Help! Merlin Works or Custom Steel

[Slave2Gus]

OK, the Slave is pretty much shopped out. While I just can't afford more expensive Ti, I can afford either the new Merlin Works or custom steel from a range of builders. For that matter, I think I can have the Works custom for an upcharge. So what are your thoughts? Should I spring for the Ti (not withstanding the icky graphics)? It sure seems like a good deal on what appears to me to be a good frame. I'd sure appreciate some input. I'm ready to put this search on ice and move on to other aspects of my life...like picking out a good wheelset.

[Dr. Doofus]

a custom builder worthy of the name can build you a bike that will ride better than some piece of crap from ABG*


strong, kirk, goodrich, rock lobster, serotta....

and do you really need custom?


*doof could go on and on about ABG frames being out of alignment when they were unpacked, less-than-impressive ride quality and build quality on some of the less expensive frames, and then there are the stories heard first hand about how most of the Litespeed's provided to a pro team broke...

[William]

There are a lot of options out there if you want a custom steel rig. I recommend a custom Zanconato. I've seen Mikes (Zank) work up close and it is top notch. I'm heading up to his shop on Thursday for a fitting and to discuss options on a custom Cross rig. Follow the links below to see some examples and praise for his work. I think Zank is one of those local gems......though won't be "local" to much longer if I can help it. ;)

William

http://www.zanconato.com

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=13257

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=13344

[Tailwinds]

Nothing like seeing the process of your bike being built. Oh wait -- there is the awesome RIDING part that comes after!!!

Do a search here to see what people have said about Kirk bikes... can't recommend them highly enough.

A heads-up: there will be a price increase Jan. 1.

[Serotta PETE]

I would recommend SEROTTA for steel or someone like Kirk. The frame will be tailored to you, your riding desires, and colors wants.

There are plenty of good frames out there,,,,give the builder a call and talk to them about your requirements and go from there.....

Have a bike built for you and your wants is really great!!!

[BarryG]

Should I spring for the Ti?
If the frame fits . . .

(personally, can't stand the Merlin's ungenerous headtube lengths but maybe that's your preference)

[Slave2Gus]

That's one thing that concerns me. My current ride has a diminutive headtube and I don't like it. On another issue, I'm curious why on one hand ABG builds "crap" but on the other hand Tom Kellog is respected as a master Ti builder - he had (according to Merlin and Tom) a very active role in developing the Works line (as well as other Merlins, I believe).

Do I need custom? Beats me. I'm not oddly shaped although I'm a little short in the arms and torso. Do I want custom? Only to the degree that I can specify my wants regarding ride, weight, and fit.

[Dr. Doofus]

On another issue, I'm curious why on one hand ABG builds "crap" but on the other hand Tom Kellog is respected as a master Ti builder - he had (according to Merlin and Tom) a very active role in developing the Works line (as well as other Merlins, I believe).
.


TK would be the one to give the definitive answer

doof will foolishly provide the spurious one

TK may design them

he doesn't miter the tubes, do the welding, do the alignment checks during the build process...and all the other little things that make the crucial difference between a good bike and one that is "good enough."

you could have bud the welder make copies of pegorettis

and they would suck

[fiamme red]

TK would be the one to give the definitive answer

doof will foolishly provide the spurious one

TK may design them

he doesn't miter the tubes, do the welding, do the alignment checks during the build process...and all the other little things that make the crucial difference between a good bike and one that is "good enough."

you could have bud the welder make copies of pegorettis

and they would suckhttp://www.spectrum-cycles.com/21.htm

"Master frame builder Tom Kellogg collaborates with you to chose from the widest selection of tubing available. He matches your unique characteristics and riding requirements with the optimum combination of tube diameters, gauges, and butting options in order to create for you the ideal Titanium ride.

"After the frame is designed, the tubes are cut, mitered and welded by the most experienced craftsman at Merlin Metal Works using Spectrum's exclusive "non-push weld" technique. The result is a gorgeous, glass smooth weld that's as strong as it is beautiful. Finally, Tom Kellogg finishes each frame with your custom paint scheme. If you can dream it, he will paint it."

