A-Rod Suspended for entire 2014 season

[MattTuck]

I wonder if baseball fans will develop the same skepticism (or maybe cynicism is the right word) regarding outstanding performances that cycling fans display.

[54ny77]

his 1 year salary is probably more than the entire professional cycling peloton.

[eddief]

enabling the 10%.

The monopoly of baseball.
The fabulously rich owners.
The monopoly of the media.
The fabulously rich players.
and you...in this case us.

[fiamme red]

He recently sold his Miami Beach house for $30 million. I think he'll somehow manage even without his salary from this year and next. :rolleyes:

I haven't watched a baseball game in years. I lost my interest long ago.

[VTCaraco]

I wonder if baseball fans will develop the same skepticism (or maybe cynicism is the right word) regarding outstanding performances that cycling fans display.

People are reluctant to believe that Chris Davis (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/29170/chris-davis) from the Orioles is playing clean. He was questioned right before the HR Derby in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZMG_RR5Pgc).
Reality is that it's in the same place as cycling. You don't know if you're watching greatness or a new drug.
Pretty sorry state of affairs.

Per A-Rod, it couldn't happen to a more fitting guy. I hope this crushes him in every way imaginable.

[54ny77]

when it 1st came out, his multi-year contract was a positively staggering sum. (and it still is, not to diminish it.) and i mean a s-t-a-g-g-e-r-i-n-g sum. something like $150mm. yeah the agent gets his cut, and uncle sammy gets his cut, but fer cryin' out loud....

at what point does the madness stop?

as a result of that and other payroll costs, a day in the new ballpark is like $300/per person for decent seats plus a beer or two and a dog.

umm, pass. :butt:

[chengher87]

I wonder if baseball fans will develop the same skepticism (or maybe cynicism is the right word) regarding outstanding performances that cycling fans display.

I hope so. The scary part is that "Biogenesis" was only one of what I think are many so called "clinics" that have no qualified individuals consulting and providing players with steroids. It's sad that Tony Bosch's associate only came forward after he wasn't paid. I'm also interested in the list of clients' names that happened to be on those documents that were "destroyed". How lucky for those whose names were on that list.

[verticaldoug]

He can appeal. He can play until his appeal is decided by an arbitrator. I'm not a fan of A-Rod , but in this case he is the underdog. So I root for his lawyers to beat the rap or at least get it reduced to 50 games.

As Chris Rock so fabulously pointed out in his stand up routine a few years ago about NBA players- the players are rich, the owners are WEALTHY.

I think the whole USADA is a joke and it should all be legalized to get rid of the hypocrisy and level the field.

[shovelhd]

enabling the 10%.

The monopoly of baseball.
The fabulously rich owners.
The monopoly of the media.
The fabulously rich players.
and you...in this case us.

You forgot the player's union who enable the madness, drugs and money both.

[carpediemracing]

As Tygert pointed out at a doping panel discussion thing baseball is not an Olympic sport. It falls under the same category as the WWE (a sport he specifically mentioned). The important part would be the serious doping tests required of an Olympic sport.

Really, then, it's okay to do whatever they want in baseball, just like in the WWE.

Cycling, because it's an Olympic sport, has to play by slightly different rules. At least on paper.

[Seramount]

the only thing that sucks more than dopers is baseball.

gad, what a dreary, uninteresting sport.

[firerescuefin]

Eddie...can you explain what you mean for each of these


enabling the 10%.

The monopoly of baseball.
The fabulously rich owners.
The monopoly of the media.
The fabulously rich players.
and you...in this case us.

Not sure what this has go do with anything Matt said.

[slueck]

People are reluctant to believe that Chris Davis (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/29170/chris-davis) from the Orioles is playing clean. He was questioned right before the HR Derby in this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZMG_RR5Pgc).
Reality is that it's in the same place as cycling. You don't know if you're watching greatness or a new drug.
Pretty sorry state of affairs.


Orioles fan here. The thing with Davis is, he hasn't been nearly this productive before this season, which does not help his case. This year, out of nowhere, his numbers have been unbelievable.

[PQJ]

Good. It's about time the baseball powers that be pretended to get serious about drugs in the league.

[ColonelJLloyd]

the only thing that sucks more than dopers is baseball.

gad, what a dreary, uninteresting sport.

To each his own. I love baseball, don't hate drugs and am happy to see the two together on occasion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vUhSYLRw14).

I don't care for liars, however. I'm hopeful the players themselves will get fed up enough with an unlevel playing field that they impose measures to considerably curb steroid use in the league (i.e. ostracizing known users, contract language, two strikes (or one) and you're out policy, etc).

[EDS]

As a Yankee fan I would love it if A-Rod never played another MLB game. Sadly, he will not be going away quietly.

[jmoore]

The older I get, the more I appreciate baseball. I enjoy the tactics and the day-to-day long term view that managers have to take. Very interesting.

I will admit that games can get tedious and overly long sometimes.


A-Rod was grossly overpaid when the Texas Rangers signed him to that ridiculous 10 yr/ $250million contract. That was a GROSS OVERPAYMENT by at least $10million a year. He was always a standoff-ish jerk when he played here. He appears to be a bigger jerks since he got to the Yankees.

[54ny77]

thanks for reminder. i typed 150 in an earlier post. that's right, it was 250.

un-friggin-believable.

sports team gaap accounting must sure be interesting profession....

