Its A Cadillac
OLDSMOBILE - Old Ladies Driving Slow Make Others Behind Infuriatingly Late Everyday
ACURA - Asia's Curse Upon Rural America
HYUNDAI - Hope You Understand, Nothing's Driveable And Inexpensive
MOPAR - My Only Problems Are Repairs
PLYMOUTH - Please Leave Your Money Out Under The Hood
FORD - Found On Road Dead
FORD - Fix Or Repair Daily

What about MAZDA?

[echelon_john]

Mediocre, Asthmatic "Zoom Doom" Automobile?

What about MAZDA?

[verticaldoug]

I should be a little more specific. I get 83 miles to a charge, not 100.

Lol. 70 cents per 83 mile charge. 8000 tax credit on signing. Oh. And I pay $219 a month for a 24 month lease.

THAT'S why I'm on my 2nd one. So in 3 years $16,000 worth of Tax Credits, and
I pay 70 Cents per 83 miles...oh I also use green mountain.
http://www.greenmountain.com/why-green-mountain
So that limits my carbon footprint for charging. As well as no oil or gasoline used at all.

Those are just MY numbers. Don't know about anyone's else's numbers. But I've payed $7,665 (in lease payments) in 35 months. NOT including the $16,000 in tax credits.

The way I've added it up is at 13,000 miles a year for the time I've owned my leaf at $3.25 a gallon (not premium) I've saved $4,798. That's 37,000 in close to three years. So at 70 cents that's $312. In total savings I'm at $4,486 in savings. NOT including Oil changes which I'd need almost 6 In close to the 3 years which is $150 bucks at $25 an oil change.....

THATS why I bought a 2nd leaf.

Ride safe.

The fact that you are trying is good, but don't under estimate the embodied carbon footprint in the new technology. The embodied carbon footprint (assembly plant 12%, mineral extraction 33%, rubber production 3%, shipping etc etc) are very large - 17 tons for ford mondeo, 35 tons for land cruiser. With the increase metal use for batteries in the electric car, the carbon cost is pretty high. Obviously, the auto companies don't discuss this. When BMW highlights the sustainability at their plant for the BMWi, they only discuss the assembly (50% savings, but this is less than 12% of the overall carbon cost.)

Even your 100% green energy, has a cost. I think the germans calculate green energy as actually saving about 50% in carbon cost on the grid. The increase complexity comes with high upfront carbon costs.

You can argue the tax credits and green energy subsidies are actually a shift in carbon costs vs the overall U.S. GDP.

It is easy to shift carbon usage and feel good about it, but is very hard to reduce if you look at the entire system. The real solution is to consume less. That's why the irony about the second car.

[Shortsocks]

I agree. We ALL need to consume much less. As individuals and Familes. I try every which way I can to cut my consumption, materially and energy wise. Hell. I generally put more or the same miles on my bike than car a year.

It is very sad that the infrastructure used to limit carbon usage in this country sometimes costs more than the original problems...I.E natural gas is cheaper than solar....

I find it helpful that the state gives tax deductions to individuals to try new forms of transport or energy, but examples. Like where I live in Texas. They make very little consessions toward green anything.

I agree 100% we need to consume much much less. There is an overabumdence of WANT in this country.

[Walter]

It ain't as simple as it may seem: http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/renewables/unclean-at-any-speed

[10-4]

Just in case anyone is still following along, I still don't have my car. The dealer called yesterday and told me that Fiat has offered to make my car payments starting the day the car was taken in until I get it back.

I was finally given another 500L to drive in the mean time while we wait......

[Louis]

Just in case anyone is still following along, I still don't have my car. The dealer called yesterday and told me that Fiat has offered to make my car payments starting the day the car was taken in until I get it back.

I was finally given another 500L to drive in the mean time while we wait......

Want to buy my '97 Acura? The wheel bearings need to be replaced soon (after 262,xxx miles) but other than that, it's in good shape... ;)

[markie]

How much more before it is a "lemon"?

[William]

How much more before it is a "lemon"?