[Dr. Doofus]

are the merlins and spectrums built to the same spec?

or are the stock merlins built along with the litespeed stuff?

gunnars and waterfords are from the same factory

but the welds on the waterfords are cleaner...

someone in that factory could also tell you if a bit more time is spent on all stages of the build on the TIG waterfords...

doof has unpacked too many mediocre ABG products to completely trust the merlin stuff...which is not to say that they must be all cruddy....

if dfoo had the choice of 1500 to carl strong, serotta, paul skoloff, zank, or the production line at ABG, you know what choice oodf would make...

(actually, oodf would just get an 8:30, but that's another matter)

[Slave2Gus]

If I were TK (and I have not even spoken to him or met him or have a friend who knows his sister or ....), I would not want my name associated with Merlin if "Bud the welder" was wielding the torch. On the other hand, if it was produced by a competent crew, well, no problem. I'm not trying to justify my decision because I really haven't made one but with a greater education (hopefully gleaned from this board) comes greater complexity. By the way, thanks for all of your opinions.

[Kirk Pacenti]

Doof,

Generally speaking, I am in agreement with you for most of your posts. But I have to say on this point you have don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.

Having worked there for 3 years, and done much of the developmet work on the Merlin line, (don't blame me for the integrated head tube debauchle though!) I can tell you the stuff is of excellent quality. TK will tell you himself, the stuff he is getting from ABG today is WAY better than anything he got from Cambridge.

I would agree that the Litespeed brand is a bit mediocre, but remember, the focus is a lot different than the Merlin line. Last count they were building something like 10K Litespeeds and maybe 2K Merlins.

[bulliedawg]

Doof,

Generally speaking, I am in agreement with you for most of your posts. But I have to say on this point you have don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.

Having worked there for 3 years, and done much of the developmet work on the Merlin line, (don't blame me for the integrated head tube debauchle though!) I can tell you the stuff is of excellent quality. TK will tell you himself, the stuff he is getting from ABG today is WAY better than anything he got from Cambridge.

I would agree that the Litespeed brand is a bit mediocre, but remember, the focus is a lot different than the Merlin line. Last count they were building something like 10K Litespeeds and maybe 2K Merlins.

But Doof's opinion forces me to wonder if Merlin is being negatively effected by ABG's poor reputation among us bike snobs. Jaguar's reputation is clearly being hurt by its association with Ford.

[fiamme red]

are the merlins and spectrums built to the same spec?

or are the stock merlins built along with the litespeed stuff?I'd guess that Spectrums are to Merlins as a Serotta Legend is to a Fierte.

[Tom Kellogg]

have been coming into my "in-box" for a few hours now ... encouraging me to respond. Honestly, I would like to, but I really don't want to use Ben's forum to do so. I don't think it is the right place. So if folks would like to hear my thoughts, please just PM me or give me a call to chat. Thanks.

[BarryG]

I would agree that the Litespeed brand is a bit mediocre
FWIW, Litespeed welds I've seen looked fine and the Litespeed bikes I've ridden rode fine . . . lots of opinions flying around, so this is just another . . .

[Kirk Pacenti]

FWIW, Litespeed welds I've seen looked fine and the Litespeed bikes I've ridden rode fine . . . lots of opinions flying around, so this is just another . . .


Yes, that is just my opinion. Although, I do have some first hand experience with the product, easily more than anyone here. I would concede that at this level we are really just spliting hairs, and the diference in quality between one US makers top model vs. anothers US makers top model is probably very small indeed.

[vaxn8r]

Doof, IMO you're out of line. I've ridden a couple of Merlin's and the workmanship and ride quality were top notch.

[slowgoing]

Slave - I think those new Merlins are a great value. I wouldn't hesitate to buy one for a minute. I have ridden recent versions of the agilis and extralight, and they ride great, as are their welds. I'd take one of the new Merlins in a hearbeat over most steel frames of the same price. I find this "quality of the welds" issue highly overrated.

On the other hand, I think the CIII offers a fantastic steel ride and is also a great value. I love the way Serotta steel frames ride, so I might be inclined to take the CIII, especially because the price includes custom sizing.

[Fixed]

bro just let brian smith build your bike you'll be happy and you can talk to him. he is a rider and knows what his bros want in a bike i.m.h.o. cheers :beer:

[fiamme red]

On the other hand, I think the CIII offers a fantastic steel ride and is also a great value.I think the only custom steel Serotta road frame is the Coeur d'Acier. No more CIII, at least by name.

[Serpico]

well, you can get a cda without carb stays, but you pay the carb stays price--iirc

[cinelli]

Slave,

The Doof is way off base on Merlin's welds. I suggest you contact Tom Kellogg directly. Heck, spend a few more dollars and buy the Spectrum and live happily ever after.