The older I get, the more I appreciate baseball. I enjoy the tactics and the day-to-day long term view that managers have to take. Very interesting.

I will admit that games can get tedious and overly long sometimes.


A-Rod was grossly overpaid when the Texas Rangers signed him to that ridiculous 10 yr/ $250million contract. That was a GROSS OVERPAYMENT by at least $10million a year. He was always a standoff-ish jerk when he played here. He appears to be a bigger jerks since he got to the Yankees.

[eddief]

but my bottom line is we can choose to give a crap about it or not. It is bigger, richer, dirtier than any of us and in the end much to do about nothing. The OP question was general and so was my response.

Eddie...can you explain what you mean for each of these




Not sure what this has go do with anything Matt said.

[firerescuefin]

but my bottom line is we can choose to give a crap about it or not. It is bigger, richer, dirtier than any of us and in the end much to do about nothing.

Agreed (for real) :help:


;)

Be well.
Geoff

[Louis]

Let's face it, much of the reason for them going after A-Rod is that the Yankees regret signing him for so long for so much money. I'm surprised the Angels didn't come up with similar dirt on Albert Pujols.

[eddief]

maybe it goes like this. All the elements in the game are all being and staying millionaires for the most part. It is the fans who pay the bills and keep having the wool pulled over their eyes by buying tickets to support the avarice of the game.

Ryan Braun
Alex Rodriquez
Barry Bonds
etc ad nauseum

The list goes on of self absorbed rich aholes who don't deserve our attention, and certainly not our money.

Oh by the way...go Giants. Oh by the way, where did they go?

Agreed (for real) :help:


;)

Be well.
Geoff

[jmoore]

Let's face it, much of the reason for them going after A-Rod is that the Yankees regret signing him for so long for so much money. I'm surprised the Angels didn't come up with similar dirt on Albert Pujols.


Give them time. Pujols is going to be an anchor for a long time after his production drops. Same with Josh Hamilton, if he's not already.

But I like Pujols. He has never been the unmitigated jack-wagon that A-Rod is.

[Ray]

the only thing that sucks more than dopers is baseball.

gad, what a dreary, uninteresting sport.

I love the sport, at least the NL version - I absolutely HATE the DH. The strategy and tactics of getting through an at bat, let alone an inning, let alone a game, let alone a 162 game season are more interesting than any other sport I've ever seen. The only thing that comes close is a three week stage race, but it lacks the perfect geometry of baseball.

There are dopers in all sports. Probably always have been, probably always will be.

-Ray

[Louis]

I love the sport, at least the NL version - I absolutely HATE the DH. The strategy and tactics of getting through an at bat, let alone an inning, let alone a game, let alone a 162 game season are more interesting than any other sport I've ever seen. The only thing that comes close is a three week stage race, but it lacks the perfect geometry of baseball.

IMO there isn't much out there to compare to the pitch-by-pitch tension of close baseball game. Unbelievable.

Edit - just ask a Rangers fan about this, and see what they say.

[Seramount]

To each his own. I love baseball, don't hate drugs and am happy to see the two together on occasion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vUhSYLRw14).

I don't care for liars, however. I'm hopeful the players themselves will get fed up enough with an unlevel playing field that they impose measures to considerably curb steroid use in the league (i.e. ostracizing known users, contract language, two strikes (or one) and you're out policy, etc).

now that was some good stuff...very cool little vid.

no hate for drugs here either.

and yeah, cheaters blow...

[EDS]

Let's face it, much of the reason for them going after A-Rod is that the Yankees regret signing him for so long for so much money. I'm surprised the Angels didn't come up with similar dirt on Albert Pujols.

What? MLB is going after him, not the Yankees (though I am certain the Yankees would love to see him gone as they could potentially take his contract figure off the books for purposes of the luxury tax (mind you they would still have to pay his salary) o help speed up the rebuild).

[Louis]

What? MLB is going after him, not the Yankees

Who runs MLB? The owners.

[Tony T]

He'll appeal, and will be allowed to play. I expect that the appeal process will last until he's ready to retire ;)

[firerescuefin]

The only thing I'll add is people continue to fall all over themselves to go to the games and subscribe to the cable sports packages. They continue to vote in the affirmative with their dollars.



maybe it goes like this. All the elements in the game are all being and staying millionaires for the most part. It is the fans who pay the bills and keep having the wool pulled over their eyes by buying tickets to support the avarice of the game.

Ryan Braun
Alex Rodriquez
Barry Bonds
etc ad nauseum

The list goes on of self absorbed rich aholes who don't deserve our attention, and certainly not our money.

Oh by the way...go Giants. Oh by the way, where did they go?

[Tony T]

The only thing I'll add is people continue to fall all over themselves to go to the games and subscribe to the cable sports packages. They continue to vote in the affirmative with their dollars.

When the fans came back after the '94 strike, the owners knew that nothing would stop the fans from going to the game.
(...not even a $5 bottle of water :))

[EDS]

Who runs MLB? The owners.

As has been well documented, it is in the other teams best interest that A-Rod's contract remain on the Yankees books so as to limit their roster flexibility given their "constraints" for 2014.

[Louis]

As has been well documented, it is in the other teams best interest that A-Rod's contract remain on the Yankees books so as to limit their roster flexibility given their "constraints" for 2014.

I think they (the owners) get along better than you think.