Speaking of that...

LEMON LAW

Things You Should Know About...LEMON LAW

Has this ever happened to you...You buy a brand new car. But instead of hitting the open road in your new "dream machine," the vehicle is spending all of its time and your money at your local auto repair shop. If so, Illinois' Lemon Law may be able to help.

Is My Vehicle a Lemon?
In order to be covered by the Illinois Lemon Law, a vehicle must:

have a nonconformity that both substantially impairs the use , market value or safety of the vehicle and is not repairable by the dealer or manufacturer in at least four attempts for the same repair, or

be out of service for a total of 30 or more business days.

The Lemon Law DOES Cover: New Cars (purchased or leased)
Light Trucks and vans under 8,000 pounds
Recreational vehicles (excluding trailers)
Vehicles in their first 12 months or 12,000 miles, whichever occurs first
Vehicles purchased in Illinois

The Lemon Law DOES NOT Cover: Used Cars
Altered or modified vehicles
Motorcycles and boats

How Does the Lemon Law Work?
Manufacturers establish an Industry Third Party Dispute Resolution Program to evaluate your claim. You can find information about this program in your vehicle ownership manual. To initiate action under the Lemon Law, contact the designated manufacturer representative for your vehicle. This representative will forward the required information and forms to you.

Preserving Your Claim
Lemon Law claims cannot be initiated directly through the dealer. Many consumers have lost their Lemon Law remedy because they waited longer than 12 months from the purchase date, the time period in which Lemon Law complaints must be filed, all the while believing they were proceeding under the Lemon Law through their dealer.

Keep in mind - it is extremely important that you file with your designated representative before your right to do so has expired!

Winning Your Claim

If the Dispute Board rules in your favor, you can expect one of the following compensations:

you will receive a replacement vehicle of like or similar value.

the manufacturer will buy your vehicle back from you, less the value for miles driven.

If you are dissatisfied with the decision of the Dispute Board, you may bring a civil action to enforce your rights under this Act. The manufacturer, however, may not dispute the board's decision.....

http://www.illinoisattorneygeneral.gov/consumers/lemonlaw.html



Check out the Lemon Laws in your state if you haven't done so already.

Best of luck!
William

[markie]

So 10-4 you at thirty days yet?

If you are it is probably time to get your money back (and buy a MINI :hello:)

[cp43]

Want to buy my '97 Acura? The wheel bearings need to be replaced soon (after 262,xxx miles) but other than that, it's in good shape... ;)

If you're not a Honda/Acura guy, you can buy my Corolla ;) It's 5 years older, but it's only got 159,xxx miles. Wheel bearings still good.

Jokes aside, I hope you get all this worked out.

Good luck.

Chris

[Louis]

Chris, have you seen this story in the NYT? Link Here (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/08/automobiles/collectibles/one-mans-toyota-rescue-mission.html?smid=pl-share)

[slidey]

Remarkable that this saga is still on-going. I too would urge you to look into the lemon laws, and see if something can be done about getting rid of such a disastrous specimen with little or no loss to you.

Good luck!

[10-4]

Unfortunately not at 30 BUSINESS days yet. Of course, that's the tough part here. With Labor day thrown in, and only Monday-Friday counting, we're at about 20 business days as of today. That means they have 2 more weeks!

[cp43]

Chris, have you seen this story in the NYT? Link Here (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/08/automobiles/collectibles/one-mans-toyota-rescue-mission.html?smid=pl-share)

I had not, very cool article.

Thanks,

Chris

[GT2R]

It is good that Fiat has returned to the USA as competition is always a good thing; however, one of the biggest issues upon returning or significantly increasing your presence overseas is parts for service. Not only a new product with as yet unknown issues but also poor infrastructure to support customers.

Hopefully Fiat is able to expedite the process and get you rolling soon. It kinda takes the fun out of new car ownership.

[10-4]

It is good that Fiat has returned to the USA as competition is always a good thing; however, one of the biggest issues upon returning or significantly increasing your presence overseas is parts for service. Not only a new product with as yet unknown issues but also poor infrastructure to support customers.