[Dr. Doofus]

Doof,

Generally speaking, I am in agreement with you for most of your posts. But I have to say on this point you have don't have a clue as to what you are talking about.

Having worked there for 3 years, and done much of the developmet work on the Merlin line, (don't blame me for the integrated head tube debauchle though!) I can tell you the stuff is of excellent quality. TK will tell you himself, the stuff he is getting from ABG today is WAY better than anything he got from Cambridge.

I would agree that the Litespeed brand is a bit mediocre, but remember, the focus is a lot different than the Merlin line. Last count they were building something like 10K Litespeeds and maybe 2K Merlins.


cool

its great that guys like you and TK can step in when some dork,or doof, is off base

my experience with litespeed (working in two shops that both dumped them) and some "they broke" stories from guys who raced them in 2003 made me suspect pretty much everything out of ABG. as a consumer and shop monkey, I had some doubts. the great strength of this forum is that whatever question comes up, someone can answer it. I apologize to TK for any possible offense that may have been taken in my posts earlier today -- I had doubts, raised them bluntly, and they were accurately answered.



and hey, doof just raised questions and posed problems, never made a clear declarative statement about whether or not merlins were good, the welds were good, whatever....

now we know the answers to the questions and the problems

all is good

[lnomalley]

i can't say enough nice things about merlin. yes, ABG is making some wonky decisions and yes Litespeed is a high volume company and not a boutique. I've raced and ridden on a variety of bikes in the last few years Merckx, Seven, Orbea, Merlin, and soon Cannondale.. all of them do something special.
The Merlin was dead on in terms of alignment right out of the box, the welds were flawless, and it was the most responsive bike i've been on. it also has a great resale value.

Don't believe the speculative conspiracy theories. ABG is a big company covering a lot of different bases. The guys at Merlin are always a phone call away. They won't nail you with sales talk and I highly recommend getting your answers from the source. Mistakes happen at every company.. merlin handles their business in an open, direct, friendly manner, and went above and beyound to help me deal with some sizing issues.

they are one of the best ti builders out there and they can make a nice stiff responsive racing rig.
(i can't type fast .. so excuse the mess.. i'm in a hurry).

[William]

There are a lot of options out there if you want a custom steel rig. I recommend a custom Zanconato. I've seen Mikes (Zank) work up close and it is top notch. I'm heading up to his shop on Thursday for a fitting and to discuss options on a custom Cross rig. Follow the links below to see some examples and praise for his work. I think Zank is one of those local gems......though won't be "local" to much longer if I can help it. ;)

William

http://www.zanconato.com

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=13257

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=13344

Just adding a link I just found.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=153933#post153933

William

[Sandy]

I think the only custom steel Serotta road frame is the Coeur d'Acier. No more CIII, at least by name.

You can order the Coeur d'Acier with steel seat stays. I think that makes it a CIII. I have thought about buying one.


Steel Seat Stays Sandy

[Serotta_Andrew]

well, you can get a cda without carb stays, but you pay the carb stays price--iirc


The Coeur D'Arcier for 2006 is $200 less than the 2005 price and you have the option of the carbon stay or the steel stay. So it is a better deal this year!!!!

[Sandy]

Are the prices given on the website 2005 or 2006 prices? The website gives the same price for the CDA (I can't spell the real name) with the ti or steel seat stays. What is the price for the all steel CDA, please?


Sandy

[pdxmech13]

OK, the Slave is pretty much shopped out. While I just can't afford more expensive Ti, I can afford either the new Merlin Works or custom steel from a range of builders. For that matter, I think I can have the Works custom for an upcharge. So what are your thoughts? Should I spring for the Ti (not withstanding the icky graphics)? It sure seems like a good deal on what appears to me to be a good frame. I'd sure appreciate some input. I'm ready to put this search on ice and move on to other aspects of my life...like picking out a good wheelset.

We really need to get back on track here people. Oh and Tom yu tha man.
do yourself a favor and shop around a little bit more...Its honestly the best part of buying a new bike. Except for waiting until its built and sent to you.