[oldpotatoe]

He can appeal. He can play until his appeal is decided by an arbitrator. I'm not a fan of A-Rod , but in this case he is the underdog. So I root for his lawyers to beat the rap or at least get it reduced to 50 games.

As Chris Rock so fabulously pointed out in his stand up routine a few years ago about NBA players- the players are rich, the owners are WEALTHY.

I think the whole USADA is a joke and it should all be legalized to get rid of the hypocrisy and level the field.

Absolutely, PROTECT the cheaters...I root for baseball..give a-rod a lifetime and for any others, cancel their contract..hit them in the wallet.

You think lance is an 'underdog'..everybody picking on him?

[cfox]

The Seattle Seahawks have had 5 players suspended for PEDs since 2011. Oh, when I say suspended, I mean a two game "time out." No one talks about this because the NFL, in its usual mastery, has created a silly, nominal testing and punishment system for PEDs. It doesn't treat PEDs as a big deal, so no one else does either.

The only sports that get labeled "drug addled" are the ones that actually try to catch and punish cheaters. Baseball is finding that out now. I was listening to a sports show two weeks ago and the hosts were talking ad nauseum about the (non-analytical) Biogenesis story, but an actual failed drug test in the NFL was only mentioned in passing during an hourly update. The hosts never mentioned the NFL story even though the sole subject of their show was drugs in sports.

[#campyuserftw]

The Seattle Seahawks have had 5 players suspended for PEDs since 2011.

Seattle seems, like many smaller city teams, to fly under the radar. Coach Carroll left USC in tatters, jumped north to the Puget Sound:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/15/pete-carroll-denies-he-took-seahawks-job-to-flee-usc-sanctions/

Lest we forget the latest Medical Miracle, Adrian Peterson. He's juicing on God, he says:

http://www.sportsworldreport.com/articles/17357/20130627/nfl-rumors-adrian-peterson-claims-detroit-lions-accused-steroid-use.htm

cliffnotes: I suspect the winner of DWTS to be on something nowadays.

[bironi]

As Tygert pointed out at a doping panel discussion thing baseball is not an Olympic sport. It falls under the same category as the WWE (a sport he specifically mentioned). The important part would be the serious doping tests required of an Olympic sport.

Really, then, it's okay to do whatever they want in baseball, just like in the WWE.

Cycling, because it's an Olympic sport, has to play by slightly different rules. At least on paper.

Thanks for that insight. I don't think the public at large is aware of that distinction between the sports.

[rwsaunders]

Alex Rodriguez, Yankees third baseman, 211 games
Nelson Cruz, Rangers outfielder, 50 games
Jhonny Peralta, Tigers shortstop, 50 games
Everth Cabrera, Padres shortstop, 50 games
Antonio Bastardo, Phillies reliever, 50 games
Jordany Valdespin, Mets outfielder, 50 games
Francisco Cervelli, Yankees catcher, 50 games
Jesus Montero, Mariners catcher, 50 games
Cesar Puello, Mets outfielder (minors), 50 games
Sergio Escalona, Astros pitcher (minors), 50 games
Fernando Martinez, Yankees outfielder (minors), 50 games
Fautino De Los Santos, Padres pitcher, 50 games
Jordan Norberto, free-agent pitcher, 50 games

Are there any players left in NYC? I was also reading that ARod and Tiger Woods both were treated by the same Canadian "healing" doctor. I give up.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=6743448

[wc1934]

Biggest cheat and scumbag is Bonds (his name is still in the record books) and he is still revered in San Francisco.

Read that ARod can play until his appeal is heard-
He will be playing 3rd, batting 4th and pleading the 5th.

[merckx]

The commencement of football season is right around the corner. It will be a refreshing change to be entertained by clean, upstanding, gentlemen.

[merckx]

PS, all professional sport is grim, we know this. Don't enable it by watching it, and don't drink Budweiser. As an alternative, ride your bicycle. You are the sport of cycling.

[Louis]

The commencement of football season is right around the corner. It will be a refreshing change to be entertained by clean, upstanding, gentlemen.

Yeah, what he said.

I look forward to being entertained by guys like Johnny Manziel, aka "JFF" (as in "JFFMOM" and "JFFDAD" as desired by the parents for their license plates) and will be sorely disappointed if he's disqualified by the NCAA for signing a few hundred photos for $xx,xxx

[Len J]

The arbitrary nature of a-rods suspension will come back to haunt MLB.

212 games is what the rest of this session and all of next works out to......if they announced it last week, would it have been 218? Lol. The agreement with the union on drug offenses specifies 50 game (first offense) 100 game (second offense) & lifetime bans. Not sure how MLB will support the 212.

It's a first offense since the agreed upon drug policy went in place in 2005. His admission goes back before that (intentionally).

The arbitration will probably be heard in September with a decision on November. Any game he plays after Thursday will get added onto the end of whatever suspension the arbitrator decides.

The pay he will get for the remaining games of the reg season is approx. $9 million.

Lots of cards to play here.

Len

[EDS]

As Tygert pointed out at a doping panel discussion thing baseball is not an Olympic sport. It falls under the same category as the WWE (a sport he specifically mentioned). The important part would be the serious doping tests required of an Olympic sport.

Really, then, it's okay to do whatever they want in baseball, just like in the WWE.

Cycling, because it's an Olympic sport, has to play by slightly different rules. At least on paper.