Hopefully Fiat is able to expedite the process and get you rolling soon. It kinda takes the fun out of new car ownership.

Speaking of which, I got the call at 4:45 yesterday my car would be ready for pickup today. We'll see if that holds true. I think they realized how close they were getting to the 30-day lemon law....

[10-4]

I don't know if anyone is still wondering, but I picked up my car late last night. While it was in, the service department offered to do the Cilajet Fab treatment:

"Cilajet FAB: Cilajet also offers the ultimate protection for the interior of your vehicle from spills, spots and stains. The Cilajet fabric protector can be professionally applied to the interior of your automobile, including the carpet, mats, and fabric seats to protect from coffee, mud and other accidents. It is non-hazardous, hypoallergenic, environmentally friendly, and 0% VOC (Volatile Organic Compound), which means there are no chemicals released into the atmosphere."

This morning when I jumped in the car in the day light, I noticed blotches and streaks all over my interior. Every seating surface, the arm rests, everywhere. The cloth is a medium-gray, and the blotches are everywhere.

I didn't mention anything to my wife, and when she got in she also immediately noticed the marks.

We've taken a bunch of photos and notified the service department, but they are closed.

Anyone care to see them? Hopefully I can either be told to chill out and pretend they aren't there or be told I have good reason to be pissed.

By the way, the car has 520 miles on it at this point.....

[slidey]

You have way more patience than I can ever hope to have. If it did get to this point with me, I'd now explore every avenue possible to return the car, get the money + damages for the ridiculous delays, and purchase a Japanese car. I have very little know how of how the law works, but in my estimation you're at the point where you should exercise whatever is at your disposal to get the ruddy thing out of your life, whilst not hurting you financially. Good luck!

EDIT: Maybe going to the local newspaper and/or BBB, or threatening to do so as well?

I don't know if anyone is still wondering, but I picked up my car late last night. While it was in, the service department offered to do the Cilajet Fab treatment:

"Cilajet FAB: Cilajet also offers the ultimate protection for the interior of your vehicle from spills, spots and stains. The Cilajet fabric protector can be professionally applied to the interior of your automobile, including the carpet, mats, and fabric seats to protect from coffee, mud and other accidents. It is non-hazardous, hypoallergenic, environmentally friendly, and 0% VOC (Volatile Organic Compound), which means there are no chemicals released into the atmosphere."

This morning when I jumped in the car in the day light, I noticed blotches and streaks all over my interior. Every seating surface, the arm rests, everywhere. The cloth is a medium-gray, and the blotches are everywhere.

I didn't mention anything to my wife, and when she got in she also immediately noticed the marks.

We've taken a bunch of photos and notified the service department, but they are closed.

Anyone care to see them? Hopefully I can either be told to chill out and pretend they aren't there or be told I have good reason to be pissed.

By the way, the car has 520 miles on it at this point.....

[bargainguy]

Kinda like spraying camo on your fabric - stains are there already so that any new stains just blend in? Yikes.

[10-4]

Kinda like spraying camo on your fabric - stains are there already so that any new stains just blend in? Yikes.

There were no stains when the car went in, it had lass than 500 miles on it, it was brand new.

[10-4]

You have way more patience than I can ever hope to have. If it did get to this point with me, I'd now explore every avenue possible to return the car, get the money + damages for the ridiculous delays, and purchase a Japanese car. I have very little know how of how the law works, but in my estimation you're at the point where you should exercise whatever is at your disposal to get the ruddy thing out of your life, whilst not hurting you financially. Good luck!

EDIT: Maybe going to the local newspaper and/or BBB, or threatening to do so as well?

Thanks. I'll be visiting the dealer first thing tomorrow morning, with my car.

I also own two Hondas I bought new, there have been little things here and there (my Fit has had over a half-dozen recalls since I bought it), but things were always fixed in a timely manner.

This is outrageous.

[Anarchist]

Is this a standalone dealer or part of the local Chrysler shop?

