Cannondale CAAD6 - eBay, Hollowgram, integrated headset etc...

[weisan]

I bought a used Cannondale CAAD6 R4000Si over Christmas. It's the original frame and Slice Si fork.

Old vs New Economy
Brand new retail $3,250 complete bike with Dura-Ace 9.
In today's terms: 70 bucks used on eBay + 25 shippin' + existing components with an estimated value of $350. Total spend: less than 500.

A few questions I have regarding the anticipated buildup in the weeks ahead.
1) Hollowgram Crank + Bottom Bracket
I believe that is a proprietary design for the CAAD6 frame. Do I need special equipment to install it? I am looking for a set of these, so far eBay turned back nuthin'. Where else can I find a set? -- used or new, doesn't matter.

2) Headset. The original equipment came with a hidden campy headset. Is that the same thing as an integrated headset? Do I need special equipment to install it? Can I use an alternative headset to replace it?

I am taking the current set of components off the LOOK KG bike to put on to this new rocket.

- Shimano Ultegra FlightDeck 9-speed Gruppo
- Ti or carbon seatpost
- Open Pros wheelset
- **regular** alum handlebar
- Flite Gel saddle
- Speedplay pedals
- FlightDeck computer
- Conti Ultra3000 X 20 mm clincher tires

That should do it.

Cannondale has come a long way in its working with aluminium as the material of choice for making bikes. Old rules of being a harsh ride are being re-written and hardly ever true. This bike was designed for one purpose only -- to go REALLY fast! as a race bike. And it performs that task very well.

http://alicehui.com/serotta/cannondale/R4000Si/r4000_01.jpg
2002 Cannondale CAAD6 R4000Si (http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/01/cusa/model-1RR4K.html)

comments, questions, help, any? :)

weisan

[weisan]

Found the answer to part of my questions on the Park Tool website (http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=68)...

==============================
The integrated system uses cartridge bearings that are supported by machining in a specially shaped head tube. The frame may also use pressed rings or retainers inside the headtube. A cartridge bearing slips into these "cups" or supports, and is simply lifted out for replacement. There is no contact with the headtube face. The bearing sits inside the headtube, and references the angular contact. There are different standards within this integrated-angular contact family, and these are not interchangeable. A table at the end of this article summarizes the various standards.

The "IS" system is considered the most common. The name Integrated System is not a registered trade name. The system uses the 45-degree bearing contact in the frame. The bearings for the 1-1/8 inch steering columns use a 41mm outside diameter with a 45-degree bearing contact in the frame. The bearing may be marked "36-45". The first number refers to the inside bearing contact with the headset race or centering cone. The second number refers to the frame contact.

The less common 36-degree angular contact standard uses a bearing for the 1-1/8 inch steering columns with a 41.5mm outside diameter. The bearings may be marked "36-36".

Bearing adjustment in these systems similar to the threadless headset. Pressure is applied from an adjusting cap and bolt in the stem.

Campagnolo® Hiddenset
The Campagnolo® Hiddenset is a proprietary design, and is basically an integrated-angular contact type without cups. The frame must be compatible with this design for this headset to be used. The bearings cone races do not press into the frame. The frame has a specially machined headtube to accept the bearings. However, this standard is not interchangeable with the Integrated System described above. Adjustment is similar to a conventional threadless headset.

Steering columns may be either 1-inch or 1-1/8 inch in this standard. The bearings are a slip fit into the frame. The common 1-1/8 inch standard has a bearing outside diameter of nominally 41.8mm with a 45-degree bearing seat. Campagnolo® brand bearings use a caged ball bearing inside the bearing unit. The unit can be pulled apart to be cleaned and regreased. Some other brands use a non-serviceable bearing, which are simply replaced, not serviced.

[Fixed]

bro you may have to get that crank from cdale but i will ask around here, I know there are a lot of shop wrenches on the forum i'll try and find out today bro cheers and happy new year

[Argos]

If you need the Cannondale "tools" to install the crankset, lemme know. I can mail them to you, you can return them when you get a chance.

[divve]

If you have to buy the SI cranks new (very likely), it's going to set you back around $500. The carbon version costs less, but I don't know how much less. You can mount them with a standard 8 mm allen key. To remove them you require the Cannondale crank extractor (they may include these with new cranks). Cannondale also has tools for BB bearing insertion and removal. They work in combination for instance with the Park Tool race setter punch and headset installation tool.

[weisan]

thank you bro fixed-pal, take your time, please don't go out of the way it's still holiday season enjoy time with your wife and your son

argos-pal, thanks for the generous offer. I may actually take you up for it.

divve-pal, thanks for providing the information. I hope I won't have to buy anything new as this is supposed to be a low-budget project.

[divve]

Alternatively Cannondale now also has an adapter kit available that will convert your SI BB format to a regular English standard. It's a one time deal however as the adapter threads are bonded in the shell. Should be much cheaper than buying new cranks if it comes to that.