Baseball is an Olympic sport. At least it was.

[EDS]

I think they (the owners) get along better than you think.

I guarantee you John Henry would do anything in his power to avoid giving the Yankees a lever to retool quickly without the luxury tax escalator.

[christian]

It's not a USADA signatory. That's part of the reason this Biogenesis nonsense was such a farce, with the attempted purchase of documents by both players and MLB -- MLB doesn't have subpoena powers like USADA does. Of course, one could question why MLB doesn't just become a USADA signatory...

[firerescuefin]

He violated more than the drug policy...he went behind the back of the investigators and attempted to bribe and coerce witnesses.....that's where the meat of suspension is...and why they wanted to add it to the drug portion and make it a lifetime ban.


The arbitrary nature of a-rods suspension will come back to haunt MLB.

212 games is what the rest of this session and all of next works out to......if they announced it last week, would it have been 218? Lol. The agreement with the union on drug offenses specifies 50 game (first offense) 100 game (second offense) & lifetime bans. Not sure how MLB will support the 212.

It's a first offense since the agreed upon drug policy went in place in 2005. His admission goes back before that (intentionally).

The arbitration will probably be heard in September with a decision on November. Any game he plays after Thursday will get added onto the end of whatever suspension the arbitrator decides.

The pay he will get for the remaining games of the reg season is approx. $9 million.

Lots of cards to play here.

Len

[MattTuck]

He violated more than the drug policy...he went behind the back of the investigators and attempted to bribe and coerce witnesses.....that's where the meat of suspension is...and why they wanted to add it to the drug portion and make it a lifetime ban.

It isn't the doping that bothers me, it's that he's a bully and tried to intimidate witnesses.... oh wait, I'm talking about Lance :eek::rolleyes: LOL

[pbarry]

Maybe we'll see AR at Ragbrai next year?

[Len J]

He violated more than the drug policy...he went behind the back of the investigators and attempted to bribe and coerce witnesses.....that's where the meat of suspension is...and why they wanted to add it to the drug portion and make it a lifetime ban.

I get that, problem is there doesn't appear to be anything in the collective bargaining agreement that addresses penalties for this.

Len

[Louis]

Maybe we'll see AR at Ragbrai next year?

I'm sure he could make a great cyclist, juiced or not.

[firerescuefin]

"best interest of baseball" clause...very broad powers.


I get that, problem is there doesn't appear to be anything in the collective bargaining agreement that addresses penalties for this.

Len

[Len J]

"best interest of baseball" clause...very broad powers.

Problem is MLB apparently did not invoke that clause when applying the penalties. They specifically referred to the PED clause in their notification. Apparently they didn't want a battle w the union and invoking that would have precluded arbitration, which then would have ended up in court.

It will be interesting to watch. If he did half what has been leaked he should never play again. Unfortunately, as w most things baseball, the union agreement rules even over logic.

My bet is he ends up w 100 games.

Len

[firerescuefin]

I understand that....but you can believe that it was mentioned and was taken into consideration when negotiating and running it past the player's union. From the reports I have heard the last couple of days they (the union) were willing to buy off on a through 2014 suspension (with the majority of their members wanting the Union to work in conjunction with MLB on giving meat to this suspension in particular)....but apparently the union told Selig that they would fight him tooth and nail if he went for the lifetime ban based on the aforementioned clause.

Problem is MLB apparently did not invoke that clause when applying the penalties. They specifically referred to the PED clause in their notification. Apparently they didn't want a battle w the union and invoking that would have precluded arbitration, which then would have ended up in court.

It will be interesting to watch. If he did half what has been leaked he should never play again. Unfortunately, as w most things baseball, the union agreement rules even over logic.

My bet is he ends up w 100 games.

Len

[Louis]

Problem is MLB apparently did not invoke that clause when applying the penalties. They specifically referred to the PED clause in their notification. Apparently they didn't want a battle w the union and invoking that would have precluded arbitration, which then would have ended up in court.

This morning on ESPN they said that they believed that MLB and the union "negotiated" the clause to be invoked.

Maybe I'm a sucker, but I think most baseball players are clean and want a clean sport. The union is therefore willing to work with MLB to try to clean things up. Notice they aren't kicking and screaming about all this. I think that behind the scenes they've been talking to try to get this done. A-Rod is the one who's been fighting it most energetically, which is understandable, given that $-wise he's the one with the most to loose.

[harryblack]

This morning on ESPN they said that they believed that MLB and the union "negotiated" the clause to be invoked.

Maybe I'm a sucker, but I think most baseball players are clean and want a clean sport.

Louis, with all due respect... you're a sucker. If you think most baseball players under the age of... 14? are clean, you might be getting warm. Division I college and ambitious minor leagues on up, forget it! And there's zero reason to believe otherwise.

[Ray]

Biggest cheat and scumbag is Bonds (his name is still in the record books) and he is still revered in San Francisco.

How is Bonds any worse than McGwire, Sosa, Braun, Clemons, etc, etc, etc? Were their records erased? nope, they all get the same figurative asterisk next to their names in the books. He was less apologetic about it than some and he was never a particularly cuddly guy (like Clemons WAS?), but that doesn't change the underlying offense.