[cmg]

let the dealer reposse the fiat. let them sue you for the difference. you'll be out a grand and a lot of headache. Buy a used Honda civic or toyota corrolla. Boring cars but relaible to a fault with great gas mileage. Life's to short to be dealing with problematic cars and a dealer that doesn't want to provide support. you can buy it back 5 years from now for a fifth of the price and admire it as it probably won't be running in your yard.

[bargainguy]

There were no stains when the car went in, it had lass than 500 miles on it, it was brand new.

Sorry, I didn't explain myself well. The effect of the fabric spray - stains and blotches - creates a camo effect so that any new stains wouldn't necessarily look out of place, but the whole thing looks miserable either way. I sure hope the dealer doesn't try this approach with you!

[10-4]

Is this a standalone dealer or part of the local Chrysler shop?

Fields Fiat in Highland Park.

[10-4]

The car has been cleaned up, all fabric looks fine now.

Another problem has arisen, though: when at the dealership they did a software update to the nav system and now my XM radio is gone....

Have to take it in again for a new update.

[gavingould]

it's a good thing you have nothing but free time on your hands with the kids...

[10-4]

it's a good thing you have nothing but free time on your hands with the kids...

Thank God, right? We're currently sitting 4 business days away from enacting the Lemon Law on this bitch.

[10-4]

Get this one Gavin: the dealer told me yesterday that my car having the Sirius button was a "mistake" and my car isn't satellite-radio-ready afterall. Apparently Fiat sent a ton of cars to the US with Sat buttons, including pamphlets for a year of sat radio for free, told a ton of customers they were getting sat radio, then when they caught their mistake gave the dealers a USB dongle to plug in and wipe the button out.

Fortunately for Fiat many of those cars are still on lots. Unfortunately for me I was sold a car with a feature that doesn't actually exist.

[slidey]

Holy Bollocks! How does this even happen??!!

At this point, things are so poorly managed that its just hilarious! Sorry to be laughing, but Fiat's US operation is striking me more and more as a lemonade stand manned by a couple of first graders.

Get this one Gavin: the dealer told me yesterday that my car having the Sirius button was a "mistake" and my car isn't satellite-radio-ready afterall. Apparently Fiat sent a ton of cars to the US with Sat buttons, including pamphlets for a year of sat radio for free, told a ton of customers they were getting sat radio, then when they caught their mistake gave the dealers a USB dongle to plug in and wipe the button out.

Fortunately for Fiat many of those cars are still on lots. Unfortunately for me I was sold a car with a feature that doesn't actually exist.

[gavingould]

our car had sirius/XM free for 3 months. the sound quality is only suitable for talk radio atmo. way over compressed and sounds like doo-doo, so i had no problem letting that lapse. a year later they're still sending renewal offers with lower and lower cost, but none of them have been tempting enough.

that said, it doesn't matter - they sold it to you with it, it should damn well work.

[Louis]

that said, it doesn't matter - they sold it to you with it, it should damn well work.

We're talking Fiat here - "working" is nice to have, not a hard requirement.

[lookout2015]

Get this one Gavin: the dealer told me yesterday that my car having the Sirius button was a "mistake" and my car isn't satellite-radio-ready afterall. Apparently Fiat sent a ton of cars to the US with Sat buttons, including pamphlets for a year of sat radio for free, told a ton of customers they were getting sat radio, then when they caught their mistake gave the dealers a USB dongle to plug in and wipe the button out.

Fortunately for Fiat many of those cars are still on lots. Unfortunately for me I was sold a car with a feature that doesn't actually exist.

If it makes you feel better, I was at an event downtown last night where there were a bunch of 500s set up on display. We wandered through while we were waiting for things to start and the sales person mentioned several times that they come with Sirius. I guess that memo hasn't made it to the dealership here? :rolleyes:

[10-4]

If it makes you feel better, I was at an event downtown last night where there were a bunch of 500s set up on display. We wandered through while we were waiting for things to start and the sales person mentioned several times that they come with Sirius. I guess that memo hasn't made it to the dealership here? :rolleyes:

The standard 500 does come with Sirius, the 500L apparently does not.