[weisan]

Thanks Divve-pal, that's good information. I have heard of that before but couldn't seem to find it on Google. I will contact Cannondale directly.

weisan

[weisan]

Found it: http://www.cannondale.com/Asset/iu_files/118544_SI_BB_Adapter.pdf

http://alicehui.com/serotta/cannondale/R4000Si/Si_BB_Adapter.gif

[weisan]

Additional info: I have checked with the LBS, the adapter kit costs around $50.

[Fixed]

bro that is good news cheers :beer:

[weisan]

fixed-pal, I am still holding out hope that I might be able to find a used set of Si Hollowgram cranks & bottom bracket for not too much coin. They were designed as an integral part of the CAAD6 frame, I am eager to try out the complete package and see for myself what this excitement about em' being super stiff and super light is about.

In fact, I am giving away a **special prize** to the first pal who help me land on one of these for anything less than 100 bucks !!! :banana: ;) :p :beer:

Believe me you, it's all gonna be worth it!

[FierteTi52]

Weisan,
I had a 2001 R4000SI and thought it was a nice bike. The Hollowgram cranks are really nice. I would hold out on the threaded conversion. Guys crash these bikes all the time. I'm sure a pair of cranks will show up.
Good Luck,
Jeff

[Jeff N.]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the proprietary BB for this setup is pressed in and NOT threaded....kinda like the old pre-'97 Klein's. Jeff N.

[weisan]

Fierte-pal, I will listen to you and wait patiently...now who has one, please call me right away. I will pick up my phone anytime 24/7 :D

Jeff-pal, you are right. It's pressed in...like butter!. You wouldn't happen to have one of those Si Hollowgram cranks, would you pal?? I thought you have pretty much tried everything. And I say that without the slightest sarcasm. ;)

[Jeff N.]

Weisan: While it's true that I own more bikes than I'll ever need, I've never gone for a bike that utilizes proprietary components for fear that those components would someday......become........ah-hum....difficult....to, um..........find. Jeff N.

[weisan]

Weisan: While it's true that I own more bikes than I'll ever need, I've never gone for a bike that utilizes proprietary components for fear that those components would someday......become........ah-hum....difficult....to, um..........find. Jeff N.
haa..haa....you are funny! :D I know I know....of course you are right! But if you and I live up to a hundred, ultimately everything we ever own would have become obsolete and hard to find someday.

But you are right, I brought this all upon myself...willingly. ;)

[Fixed]

weisan bro a crank will turn up you got lots of eyes looking i.m.h.o. cheers

[weisan]

fixed-pal...thank you and I am still keepin' an open mind that I may end up using the adapter kit which is absolutely fine but I just didn't want that to be the reason why I lost to you in a two-up sprint because I lost some stiffness in my bottom bracket haa haa :banana:

[weisan]

The frame I have ordered on eBay is coming in sometime next week. In anticipating the build, I look through the parts bin this morning to see what I already have and what I don't. It looks like I am about 90% covered short of a few things which I listed below. I would appreciate any of my pals contacting me if they have one of the missing parts available, used is ok. PM or email me: weisan_free at yahoo.com

Things I still need:
- Left-side Shimano STI 9-speed lever (105 or above) or a set of campy 8/9-speed levers
- Campagnolo hidden headset 1 1/8 (Chorus or Record)

eh....I think that's it!

bananas.

ps. More likely than not, I think I am gonna use the adapter kit to replace the SI crank/bb system since I already have a couple of BBs and Shimano cranks lying around the house.

[weisan]

Spent three hours last night putting the Cannondale R4000Si codenamed "Silver Bullet" together.

http://alicehui.com/serotta/cannondale/R4000Si/cannon_3.jpg

Haven't ridden on it...yet! but I will when I take it out on the lunch ride later today. In just lookin' at it, and touchin' it for the last few hours or so....to echo what fixed-pal said, I quickly gathered that this is more bike than I can ever be. I don't deserve it! The best way I can think of to describe the C'Dale bikes is that they are the "camaros and mustangs" of the herd. They are "muscle cars" if you will. They don't react well to gentle and caressing touch. Instead to be treated ike a wild horse to be tamed for the first time, approach them slowly and carefully, establish the mutal respect, but never show your fear, and then when you try to hold them down, they will put up a violent fight but you never never give up. It's a battle of the will. But once it's subdued,...hey buddy, are you still with me?? we gonna end this movie script soon alright, hang in there :D ...as I was saying, once it's subdued, hey! You can do whatever you want with it! :banana:

The way to ride this bike is not with finesse or smooth pedal strokes...you rock on it...almost violently, roll it like a wave , push it hard as it comes back at you even harder...oh yeah, it will come back at you...that's typical cannondale. Some people are caught by surprise when it sends feedback to them and we all know how those emotions are being classified..."it gives a harsh ride", "it's overbuilt", "too stiff" etc. No! This is a muscle bike ready to break out of its skinsuit. Treat it as such.

oh before I forgot to mention, "the icing on the cake"...total out-of-pocket expense for the eBay outing this time around: $197.30. Ended up didn't have to strip any components off the other bikes, make use of 90% recycled materials in the parts bin.