Hell, Carlos Ruiz, beloved in Philadelphia (not that many players of any sport are beloved in Philly) got popped last year for taking the ADD drug Adderal, which I guess is a stimulant. He was having a career year on the stuff. This year he can't hit his weight - he can barely hit MY weight. Athletes with a lot of money on the line do what they think they can get away with to improve their game. We love them until they get caught and then we usually either keep loving them or start hating them depending on how much they're making and/or who they're dating.

Same as it ever was, same as it ever was.

-Ray

[Tony T]

This is not cycling. There's a players union involved.
IMO, A-Rod's suspension will be reduced to 75 games.

[ColonelJLloyd]

.... I think most baseball players are clean and want a clean sport. The union is therefore willing to work with MLB to try to clean things up. Notice they aren't kicking and screaming about all this. I think that behind the scenes they've been talking to try to get this done.

I also feel this way. I think the vast majority of players want steroids out.

[tuxbailey]

When the fans came back after the '94 strike, the owners knew that nothing would stop the fans from going to the game.
(...not even a $5 bottle of water :))

That was me. Used to be an Orioles fan and I could watch a scoreless games for 15 innings. Loving going to the games even if I could only afford the nosebleed sections. I was done after the strike and not even Cal Ripken's streak could make me a fan again. Although I did watch that game, a touching moment because I was a fan of him.

[rwsaunders]

It's Mrs. RW's birthday today and she asked that we go to the Pirate game tonight with the kids in lieu of dinner. It's the least that I can do for her after 29 years and three kids...

[ColonelJLloyd]

What a woman. Have fun and enjoy this new feeling of winning. ;)

Your Bucs killed my Pirates the first four of those five last week. For shame.

[54ny77]

A-Rod should buy Serotta. Simplify the product line w/4 bikes that have stock geo's: the Single, the Double, the Triple, and the Home Run.

I suppose there could be an off-the-menu frame, the Grand Slamici, as well.

;)

[firerescuefin]

A-Rod should buy Serotta. Simplify the product line w/4 bikes that have stock geo's: the Single, the Double, the Triple, and the Home Run.

I suppose there could be an off-the-menu frame, the Grand Slamici, as well.

;)

Surprised you didn't go with the PED (performance enhancing drive) version with a motor in the seat tube...if there was ever an Arod signature model.:cool:

[BumbleBeeDave]

A-Rod should buy Serotta. Simplify the product line w/4 bikes that have stock geo's: the Single, the Double, the Triple, and the Home Run.

I suppose there could be an off-the-menu frame, the Grand Slamici, as well.

;)

POTD! :banana:

BBD

[FlashUNC]

MLB is shooting themselves in the foot on this IMO.

If they're going under the Drug Agreement, ARod should get 50 games. He's never tested positive and the agreement doesn't allow for the kind of arbitrary penalty they're applying.

Never mind that there are plenty of guys who have done far worse in baseball and gotten off a lot easier.

It's clearly a vendetta from an idiot commissioner who's done a pretty thorough job bungling all of this drug stuff.

[firerescuefin]

MLB is shooting themselves in the foot on this IMO.

If they're going under the Drug Agreement, ARod should get 50 games. He's never tested positive and the agreement doesn't allow for the kind of arbitrary penalty they're applying.

Never mind that there are plenty of guys who have done far worse in baseball and gotten off a lot easier.

It's clearly a vendetta from an idiot commissioner who's done a pretty thorough job bungling all of this drug stuff.

The union is in on the terms of the suspension...see my and Louis's posts above...agree with with your Selig comments, but there are quite a few moving parts here.

[FlashUNC]

Yeah, but the union is also falling down on its job.

They have to represent all players interests, not just the likable ones.

Why does ARod get 211 games for never failing a test, but Manny never gets close to that for failing two?

Or, yanno, real gems like guys committing real crimes -- Elijah Dukes assaulting a man while screaming anti-Semitic slurs comes to mind.

Baseball has done a great job of making union leadership a glorified lap dog by splitting the players on the PEDs issue, and this desire to have harmony above, yanno, doing their job.

[firerescuefin]

The union is taking its lead from its constituents (which I agree with) and most of them wanted harsher punishment for Braun...Manny has served over 150 games/ retired for awhile to try to circumvent the 100 game one.



Yeah, but the union is also falling down on its job.

They have to represent all players interests, not just the likable ones.

Why does ARod get 211 games for never failing a test, but Manny never gets close to that for failing two?

Or, yanno, real gems like guys committing real crimes -- Elijah Dukes assaulting a man while screaming anti-Semitic slurs comes to mind.

Baseball has done a great job of making union leadership a glorified lap dog by splitting the players on the PEDs issue, and this desire to have harmony above, yanno, doing their job.

[Climb01742]

PED users, A-Rod in particular, hiding behind due process and the 'rules' that are in place is ironic, no? since he, and they, spent years circumventing every rule and due process. sorry, boys. you spat on the rules. don't dry them off and try to use 'em for cover.

[FlashUNC]

The union is taking its lead from its constituents (which I agree with) and most of them wanted harsher punishment for Braun...Manny has served over 150 games/ retired for awhile to try to circumvent the 100 game one.

Yeah, but 150 ain't 211. And again, thats for multiple failed drug tests, not one nonanalytic positive. Which the MLB hasn't released any of its "overwhelming" evidenced for all the world to see. Never mind that Ron Arrest -- who ran into the seats to start an arena-wide brawl with fans -- got a shorter suspension from the MLB. The punishment doesn't fit the crime.