[10-4]

our car had sirius/XM free for 3 months. the sound quality is only suitable for talk radio atmo. way over compressed and sounds like doo-doo, so i had no problem letting that lapse. a year later they're still sending renewal offers with lower and lower cost, but none of them have been tempting enough.

that said, it doesn't matter - they sold it to you with it, it should damn well work.

I'm kinda ticked that hearing that makes me feel better. The Bluetooth works fine, so I can stream whatever from my phone, but it's the principal now....

[10-4]

In case anyone is curious, I'm still fighting the dealership to get my SXM radio. I was told it would be taken care of by last week, but that's of course come and gone. I was then told on Saturday it was escalated to a regional person.

This is nuts....

[10-4]

Well, I can't hardly believe it, but after months of fighting Fiat/Chrysler has decided to give me a new car containing all of the options I was initially told I would have.

[Ken Robb]

Well, I can't hardly believe it, but after months of fighting Fiat/Chrysler has decided to give me a new car containing all of the options I was initially told I would have.

Good news/bad news: you get a new car but it's another Fiat. :)

[slidey]

I was wondering what became of this just a couple of days back. A new car does seem like a big progress. I'm assuming the option of money back isn't available right?

[Germany_chris]

Fiat: Fix It Again, Tony.
JEEP - Just Eats Every Part


Just Empty Every Pocket

[R2D2]

Well, I can't hardly believe it, but after months of fighting Fiat/Chrysler has decided to give me a new car containing all of the options I was initially told I would have.

Wow.............
Hopefully it all works out.

[maximus]

Bummer...got a 500 as a rental on a recent trip to the bay area. Drove from SFO to SF and all over town then down to Santa Cruz and back. Used maybe 1/3 tank of gas.

I am 6'1" and was reminded of this scene from the Simpsons:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn2ofZ84tZI

Hope you get it sorted!

[10-4]

I was wondering what became of this just a couple of days back. A new car does seem like a big progress. I'm assuming the option of money back isn't available right?

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I still really like the car. I'd love it if it worked correctly. Hopefully this new one will.

[Louis]

Would the dealer give you your cash back?

If so, I'd strongly consider that and bail out.

[10-4]

Would the dealer give you your cash back?

If so, I'd strongly consider that and bail out.

Highly doubtful, but again, I like the car. Well, I think I could like the car if it worked correctly. Hopefully this one will.

[slidey]

Ah-ha! Well, if you like the car then nothing else matters. Hopefully the new 500 will be much better i.e. at least work. Keep us posted!

Maybe I'm wrong here, but I still really like the car. I'd love it if it worked correctly. Hopefully this new one will.

[Louis]

Best of luck with your replacement.

Reliability is my A #1 requirement with everyday-driver cars. If a car can't do that, then there's no sense owning it.

[10-4]

Ah-ha! Well, if you like the car then nothing else matters. Hopefully the new 500 will be much better i.e. at least work. Keep us posted!

Thanks!

I have to say, the Service Manager at the dealership, I think, did everything he could. I think his resources are of course limited. The Sales Manager did little other than pass me off, but luckily he passed me off to someone who actually took action.

Once I made it to the corporate level it seemed they wanted nothing more than to get something done.

The bitch of it now is paperwork getting everything transferred, but the corporate woman I am working with more or less told me "pick any car on the lot and we'll make an even trade". The car we are getting has a sticker of just over $2000 more than our original one.

[Jeff N.]

I used to say this a lot when I had a Spider. LOL

Now I drive a

F ooker
O nly
R un
D ownhillI once had a Fiat X-19. Biggest POS to ever roll off of ANY assembly line!

[10-4]

They stepped up, and I picked up my new car today. MSRP difference was covered by Chrysler.

http://i41.tinypic.com/28i1fn6.jpg

[cp43]

Glad to hear it has worked out. Have fun with it :)

Chris

[Louis]

Glad to hear it has worked out.

