anyone successfully running retro super-record cranks with a MAX/MXL frameset?

[wallymann]

i'm running into interference issues between the small ring and the phat chainstays.

super record cranks and proper 115mm ISO taper assymetric spindle. spindle is new and cranks are in cherry condition and arent pulling too far down the tapers. it's just a clearance thing between the narrow Q cranks and the beefy chainstays.

wondering if anyone else has tried running retro super records on their MAX/MXL frames and how you got it to work. not too keen on spending $200 for a phil wood BB setup. as a fall-back i can run my sugino super-mightys which seem to clear the stays OK.

[mikemowbz]

No experience with this...but do the Super Mighty cranks clear on the same BB, or with their own, different, BB?

The two would both be a 'Campy' taper, IIRC (high end Sugino products using that standard at the time), so if it's the latter you could presumably mount the SR cranks on the BB you're running with the Sugino. If the former, then either just run the Suginos or swap out the spindle to add the requisite cm's, eh?

I'm quickly realizing this probably isn't very useful advice...obviously someone with the inside track on exactly what BB spindle length is optimal for those cranks on a MAX/MXL frame would actually be more helpful. :o

[ultraman6970]

Both of them are touching or only the driver side?

If the driver side just put a 2 mm spacer in the driver side cup and ready to go.

If both cranks are touching then is hard to tell where the problem is because could be that the cranks tapper is just f..ed, specially if are used. Thing I have seen before.

[oldpotatoe]

Both of them are touching or only the driver side?

If the driver side just put a 2 mm spacer in the driver side cup and ready to go.

If both cranks are touching then is hard to tell where the problem is because could be that the cranks tapper is just f..ed, specially if are used. Thing I have seen before.

Put 2mm spacer on the right hand side and you will have no threads showing on the LH side for the lockring..DOH!!

120mm asymmetric spindle would probably work, like from those guys at Phil Wood..not $200, for the other poster, BTW-about $150..I use C-Record on my MXLeader and the clearance is small but OK..the SR, vintage, small ring was close to chainstays, even thin ones.

[wallymann]

both crank-arms are equidistant from their respective chainstays (i.e., the pedal-end of the cranks are ~5mm away) but that damn small ring hits on the drive-side chainstay.

i'm debating either running the suginos or going with a modern-ish c-record build.

[Ralph]

If small ring rubbing now, it will probably rub with 111 ISO symetrical C Record spindle also. Also....chain stays not necessarily same on both sides, so clearance probably not same for crank arms both sides.

True.....with C Record....a 39 might give you the clearance you need VS a 42. I have a frame I can run a 111 symetrical with 39, but not a 42. Frame was built with idea I would run a 39 (or a 34).

[cachagua]

...Or a more recent cartridge-bearing BB with a longer spindle? I got a Chorus for twenty or thirty bucks that spins as smooth as a Phil. Miche and World Class and a few others also feature adjustable cups on both sides, allowing a little more adaptability...

[wallymann]

the BB is actually a modern centaur tapered 115mm assymetrical. same specs as the original stuff, but with modern cartridge bearings. chorus/record BBs are a no-go, right taper but 102mm is way too short!

i have a modern miche cartridge in the parts-bin, but i think it's also 115mm. for super-records to work on this frame, pretty sure i'll need to source a 120mm spindle.

besides phil, is there another option for modern cartridge bearing BBs with ISO tapered 120mm spindle?

...Or a more recent cartridge-bearing BB with a longer spindle? I got a Chorus for twenty or thirty bucks that spins as smooth as a Phil. Miche and World Class and a few others also feature adjustable cups on both sides, allowing a little more adaptability...

[oldpotatoe]

the BB is actually a modern centaur tapered 115mm assymetrical. same specs as the original stuff, but with modern cartridge bearings. chorus/record BBs are a no-go, right taper but 102mm is way too short!

i have a modern miche cartridge in the parts-bin, but i think it's also 115mm. for super-records to work on this frame, pretty sure i'll need to source a 120mm spindle.

besides phil, is there another option for modern cartridge bearing BBs with ISO tapered 120mm spindle?