Why collectively bargain an agreement just to throw it out the window and let the league impose whatever punishment they want?

I'm no ARod fan, but this kind of approach significantly weakens the union, and for the league this may not hold up under appeal.

Typical Selig. Day late and a dollar short on everything. There's a reason I stopped watching.

[firerescuefin]

Last comment on this (for me)....his sins were greater than taking the stuff...he interfered with the investigation. He's lucky he's not gone for life...which I believe would have been inthe best interest of baseball....but I see why the Union would resist that move. The next frontier(s) is better testing and verbiage written in to contracts that nullify them when your caught taking.


Yeah, but 150 ain't 211. And again, thats for multiple failed drug tests, not one nonanalytic positive. Which the MLB hasn't released any of its "overwhelming" evidenced for all the world to see. Never mind that Ron Arrest -- who ran into the seats to start an arena-wide brawl with fans -- got a shorter suspension from the MLB. The punishment doesn't fit the crime.

Why collectively bargain an agreement just to throw it out the window and let the league impose whatever punishment they want?

I'm no ARod fan, but this kind of approach significantly weakens the union, and for the league this may not hold up under appeal.

Typical Selig. Day late and a dollar short on everything. There's a reason I stopped watching.

[FlashUNC]

He's 39. The suspension is essentially a ban for life.

But this has turned the conversation away from the notion that none of these guys tested positive and the hard questions this investigation brings up. Does MLB's testing suck? If the clinic's employee had gotten $4k or so in payments, MLB might never have heard about this. Why do their investigation into this stuff, well, also suck?

[harryblack]

I also feel this way. I think the vast majority of players want steroids out.

Colonel, why do "feel" otherwise? And if you feel steroids alone are the problem, it's just that type of warm-hearted unknowing the doping cabal plays upon.

Mind you, I'm not making any "judgements"-- selectively outraged anti-Lance puritans and excessive Barry Bonds haters (though we all know what that's about, stated or otherwise) both disturb me-- but if you care for sport generally, baseball specifically and your own hard earned integrity, it's long long long past the time of naivete.

You think ALL the physiognomic changes in top level pro athletes-- not just baseball-- is due to "advances in diet and training"?

there's zero point zero chance of that being true.

start here and follow the trails as far back and sideways as you wish--

http://www.forbes.com/sites/bobcook/2013/07/26/baseball-doping-scandal-clinic-also-sold-to-high-school-athletes-reports-say/


Mstr Sgt Harry Black
RA 15042699

[ColonelJLloyd]

Colonel, why do "feel" otherwise? And if you feel steroids alone are the problem, it's just that type of warm-hearted unknowing the doping cabal plays upon.


I just feel that a majority of baseball players want a more level playing field and have respect for the game and its history and the last 15-20 years have left a bad taste in their mouth. No studies or empirical evidence, but it's what I'd like to believe. I'd like to think I'm not naive and that, despite what you'll find watching or reading the news, the majority of humanity is still good and just. I don't subscribe to the "ignorance is bliss" guide to life, but neither am I a conspiracy theorist. I've no illusions of drug-free sport, but I think the players' union doing something is good.

And just so you don't give respect where it isn't warranted, I've never served in the military. People have just called me Colonel for a long time now. :)

[ultraman6970]

+1 ... it is just insane how much money they get.

Do you guys imagine football and baseball w/o doping, steroids or any other type of drug?? I bet nobody would do those incredible things they do and the game would turn good enough to have normal people able to get pro w/o any problem.


his 1 year salary is probably more than the entire professional cycling peloton.

[BumbleBeeDave]

He's going to pursue appeals as far as he can while still playing--and earning millions. Then retire and still have his millions--much of which apparently was earned while cheating by taking PED's.

So crime DOES pay . . . great example for the kids. Did all this same stuff really go on in the age of DiMaggio, Ruth, and Ted Williams and we just didn't hear about it? Or have things really gone downhill so much?

I used to love baseball when I was a kid. In 1969 when the Cubs and the Mets were fighting it out I ran home from school every day to see the last part of the game. Infield was Santo, Kessinger, Beckert, and Ernie Banks. Ernie flicking those wrists and knocking another one over the ivy covered wall. "Mr. Cub" who I just cannot conceive of ever taking PED's and who was the very image of role model for us kids. A day off from school to go see the Cubs at Wrigley Field was an excused absence!

I loved the game because these guys looked like me. They weren't 7 feet tall like NBA players,. They weren't huge mountain of flesh like football players. Pro baseball players were what I could realistically imagine I would look like when I grew up, and so in my 10-year-old mind I could legitimately tell myself that someday, somewhere, I might possibly end up playing in the major leagues.

Today I turn on any baseball game on TV and they ALL look 'roided up. Look at the sports section and the stories are just as likely to be about the latest player's arrest for drugs, underage sex, you name it . . .

Pretty sad.

BBD

[rwsaunders]

A walk off homer in the bottom of the ninth helps you to remember some of what you like about the game...

[Tony T]

--much of which apparently was earned while cheating by taking PED's.

I'm shocked, shocked to find that cheating is going on in here!
Cheating in Baseball goes as far back at least to 1919. And lets not forget 1951 when the Giants stole the WS.

And as far as PED's, Baseball encouraged this for a very long time. They needed HR's to get fans back after `94

So crime DOES pay . . . great example for the kids. Did all this same stuff really go on in the age of DiMaggio, Ruth, and Ted Williams and we just didn't hear about it? Or have things really gone downhill so much?