Having also owned an Italian car myself, I'd wait a few years before claiming victory on attempt #2.

[10-4]

Having also owned an Italian car myself, I'd wait a few years before claiming victory on attempt #2.

Man, was your statement my jinx or what?!

Picked up the new loaner car today. New vehicle I got last week went in for service with 61 miles on it. Shifter stuck again, triggered check engine and check transmission codes. Was stranded without a car again that I couldn't get out of my driveway.

[AngryScientist]

Man, was your statement my jinx or what?!

Picked up the new loaner car today. New vehicle I got last week went in for service with 61 miles on it. Shifter stuck again, triggered check engine and check transmission codes. Was stranded without a car again that I couldn't get out of my driveway.

dude.

this story is sickening. you, my man - need a honda.

[gavingould]

61mi huh... pretty impressive. question now - is the Fiat louder or quieter than a Shimano 11sp cogset?

[slidey]

Man, looks like the car looks good only in standstill.

Having said that, can you be absolutely certain than the replacement vehicle is brand-new? I mean, if odo reads zero I'm led to believe that there is no legal way to not have it actually be 0 miles/kms, but maybe some other components were switched out from recalled vehicles? Also, highly unlikely but given the whole situation is so crappy it'd seem anything is possible.

Good luck! Maybe a low profile Japanese model is after all the way to go.

[Louis]

Maybe a low profile Japanese model is after all the way to go.

Hmmm, I wonder what Catrinel would say about that?

http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Fiat-Abarth-ad.jpg

[slidey]

In this still, Catrinel is whispering - "Dumbass", and then goes on to knee the guy in the plums. :help:

Hmmm, I wonder what Catrinel would say about that?

http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Fiat-Abarth-ad.jpg

[10-4]

Man, looks like the car looks good only in standstill.

Having said that, can you be absolutely certain than the replacement vehicle is brand-new? I mean, if odo reads zero I'm led to believe that there is no legal way to not have it actually be 0 miles/kms, but maybe some other components were switched out from recalled vehicles? Also, highly unlikely but given the whole situation is so crappy it'd seem anything is possible.

Good luck! Maybe a low profile Japanese model is after all the way to go.


I think it had 19mi when we got it.

[10-4]

in this still, catrinel is whispering - "dumbass", and then goes on to knee the guy in the plums. :help:

hahahahahaha

[10-4]

dude.

this story is sickening. you, my man - need a honda.

Don't start. I already have one and just turned in the other.

[10-4]

61mi huh... pretty impressive. question now - is the Fiat louder or quieter than a Shimano 11sp cogset?

Fiat is much quieter Gavin. Can't make a ton of noise sitting still in the shop.

How's that Jetta TDi working out? It looks better and better every day.

[Louis]

To think that just today I sold my '97 Acura Integra (266,xxx miles) for $900.

You would probably get more reliable service from that Integra than from a brand-new Fiat. ;)

[gavingould]

Fiat is much quieter Gavin. Can't make a ton of noise sitting still in the shop.

How's that Jetta TDi working out? It looks better and better every day.

Sportwagen's been great. Just past 11k miles, been to dealer for the 10k service and a rattle from the panoramic roof that they adjusted out. Zero costs, zero days out of service. Don't jinx me bro!

[oldpotatoe]

Sportwagen's been great. Just past 11k miles, been to dealer for the 10k service and a rattle from the panoramic roof that they adjusted out. Zero costs, zero days out of service. Don't jinx me bro!

I have a new Jetta Sportwagen TDI as well...8000 miles, back and forth to Grand daughters and general driving and about 40-45 MPG...no issues, just hauled 200 sq ft of wood for a new floor yesterday, easy in and out with seats down, room to spare..love this car.

Have a 2000 New Beetle as well..gas, wish it was TDI..120,000 miles and except for routine, and lights, they eat lights, no issue either..and next to a Fiat it looks HUGE.

Sorry, good luck on the Fiat.