[Fixed]

bro pick up the jan 2005 procycling mag. chris boardman reviews a merlin bro if you can.t find it p.m. me and i'll send it to you cheers :beer:

[bostondrunk]

Slaveboy (not Kevan),

Get the bike you like. Get the one that will make you want to ride it. Stop worrying about low quality welds, custom fitting, blah blah.
99.9999% of us don't need a custom fit, period.
And 99.9% of the frames from any company out there are gonna hold up just fine, including litespeed. And most of them come with a warranty just in case.
Go and read the other thread that Doof just started on how custom fitting can go wrong, and see all the people that chimed in there about how their 'custom' experience was horrible and their 3k frames ended up on ebay for pennies. Oh, yeah, thats right, a frame that is custom built for you with some wack geometry has a crap resale value.

Surf the net or go to a good shop if you have one, test ride a few bikes, and get the one you like. Stop worrying about who built it.

[Fixed]

bro good advise from the drunk cyclist again i.m.h.o. cheers :beer:

[Slave2Gus]

Thanks to all of you - those that responded in the threads and the PMs. Nobody else gives a crap about my frame search but you guys offered up your time, opinions, advice, and the occasional head slap. All the best to all of you (especially the Doof and TK!). And if there are more thoughts on this little conundrum of mine, let me hear them!
-Slave

[Tom Kellogg]

Slave:

You indicated that you might be taking some test rides. Let us know how it all came out in the end.

[Slave2Gus]

Bear in mind my review may be akin to a drunk at a Sonoma wine tasting! :beer:

[chrisroph]

The new merlin works line seems to be the deal in ti bikes at the moment if they fit. They have the tk 1" chainstays which have to be ridden to see how solid a ti bike can ride. So, ask yourself if a works will fit and, if so, whether you want ti or steel.

[Dr. Doofus]

the 3.25 works is a great value

the geo is good and the bike will handle well

funny thing about this thread...there was a 57 cyrene that doof should have bought from the shop where he worked in '03...but he was told it didn't fit and sold on the CSI that went awry...he'd still have that cyrene if he'd bought it....

[Skrawny]

I love this place.
I don't have enough experience to say anything worthwhile, but it's great to be a cyber fly on a virtual wall as knowledgeable people debate.
Thanks Ben, et al...
-s

[Slave2Gus]

Well, TK asked for a little feedback from yesterday's fit. Here goes (and sorry that it will probably not qualify as particularly enlightening).

First of all, the test ride was on a shop employee's bike. He was kind enough to entrust me with his race steed. Still, since it was not fit to me, I could get a feel for the bike's ride but not an effective test of its performance. It was very smooth over the rough sections (better than my current steel frame), cornered well, felt rather stable when hands off (not that I would do that with his race bike ;) ), and responded well to my accelerations. There was no perceptible flex but I could be a total wimp on the pedals...I have no idea. I'm 157lbs and was riding a small CR frame for what that's worth. I did not get to climb any hills of significance nor descend but since it was not fit to me in the first place, I don’t know how I would judge those aspects anyway. How it will feel on the long rides is still an unknown but, again, my initial impression of the ride matched with Ti’s reputation of being smooth. Appearance-wise, the welds look as fine as any other well-made frame. My only gripe is with the decals which are gaudy. I’ll probably get used to it. I suspect Merlin will get the word and next year they’ll tone it down. I guess if I really hate it I can ask to have it modified (some sticker removal) but I probably am not allowed to take TK’s signature off the chainstay! :D

The shop fitter did a meticulous job with me and fielded my endless barrage of annoying "what-if/but how come/well so and so said" questions. What a good guy. The fit worked out, the price was right, and they had a 51cm TR3/2.5 looking for a home. So I bought it. My gut says I will enjoy it. For the weight-weenies, it tips the scales at 2.84 (or was it 2.88) pounds. I certainly can’t expect lighter while meeting my durability expectations. I understand the price will be taking a notable leap in the next few weeks. If you want one, jump on it now. Regardless, it will be a better cycle than I am a cyclist…or bike rider according to some.

Now here’s the funny part…when I returned home to my steel Bianchi on the wall I felt a funny sort of sentiment. ("What is the wet substance beneath my eyes???") I think I will still enjoy riding that bike and won’t get rid of it. Don’t get me wrong. I’m completely psyched to be riding a well crafted frame and by all indications the Merlin will really fit the bill. It's just the Bianchi has a special place. Oh well, now I really just want to ride. Enough shopping.