No, in those years Baseball had indentured servitude. The players in those years had to work in the off-season to pay the rent.
The problem has always been the owners, allowed in part by the anti-trust exemption
PED's are in ALL sports (except maybe bowling and darts)

BTW, Ted Williams was a racist prick and Ruth was an alcoholic (as was as Mantle and many others) -- Yeah, great example for the kids.....

.

[93legendti]

Not all ball players were pricks:

"Hank Greenberg was a five-time All-Star, was twice named the American League's Most Valuable Player, and was elected to the Hall of Fame in 1956. He became the first major league player to hit 25 or more home runs in a season in each league, and remains the American League (AL) record-holder for most RBIs in a single season by a right-handed batter (183 in 1937, a 154-game schedule).
He was one of the few opposing players to publicly welcome Jackie Robinson to the major leagues.[1]

Drafted in 1940, the first American League player to be drafted, his salary was cut from $55,000 ($901,000 today) a year to $21 ($300 today) a month. Greenberg was not bitter, however, stating, "I made up my mind to go when I was called. My country comes first." After most of the 1941 season, however, he was honorably discharged when the United States Congress released men aged 28 years and older from service, being released on December 5, 1941, two days before Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. Greenberg re-enlisted and volunteered for service in the United States Army Air Forces, again the first major league player to do so. He graduated from Officer Candidate School and was commissioned as a first lieutenant in the USAAF. He eventually served overseas in the China-Burma-India Theater, scouting locations for B-29 bomber bases. Promoted to captain, Greenberg served 45 months, the longest of any major league player."

[Bradford]

BTW, Ted Williams was a racist prick

.

That is not correct. Ted Williams shocked the baseball world during his hall of fame acceptance speech by including a plea for Negro league players to be included in the hall of fame. In that short speech 562 words he took the time to stand up for black ball players when he said "I hope that one day Satchel Paige and Josh Gibson will be voted into the Hall of Fame as symbols of the great Negro players who are not here only because they weren't given the chance."

He was the first prominent player to do so and his actions started the the process that eventually brought Hall of Fame recognition to the players of the negro leagues who were kept out of baseball because of the racism of the rest of the country. It is hard to call that man a racist prick.

By the way, he also served as an active fighter pilot in not one, but two wars. He was a difficult and unpleasant man in many ways, but also a great man in many ways.

Perhaps you are thinking about Ty Cobb, who was a racist prick.

[Tony T]

Perhaps you are thinking about Ty Cobb, who was a racist prick.

Yes, I was thinking of Cobb. Thanks for the info, and my apologies to Ted Williams.

[azrider]

60 minutes tonight had story about Tony Bosch testifying agaisn't A-Rod and all allegations yada yada.....but i thought Scott Pelley's statement at the end was the most interesting.

In his closing argument Pelley said "Selig will retire after this year, after initiating the most aggressive and toughest anti-doping/drug campaign in all of professional sports"

:rolleyes:

[Rada]

Selig is a big pile of steaming dung.

[harlond]

.

So crime DOES pay . . . great example for the kids. Did all this same stuff really go on in the age of DiMaggio, Ruth, and Ted Williams and we just didn't hear about it? Or have things really gone downhill so much?

BBDRuth corked his bat. The winner of the second Tour de France was disqualified for cheating. There is no golden age when professional athletes would not bend or break the rules to win. Human nature is what it is.

[jr59]

Ruth corked his bat. The winner of the second Tour de France was disqualified for cheating. There is no golden age when professional athletes would not bend or break the rules to win. Human nature is what it is.


correct. I wish people would remind themselves of this more often

[oldpotatoe]

Ruth corked his bat. The winner of the second Tour de France was disqualified for cheating. There is no golden age when professional athletes would not bend or break the rules to win. Human nature is what it is.

Yup, infuse a lot of $, and 'if ya aren't cheatin', you aren't tryin'"

[azrider]

Harder to hit the ball when you don't got the juice huh A-Rod? That must suck going 0 for 6 for the first time in 2,588 games. Sigh.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/30/sports/baseball/alex-rodriguez-0-for-6-its-that-kind-of-day.html?_r=0

[OtayBW]

I don't care if he reaches 660 HRs. He'll never be Willie Mays to me....

[juanj]

I don't want to see Rodriguez overtake Mays, but it's going to happen. It's hard to hit a baseball, period. A-Rod has 5 home runs this year--as many as Cabrera, Abreu, Davis, and several other great hitters who also have 5. An 0 for 6 outing just before just an important landmark is not surprising.

Harder to hit the ball when you don't got the juice huh A-Rod? That must suck going 0 for 6 for the first time in 2,588 games. Sigh.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/30/sports/baseball/alex-rodriguez-0-for-6-its-that-kind-of-day.html?_r=0

[saab2000]

Harder to hit the ball when you don't got the juice huh A-Rod? That must suck going 0 for 6 for the first time in 2,588 games. Sigh.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/30/sports/baseball/alex-rodriguez-0-for-6-its-that-kind-of-day.html?_r=0

Juice doesn't help you hit the ball. It helps you hit the ball harder if you can hit it at all.