Components list:

2002 Cannondale R4000Si CAAD6 Frame 54cm
All carbon Si Slice Fork with alum dropouts, manufactured by TIME. (frame/fork - bought on Christmas day, ebay $67 + $25 to ship)
Mix of Ultegra, 105 gruppo
$90 Supergo Korso wheelset...running on 700X 20 Vredestein tires, courtesy of Ken Robb-pal.
**Froggie** forgie-stem 130mm, courtesy of Jeff.N-pal
FSA K-light carbon seatpost, courtesy of SoCalSteve-pal
Campy Chorus Hiddenset Headset (I kinda like the clean look of the integrated headset...and assembly is a breeze)
Old-school alum SAKAE handlebar
Gran Compe brakes - black. (found em' in the parts bin, hey, it's recycled!)
Flite Gel saddle
Speedplay X-3, courtesy of BruceK-pal.

* Notice how every bike I built carries a certain legacy from other folks on this forum with the parts I bought from them, in most cases, at the outrageously low price they are selling, they are practically givin' em' free to me. Members have privileges, and I am much grateful. :p

[Jeff N.]

Weisan-pal: I recognize that group, don't I? The bike looks BBBBBBBBBBBAD! Glad you decided to go with the bb insert rather than that proprietary crank set-up. You'll still get the stiffness, believe me. By the way, I think I may have some down tube derraileur cable barrel adjusters for Cannondale-style bosses. They just slip in. Doesn't look like you have any. Want 'em/need 'em? I also have some C'Dale in-line adjusters. Just say the word, pal. Glad to see you made that bike happen for so little money! Jeff N.

[weisan]

Jeff-pal, yep, good eye, there's like 10% of your gene pool in there. :D

I moved most, if not all, of the parts from your cannondale over to my friend's bike, save the cranks and the stem be'cos the old bike already have them on it and it's running a threaded quill stem. Oh btw, he's enjoying it, so thanks!

Stiff?...anything is too stiff for my 140 Ibs body. I thought the same, not gonna feel the difference, not for me at least. ;)

[Jeff N.]

Look above. (my previous post) I added a few things. Jeff N.

[weisan]

Just say the word, pal....Jeff N.
Why, you want to add more of your genetics to this "franken-bike"? ;)

That would be neat. Although I think I can live without em' but when Jeff-pal come knockin' on the door, you don't say no to him. :no: :beer:

You still got my address? If not, I will send a PM. You'the best!

weisan

[Fixed]

bro you are one wise man ,god loves you cheers

[weisan]

fixed-pal, you are sweet....so when can do a match sprint together on our 'Dales? I long for that day to come sooner. :p

[Fixed]

bro I can add you to the list of guys who beat me that list is getting pretty long ,bro your bike looks cool you could get a job hookin up bro's with race rigs on the side .cheers :)

[Jeff N.]

I know it's Longhornland, but I lost the rest. PM me. Jeff N.

[weisan]

I know it's Longhornland, but I lost the rest. PM me. Jeff N.

You got E-Mail!

Let me remind you again :D
http://alicehui.com/serotta/LongHorns/UT_Tower_No1.jpg

[Fixed]

bro weisan check out the hill video look at the bike bro cheers :beer:

[weisan]

bro weisan check out the hill video look at the bike bro cheers :beer:
I did I did, bro....it's not the bike, nor the rider, it's the....coffee, hairspray, and pinto beans bro cheers :beer:

[weisan]

This bike SUCKS!...BIG TIME.













heh heh..... :D

All good. All systems go except...the dia compe gran compe brakes have to go....anybody interested in using this on their vintage bike in exchange for a **modern** pair of brake calipers? All brands entertained, just make sure it's a bit more up to date than my gran.

And lastly, the 8-speed 105 derailer has to come off too...I was taught a basic mathematical truth today....8 is not equal 9. I betcha it has something to do also with the fact that it's Shi-mi-no.

Ring in the new year! :banana:

[Fixed]

bro you'll get it right I ve tried usein 8 with 9 it's kinda funky ,the other way around it works fine . bro are you still trainin on that hill at lunch ? cheers

[weisan]

bro are you still trainin on that hill at lunch ? cheers
Not today bro, not today.
..........Austin, TX 67 degrees, zero wind, clear sky, sunny.
5hr:12mins.
Steel.

[Serpico]

weisan, did you post pics yet ;)

[weisan]

Serpico-pal, sorry I didn't bring the camera along today, I should have, it's EXTRA BEAUTIFUL out in the hill country because of the blue sky.

ps. another shot of the c'dale using the mandatory garage door as background. But it was taken just a couple of minutes ago under the "last light" so it's not coming out well. Will try again tomorrow under yet another bright sunny day. :)
http://alicehui.com/serotta/cannondale/R4000Si/ca2.jpg