[Dr. Doofus]

Now here’s the funny part…when I returned home to my steel Bianchi on the wall I felt a funny sort of sentiment. ("What is the wet substance beneath my eyes???") I think I will still enjoy riding that bike and won’t get rid of it. Don’t get me wrong. I’m completely psyched to be riding a well crafted frame and by all indications the Merlin will really fit the bill. It's just the Bianchi has a special place. Oh well, now I really just want to ride. Enough shopping.

some bikes you develop a relationship with

doof loves his gunnar

its kinda flexy (too much post)

its a little long (doof likes the ridley rocket's shorter f-c)

but its such a pal

dude on a merckx today says "is that ti?"

doof says "are you kidding? its 700 bucks." (while trying to smile and look casual while sitting in a 20mph wind and the power meter sayin 300 watts...the merckx dude was strong...tall like the jerk but buff like william...if the doof had any sense he'd of sat in the big draft...but noooooo...doof has to act like a hard doof...dork).

that merlin will be cool

[slowgoing]

Didn't the new Merlin Works sell for about $1400 a month or two ago?

Not anymore, at least at Excel. The 3-2.5 frames are now $2262. I knew it was too good of a deal to last forever.

[saab2000]

OK, the Slave is pretty much shopped out. While I just can't afford more expensive Ti, I can afford either the new Merlin Works or custom steel from a range of builders. For that matter, I think I can have the Works custom for an upcharge. So what are your thoughts? Should I spring for the Ti (not withstanding the icky graphics)? It sure seems like a good deal on what appears to me to be a good frame. I'd sure appreciate some input. I'm ready to put this search on ice and move on to other aspects of my life...like picking out a good wheelset.

STEEL - Not much heavier. Livelier, whatever that means. You'll know when you ride 2 nearly identical bikes side by each, with one Ti and the other one steel.

[saab2000]

Oh yeah, and while custom fittings can be great, they can also be a mixed blessing. Playing with fire. Depending on your dimensions, odds are you can be fitted just fine to a standard sized frame and not have to worry about the compromises a custom can entail. That said, a real master, and there are some who hang out here, may be able to improve on a standard size. But most will do just fine with a standard most of the time.

So there.

[lnomalley]

i've had the pleasure of riding and racing on many different frames. some of them free and some i paid for. merckx, orbea, cannondale, seven and merlin to nam e a few.... the stock merlin bike was as good or better in some way than all of them. the only issue i had was that i was on the wrong size bike. they even offered a deal for me to trade it in and get on the right size.... it was stiff and smooth and perfectly aligned. i miss that bike.

[spiderman]

for frame/fork and headset...
i'm riding a cIII in all kinds of conditions
rough/smooth roads snow/ice/slush
and dry pavement...
it rides like a dream.
better than i ever imagined.
it has cured me
of getting my wife a new bike.
she's riding my old crl
and wouldn't give it back...
used serotta steel
is a pretty sweet deal!

[Mikej]

a custom builder worthy of the name can build you a bike that will ride better than some piece of crap from ABG*


strong, kirk, goodrich, rock lobster, serotta....

and do you really need custom?


*doof could go on and on about ABG frames being out of alignment when they were unpacked, less-than-impressive ride quality and build quality on some of the less expensive frames, and then there are the stories heard first hand about how most of the Litespeed's provided to a pro team broke...
First, I love this board and all of the people on it - in a never met you sort of way, but....
I have been riding a "supposed" p.o.c. from ABG for 6 years now - Y2K Tuscany w/ std headset. So far all tubes have remained intact, despite current public notion that ABG has no welders and use two-sided sticky tape. They make a frame as good as the next guy, so ***? I like the look of ti, I like the feel of ti (waay better than cro-mo) and it has a nice gucci appeal I never felt on a 753 / 531 reynolds frame. They can be crashed out in a crit, tossed in the ditch, re-stickered, and beat to hell and come out in better shape than steel - garaunteed. Ride whatever you want, but just dont get teary eyed if some doesn't like it, its yours, not thiers. Just as long as the bars below the saddle - now thats custom! I suck at spelling but can add pretty good.
p.s. doof, must have been the first ever bike broken by a pro or out of alignment.

[palincss]

OK, the Slave is pretty much shopped out. While I just can't afford more expensive Ti, I can afford either the new Merlin Works or custom steel from a range of builders. For that matter, I think I can have the Works custom for an upcharge. So what are your thoughts? Should I spring for the Ti (not withstanding the icky graphics)? It sure seems like a good deal on what appears to me to be a good frame. I'd sure appreciate some input. I'm ready to put this search on ice and move on to other aspects of my life...like picking out a good wheelset.