[azrider]

I don't want to see Rodriguez overtake Mays, but it's going to happen. It's hard to hit a baseball, period. A-Rod has 5 home runs this year--as many as Cabrera, Abreu, Davis, and several other great hitters who also have 5. An 0 for 6 outing just before just an important landmark is not surprising.

I was just being smarmy. I think the guy is a worthless turd and to be honest it still boggles my mind that after the whole charade, lies, admitted use of PED's, etc that he is still able to play the game.
What is even more ridiculous is all this BS about MLB being so "tough" on PED's. It's a joke. The game, commissioner, owners......all laughable.

I used to be a HUGE fan of baseball. Huge. But now I have zero interest, it's almost sad in a way. And this coming from a St. Louis/Cardinal guy :rolleyes::)

[oldpotatoe]

I don't care if he reaches 660 HRs. He'll never be Willie Mays to me....

Convicted doper yet none of his home runs removed, ala LA. He, along with SHs like Bonds, McGuire, Sosa...I'll bet Pete Rose is on the ballot either this year or next...sports writers won't vote him in but....

BTW-what A-Rod juiced didn't help him see and hit the ball, just hit it farther. He does have great vision and coordination, even w/o dopage.

But even so, it's a nice summer afternoon at Coors field, drinking something other than Coors. Why it's called 'Americas pastime'....

[azrider]

Juice doesn't help you hit the ball. It helps you hit the ball harder if you can hit it at all.

Ummm........ok.

Here, Pelley and 60 Minutes point out that on one date that corresponds with text messages, Rodriguez took these at least one of these gummies. The date was April 6, 2012. Opening Day. Pelley says that Rodriguez had a “great game.” He went two-for-three with two walks, two runs scored and hit a “412-foot double.” The stuff works! “

The combination,” Bosch said, “makes playing playing the game of baseball a lot easier. Even Alex would contest to that!!”

[OtayBW]

Convicted doper yet none of his home runs removed, ala LA. He, along with SHs like Bonds, McGuire, Sosa...I'll bet Pete Rose is on the ballot either this year or next...sports writers won't vote him in but....

BTW-what A-Rod juiced didn't help him see and hit the ball, just hit it farther. He does have great vision and coordination, even w/o dopage.

But even so, it's a nice summer afternoon at Coors field, drinking something other than Coors. Why it's called 'Americas pastime'....
I love base-a-ball. Grew up with Willie Mays and have been a die-hard Giants fan no matter what.

Good point about eye-hand coordination and natural talent.

[pdmtong]

I love base-a-ball. Grew up with Willie Mays and have been a die-hard Giants fan no matter what.

There is a reason that the statue in front of ATT Park is of Willie. The greatest living ball player to me as well.

He and McCovey live around here still. Mac up in the hills where all the VCs live, except he bought in 50 years ago. Mays lives in the flats, only a mile or so from me (but quite a few $M given his zip code and todays rates). Same place he has always had. On Halloween he passes out baseballs, not candy. He used to come to the door himself but understandably no longer.

[OtayBW]

There is a reason that the statue in front of ATT Park is of Willie. The greatest living ball player to me as well.

He and McCovey live around here still. Mac up in the hills where all the VCs live, except he bought in 50 years ago. Mays lives in the flats, only a mile or so from me (but quite a few $M given his zip code and todays rates). Same place he has always had. On Halloween he passes out baseballs, not candy. He used to come to the door himself but understandably no longer.
Agh! That's great! Think I read every book ever written about him when I was a kid. That's real cool.

[unterhausen]

Juice doesn't help you hit the ball. It helps you hit the ball harder if you can hit it at all.

it makes a big difference once you hit the ball. I assume ARod is still connecting with the ball, it's just not going anywhere

[93legendti]

Juice doesn't help you hit the ball. It helps you hit the ball harder if you can hit it at all.

Ex. 1-Rob Deer:

"Deer ... shares the dubious honor of having the lowest official batting average while still qualifying for the batting title when he batted .179 in 1991 (Dan Uggla also hit .179 in 2013). He is the only player since 1910 to have a batting average less than .220 in at least 400 at-bats in at least four seasons.

Deer held the American League record for strikeouts in a season (186 strikeouts in 1987) until being passed by Jack Cust in 2008, and had at least 140 strikeouts on seven occasions. Deer averaged a strikeout every 2.75 at-bats.

Deer has also gained some notoriety among studiers of baseball statistics due to his propensity for the Three True Outcomes (defined as a strikeout, home run, or bases on balls.) Because of his ability to hit home runs and take walks and better-than-average fielding ability, he remained a moderately valuable player despite his complete inability to hit for average, as evidenced by his career 13.7 Wins Above Replacement."

[93legendti]

it makes a big difference once you hit the ball. I assume ARod is still connecting with the ball, it's just not going anywhere

It's going just fine. 5 hr and 13 rbi. I expect he will end up with at least 25-30 hr and 80-90rbi...
Pretty good for a guy who will be almost 40 yr old in July.

Players his age who miss a whole year of baseball usually don't come back to win the triple crown.

I don't ever root for the Yankees or their players, but silliness is silliness.

VMart is hitting .213. Jose Iglesias is hitting .380. Neither trend will continue. It's early.

[FL_MarkD]

I am not an A-Rod fan, but when he plays here in St. Pete against my team (the Rays) I don't boo him. If I took time to boo every player on PEDs then I wouldn't have any energy left to cheer. :D To think he is the only one is a to be like the many that believed Lance was clean.