That BB isn't the same. The 115 has a bit more on the right and left side, when compared to the 111. The SR/NuovoRecord has much more overhang on the RH side. If ya get one of those, probably would work..the proper BB.

[wallymann]

yep, i've used the 115mm centaur on 2 bikes with a 2mm spacer under the fixed drive-side cup to get things aligned with the old cranks.

looks like a JIS taper would work, ISO cranks tend to run 3-4mm further out on JIS spindles which would make a 115mm JIS the perfect length for this application.

That BB isn't the same. The 115 has a bit more on the right and left side, when compared to the 111. The SR/NuovoRecord has much more overhang on the RH side. If ya get one of those, probably would work..the proper BB.

[oliver1850]

I don't think any Centaur is asymmetrical, so that would seem to be your problem.

According to the 1984 catalog 18, the 115.5 Italian spindle extends beyond the cup 22.5 mm on the drive side and 16 on the left.

The Racing Triple (Athena) 115.5 BB has no ledges on the cups. If you could find one of those, you could probably offset it 3 mm. As cachagua mentioned, Miche uses the same design. I'm not sure if they make one the proper length.

[ultraman6970]

We have done it thats why I suggested it... but well... looks like wally did something like that already. Hope he finds the solution, sucks when stuff doesnt work like it should.


A quick quesiton, i have not measured the tappers ok? but to me looks like the 102 axle has a beefier and thicker axle than the 115? eventhought both are iso? Again I havent measure them and I dont have a 115 moving around too. Maybe just visual effect? asking this because if indeed have differences eventhought both are iso then the axle he is trying might fit different than the original one?


Put 2mm spacer on the right hand side and you will have no threads showing on the LH side for the lockring..DOH!!

.

[ultraman6970]

The miche one can be tricked to any side you want, quite flexible if you need clearance at one side.

[wallymann]

this.

all of my other bikes thus fitted successfully have a 3mm spacer on the drive side cup! for some stupid reason I didn't start with that on this one. it's a bit sad when the memory starts to fade...

spacer on the way, I should be good-to-go!

I don't think any Centaur is asymmetrical, so that would seem to be your problem.

According to the 1984 catalog 18, the 115.5 Italian spindle extends beyond the cup 22.5 mm on the drive side and 16 on the left.

The Racing Triple (Athena) 115.5 BB has no ledges on the cups. If you could find one of those, you could probably offset it 3 mm. As cachagua mentioned, Miche uses the same design. I'm not sure if they make one the proper length.

[oldpotatoe]

We have done it thats why I suggested it... but well... looks like wally did something like that already. Hope he finds the solution, sucks when stuff doesnt work like it should.


A quick quesiton, i have not measured the tappers ok? but to me looks like the 102 axle has a beefier and thicker axle than the 115? eventhought both are iso? Again I havent measure them and I dont have a 115 moving around too. Maybe just visual effect? asking this because if indeed have differences eventhought both are iso then the axle he is trying might fit different than the original one?

Both 2 degrees along with JIS, also 2 degrees of taper..just different actual dimensions, in millimeters.

[wallymann]

2mm spacer on drive side puts small ring ~2mm from chainstay. this is good.


but that spacer causes a slight ~4mm asymmetry, with crankset being offset to the right (left crank is ~2mm and right is ~6mm gap to their respective chainstays). really need a 120mm spindle to make these cranks work perfectly, but I can live with this for the time being.

[oliver1850]

I think that's the way they were when using the period correct BB. It's a tradeoff between lower Q but asymmetrical vs. higher Q and even side to side.

You might measure to the seat tube to get a more accurate guage side to side.

[Ralph]

Agreed.....I don't think measuring to chain stays tells you anything. Measure from outside the crank arm (where pedal goes in) to center of down tube. Then you can tell if crank arms off to one side or not.

BTW.....OP said the 115 MM record BB axle not same specs as 115 Veloce/Centaur BB. That the record BB axle "stuck" out to right side more. Suggested you find the correct BB axle. Good advice.

[oliver1850]

I just measure to the side of the tube, it's easier. I use the depth guage on the dial caliper. If I want a number for the Q, I add ST diameter.