So really the question is, "stock Ti vs custom steel", but you haven't indicated the criteria for determining which is "best".

- If you're looking for custom fit /geometry then obviously the custom is going to be superior to the stock frame regardless of the material.

- If you're set on Ti then the stock Ti is going to have far more titanium content than the steel frame.

- If you're looking for light weight, you can build a light bike out of either steel or titanium.

- If graphics are an issue, you can get precisely what you want with the custom steel; no need to tolerate any ugliness at all.

- If uniqueness is an issue, there's no question that the custom steel will be better.

- If you're looking for long term resale value, I can assure you that a custom steel Spectrum will retain a lot more of its value after ten years than any titanium frame, stock or custom.

- If you are looking for a bike that is also a work of art, there is no titanium frame I've ever seen that can compete with the likes of a Columbine, a Richard Moon, a Vanilla or a Mariposa.

- If you are concerned with tire and fender clearance, your chances are far better with a custom steel frame.

- If you are interested in an integrated approach to fenders, lighting, racks, etc. (for examples, see dbrk's Herse and Singer bikes) you can get this much more readily in steel (is there any constructeur besides Tournesol working in titanium?).

- If you want instant gratification, buy the stock frame, as custom builders typically have a long waiting list.

[Mikej]

So really the question is, "stock Ti vs custom steel", but you haven't indicated the criteria for determining which is "best".

- If you're looking for custom fit /geometry then obviously the custom is going to be superior to the stock frame regardless of the material.

- If you're set on Ti then the stock Ti is going to have far more titanium content than the steel frame.

- If you're looking for light weight, you can build a light bike out of either steel or titanium.

- If graphics are an issue, you can get precisely what you want with the custom steel; no need to tolerate any ugliness at all.

- If uniqueness is an issue, there's no question that the custom steel will be better.

- If you're looking for long term resale value, I can assure you that a custom steel Spectrum will retain a lot more of its value after ten years than any titanium frame, stock or custom.

- If you are looking for a bike that is also a work of art, there is no titanium frame I've ever seen that can compete with the likes of a Columbine, a Richard Moon, a Vanilla or a Mariposa.

- If you are concerned with tire and fender clearance, your chances are far better with a custom steel frame.

- If you are interested in an integrated approach to fenders, lighting, racks, etc. (for examples, see dbrk's Herse and Singer bikes) you can get this much more readily in steel (is there any constructeur besides Tournesol working in titanium?).

- If you want instant gratification, buy the stock frame, as custom builders typically have a long waiting list.

Very well said, how did so many smart, tolerant guys find this place?

[Tailwinds]

They can be crashed out in a crit, tossed in the ditch, re-stickered, and beat to hell

I must agree -- my Litespeed Ultimate has been through hell and back, and it's still in the same condition it was when it was new ('98). I don't know if another bike of another frame material would have survived with all tubes intact. Maybe -- maybe not.

I will say that I have my 3rd steel bike on the way because the feel of a well-built steel bikes makes me :D . YMMV, of course.

[SpongeDad]

Having worked there for 3 years, and done much of the developmet work on the Merlin line, (don't blame me for the integrated head tube debauchle though!) I can tell you the stuff is of excellent quality. TK will tell you himself, the stuff he is getting from ABG today is WAY better than anything he got from Cambridge.

What debacle? I picked up an Agilis last summer - don't tell me I have to be on the look-out for a defect.

OP - The Agilis looks to be the slightly heavier precursor to the 3/2.5 CR Works. I have really enjoyed mine. Comfortable without being mushy or slow to respond. I suspect the CR Works would be the same.

[Jeff N.]

As I've stated before in another thread, the newer '05 & '06 Merlin Extralights (for example) display welds, design execution, build quality and ride characteristics that are as fine as I've ever seen on a Ti frame and, in fact, better than many. Jeff N.

[Slave2Gus]

Didn't the new Merlin Works sell for about $1400 a month or two ago?

Not anymore, at least at Excel. The 3-2.5 frames are now $2262. I knew it was too good of a deal to last forever.

Yeah, I scored. Got it a few weeks before the price jump. Sure hope it fits (not built up yet) 'cuz I think I might have a real nice ride. Every now and then I pick it up and just hold it. :D